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The Official American Election 2008 Thread

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Kiyohime

Well-Known Member
Yep. The Vice Preident's main duty is to act as a foil for the President, and to act as presiding officer of Senate. A VP must be ready to become President if anything happens to the current commander-in-chief. To date, I believe eight VPs have become president following the death of the former president. (correct me if I'm wrong, please).
 
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BigLutz

Banned
I'd like it to be fully explained to me as to why the vice-president of the United States of America holds next to no power and is the perfect spot for on-the-job training. No offense, but I'd like to say that if you truly believe that, you are talking straight out of your ***.

Because it is the perfect position for on the job training, they hold absolutely no power except to be the tie breaker in the Senate and provide advice to the President if need be, and to cut ribbons. Because of this, it allows the VP to learn the ins and outs of the Government and Administration, and to really study at the foot of the President. Which is where you get that the Vice Presidency is the place for On the Job Training. On the other hand the Presidency is not the place for On the Job Training as you start out from the gate with all the powers and responsibilities of the Presidency.

And it is why a Biden/Obama or Clinton/Obama ticket is a whole lot better than Obama/Biden becuase of Obama's inexperience.
 
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Kiyohime

Well-Known Member
source: http://usconservatives.about.com/od/jackkerwickcommentary/a/Kerwick-29.htm

This is an interesting section of the commentary, in regard to experience:

When it is said of a politician (or anyone, for that matter) that he or she lacks the relevant experience for any given job, what is being said of that person is that he or she lacks knowledge of that job’s demands. That is, those who make the argument from inexperience assume that knowledge is ultimately based on experience, by which is meant habit or practice.

This conception of knowledge is sound, as far as it goes, and it has found support from conservative thinkers from Aristotle to the present: if you want to know -- genuinely know -- what cookery requires, you must know how to cook, and if you want to know what carpentry demands, you must know how to do carpentry. But the only way to know how to be a cook or a carpenter is by practicing cookery and carpentry, respectively. Yet what is true of carpentry and cookery is true of all human activities: knowing is inseparable from and dependent on doing.

Just the slightest reflection on any human practice, from science to mathematics to language use, readily confirms that knowledge is indeed experience. Yet this we seem to either truly forget when we accuse Obama, Palin, or anyone else of being too “inexperienced” to be president, or conveniently ignore so as to score political points.

If, as the argument from “inexperience” itself supposes, knowledge of any given activity can be had only from routinely engaging in that activity, then no one except for a president can really know what being a president requires. In other words, only those who have occupied the office of the presidency can be said to have the requisite “experience” for the job. Thus, in this sense, all of the candidates on both the Democratic and Republican tickets are “inexperienced” vis-à-vis the office of the presidency.

It is precisely because the presidency is such a crucial job that no president is ever without a small army of advisors. The effectiveness of the “3:00 A.M. phone calls to the White House” ads notwithstanding, no president’s decisions are made, or expected to be made, independently of the counsel of numerous others whose jobs exist for the sole purpose of seeing the president along.
 
Wow, only 37 days until the election! This is going to come so soon! It's going to be a tight race. Expect Ohio, Florida, and Colorado to be the deciding factors. Expect repeat situations like Florida 2000. The other swing states will probably go their typical ways.

Nevada - McCain
Michigan - Obama
New Hampshire - Obama
Iowa - Obama
Minnesota - Obama
Missouri - McCain
Virginia - McCain
Pennsylvania - Obama


The electoral vote is going to be close, and I honestly have no clue who is going to win this race. Every time there is a sort of mini-crisis, one or the other gets a big bounce. Obama with this bailout and wallstreet crisis, and McCain with Russia and Georgia. If this bailout thing really does help, and the economy does settle down for a while, then McCain will have the upper hand. I just have no idea on how either will treat this country anymore. Both have clearly shown they have no clue on the economy, McCain has no clue on social issues, Obama no clue on wards and foreign matters. The only + Obama has is health care and low college prices. McCain can do a lot of good for America in the long run and in the standing of the world, helping fight down terrorism. But damn. If anything were to happen to him, and Palin took control? It would be a complete and total disaster.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Well you have to wonder, would the country be any better under Biden? Because I would say Obama has a even bigger chance of dying than even McCain.

If it comes down to Ohio, Colorado, and Florida then that is very bad for Obama. I believe two out of the three of those are Coal Mining States, something Biden has shot Obama in the foot with, and Florida has a substantial Older Population and has been tracking right further and further since 2000.

The bail out is happening and the House Republicans were able to limit some of the damage like the ACORN addition, and the pork, as well as limit the amount of money used to buy assets.

Either way this bail out really limits their hands on what they can do. Obama likes to say how McCain would be a third term of Bush, but with as many limitations that the next Presidency would have with this bail out, Obama would be a third Bush term as well.

Obama wont be stupid enough to pull out of Iraq, something I have continued to say, he wont get us into a war with Pakistan no matter how much he wants to, and he wont be able to implement any real social programs.

The only difference between the two would come down to ear marks and wasteful Government spending. Anything more is out of their reach for the next two years if not more.
 
Well you have to wonder, would the country be any better under Biden? Because I would say Obama has a even bigger chance of dying than even McCain.
Biden would be better than Palin. He's more experienced and we actually know more about him. I rather have him at the top of the ticket. Then again, I rather have Hillary on top of this ticket still.

If it comes down to Ohio, Colorado, and Florida then that is very bad for Obama. I believe two out of the three of those are Coal Mining States, something Biden has shot Obama in the foot with, and Florida has a substantial Older Population and has been tracking right further and further since 2000.
Ohio I do expect to go to McCain. Florida most likely, but Colorado has been becoming more and more Democratic.

Obama wont be stupid enough to pull out of Iraq, something I have continued to say, he wont get us into a war with Pakistan no matter how much he wants to, and he wont be able to implement any real social programs.
I think Obama would pull us out of Iraq sooner than McCain, he just glorifies to make it seem OMG ULTRA SOON LIKE IN TWO DAYS SOON.

The only difference between the two would come down to ear marks and wasteful Government spending. Anything more is out of their reach for the next two years if not more.
That is true. I guess we'll just have to see how things go.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Biden would be better than Palin. He's more experienced and we actually know more about him. I rather have him at the top of the ticket. Then again, I rather have Hillary on top of this ticket still.

In the case of Biden, experience doesn't actually help. His main experience is in Foreign Policy, a place he fails miserably at when you consider his history. From wanting to divide up Iraq into three states, to wanting to send a massive check to Iran so that they will like us. Biden has come up with some of the stupidest Foreign Policy ideas in the last 20 years.


Ohio I do expect to go to McCain. Florida most likely, but Colorado has been becoming more and more Democratic.

I could see Colorado going for Obama, but it is the 7th largest Coal Mining state in the Union, and McCain is going after those in the Coal Industry, while Biden's gaffs have pushed them away from the Obama ticket. In a state that could be close, that could be all the difference.


I think Obama would pull us out of Iraq sooner than McCain, he just glorifies to make it seem OMG ULTRA SOON LIKE IN TWO DAYS SOON.

Eh I could see both of them waiting until they are absolutely sure that Iraq is safe and secure before pulling out. But you are right in that he could do a faster pull out once that happens to try and save face.
 
In the case of Biden, experience doesn't actually help. His main experience is in Foreign Policy, a place he fails miserably at when you consider his history. From wanting to divide up Iraq into three states, to wanting to send a massive check to Iran so that they will like us. Biden has come up with some of the stupidest Foreign Policy ideas in the last 20 years.
Meh, you are right. At least he would be a bit more...comfortable to have than Palin. Definitely more comfortable than Obama.





I could see Colorado going for Obama, but it is the 7th largest Coal Mining state in the Union, and McCain is going after those in the Coal Industry, while Biden's gaffs have pushed them away from the Obama ticket. In a state that could be close, that could be all the difference.
Do you think McCain has a chance with Michigan?



Eh I could see both of them waiting until they are absolutely sure that Iraq is safe and secure before pulling out. But you are right in that he could do a faster pull out once that happens to try and save face.
Agreed.
 

BigLutz

Banned

Harkett

whatisthisidonteven
Obama wont be stupid enough to pull out of Iraq, something I have continued to say, he wont get us into a war with Pakistan no matter how much he wants to, and he wont be able to implement any real social programs.
He obviously will pull out of Iraq, regardless of whether we have a substantial stance there, as he's (essentially) already said, earlier in the campaign. And a war with Pakistan- I dount that as well, but I damn near sure bet that he'll skirt the edge.

I think Obama would pull us out of Iraq sooner than McCain, he just glorifies to make it seem OMG ULTRA SOON LIKE IN TWO DAYS SOON.
Yeah. But why would you want to pull out now, of all times? We've already gone this far, nice waste of American soldiers' lives and trillions of dollars that'd be. We're so close I can taste it. I support staying in just as long as we're nescessarily needed, no longer. It's time they fend for themselves or fall apart after our years of intelligent intervention.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________... EDIT: I'll bet Florida will flub the election again. I believe we'll be a red state (I'm Floridian, and believe it or not under 80) this time around, and- Alright, lemme tell you a local story. In my home county, Palm Beach County, where I reside we had a local election for a judge or something (I didn't vote for either of them- they suck equally) and because of our flawed voting system, 3,600 ballots were mysteriously lost. PAPER BALLOTS! Just went MISSING! After a mandated recount, we were missing just over 3,400. Weeks went by, recounts were approved by the state, and after months, ballots were found in boxes across the large city. At the end, there were 17 ballots past the counted total, and just 19 votes separating the two candidates. State of Florida requires no more than 3 recounts- that result stayed. I'm half-asleep,;sorry for any bad grammar.
 
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Harkett

whatisthisidonteven
Deokishisu, you being verbally in the tank for Osama- erm, Obama- is like Ludacris and Rev. Wright making their endorsements clear-

He probably doesn't want you. But you're a very nice sample from his group of followers, based on your grammar, spelling, conventions, capitalizations, punctuation, generalizations, biases, and uses of unbacked non-factual information.

i liek it i liek it
 

BigLutz

Banned
He obviously will pull out of Iraq, regardless of whether we have a substantial stance there, as he's (essentially) already said, earlier in the campaign. And a war with Pakistan- I dount that as well, but I damn near sure bet that he'll skirt the edge.

What he says and what he does are really two different things. If he leaves Iraq with them not being able to take full control over everything and maintain control over everything that sets Iraq up for a disaster. Lets say he fully pulls out in 16 months? I believe he said that was around the date that he would pull most of the troops out. Well 16 months from January is very close to the mid term elections.

Having a Iraq disaster then would let Republicans scream how Obama's inexperience is causing a disaster in Iraq, snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, etc etc. They tie the Democrats to Obama's decision on that, and you have a reverse 2006 with the Republicans gaining control of both Houses of Congress.

As for Pakistan, he says he will do cross border raids into Pakistan to go after Al Qaeda. While that is admirable, Pakistan in the last few months have shown that they care more about securing their boarders than stopping Al Qaeda within their boarders. If he starts even more raids then we already have Pakistan will become even more aggressive in their attacks on US Troops. And the Pakistani Government will start demanding more and more boarder protection. Meaning even more dead American soldiers returning home.

Eventually if Obama wants to continue these cross boarder raids, while talking about them on National Television, the American troops will have to start killing Pakistani Soldiers.
 

deokishisu.123

Justified Trope
i edited my post for you viewers. happy? ill get the pudding!
 

Ethan

Banned
i edited my post for you viewers. happy? ill get the pudding!

Can't say that I am. Enjoy your one week vacation.

Anyway, what's all this fuss about Sarah Palin being inexperienced? She's only had a few years in major political positions. As an entire political career from being part of the PTA, city council, etc that becomes around 16 years. You don't have to be in such high and prominent offices to be considered experienced. As said before, having the job itself is the only thing that can really show whether your experienced or not. Pointing out that Sarah Palin doesn't cut it because she's not some old fat jerk that's had his head shoved up the asses of the politicians in Washington for 20 something odd years doesn't mean she's not qaulified for the job.
 
Can't say that I am. Enjoy your one week vacation.

Anyway, what's all this fuss about Sarah Palin being inexperienced? She's only had a few years in major political positions. As an entire political career from being part of the PTA, city council, etc that becomes around 16 years. You don't have to be in such high and prominent offices to be considered experienced. As said before, having the job itself is the only thing that can really show whether your experienced or not. Pointing out that Sarah Palin doesn't cut it because she's not some old fat jerk that's had his head shoved up the asses of the politicians in Washington for 20 something odd years doesn't mean she's not qaulified for the job.
...PTA and city council is not near what the qualifications should be. Being part of the PTA and having no foreign policy does not get you ready on handling the economy and dealing with foreign leaders like those of North Korea and Iran.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Well I originally had a post from the NY Post about Community Organizers and how the thugs like Obama ran are connected to the economic problems.

BUT! I think my post should be devoted to the failure of the bail out. To Nancy Pelosi who I want to scream so many horrible names at.

2/3rds of House Republicans voting against isn't a fluke, it isn't a head fake. You Nancy Pelosi had the votes, you had them, the House Republicans had finally agreed, and you do the STUPIDEST thing of all time. You walk up on the day of the vote, and have a very partisan very horrible speech on the House Floor ON THE DAY OF THE VOTE.

Most of the Republicans did not want to vote for it but they reluctantly agreed to do so! And on the very day that they vote, you decide to attack and insult them? What kind of stupidity is that?! Could you not shut your fat mouth for 1 week?

MY GOD I am so ****** at this... I don't think there is a word to describe it.
 
Well I originally had a post from the NY Post about Community Organizers and how the thugs like Obama ran are connected to the economic problems.

BUT! I think my post should be devoted to the failure of the bail out. To Nancy Pelosi who I want to scream so many horrible names at.

2/3rds of House Republicans voting against isn't a fluke, it isn't a head fake. You Nancy Pelosi had the votes, you had them, the House Republicans had finally agreed, and you do the STUPIDEST thing of all time. You walk up on the day of the vote, and have a very partisan very horrible speech on the House Floor ON THE DAY OF THE VOTE.

Most of the Republicans did not want to vote for it but they reluctantly agreed to do so! And on the very day that they vote, you decide to attack and insult them? What kind of stupidity is that?! Could you not shut your fat mouth for 1 week?

MY GOD I am so ****** at this... I don't think there is a word to describe it.
The bailout failing was quite the shock. Obama keeps saying it's going to pass eventually. Where do you think we go from now?
 
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