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The Official American Election 2008 Thread

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BillyBob15

<- Newest shiny
It's just a nice reminder of how stupid and how horrible your Vice President choice is. And seeing how the Vice President choice is hailed as the first big decision of a President..

Of course you could say the same for Palin. It was a big risk choosing a low experienced hockey mom than many of the other choices. Its great and all since she'll get the hardcore republicans but for the undecided voters, not as much as McCain could've gotten with the other candidates
 

BigLutz

Banned
Of course you could say the same for Palin.

Not really. Obama choose a Old Idiot who has been entrenched in Washington and has a Lobbiest son that gets Washington Favors. Obama put the symbol of Corrupt Washington as his VP.

McCain went after some one who is far outside of Washington, has more management experience than Obama and Biden combined, and has actually worked to change corruption.

If anything McCain proved he was willing to be the Maverick of Change. Obama proved he was bringing more of the same ole Washington.

It was a big risk choosing a low experienced hockey mom than many of the other choices.

Well lets look at the other choices. You have Romney who while a great economic's spokesman, isnt the best on camera, and has money baggage which would have done horribly during a time Obama was hammering McCain on houses.

You have the Tim Pawlenty, which has just as little experience as Palin, but not the same amount of "Take down Corruption" track record.

You have Bobby Jindal who is looking to be the next President, but with a Hurricane heading his way, and another on the horizon he wouldn't even make the convention, and still has alot to work on in Louisanna.

You have Lieberman who would have been great but would have absolutely fractured the party, meaning McCain would spend the next month or so working on unity while dodging attacks on Obama.

Really, there is your short list. So who can you honestly say on that short list is better than Palin, especially after tonight!

Its great and all since she'll get the hardcore republicans but for the undecided voters, not as much as McCain could've gotten with the other candidates

You are seriously seriously underestimating her. And really out of all the cannidates on the short list that could have made a grab for independents, it would have been Lieberman. Instead with Palin you grab the working class better than Biden, and you make a grab for Single Mothers and Middle Age Mothers. And if McCain gets those, well there goes the ball game.
 
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heirokee

Well-Known Member
America is the Saudi Arabia of Coal, we also power most of our country on coal. If you want to look at one of the quickest ways to energy independence, it is through coal. Second there are many countries out there ( France ) that run safely on Nuclear Power. Thinking that it isn't a best source of energy is just incredibly uninformed.

No, thinking it isn't the best source of energy is accepting reality. Nuclear power, despite the fact that it can create large sources of energy, is incredibly polluting, incredibly dangerous, and the only source of energy in existence which actually destroys matter. As somebody who lives within miles of TMI, I may be slightly biased, but I can tell you that it is simply unwise to continue to rely on nuclear power when there are significantly better options.

I do appreciate that she proposed geothermal energy, as that is quite probably one of the safest and least polluting forms of energy known currently. It produces incredible amounts of energy and plants can be opened anywhere there is land... which makes it pretty easy to use. Still, she left out one of the most important up-and-coming energy sources, wave energy. If there is a source of moving water anywhere around the destination of the power, it is ridiculous to NOT be using wave energy. It's cheap, effective and almost nonexistent in terms of ecological impact.

Yes, we could become energy independent off of coal, and probably quicker as we have more existing plants, but it's nonsensical to continue building plants that use outdated, expensive, and polluting technology.


I know this was a little lackluster on the specifics, but I'm a little tired now to look up some exact sources. I may edit this later, I just felt the need to respond as it is apparent to me that you are a little uninformed about all the types of energy available to us now and the different advantages and disadvantages.



(BTW: about the TMI thing, yes, I am in PA, and I can tell you definitively: Pennsylvanians are bitter and they cling to their guns and religion for hope. I have never once seen the problem in that statement. I think the problem is that most of us are using our guns and religion to convince ourselves that we are not bitter, but that's just delusional. The next president needs to figure out how to support the economic needs of the blue-collar Pennsylvanian so that we stop being bitter. Though honestly, the only way they could do that is to revive Pittsburgh... I don't think any of us really want that to happen...)
 

BigLutz

Banned
No, thinking it isn't the best source of energy is accepting reality. Nuclear power, despite the fact that it can create large sources of energy, is incredibly polluting, incredibly dangerous, and the only source of energy in existence which actually destroys matter. As somebody who lives within miles of TMI, I may be slightly biased, but I can tell you that it is simply unwise to continue to rely on nuclear power when there are significantly better options.

