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The Official American Election 2008 Thread

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Tanosis

The odd one
Good for you, in other more RELEVENT news. Joe Biden opened his dumb mouth again today.

This morning, Joe Biden said today was not a day for national politics. He said it again during a roundtable discussion outside his childhood home here this afternoon. But before long, he couldn’t help himself, criticizing McCain for his views on offshore drilling and questioning his foreign policy judgment.

“The only guy in America in a position of some authority who is out of sync with the whole rest of the world is John McCain,” he told a small group of relatives and old family friends. “This Administration, the Iraqis, NATO, the Europeans, our friends around the world, the vast majority of the American people, the Democratic-controlled Congress, Republicans in Congress — they all agree. Barack Obama was right, and John McCain was wrong.”

Thank you Joe, becuase now you just showed that the Obama/Biden Campiagn is more worried with attacking John McCain, than being respectful on a day where all Americans are supposed to come together.
Im not relavant (saying this with a very sad face)
Joe makes me laugh and i like your sig im a democrat and it even makes me laugh
Oh yeah forgot Gustav thing, well right now its proven to better than we thought so hang in there hurricane zone
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
so lutz, after this whole daughter incident, what's your personal opinion of obama handling the situation?

ive seen a lot of liberals attack mccain's VP for her social conversatism being illegitimate.
 

BigLutz

Banned
so lutz, after this whole daughter incident, what's your personal opinion of obama handling the situation?
I think he handled it incredibly well, he is right in that children should not be brought into the Political Campiagn smeers. Although there are questions as to if anyone in the actual Obama campiagn helped post this smeer at the Daily Kos. While I dont think Obama had any knowledge of it, if some one on his campiagn actually did post such things, then they should be fired.

ive seen a lot of liberals attack mccain's VP for her social conversatism being illegitimate.
Meaning? I mean she has pretty much followed through with her social conservatism, practicing what she preaches in being Pro Life, and Pro Gun Rights.
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
what i mean is that they're saying is that how she raised her children "somehow" indicates her real feelings about her social conservatism.

of course i guess i can kinda see what they're getting at. if you're a social conservative, i'd expect parenting to be a bit more strict.

personally i dont think that's the case here. regardless of how she raised her daughter, i dont think she could have possibly avoided the situation because children will always do what they want unless you chain them to the house.

edit: actually scratch that. i think it's just simpler to say that what you fight for in congress is a lot different from home matters with children.
 

BigLutz

Banned
edit: actually scratch that. i think it's just simpler to say that what you fight for in congress is a lot different from home matters with children.
I would think that is actually pretty disgusting, that her views are suddenly not as secure becuase her child had sex outside of wedlock.

And mind you I don't think teaching your child to not have sex outside of wedlock is a Conservative or Liberal view. But just a general parent view to keep your child from accidently having a child ( as what happened here ), or to get a STD.

I do also find it quite Ironic that the same Liberals that are going after Palin and her daughter, are usually the same ones that cried out a month ago with John Edwards about privacy, and how what goes on in the bed room is absolutely no buisness of ours.

Hypocracy at it's finest.

edit: Also for more Joe Biden fun!

"I will be back, I'll be back to campaign in earnest," Biden said, "but today is not the moment for me to campaign. Today is the moment for me as a United States senator running for president to put aside the national politics and focus on what's happening down there" in the Gulf Coast.

Of course this was before he decided to delve into National Politics later that day.
 
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Tanosis

The odd one
Aww dang i thought i would be the first one to post about the daughter (oh yeah i forgot about timezones)
But um ghostanime dosent seem like a liberal to me
and um edwards was already out by then
and when his incident supposedly happened (when it was completly denied by him) he wasnt running yet if my sources are correct
and even though us democrats refused to deny edwards his privacy after he was kicked out many turned our back on him politically (all edwards supporters and I)
But i do admit us democrats have had more sex scandals (atleast Bill and Edwards were far over 18)
 
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BigLutz

Banned
But um ghostanime dosent seem like a liberal to me
Never said he was, Ghostanime was just providing the information of what the net roots were doing and thus in return I was talking about said net roots.

and um edwards was already out by then
and when his incident supposedly happened (when it was completly denied by him) he wasnt running yet if my sources are correct
Bristol Palin isn't running for Public Office either.

But i do admit us democrats have had more sex scandals (atleast Bill and Edwards were far over 18)
Republicans also have their own sex scandals. But this 17 year old girl isn't a Democrat or a Republican, she was never a public official or a Presidential Cannidate like Edwards. And she deserves privacy.

Edit: And the biggest LOL today goes to Obama and his utter stupidity.

He is now claiming that since they have ran a Presidential Campiagn for over a year that means he has just as much if not more executive experience for Obama.

The funny thing is, that when you are the cannidate in a Presidential Campiagn, you are NOT the executive of the campiagn. You are not running it, you do not have control over it. You don't even really make the day to day decisions. You have campiagn managers that do all of that. So apparently sitting on his *** is now executive experience.

My god this man is a idiot.
 
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Socrates With A Lobotomy

Well-Known Member
BigLutz, you do know that Biden has since said that he feels McCain has "changed" since 2004, mainly in his tactics and in his views, right?
 

BigLutz

Banned
BigLutz, you do know that Biden has since said that he feels McCain has "changed" since 2004, mainly in his tactics and in his views, right?
Yeah and you know what? I would say that is a lie. No one changes that much in 3 years. No what has changed is Biden's own partisan views to conform with Barack Obama. The Democrats loved John McCain last year with the Immigration reform. They loved John McCain the year before that with the Gang of 12. No, the only people that have "Changed" since 2004, is the Democrat party.

As I type this the Democrat Vice Presidential Candidate from 2000 is speaking in front of the Republican party. He was kicked out of the Democrat Party in 2006, why? Because he didn't want to cut and run. His crime was that he wanted to support the troops and not see Iraq turn into a hell hole. It isn't John McCain that has changed, it is the Democrat Party.
 
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kingferret53

A duel well fought..
One thing I try to consider is the domino effect. If I vote for this guy, how will that effect my country in the long run?

Anyway, I'll admit Idk a lot on McCain nor Obama. Someone who is UNbiased wanna fill me in?
 

BigLutz

Banned
Both of those websites are typically going to be partisan and mostly filled with Spin. Really you are not going to get a non biased point of view here. I mean I could go on and on about the dangers of Obama, and Big Al go on and on about the dangers of McCain.

I would suggest just watch the debates.
 

heirokee

Well-Known Member
I have, a fairly important question, that you may have heard several times but whatever. I'm choosing to do this instead of creating a large satirical post, because every time I do Serebii shuts down in the middle of it.

Anyways, We know that McCain has typically agreed with Bush right? I mean, that's just truth, we have readily available records that confirm this. We also know that most people are having serious issues with Bush, right? I mean, it's pretty much agreed upon that he has been a bad president by this point, or at the very least that he is a president that few people approve of.

So... if we don't like Bush, and McCain typically does the same things Bush does... Why do we like McCain? I mean, can't we just expect all the same things that we don't like?

This just seems like logic to me, but apparently people do not agree. I would just like an explanation. I'm not saying Obama is a great choice, but I'm not really understanding why so many people would be supporting what is, what? 95% on the low side, essentially equal to Bush.
 

Cutiebunny

Frosty Fashionista
Anyways, We know that McCain has typically agreed with Bush right? I mean, that's just truth, we have readily available records that confirm this. We also know that most people are having serious issues with Bush, right? I mean, it's pretty much agreed upon that he has been a bad president by this point, or at the very least that he is a president that few people approve of.

So... if we don't like Bush, and McCain typically does the same things Bush does... Why do we like McCain? I mean, can't we just expect all the same things that we don't like?

This just seems like logic to me, but apparently people do not agree. I would just like an explanation. I'm not saying Obama is a great choice, but I'm not really understanding why so many people would be supporting what is, what? 95% on the low side, essentially equal to Bush.
But McCain typically hasn't agreed with Bush. In fact, the last poll I saw concerning this showed that most Americans do not feel that McCain is affiliated with Bush. That means that most Americans don't buy the bull that the Democrats have been peddling concerning McCain being equivalent to a third Bush term.

..Which is probably why the Obama camp is now scratching its head now concerning a strategy towards him. 'Course, I expect that they're enjoying the whole "Bristol Palin's pregnancy" thing, however, I honestly feel that the media shouldn't make it as big as a deal as they have been. Bristol isn't running for office, she is still a minor and she should be left alone. What's next....Obama's kid brings home an "F" in English and the media blows it up into a fiasco? Come on - they're just kids. They didn't ask to have parents who were in politics and they should be allowed to live their lives privately.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Anyways, We know that McCain has typically agreed with Bush right? I mean, that's just truth, we have readily available records that confirm this. We also know that most people are having serious issues with Bush, right? I mean, it's pretty much agreed upon that he has been a bad president by this point, or at the very least that he is a president that few people approve of.

So... if we don't like Bush, and McCain typically does the same things Bush does... Why do we like McCain? I mean, can't we just expect all the same things that we don't like?
Well for one no McCain does not typically agree with Bush. The thing Obama likes to push for this lie is McCain's voting record from the last year. The problem with that is that Congress for the last two years have been utter failures. Most of the bills typically pass unanomously, meaning that everyone votes on them, or they usually do not pass at all. Not to mention the amount of bills voted on by McCain and Obama are incredibly low becuase they are on the campaign trail.

Those two things together are going to change their voting record alot. To put it in perspective, Obama voted with Bush nearly 50% of the time last year. And McCain and Obama were not there to vote on all the bills together so that number with McCain and Obama could rise and fall.

Basically McCain has been a thorn in Bush's side on a wide variety of issues. This hasn't changed since 2000. Democrats like to forget about it, but he was considered to be their Vice President nominee back in 2004. Do you honestly think the Democrats would have deeply considered a VP that was so much like Bush as they claim?

Also another thing that should be pointed out is that while McCain voting record for Bush is high in the past two years. Obama's voting record for Democrats is even higher. Now I don't know if you have checked but the support for the Democrat Congress is lower than Bush, I mean it is in the single digits!

Not to mention if we are going to believe McCain's voting record during the campiagn season where he is off campiagning more than in the Senate. Then the same must be applied to Obama, which at that point Obama is not going to bring change, he is not going to be post partisan, he is just going to bring the actions of a Congress with a 9% approval rating to the White House.
 

ironknight42

Well-Known Member
"record for Democrats is even higher"
but the a Democrat hasn't been doing the best they can do and still screwing up...
It's not Bush's fault with some of the stuff but other stuff he just made some stupid moves. The job of president is difficult and I think that no canidate that was considered was made of the right stuff to be president.
"Now I don't know if you have checked but the support for the Democrat Congress is lower than Bush, I mean it is in the single digits!"
Proof please the single digits I find that hard to believe.
Might I point out that Obama is voting with the Senate while McCain is going with the President who is not well liked. That might be what their going for.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Proof please the single digits I find that hard to believe.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ssional_performance/congressional_performance

Its been hanging around 9% for a while.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just nine percent (9%) of Likely Voters give Congress positive ratings, while 51% say it's doing a poor job.

Might I point out that Obama is voting with the Senate while McCain is going with the President who is not well liked. That might be what their going for.
Yeah but it is Congress that is hated even more than the President. And while Obama may have voted along Democrat party lines in the Senate, the Democrat Majority in Congress has horrible ratings. And Obama shares alot of responsability for the "Do Nothing" Congress that we have.

By the way it is time for our Daily Joe Biden quotes:

Today we have Joe Biden on the Supreme Court, proving that he is less qualified than Sarah Palin.

"We have enough professors on the bench. I want someone who ran for dog catcher. I want someone — literally, not a joke."
 
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heirokee

Well-Known Member
First, I would like to say, BigLutz, that "daily joe biden quotes" are just a little bit... well the word escapes me but it seems unnecessary. I'm pretty sure that we're all well aware that Biden has a tendency to stick his foot in his mouth. It's really just kicking a dead horse and asking for people to lambaste you.

Anyways, to the rest of you, I know that McCain has, in the past, been very liberal minded. I think the problem is that during his campaign, he has consistently tried to prove to America that he is a conservative person (you know, because a lot of Republicans are reluctant to support a lot of his beliefs)... which really just seems like BS because he hasn't been for so long. Still, right now, the image he is putting out into the public is that he is a conservative and that he is like Bush. Even if he isn't, which I know he historically has not been, it's hard to accept that view right now if only because he is doing very little to refute it. You may not agree that he's giving off this image, but at the very least, you have to admit that he is trying to act more conservative then what he has been in the past.

Also, it's interesting that you bring up the fact that he has not been voting much during his campaign. You're absolutely right, and I don't blame him for shifting focus, but I feel that it may not have been the wisest decision after he had stated something along the lines of him being willing to lose the presidency if it meant losing the US... that's not exact, and a little out of context, but he was clearly indicating that he felt it was very important to continue to vote, regardless of his campaign. With this in mind, it would, or rather should, be proper to state that his voting for this year has been typical of his true beliefs. We should all understand the fallacies in this reasoning, but it's politics, they tend not to really matter when lying gets involved. It would be incredibly easy to just add a little spin to this, as so many of you are fond of, and have a convincing argument that McCain is either a Bushite or an oh-so-dreaded "flip-flopper."

I think, that if McCain were to want to put out an image that opposed this Bush-like accusation, he should have been more actively opposing it. His current views, falsified as they may be, are clearly in line with typical current Bush politics. In terms of the election, I don't think it's fair to be saying what he has done in the past in terms of viewpoints, that is, unless you wish to admit he is a "flip-flopper."

I'm not saying I believe in any of this stuff, I'm just saying that the argument exists and I think the way you're trying to debate his Bushiness is probably a poor tactic.



Also, I think criticisms of a congress that has conflicting majority to the executive, and really vise versa to some extent (though not enough to justify saying Bush was a good president), are not really fair, if only because we all know that it is significantly harder to get things done in this situation. We also currently have a real issue with the heavily conflicting viewpoints of several of the most important issues which results in less of teh more monumental things getting done on top of the lack of progress in general.





BTW: did anybody else hear that Palin was saying we need more nuclear, wind and coal power plants? I'm a little bit confused by this... I mean, I thought it was generally agreed upon that these were not the best sources of energy. I mean, especially coal, what's up with that? Even if she meant clean burning coal, it's still terribly polluting and generally inefficient... she just lost a lot more points in my book...
 

BigLutz

Banned
First, I would like to say, BigLutz, that "daily joe biden quotes" are just a little bit... well the word escapes me but it seems unnecessary. I'm pretty sure that we're all well aware that Biden has a tendency to stick his foot in his mouth. It's really just kicking a dead horse and asking for people to lambaste you.
It's just a nice reminder of how stupid and how horrible your Vice President choice is. And seeing how the Vice President choice is hailed as the first big decision of a President...

Anyways, to the rest of you, I know that McCain has, in the past, been very liberal minded. I think the problem is that during his campaign, he has consistently tried to prove to America that he is a conservative person (you know, because a lot of Republicans are reluctant to support a lot of his beliefs)... which really just seems like BS because he hasn't been for so long. Still, right now, the image he is putting out into the public is that he is a conservative and that he is like Bush. Even if he isn't, which I know he historically has not been, it's hard to accept that view right now if only because he is doing very little to refute it. You may not agree that he's giving off this image, but at the very least, you have to admit that he is trying to act more conservative then what he has been in the past.
He may have acted more conservative than the past, but then again, so is Obama and you also cannot deny that. And even still on major issues like Global Warming and Guitmo, McCain is still very opposed to the old GOP plan.

Also, it's interesting that you bring up the fact that he has not been voting much during his campaign. You're absolutely right, and I don't blame him for shifting focus, but I feel that it may not have been the wisest decision after he had stated something along the lines of him being willing to lose the presidency if it meant losing the US... that's not exact, and a little out of context, but he was clearly indicating that he felt it was very important to continue to vote, regardless of his campaign.
You are a little confused, he said he would rather lose a Campaign than lose a War. Talking about how he would rather win in Iraq than lose. And mind you none of them, neither Obama nor McCain have been voting much in the Senate. And why should they? It's a "Do Nothing" Senate in the stricktest sense, they have done nearly nothing, except dub names to post offices.

With this in mind, it would, or rather should, be proper to state that his voting for this year has been typical of his true beliefs. We should all understand the fallacies in this reasoning, but it's politics, they tend not to really matter when lying gets involved. It would be incredibly easy to just add a little spin to this, as so many of you are fond of, and have a convincing argument that McCain is either a Bushite or an oh-so-dreaded "flip-flopper."
Well mind you this year has been incredibly lack luster in the Senate, combine that with being on the campiagn trail, the only thing to vote for is things that could pass the White House.

Now I ask, what about last year? Or have you guys forgotten about McCain/Kennedy?

Or how about the year before that? Or have you forgotten about the Gang of 12?

Or how about the year before that? Or have you forgotten about the McCain Torture Amendment?

Or how about the year before that? When he was about to be the Vice President Nominee for the Democrats?

I think, that if McCain were to want to put out an image that opposed this Bush-like accusation, he should have been more actively opposing it.
So where were you during McCain/Kennedy just 365 days or so ago?

His current views, falsified as they may be, are clearly in line with typical current Bush politics.
Global Warming, Guitmo, Spending, Torture. All of these things he differs with Bush with. How about you actually look around and stop reciting Liberal talking points? You are better than that.

Edit: And you know where they differ the most in? RUSSIA. Bush thought he could hold a friendship with Russia by sucking up, we saw how well that worked...
If anything Obama and Bush agree on Russia, which is the most defining Foreign Policy issue right now.

OBUSH!

In terms of the election, I don't think it's fair to be saying what he has done in the past in terms of viewpoints, that is, unless you wish to admit he is a "flip-flopper."
Except he has maintained his core beliefs, as the ones I named. You want to look at a flip flopper, look at Obama. Where apparently core beliefs like Campiagn Fiance Reform can be bought by the highest bidder.

I'm not saying I believe in any of this stuff, I'm just saying that the argument exists and I think the way you're trying to debate his Bushiness is probably a poor tactic.
See the problem is the argument doesnt exist, it is just the stupidity of the spin, and hoping that the American Public is dumb enough to forget history.

Also, I think criticisms of a congress that has conflicting majority to the executive, and really vise versa to some extent (though not enough to justify saying Bush was a good president), are not really fair, if only because we all know that it is significantly harder to get things done in this situation.
Yeah god forbid they negotiate with the President, and work with him to pass legislation.

BTW: did anybody else hear that Palin was saying we need more nuclear, wind and coal power plants? I'm a little bit confused by this... I mean, I thought it was generally agreed upon that these were not the best sources of energy. I mean, especially coal, what's up with that? Even if she meant clean burning coal, it's still terribly polluting and generally inefficient... she just lost a lot more points in my book...
America is the Saudi Arabia of Coal, we also power most of our country on coal. If you want to look at one of the quickest ways to energy independence, it is through coal. Second there are many countries out there ( France ) that run safely on Nuclear Power. Thinking that it isn't a best source of energy is just incredibly uninformed.

Now I can understand you and other Obama fans are scared, I know you are terrified, McCain risked everything on Palin and tonight she proved why Democrats in Alaska said "Cross her at your own peril."

Bring on Joe Biden...

And while Sarah may have lost your vote, she did pick up a couple million tonight. I call that a fair trade.
 
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