The Official American Election 2008 Thread

[ForeverFlame]

What's with all of this "experience" nonsense?

Barack Obama may not have been in the Senate for long, but he has a clear idea of what he's doing at the moment. He's brought millions of Americans together who've never bothered to vote before, and that's the boost the Democratic party needs to get the White House.

At the convention they'll give Barack the nomination if he goes in there with the lead that he has now. Whether or not Barack will beat John McCain, I do not know. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if McCain dies before November... All of that stress on an old man like him isn't good at all for his health, and I doubt that he would last all eight years in the White House.

We (or you guys, since I'm not officially American) need somebody youthful who can take on criticism. And he's coping well with Hillary's homocidal blows at the moment.

 

[Carlisle]

I have a feeling John Edwards would gladly give up his family for a chance of being one death away from the Presidency. Especially with as much as he tried to make his wife's cancer a campeign sympathy issue.



I want to say yes, I believe he can be either for one term, or for two years. I'm not sure...

lmfao. A lot of people do say if Obama become president he would be killed. I could see John Edwards liking that idea.

 

[BigLutz]

What's with all of this "experience" nonsense

Well it just kind of shows how poor he would do as a President. Saying things like he would sit down with Iran and Cuba with no conditions, or saying that Genocide is not a reason for keeping the troops in Iraq.

Barack Obama may not have been in the Senate for long, but he has a clear idea of what he's doing at the moment. He's brought millions of Americans together who've never bothered to vote before, and that's the boost the Democratic party needs to get the White House.

In the past, alot of cannidates would try and rely on the Youth vote, just like Obama. There is a term for a Cannidate that relys mainly on the youth vote to get him into office: Loser

At the convention they'll give Barack the nomination if he goes in there with the lead that he has now. Whether or not Barack will beat John McCain, I do not know. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if McCain dies before November... All of that stress on an old man like him isn't good at all for his health, and I doubt that he would last all eight years in the White House.

That is why who he chooses to be the Vice President is so important, becuase who ever it is, could easily be the President four years from now.

 

[Cutiebunny]

Yes! Another topic where Lutz and I share the same opinions.

My big question concerning Obama is this - What the hell is your *position*? I have yet to see a clear and coherent plan come out of the mouth of Obama. Explain to me how you're going to 'change' with clear and concise plans, not just useless rhetoric.

The one thing that really bothers me about both the frontrunners of the Democratic party and McCain is that all three of them seem keen on legalizing the millions of illegal immigrants in the US. Although, I suppose Hillary is waffling on this ; In Nevada in front of lots of illegals, she stated "No woman is illegal", but in front of a group of predominantly white people in North Carolina, she stated that those that break the law need to be deported. I hate to say it, but my vote will be decided on who toughens immigration law. If a mass legalization didn't work for Regan in the 1980s, it definetely won't work now.

 

[Cain Nightroad]

Yes! Another topic where Lutz and I share the same opinions.

My big question concerning Obama is this - What the hell is your *position*? I have yet to see a clear and coherent plan come out of the mouth of Obama. Explain to me how you're going to 'change' with clear and concise plans, not just useless rhetoric.

The one thing that really bothers me about both the frontrunners of the Democratic party and McCain is that all three of them seem keen on legalizing the millions of illegal immigrants in the US. Although, I suppose Hillary is waffling on this ; In Nevada in front of lots of illegals, she stated "No woman is illegal", but in front of a group of predominantly white people in North Carolina, she stated that those that break the law need to be deported. I hate to say it, but my vote will be decided on who toughens immigration law. If a mass legalization didn't work for Regan in the 1980s, it definetely won't work now.

Although I am not for the legalization of illegal immigrants, I must agree with my History teacher in saying that the immigrants are part of the U.S.'s backbone, and make many of the goods produced on the market today. Who else would take the jobs? I suppose that those that break the law do have to face punishment, and then they face more for being illegal immigrants. Deportation isn't the solution, however -- if it is a minor infraction of the law, is that truly necessary? And what will that mean for the families? It is like WWI: the actions of one faction (a terrorist faction, at that) of Serbia ignited the rage of Austria-Hungary, who fought with Serbia. It may be a bit far off, but in a generic sense, the same concept.

 

[Cutiebunny]

Although I am not for the legalization of illegal immigrants, I must agree with my History teacher in saying that the immigrants are part of the U.S.'s backbone, and make many of the goods produced on the market today. Who else would take the jobs? I suppose that those that break the law do have to face punishment, and then they face more for being illegal immigrants. Deportation isn't the solution, however -- if it is a minor infraction of the law, is that truly necessary? And what will that mean for the families? It is like WWI: the actions of one faction (a terrorist faction, at that) of Serbia ignited the rage of Austria-Hungary, who fought with Serbia. It may be a bit far off, but in a generic sense, the same concept.

Your History teacher is clueless.

The only reason that "Americans" don't want to do these jobs is because there is no incentive for them to do it. Increase the salaries. Make them work for their welfare payments. I'm sure you'll see Americans flock to them.

But, as I've brought up in countless topics before, immigrants don't simply stay in the labor division - they take white collar jobs too, especially once they get a green card. Why clean toilets for $2/hour when you can now work in a office for 6 times that?

I think deportation is an excellent solution. It gives people an incentive to stay in their own countries and improve the situation there. We also need to eliminate 'jus soli' and accept the policy that most first world nations have - If you want to be a US citizen at birth, you must have at least one parent who is a US citizen and/or legal permanent resident, and the parent must PROVE this before citizenship is granted.

 

[BigLutz]

Although I am not for the legalization of illegal immigrants, I must agree with my History teacher in saying that the immigrants are part of the U.S.'s backbone, and make many of the goods produced on the market today. Who else would take the jobs? I suppose that those that break the law do have to face punishment, and then they face more for being illegal immigrants. Deportation isn't the solution, however -- if it is a minor infraction of the law, is that truly necessary? And what will that mean for the families? It is like WWI: the actions of one faction (a terrorist faction, at that) of Serbia ignited the rage of Austria-Hungary, who fought with Serbia. It may be a bit far off, but in a generic sense, the same concept.

Well lets not turn this into a Immigration debate, but you are right, Immigrants are the backbone of America.

That being said, those Immigrants are legal, they came here legally, became documented, and became a part of the American fabric.

Illegal Immigrants on the hand have not done that, they spit in the face of those that go through the process, they ship money back to Mexico in the billions, and they cost jobs of those immigrants that came here legally. They do not want to become a part of our society, they demand their rights and equal treatment when they deserve neither. And truely they are breaking the law by just being here.

Everyone wants to be fair to the Illegals, but what about being fair to the legals, who worked hard to get here. Who try their hardest to learn English and be a part of the American Society. How is it fair to them that we give those that have basically broken the law a free pass?

 

[Cain Nightroad]

Okay, I'm going back on topic...

What's with all of this "experience" nonsense?

Barack Obama hasn't been in the political area for long enough to be as good a president as he would be if he was in politics until 2012, then run for the presidency. A good president isn't formed through a few months' or years' worth of training. A good president is shaped over time, using his/her experience in politics and worldly matters as an ally. Obama doesn't have a strong "ally" in terms of experience right now.

We (or you guys, since I'm not officially American) need somebody youthful who can take on criticism. And he's coping well with Hillary's homocidal blows at the moment.

Those who are youthful are usually impulsive, though I see Obama is keeping his cool. My second choice (my first is McCain) is Obama, as the others have some major flaws in their campaigns and platforms at the moment. As I said, a few more years, and he could be a great president.

 

[Carlisle]

Your History teacher is clueless.

The only reason that "Americans" don't want to do these jobs is because there is no incentive for them to do it. Increase the salaries. Make them work for their welfare payments. I'm sure you'll see Americans flock to them.

But, as I've brought up in countless topics before, immigrants don't simply stay in the labor division - they take white collar jobs too, especially once they get a green card. Why clean toilets for $2/hour when you can now work in a office for 6 times that?

I think deportation is an excellent solution. It gives people an incentive to stay in their own countries and improve the situation there. We also need to eliminate 'jus soli' and accept the policy that most first world nations have - If you want to be a US citizen at birth, you must have at least one parent who is a US citizen and/or legal permanent resident, and the parent must PROVE this before citizenship is granted.

Only, you know, deportation isn't very logical and it's never going to happen.

 

[Lucas!]

Your History teacher is clueless.

The only reason that "Americans" don't want to do these jobs is because there is no incentive for them to do it. Increase the salaries. Make them work for their welfare payments. I'm sure you'll see Americans flock to them.

But, as I've brought up in countless topics before, immigrants don't simply stay in the labor division - they take white collar jobs too, especially once they get a green card. Why clean toilets for $2/hour when you can now work in a office for 6 times that?

I think deportation is an excellent solution. It gives people an incentive to stay in their own countries and improve the situation there. We also need to eliminate 'jus soli' and accept the policy that most first world nations have - If you want to be a US citizen at birth, you must have at least one parent who is a US citizen and/or legal permanent resident, and the parent must PROVE this before citizenship is granted.

This is not going to happen. Deportation is not a solution. It is just going to make them try even harder to get into the country. I do not even see the reason to bring up Deportation. The immigrants are not causing any problems.

 

[BigLutz]

Only, you know, deportation isn't very logical and it's never going to happen.

No one is saying to scoop them all up in one night. Yet if you inforce the law on everyone that breaks the law, and check their identification. Have raids on workplaces that hire illegals, and just overall enforce the Immigration law. You can cut down on the Illegals by millions in the first few years.

This is not going to happen. Deportation is not a solution. It is just going to make them try even harder to get into the country. I do not even see the reason to bring up Deportation. The immigrants are not causing any problems.

First you will have to have a wall on the border before you deport them so that they cannot get back over.

As for causing problems. They are sending back billions of dollars of American money to Mexico each year. Billions that are taken out of circulation and taken out of American hands. I would say that is causing a problem.

 

[Cain Nightroad]

As for causing problems. They are sending back billions of dollars of American money to Mexico each year. Billions that are taken out of circulation and taken out of American hands. I would say that is causing a problem.

Yes, and the solution is not found in deportation. Instead, there should be some kind of limitation on the money sent back to another country each week or month. This could help solve the problem, but wouldn't be an indefinite solution. However, I would like to see some of the candidates bring up their opinions on this statement. It would be interesting, and could help boost their campaign status.

 

[Profesco]

@Babylon: Those pictures are rude! (At least if you're not posting any of the other candidates along side them.) You want a harpoon, I'll harpoon you gladly!

Babylon asked me once why he doesn't see me posting in political topics. It's pretty much because, compared to the rest of you apparently, I don't know enough about economy/policy/etc. I watch and learn before I make a fool of myself...

Anyway, I support Hillary adamantly. And I CAN vote, nyah! As has been said, she's the most likely of the frontrunners to penalize the illegal immigrants properly. That needs to be handled well, and fairly. (No need to include my personal views.)

In the realm of experience, Barack simply hasn't had to deal with the pressures of the White House. He hasn't learned as much as Hillary has. For that matter, McCain is a former POW- I feel for him, to have survived that- but that doesn't automatically translate into presidential ability. Hillary has participated in that arena, and has learned from that participation. That's why her campaigners say, "She can make government work." And after all, that is EXACTLY what we need- someone who can use the infathomable machinery of the gov't to achieve a meaningful end. Under Bush, gov't has gone a little wacky, like a lazy eye...

About Bill being a poor president- I thought the economy did well while we had him? And didn't he have a good support rating across the board, at least before the affair? Eh, that doesn't have anything to do with Hillary anyway, just asking.

As for Hillary not divorcing Bill after his affair, that shows considerable emotional strength and perhaps compassion- a refutation to all those who say she's robotic. