The Official American Election 2008 Thread

[Kyogre35]

Her health care plan wasn't free. It was just set to you would pay at a price you could afford. The rich would pay double more than the poor. It balances out in a way.


And I honestly feel Obama took a swipe at the Clintons. He released his text message at 3 AM. Anyone remember Clinton's 3 AM ad? Humph.

Another way I dissagree with you and Biglutz.....sorry I have to say this...but that is Communism....think about it.

You tax the rich to give to the poor....so the average Income for the Rich..goes down...for the poor goes up...equal...COMMUNISM!! It's black and White. (that was not meant to be racist)

first I would like to say that you people obviously can't take a joke... I kind of figured that the absurd explanation I attached would've been a dead giveaway, but whatevs, you're all stiffs.

*twitches* ......let me see your first post in this thread....you say Republicans are racist and sexist and you give a radical explanation....I THOUGHT YOU MEANT IT.

So no more jokes...please..if you want you can...

To be fair though, Republican ideas are typically the same as Hitler's.



That was also a joke. But both are rooted in truth. In reality the current Republican party is conservative in every respect. There is simply no denying it. In fact, I would go so far as to call most Republicans reactionaries, in that they are actively trying to bring America backwards. Oil, Reagan, regard of wealthy educated people as bad, these are all things that are pushing America into earlier times. I'm not saying that Democrats don't try this sometimes too... I have issues with some of the ways they're trying to deal with organic foods... but it is significantly more frequent on the Republican side of things. I personally am a radical progressive, so I think that is bad.

.........no no no.

Oh and....what happend when Reagan was in office?? GROWTH AND PROSPERITY!!! So it's not that bad to go back to your PRINCIPLES!! AND BE NON-PARTISIN!!

Still, about Biden... honestly, the nation is basically split at this point. There are the people who hate Bush a lot (those are voting for Obama) and the people who range from only hating him a little to being mildly displeased with him (those who are voting for McCain). I'm seeing very little that these candidates can do right now that is gonna sway the polls very much. I mean, if one of them were to get Jesus to be their VP or something, that might make a difference, but it seems to me that the voters are pretty much set on what they want. Undecideds don't count because if they haven't decided by this point they're either not voting or picking the one with the coolest name... probably Obama...

[/QUOTE]

First off I don't midly hate Bush...I don't Disspise him either. HE made mistakes...like Jimmy Carter...

........so America is decieded but the undecideds don't count....YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF.....sorry but that makes no sense.

And I hope McCain picks Mitt Romney...What do you guys think will be McCain's VP?

 

[BigLutz]

first I would like to say that you people obviously can't take a joke... I kind of figured that the absurd explanation I attached would've been a dead giveaway, but whatevs, you're all stiffs.

Umm no, trying to pass that off as poor humor just doesn't work. If it was a joke it was in horrible taste.

To be fair though, Republican ideas are typically the same as Hitler's.

You do realize Hitler was a socialist right? Or did that completely skip your mind. I mean my God the Nazi party was named: National Socialist German Workers' Party

In fact, I would go so far as to call most Republicans reactionaries, in that they are actively trying to bring America backwards.

Ugh more partisan stupidity.

Oil, Reagan, regard of wealthy educated people as bad, these are all things that are pushing America into earlier times.

Except Reagan pushed this country forward, especially after Jimmy Carter pushed us toward a depression. As for oil, we are going to be dependent on oil for the next 20 years, why not depend on American oil? Or is getting off Saudi Oil pushing America backwards?

As for wealthy educated people, no one has a problem with that, we do have a problem with wealthy educated people acting snobbish and thinking they are better than others. Other than that having a disdane for snobs isn't pushing this country backwards.

but it is significantly more frequent on the Republican side of things. I personally am a radical progressive, so I think that is bad.

No it isn't, and seriously, it shows some real Political Bigotry if you think so. And seriously, do not say you are progressive as if your ideas would push America forward. Progressive is just a nicer way to say Liberal. And many Liberal ideas could be accused of pushing this country backwards as well.

Undecideds don't count because if they haven't decided by this point they're either not voting or picking the one with the coolest name... probably Obama...

Yeah becuase a name that rhymes with one of America's biggest enemies is so "cool"...

 

[Carlisle]

Another way I dissagree with you and Biglutz.....sorry I have to say this...but that is Communism....think about it.

You tax the rich to give to the poor....so the average Income for the Rich..goes down...for the poor goes up...equal...COMMUNISM!! It's black and White. (that was not meant to be racist)

That's too bad; I support Communism. And it's not FREE health care. Everyone is paying for it, which is what matters - EVERYONE has health care. How do you expect the poor to get health care?

And I hope McCain picks Mitt Romney...What do you guys think will be McCain's VP?

The most likely choice is Romney. I'm hoping it could be Bobby Jindal, though.

 

[Kyogre35]

That's too bad; I support Communism. And it's not FREE health care. Everyone is paying for it, which is what matters - EVERYONE has health care. How do you expect the poor to get health care?

The most likely choice is Romney. I'm hoping it could be Bobby Jindal, though.

.....you support.....WHAT??? Communism in theaory is good...but has proven time and time again that it doesn't work...

For the poor there are organizations that give them a roof and food and medacine until they get back on there feet...atleast in my city they're.

Bobby Jindal is good to...but McCain also needs some key states...seeing Obama's VP doesn't give him any extra states then McCain should be dancing today.

 

[Carlisle]

.....you support.....WHAT??? Communism in theory is good...but has proven time and time again that it doesn't work...

I agree, I guess. Capitalism isn't perfect, either; they're both filled with corruption.

For the poor there are organizations that give them a roof and food and medicine until they get back on there feet...atleast in my city they're.

And what if you land in the emergency room? And have to be hospitalized for three months? That's how everything is so corrupt and in debt.

Bobby Jindal is good to...but McCain also needs some key states...seeing Obama's VP doesn't give him any extra states then McCain should be dancing today.

Romney will probably help him get Ohio and possibly Romney. McCain will start beating Obama easily in the polls once he gets 80-90% approval from the Evangelicals. Both Jindal and Romney could deliver that, however, Romney would deliver that + economic popularity for McCain.

 

[Ipwnyou]

* Shakes head * For one you switched from Obama to McCain, I still havn't seen you prove that going to Europe was Presidential. Second McCain has every right to send two friends and members of his campaign over to Georgia to report back as to what is happening over there.

So you ADMIT that traveling to Europe does not mean he was playing president.
Are you going to admit that mccain was wrong to criticize Obama for traveling to Europe or are you going to acknowledge that he (and his supporters) are hypocrites?

Hey...whatever happened to Obama wanting to run a clean campaign?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/20/obama-camp-links-mccain-to-abramoff-scandal/

The hypocrisy in this post is amazing.
Nearly all of McCain's ads involve criticizing Obama or some imaginary link to terrorists.

Obama's now placing negative ads in 18 states. How is that a change from the status quo, Hussein?

His middle name is hussein.
Now are you going to stop obsessing about it or should I start obsessing over the fact that McCains middle name is Sidney?

 

[BigLutz]

So you ADMIT that traveling to Europe does not mean he was playing president.

I never said it was, nor did anyone else in here. Things that he did while in Europe makes it look like he was playing President. If you can't tell the difference then... well that is pretty sad.

Are you going to admit that mccain was wrong to criticize Obama for traveling to Europe or are you going to acknowledge that he (and his supporters) are hypocrites?

No, becuase as you noticed, and unless you want to provide some proof. McCain wasn't critisizing Obama for just going to Europe, he was critisizing the timing of the trip, and the events that took place on the trip. Obama can go to Europe when ever he wants, what he did in Europe, making himself look like a Rock Star while Americans are suffering tough economic times was utterly stupid and the polls proved that.

I seriously hope that I do not have to dumb it down for you, but you are attacking McCain's reaction for the trip to Europe, with out actually looking at what they were attacking.

The hypocrisy in this post is amazing.
Nearly all of McCain's ads involve criticizing Obama or some imaginary link to terrorists.

Well for one you need to learn what Hypocrisy means, she was talking about how Obama said he would run a clean campaign and that lasted until around June or July when Obama started running the attack ads first.

Second Obama does have a link to terrorists, its called the Weather Underground and Bill Ayres, if you think that is imaginary then I suggest you do some research.

And seriously get over his middle name.

Why? Obama wants to use it as a plus for his campiagn, he put it out there, now others have every right to use it.

 

[Ipwnyou]

I never said it was, nor did anyone else in here. Things that he did while in Europe makes it look like he was playing President.

For the love of God have you seen the quote that I posted! You had a post agreeing with that very quote!

No, becuase as you noticed, and unless you want to provide some proof. McCain wasn't critisizing Obama for just going to Europe, he was critisizing the timing of the trip, and the events that took place on the trip. Obama can go to Europe when ever he wants, what he did in Europe, making himself look like a Rock Star while Americans are suffering tough economic times was utterly stupid and the polls proved that.

So the economic crisis is over?
The economy is the same now as it was during Obama's visit to Europe.

I seriously hope that I do not have to dumb it down for you, but you are attacking McCain's reaction for the trip to Europe, with out actually looking at what they were attacking.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1739117220080717?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
he is criticzing it for being a political event. (which doesn't even make any sense considering that this is an election)
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OGI2ZWI2MzA2MWRkZTIyZmIxZjkzOWE0NjAzMDIwOTA=
AND FOR PLAYING PRESIDENT
Every post you make you are just proving how very right I am.
Just admit that you were wrong and move on...

Why? Obama wants to use it as a plus for his campiagn, he put it out there, now others have every right to use it.

When did Obama use his Middle name as a plus for his campaign?
I don't think I have ever heard Obama say "Z0mg My mIddle name is hussein so vote for me!"
Obsessing over something as trivial as a middle name is a VERY desperate attempt to lower an opponents image.
I guess it just shows how desperate republicans are becoming...

And as I promised I will now start obsessing over McCains middle name.
OMG his middle name is Sidney, this clearly means that he is part of an Australian terrorist organization that is intent upon annexing America as part of Australia.

 

[BigLutz]

For the love of God have you seen the quote that I posted! You had a post agreeing with that very quote!

Okay listen carefully, very very carefully.

Going to Europe, the act of traveling to Europe, WAS NOT PRESIDENTIAL.

No one, is critisizing traveling to Europe, not me, not Cutie, no one. What we are critisizing is the events that happened on the plane with the press, on the ground with the press, and the rock star speach in Germany.

So the economic crisis is over?
The economy is the same now as it was during Obama's visit to Europe.

I never said it was over, Obama's trip to Europe would have been better if he had canceled the rock star speaches and photo ops and just focused on talking to the leaders over there. Instead he looks like he is having a rocking good time, while Americans are suffering.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1739117220080717?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
he is criticzing it for being a political event. (which doesn't even make any sense considering that this is an election)

Becuase, and I believe this is very hard for you to grasp, the act of making a political speach abroad, aka holding a Political Event in Europe, with people that cannot even vote. Is, acting Presidential, especially in the place that Obama had chosen. Now? Now do you see that no one is critisizing the actual act of traveling to Europe, but what he was doing over there.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OGI2ZWI2MzA2MWRkZTIyZmIxZjkzOWE0NjAzMDIwOTA=

* Shakes head * This is getting to the point of stupidity.

Again no one is critiszing the act of going to Europe, this article is attacking Obama for wanting to use the Brandenburg Gate, a spot reserved for heads of state, to hold a rally. Holding a rally there is TRYING TO ACT PRESIDENTIAL. It is not the act of flying over there that is acting Presidential, it is the rally, and the several problems his campiagn had with the press.

AND FOR PLAYING PRESIDENT
Every post you make you are just proving how very right I am.
Just admit that you were wrong and move on...

Becuase I am not wrong, you just cannot understand the difference between traveling, and specific acts. Which is really really sad.

When did Obama use his Middle name as a plus for his campaign?

Saying that his middle name would help him connect with Arabs in the Middle East.

I don't think I have ever heard Obama say "Z0mg My mIddle name is hussein so vote for me!"

You can scroll back a page or two to find the exact quote of when Obama used his name.

Edit: Since I seriously believe you would have a hard problem finding it...

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions...middle_name_hussein_is_only_one_reason_t.html

Asked by writer Jeffrey Goldberg if he was "flummoxed" by the Hamas support, Obama responds no and says: "It's conceivable that there are those in the Arab world who say to themselves, 'This is a guy who spent some time in the Muslim world, has a middle name of Hussein and appears more worldly and has called for talks with people, and so he's not going to be engaging in the same sort of cowboy diplomacy as George Bush,' and that's something they're hopeful about."

Obsessing over something as trivial as a middle name is a VERY desperate attempt to lower an opponents image.

And using his middle name to try and score PR points that it would be able to help him with Mid East Relations is a VERY desperate attempt to raise his public image.

I guess it just shows how desperate republicans are becoming...

You do realize Obama was the one that brought up the middle name, at that point it is fair game.

And as I promised I will now start obsessing over McCains middle name.
OMG his middle name is Sidney, this clearly means that he is part of an Australian terrorist organization that is intent upon annexing America as part of Australia.

Yeah try again later... infact don't, reading your post is mind numbing already.

 

[Magcargo]

Something interesting that has now come over the AP wire is that Hillary will formally release her delegates on Wednesday, allowing them to vote for whomever they want. Looks like the last chance for a major convention embarrassment just passed, unless the Clinton delegates decide on their own to make some trouble.

 

[BigLutz]

Well this came out of left field.

Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell came out today about media bias on Obama, so atleast "Someone" finally gets it.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/0808/Rendell_Obama_coverage_was_embarrassing.html

"Ladies and gentleman, the coverage of Barack Obama was embarrassing," said Rendell, in the ballroom at Denver's Brown Palace Hotel. "It was embarrassing."

“MSNBC was the official network of the Obama campaign," Rendell said, who called their coverage "absolutely embarrassing."

Chris Matthews, Rendell said, "loses his impartiality when he talks about the Clintons.”

 

[Ipwnyou]

Okay listen carefully, very very carefully.

Going to Europe, the act of traveling to Europe, WAS NOT PRESIDENTIAL.

No one, is critisizing traveling to Europe, not me, not Cutie, no one. What we are critisizing is the events that happened on the plane with the press, on the ground with the press, and the rock star speach in Germany.

So there is something wrong with giving speeches?
I guess if we can look at Mccains sending senators to georgia we can just look at Obamas speeches as "talking to some freinds.

Saying that his middle name would help him connect with Arabs in the Middle East.

So criticizing his middle is a legitimate arguement. But criticizing mccain for his poor grades, and for criticizing Obama is stupid.

You can scroll back a page or two to find the exact quote of when Obama used his name.

Edit: Since I seriously believe you would have a hard problem finding it...

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions...middle_name_hussein_is_only_one_reason_t.html
support, Obama responds no and says: "It's conceivable that there are those in the Arab world who say to themselves, 'This is a guy who spent some time in the Muslim world, has a middle name of Hussein and appears more worldly and has called for talks with people, and so he's not going to be engaging in the same sort of cowboy diplomacy as George Bush,' and that's something they're hopeful about."

The guy writing the article has claimed that Obama used it to his advantage.
He didn't give any quotes though and he obviously doesn't like obama so I'm going to need quotes.

Any American who uses his full name is trying to scare voters, his wife charges.

Yeah try again later... infact don't, reading your post is mind numbing already.

Oh boy personal insults!!

 

[BigLutz]

So there is something wrong with giving speeches?

There is a problem with giving speaches over seas to a foreign audiance, especially infront of a place that is reserved for heads of state. The entire purpose of that speach was Obama wanting to look Presidential infront of a world audiance, aka why he choose the original site. You ask why people are going after him for the European trip and that is it.

I guess if we can look at Mccains sending senators to georgia we can just look at Obamas speeches as "talking to some freinds.

You realize we have already been over this before as to why McCain sent the Senators to Georgia, do you really want to lose again?

So criticizing his middle is a legitimate arguement. But criticizing mccain for his poor grades, and for criticizing Obama is stupid.

Oh Obama can critisize about the grades, but seeing how he just got a VP who was graduated:

506th out of 688 classmates

and

76th out of 85 in his law school class

His law school dean described him as a academic "disappointment"

So I wouldn't use it.

And lets also not forget that Obama brought up his middle name to score political points, McCain on the other hand hasn't brought up his grades for political points.

That was an article about how Obama and his wife are accusing people of using his name to scare voters...

Which is fine, but as the article points out, Obama cannot have it both ways.

It wasn't Obama or his supporters who used it....
Here is a quote from the article in case you haven't read it.

Thank you for providing a quote that has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about. Yes his wife got angry about the middle name. But we are talking about Obama using his middle name to gain political points. As I have pointed out above. Or are you trying to just misdirect to keep from losing the argument?

 

[heirokee]

Well this came out of left field.

Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell came out today about media bias on Obama, so atleast "Someone" finally gets it.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/0808/Rendell_Obama_coverage_was_embarrassing.html

"Ladies and gentleman, the coverage of Barack Obama was embarrassing," said Rendell, in the ballroom at Denver's Brown Palace Hotel. "It was embarrassing."

“MSNBC was the official network of the Obama campaign," Rendell said, who called their coverage "absolutely embarrassing."

Chris Matthews, Rendell said, "loses his impartiality when he talks about the Clintons.”

Was there ever a time when this wasn't blatantly obvious to anybody who turned on the TV? Or am I to understand that there are people out there who honestly don't believe their is media bias? I only figured there was a bias because I read the paper, I use the internet, I watch TV, and I read political magazines...



also, I'm feeling like this would be a lot more interesting and enjoyable of a debate if it weren't so obviously a contest of who can put the best spin on a situation... but that's just my opinion.

 

[Ipwnyou]

There is a problem with giving speaches over seas to a foreign audiance, especially infront of a place that is reserved for heads of state. The entire purpose of that speach was Obama wanting to look Presidential infront of a world audiance, aka why he choose the original site. You ask why people are going after him for the European trip and that is it.

I'm just going to drop this subject because we are just repeating ourselves, and nobody is getting anywere.

You realize we have already been over this before as to why McCain sent the Senators to Georgia, do you really want to lose again?

I think you mis understood me.
I wasn't criticizing him for doing it and I don't think there was anything wrong with it.
I just think it's weird how angry people got over Obama going to Europe.

Oh Obama can critisize about the grades, but seeing how he just got a VP who was graduated:

506th out of 688 classmates

and

76th out of 85 in his law school class

His law school dean described him as a academic "disappointment"

So I wouldn't use it.

I'm not SURE but I don't think Obama has spent a lot of time talking about the grades. (but supporters have)
again I;m not sure wether or not Obama has actually done this so don't hold me to it.

Thank you for providing a quote that has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about. Yes his wife got angry about the middle name. But we are talking about Obama using his middle name to gain political points. As I have pointed out above. Or are you trying to just misdirect to keep from losing the argument?

I put that quote into the post by accident.
Please disregard it.

 

[BigLutz]

I'm just going to drop this subject because we are just repeating ourselves, and nobody is getting anywere.

In other words you realize you were losing, but yeah you are not grasping it so lets stop.

I think you mis understood me.
I wasn't criticizing him for doing it and I don't think there was anything wrong with it.
I just think it's weird how angry people got over Obama going to Europe.

Becuase you still do not realize that people are not mad for him going to Europe, but for the events that happened in Europe.

And trying to tie in McCain who has every right and authority as part of his committee to send Senators over to a area that is part of the United States Security Interest, and Obama trying to make a speach at a place reserved for heads of state, which Obama is not yet one of, is incredibly poor.

I'm not SURE but I don't think Obama has spent a lot of time talking about the grades. (but supporters have)
again I;m not sure wether or not Obama has actually done this so don't hold me to it.

Which is fine, but every time a supporter brings up McCain's grades, the Republicans will fire back with Biden's grades which makes Obama look just as bad. And as I have said, McCain never used his grades to score Political Points, Obama on the other hand has used his name to do that, so that makes a pretty big difference.

 

[Ipwnyou]

I'm going to need a link for the thing about Bidens grades.
I've been googling it and I can't seem to find it so if you could please provide a link.

 

[BigLutz]

http://www.realchange.org/biden.htm
http://decision08.net/2005/08/18/sizing-up-biden/
http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2005/06/does_bidens_pla.html#c6390277
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...1575AC0A961948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print
http://volokh.com/posts/1219494951.shtml

Take your pick.

Edit: And remember, that for both Biden and McCain, this is a sample of their life around 50 years ago. Not everyone is a upright studying student went they are 20, but that doesn't mean they have the same work ethic 50 years later. People change, mature, and grow over time.

Also lets also not forget that Biden is also the guy who's replied to a question about his grades with: "I think I probably have a much higher IQ than you do"

Hopefully that clip will be getting some play soon, God knows if it were John McCain who had said that at some time, Obama and the press would be bringing it up every chance they got.

 

[Cutiebunny]

Looks like there really wasn't a Biden Bump in poll numbers:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/24/cnn-poll-post-biden-poll-shows-dead-heat/#comments

I love reading the comments. Seems like the masses figure that Biden was a poor choice and does nothing to add to the 'change' message.

I expect that the DNC convention will give a slight bump to Obama, but as in the case of his Euro Trip, it will be short lived.

 

[Asaspades]

And trying to tie in McCain who has every right and authority as part of his committee to send Senators over to a area that is part of the United States Security Interest, and Obama trying to make a speach at a place reserved for heads of state, which Obama is not yet one of, is incredibly poor.

So lets get this straight, Obama is being presumptive becuase he spoke at a place where heads of state do. And McCain isn't by sending ambassadors. Ok. just checking. Obama also had every right and authority to speak at that spot. That doesn't make it right. McCain is a politician. he gets briefed on the situations as part of the commitee. He doesn't need to send ambassadors to the region. He is told what he needs to know, and i don't think he needs to know any more then that as a civilian and I think you would agree. It's a point you made in a torture or wiretapping debate a while ago maybe? I clearly remember you making that argument though. That civilians don't need to know every minuit detail of whats going on. McCain sending people to the region is arrogant. Like he somehow needs to know more then they're telling him.