Well for some one who lives within a Nuclear Power plant as well that is still active today I can tell you it isn't dangerous and it isn't that polluting. France has made great strides in the form of Nuclear Energy, and if we truely want to get off foreign fuel, we shouldnt take anything off the table. And I think we both can agree with that right?

Still, she left out one of the most important up-and-coming energy sources, wave energy. If there is a source of moving water anywhere around the destination of the power, it is ridiculous to NOT be using wave energy. It's cheap, effective and almost nonexistent in terms of ecological impact.

I think she made it pretty clear that McCain/Palin are going for a "All of the above" type thing. Not everything could really be mentioned in one breath.

Yes, we could become energy independent off of coal, and probably quicker as we have more existing plants, but it's nonsensical to continue building plants that use outdated, expensive, and polluting technology.

Well I would say that they are not out dated, anything we build is going to be expensive, as for pollution, that is the price you pay alot of times, and we are making strides to correct that. But the thing about coal is that out of all the energy options, coal would provide the most amount of jobs and alot of help for alot of states. Not to mention the huge amount we are actually sitting on. Going full steam into Coal Production would really be a big boost into the arm for the economy.

I know this was a little lackluster on the specifics, but I'm a little tired now to look up some exact sources. I may edit this later, I just felt the need to respond as it is apparent to me that you are a little uninformed about all the types of energy available to us now and the different advantages and disadvantages.

Well really I would say you are just as uninformed, especially are nuclear energy and the amount of coal resources in this country ( I can understand that though, Obama isnt a fan of specifics ). We havn't had a major incident with Nuclear Energy since what the 70s? We havn't had a terrorist attack against it, and from what I heard the amount of waste that it pumps out per year can fit into a desk drawer.

Listen, if any President wants to truely get us off Foreign Energy, and help this country, then they will have to use everything. Not some of this, and some of that, EVERYTHING. Its almost pathetic that Obama hasn't come to that conclusion yet.

(BTW: about the TMI thing, yes, I am in PA, and I can tell you definitively: Pennsylvanians are bitter and they cling to their guns and religion for hope. I have never once seen the problem in that statement.

Maybe becuase it is condensending especially since people do not "cling" to guns, or "cling" to religion. But celebrate their religion and embrace their guns.

I think the problem is that most of us are using our guns and religion to convince ourselves that we are not bitter, but that's just delusional. The next president needs to figure out how to support the economic needs of the blue-collar Pennsylvanian so that we stop being bitter. Though honestly, the only way they could do that is to revive Pittsburgh... I don't think any of us really want that to happen...)

Well I would say that the first thing the next President needs to do is not to look down at the Blue Collar workers and name off the things they cling to and talk about how bitter they are. Demeaning people as Obama has done, and insulting them, isnt really what a leader should do.
 

BillyBob15

<- Newest shiny
McCain went after some one who is far outside of Washington, has more management experience than Obama and Biden combined, and has actually worked to change corruption.
Can't change corruption if you're corrupt yourself. Palin pressured Walter Monegan, the Public Safety Commissioner she appointed, to fire Michael Wooten, her sister's ex-husband. When Monegan refused, he was promptly fired by Palin. Even as a mayor, she threatened the city librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, with her job, just because Emmons wouldn't ban a couple books from the library. There's obviously some hypocrisy going around and i don't want any more going to the White House

I'm also very intrigued at the Republican's faith in Palin considering she was unheard of less than a week ago. You would think, if a person was great for the job, you would normally expect to hear at least some consideration of her in the press. But there must have been something extraordinary McCain learned of her in the 2 meetings (one was just on the phone) total he spent talking to her before he announced his choice. I'd want a bit more consideration to go in if she becomes America's VP, let alone the possibility of presidency, heaven forbid something would happen to McCain
 

BigLutz

Banned
Can't change corruption if you're corrupt yourself.

Talking about Obama/Biden again I see...

Palin pressured Walter Monegan, the Public Safety Commissioner she appointed, to fire Michael Wooten, her sister's ex-husband. When Monegan refused, he was promptly fired by Palin. Even as a mayor, she threatened the city librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, with her job, just because Emmons wouldn't ban a couple books from the library. There's obviously some hypocrisy going around and i don't want any more going to the White House

Well for one the Liberian thing is a non story at best, and really if you want to compare the type of corruption of like Obama throwing his opponent off the ballot, to well, a Liberian issue when it comes to corruption. Palin wins. As for the Safety Commissioner, not only was he serving at her pleasure, but he was also not pulling in the numbers with recruiting for Sherifs, but he was also having problem with boot legged liquor going around the police force.

To make matters worse look at Michael Wooten, the man drank inside of public property ( a Police Car ), he tazered a 11 year old child, and he told Palin's father, that he would "f'ing" shoot him if he got Palin's sister a lawyer for the divorce. Now I do not care how politically bias you are, a cop going around threatning to shoot people does not belong in Uniform.

I'm also very intrigued at the Republican's faith in Palin considering she was unheard of less than a week ago. You would think, if a person was great for the job, you would normally expect to hear at least some consideration of her in the press.

Actually I heard about her a few months ago when she was up in Texas. But actually not hearing about her tends to be a good thing, it keeps her out of the media's watch and lets her Govern. There is a reason why she has a 80% Approval Rating in Alaska, and it isnt becuase she has been on Meet the Press.

But there must have been something extraordinary McCain learned of her in the 2 meetings (one was just on the phone) total he spent talking to her before he announced his choice. I'd want a bit more consideration to go in if she becomes America's VP, let alone the possibility of presidency, heaven forbid something would happen to McCain

Of course, becuase there is absolutely no way he could have used possibly a fax or maybe even the internet to research and get information about her. Yes you can get alot of information from a face to face conversation, but that doesn't mean he wasn't getting a wealth of information on her from other sources.

Edit: And you know what? I think we found out tonight why it only took two meetings for him to decide. She has only had what, one meeting with the American people. And people are falling in love with her. The energy, the enthusiasm, the overall likeability with her just gives off a amazing first impression.

And really, 2 meetings or not, he made the right choice and tonight proved that. No ifs, ands, or buts, about it.
 
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Scizito_92

koledge graduit!!!11
Well I would say that the first thing the next President needs to do is not to look down at the Blue Collar workers and name off the things they cling to and talk about how bitter they are. Demeaning people as Obama has done, and insulting them, isnt really what a leader should do.

...Could you please give an example, or better yet, give us a link in which Obama insults the Blue Collar workers?
 

BigLutz

Banned
...Could you please give an example, or better yet, give us a link in which Obama insults the Blue Collar workers?

Who do you think make up a majority of those small towns who Obama called Bitter? Who Obama said cling to Guns, Religion, and Racism? That is one thing alot of people forget, is that he didn't just say that they cling to their guns and religion, but that they also cling to Racism as well.

Also today's Daily Biden Quote is a Twofer! In the span of less than a week Biden has flip flopped on a major issue faster than you can say "Change You Can Believe In."

Labor Day: "I’m not opposed to drilling,”
Today: "I’m against it"

Edit: Also two things, one the amount of damage that Palin gave Obama last night is showing, they are hurt, angry, and terrified of her.

Also it should be known that Obama's sexist supporters continue to attack her, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reed called her speach last night, and I quote "Shrill" which, is a incredibly sexist statement.

The media numbers are also in from last night: 37,244,000. That is only 1 Million less than Obama, and Obama was on 4 more channels than her! If she had been on 10 channels like Obama instead of 6, there is little doubt that she would have beaten Obama!

Also Detroit's Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick has pled guilty to his crimes. Now what makes this news worthy is becuase just a year or so ago Obama was lavishing praise onto Mayor Kilpatrick. Soooo... this is what the second or third person Obama has supported that has gone or is on his way to jail for corruption.
 
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ironknight42

Well-Known Member
"Also Detroit's Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick has pled guilty to his crimes. Now what makes this news worthy is becuase just a year or so ago Obama was lavishing praise onto Mayor Kilpatrick. Soooo... this is what the second or third person Obama has supported that has gone or is on his way to jail for corruption."
Perhaps I did not stress this enough in earlier parts of this debate. That a man in not defined by others actions. Is Barrack Obama Mayor Kilpatrick...I think not.
 

GrizzlyB

Confused and Dazed
ironknight42 said:
Perhaps I did not stress this enough in earlier parts of this debate. That a man in not defined by others actions. Is Barrack Obama Mayor Kilpatrick...I think not.

But if these are the types of people Obama supports and praises, what do you think his cabinet's going to be like? What about the Supreme Court?
 

Kikas123

What 'bout My Star?
Perhaps I did not stress this enough in earlier parts of this debate. That a man in not defined by others actions. Is Barrack Obama Mayor Kilpatrick...I think not.

Yes, but a man's judgment and character is deemed by his actions and who he keeps for company.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Perhaps I did not stress this enough in earlier parts of this debate. That a man in not defined by others actions. Is Barrack Obama Mayor Kilpatrick...I think not.

That is true, a man on the other hand is defined by his OWN actions, and Obama has a long record of choosing and backing very corrupt, very horrible officials. His horrible and poor judgement when it comes to choosing other people fails him time and time again.

Although the two above me just said that as well ^^

Now, that, THAT was a speach. THAT was a speach in line with Reagan, in line with MLK, in line with JFK. Was it better than them? No, Was it as good as them? No but I do feel the ending came close. The speach itself, it went above Partisan levels, and the last ten minutes were beyond greatness. I really cannot see how anyone, Democrat, Republican, or Indepdent, cannot feel enthusiastic with the end

I’m going to fight for my cause every day as your President. I’m going to fight to make sure every American has every reason to thank God, as I thank Him: that I’m an American, a proud citizen of the greatest country on earth, and with hard work, strong faith and a little courage, great things are always within our reach. Fight with me. Fight with me.

Fight for what’s right for our country.

Fight for the ideals and character of a free people.

Fight for our children’s future.

Fight for justice and opportunity for all.

Stand up to defend our country from its enemies.

Stand up for each other; for beautiful, blessed, bountiful America.

Stand up, stand up, stand up and fight. Nothing is inevitable here. We’re Americans, and we never give up. We never quit. We never hide from history. We make history.

Thank you, and God Bless you.
 
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BillyBob15

<- Newest shiny
I can see it now

Fight for the ideals and character of a free people.
But mainly for large corporations and the top wealhiest men and women of the country

Fight for our children’s future.
Of course! Don't forget his efforts on education, but in case you forgot.
http://www.democrats.org/a/2008/07/mccain_watch_ed.php

Fight for justice and opportunity for all.
Espeecially with tax cuts specifically with the wealthy in mind
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/07/09/mccain_taxes/

Stand up to defend our country from its enemies.
Heck, lets keep it going another 100 years. Our economy can stand it


some people don't feel as enthusiastic about the speech cause its not the speech that truly matters in the end. Its the actions that go along with it.
 

Cutiebunny

Frosty Fashionista
Of course! Don't forget his efforts on education, but in case you forgot.
http://www.democrats.org/a/2008/07/mccain_watch_ed.php

Nothing like quoting a non-biased website as your proof, eh?

I was impressed by his speech as well. Much better than Obama's paltry attempt at one during his convention. Of course, most of the liberals that float around on CNN.com didn't like his speech, which means that it was a very good speech.
 

BigLutz

Banned
But mainly for large corporations and the top wealhiest men and women of the country

Funny how last night's address was more of a "I serve you" style. But seeing how Obama has secured hundreds of millions of dollars of ear marks. I wouldn't be talking.

Of course! Don't forget his efforts on education, but in case you forgot.
http://www.democrats.org/a/2008/07/mccain_watch_ed.php

Seeing how horribly in bed your cannidate is with teachers unions I wouldn't be talking. Screw the schools, screw 7 our days, lets make sure even the bad teachers can have 6 figures!

It's halarious, things like Education and Health Care have been Democrat Talking Points for the longest time, now McCain is directly confronting them. Last night he said something that spoke to everyone, that Education is the Civil Rights issue of this century. We have to confront it, and sucking up to Unions is not going to fix it, it is just going to make the problem worse.

Espeecially with tax cuts specifically with the wealthy in mind
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/07/09/mccain_taxes/

* Shakes head *

McCain's tax cuts would effect our corperations, and by in large everyone from small buisness in up. We just lost even more employees and are now at 6.1% Unemployment. We need tax cuts, we need insentives to get these people to hire workers again. Now I don't know about you, but I would rather have lower unemployment. Becuase no matter who the tax cuts go to, it is pretty silly to give tax cuts to people who do not even have a job.

Heck, lets keep it going another 100 years. Our economy can stand it

The absolute stupidity of the 100 year meme went out months ago.

some people don't feel as enthusiastic about the speech cause its not the speech that truly matters in the end. Its the actions that go along with it.

Same could be said about Obama's speach. Problem is McCain has the actions to back it up. Obama doesnt.

Edit: 3 to 4 point bounce with the Palin speach! And that is before the McCain Indepedence Speach!

Also Palin is now viewed more favorably than Obama OR McCain!

Also this has been a sucky week for Obama, first Palin, now the Detroit Mayor.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157274

And if you think this will get swept away, wait till the campaign ads across the nation come out!
"great mayor" "astounding things for many years to come" "I'm grateful to call him a friend."
 
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Scizito_92

koledge graduit!!!11
Who do you think make up a majority of those small towns who Obama called Bitter? Who Obama said cling to Guns, Religion, and Racism? That is one thing alot of people forget, is that he didn't just say that they cling to their guns and religion, but that they also cling to Racism as well.
You still haven't shown me proof that he said that.

Also today's Daily Biden Quote is a Twofer! In the span of less than a week Biden has flip flopped on a major issue faster than you can say "Change You Can Believe In."

Labor Day: "I’m not opposed to drilling,”
Today: "I’m against it"

Speaking of flip-flop:

Flippedy-Floppedy
Floppedy-Flipppedy

Edit: Also two things, one the amount of damage that Palin gave Obama last night is showing, they are hurt, angry, and terrified of her.
Did the Obama campaign say that, or was it Fox News? None of the above?

Also it should be known that Obama's sexist supporters continue to attack her, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reed called her speach last night, and I quote "Shrill" which, is a incredibly sexist statement.
I didn't realize that saying someones speech was "shrill" was in anyway related to sexism.

The media numbers are also in from last night: 37,244,000. That is only 1 Million less than Obama, and Obama was on 4 more channels than her! If she had been on 10 channels like Obama instead of 6, there is little doubt that she would have beaten Obama!
And there are still two months left before the election. Two whole months.

Also Detroit's Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick has pled guilty to his crimes. Now what makes this news worthy is becuase just a year or so ago Obama was lavishing praise onto Mayor Kilpatrick. Soooo... this is what the second or third person Obama has supported that has gone or is on his way to jail for corruption.
I take it he was part of some sex scandal he shouldn't have been apart of?
 

BigLutz

Banned
You still haven't shown me proof that he said that.

That he said people in small towns cling to Guns, religion, and those not like them?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/04/12/2008-04-12_obama_some_pennsylvanians_bitter.html

Did the Obama campaign say that, or was it Fox News? None of the above?

Neither, it shows through their actions. He is acting as if Palin and McCain have gotten under his skin.

In less than a day he has not only reverted back to throwing accusations at McCain.

“And I know that the temptation is to say, ‘You know what? …The guy hasn’t been there that long in Washington.,’ You know, ‘he’s got funny name,’ You know, ‘we’re not sure about him,’” Obama continued. “And that’s what the Republicans, when they say, ‘This isn’t about issues, it’s about personalities,’ what they’re really saying is, ‘We’re going to try to scare people about Barack. So we’re going to say that you know, maybe he’s got Muslim connections or we’re going to say that, you know, he hangs out with radicals or he’s not patriotic.’

Its funny how he mixes lies * That they would mention Muslim Connections or his name *, with the truth * That he has radical connections *. In a attempt to gain sympathy. Atleast he didn't say that they would try to scare people becuase he is black. I would say that is a step up, but then again that is like saying a fly going from a turd to vomit is a step up.

But he didn't stop there. He decided to go after Palin as well.

“wants to be treated same way guys want to be treated, which means their records are under scrutinty. I’ve been through this for 19 months. She’s been through it, what four days?”

It's quite halarious if he thinks the treatment Palin's family got in less than a week, is the same that he got over 19 months time. That is quite halarious, and well quite blind of him. And trying to inject Gender into it, is even worse of him. The man truely is scum.

I didn't realize that saying someones speech was "shrill" was in anyway related to sexism.

Shrill is a attriubute usually given to women. Meaning they are loud, grating, annoying.

Just like the idiot from Georgia that called Obama "Uppity" which is a degrading term toward blacks. Shrill is a degrading term toward a woman, and was even used against Hillary during the campaign season.

And there are still two months left before the election. Two whole months.

True but if you go by media numbers on who watched what. Palin kicked Biden's ***. And McCain beat Obama.

I take it he was part of some sex scandal he shouldn't have been apart of?

Who Mayor Kilpatrick or Obama? Mayor Kilpatrick was part of various scandals that sent him to jail. Obama on the other hand had the stupidity to call the man a friend and said he would do great things in the future ( I guess he meant behind bars ). Which continues to show that Obama's judgement fails him.
 
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BillyBob15

<- Newest shiny
Funny how last night's address was more of a "I serve you" style. But seeing how Obama has secured hundreds of millions of dollars of ear marks. I wouldn't be talking.
First off, i base my opinions more off of actions rather than a speech specifically designed to give people feeling that they will be taken care of.
But if I were you, I wouldn't be talking either. In fact, McCain makes hundreds of millions of dollars look like spare change. McCain's own economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, said that McCain's anti-earmark uses the Congressional Research Service's (CRS) definition of the term. However, the CRS identifies U.S's aid to Israel as an earmark. Obviously McCain is "a very strong proponent to the State of Israel." (Quoting McCain himself) So how much has McCain helped Israel with these defined earmarks. Not one hundred million. Not a billion. Not even ten billion, but 52 billion dollars per year on Israel alone. Even more interesting, in 2001, McCain got himself an approved $500,000 earmark for a small town named Wasilla. If you're not familiar with this city, it happened to be a town in Alaska, with a mayor named (you guessed it) Sarah Palin. It seems that, for her time as mayor, Sarah Palin had gathered a total amount of 27 million dollars for her town. You would think this town must have desperately needed this to survive, but strangely, Wasilla had received few if any earmarks before Palin became mayor. Of course, it seems that not only was Sarah Palin not against earmarks, but she believed, and i quote her, that "The federal budget, in its various manifestations, is incredibly important to us, and congressional earmarks are one aspect of this relationship." So either Sarah Palin is doing some cliched flip-flopping or she is keeping some secrets from the country she says she's backing.


Seeing how horribly in bed your cannidate is with teachers unions I wouldn't be talking. Screw the schools, screw 7 our days, lets make sure even the bad teachers can have 6 figures!
Wow, I'm hoping that the last comment there wasn't serious, because if it is, its way off track. Just to make things clear, teachers obviously don't come close to 6 figures. Average starting pays for teachers from elementary to high school is a mere 40,000. Not even halfway to a six figure. Of course, on the other side, the range pay for the top Harvard professors is 115,000. So unless you meant to say that Harvard teachers are bad and should be fired, your argument isn't very clear to me. Besides, school boards have concocted ways to make sure that even the good teachers are still in danger to being fired. My mother's a teacher is a teacher, i should know. By the way, she makes 40,000 a year, in prosperous California nonetheless, and has been teaching for 5 years.

Also Palin is now viewed more favorably than Obama OR McCain!
I would like to see your proof on this, but true or not, I wouldn't be celebrating that a VP candidate that most people hardly heard of less than a couple weeks ago is more favored than your own candidate for president. (whether we debate on it or not, its pointless to try to debate that very many people were expecting her to be picked, including herself) Of course like i said, I would like to see the proof.
 

BigLutz

Banned
First off, i base my opinions more off of actions rather than a speech specifically designed to give people feeling that they will be taken care of.
But if I were you, I wouldn't be talking either. In fact, McCain makes hundreds of millions of dollars look like spare change. McCain's own economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, said that McCain's anti-earmark uses the Congressional Research Service's (CRS) definition of the term. However, the CRS identifies U.S's aid to Israel as an earmark.

Which is absolutely stupid, a ear mark in the purest sense is something that a cannidate reserves for his or her own community. Trying to put this Internation Aid or Internation Money is a ear mark is the absolute same insanity that Big Al tried to make. It doesn't work.

Obviously McCain is "a very strong proponent to the State of Israel." (Quoting McCain himself) So how much has McCain helped Israel with these defined earmarks. Not one hundred million. Not a billion. Not even ten billion, but 52 billion dollars per year on Israel alone.

And is that McCain alone? Or the Federal Budget for aid to Isreal? Did McCain ask for that alone by himself placing them inside the budget? Or is that the usual aid we spend on Isreal? See trying to say a Over Seas Budget is a ear mark is just well, sad.

Also saying McCain is a strong supporter/advocate to the State of Isreal and then tying him to the Budget of Isreal is really quite insane. Most of Congress is a strong supporter of Isreal, Obama has even said he is a supporter of the State of Isreal. OMG! OBAMA HAS 52 BILLION DOLLARS IN EAR MARKS!

Even more interesting, in 2001, McCain got himself an approved $500,000 earmark for a small town named Wasilla. If you're not familiar with this city, it happened to be a town in Alaska, with a mayor named (you guessed it) Sarah Palin. It seems that, for her time as mayor, Sarah Palin had gathered a total amount of 27 million dollars for her town.

And you have proof of this?

You would think this town must have desperately needed this to survive, but strangely, Wasilla had received few if any earmarks before Palin became mayor. Of course, it seems that not only was Sarah Palin not against earmarks, but she believed, and i quote her, that "The federal budget, in its various manifestations, is incredibly important to us, and congressional earmarks are one aspect of this relationship." So either Sarah Palin is doing some cliched flip-flopping or she is keeping some secrets from the country she says she's backing.

And lets see where that aid was going to before we start throwing out accusations. Especially since you just tried to make the very insane accusation that Federal Aid to a Country is a ear mark.

Wow, I'm hoping that the last comment there wasn't serious, because if it is, its way off track. Just to make things clear, teachers obviously don't come close to 6 figures.


In 2005 Obama visited the Thorton Township Highschool in South Chicago as explained in his book. The average teacher working at Thorton Township makes 83,000 a year. Some of the teachers in attendence that day made over 100,000 a year. Becuase of this, the school was not able to keep it's teachers for full days. Worse yet the Chicago Teachers Union, a early endorcer of Obama, resist any attempts to increase instruction time. The best that the school has been able to do was increase it by 15 minutes a school day, in exchage of a seven day reduction in the school year.

Any chance for teachers to teach past 5 hours and 45 minutes has been thrawted. Their last contract contained NO new hours, but significant pay raises.

Average starting pays for teachers from elementary to high school is a mere 40,000. Not even halfway to a six figure. Of course, on the other side, the range pay for the top Harvard professors is 115,000.

Actually if we use the Chicago School again, they start out at $43,702 a year, with a $3,059 Employer Pension. If he or she stays for four years they make $57,333 with a $3,992 Pension. As well as a guaranteed raise every year.

Now for the most educated, skilled, and experienced teachers in the Chicago Public School system, they make.... wait for it.... above $100,000 a year.

Lets look at some of the worst of just this one high school.

Name: Allman Esther M
Salary: $105,395
Assignment: English (Grades 9-12 only)

Name: Anderson Paul M
Salary: $106,338
Assignment: Instrumental Music

Name: Beilfuss Bradley R
Salary: $100,476
Assignment: Economics (Grades 9-12 only)

Name: Conry Leo M
Salary: $105,930
Assignment: Spanish

Name: De Veranez Sharon T
Salary: $102,503
Position: Student Dean

Name: Fulton Karen C
Salary: $101,813
Assignment: Learning Behavior Specialist I

Name: Hall Carolyn M
Salary: $106,517
Assignment: Basic and/or General Math

The list goes on and on, man I am in the wrong line of work!

, school boards have concocted ways to make sure that even the good teachers are still in danger to being fired. My mother's a teacher is a teacher, i should know. By the way, she makes 40,000 a year, in prosperous California nonetheless, and has been teaching for 5 years.

Your mother should move to Chicago or any other city in which the Teacher Union has a stranglehold.

I would like to see your proof on this,

Rasmussen came out with the poll today.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...fresh_face_now_more_popular_than_obama_mccain

but true or not, I wouldn't be celebrating that a VP candidate that most people hardly heard of less than a couple weeks ago is more favored than your own candidate for president. (whether we debate on it or not, its pointless to try to debate that very many people were expecting her to be picked, including herself) Of course like i said, I would like to see the proof.

And you got your proof.
 
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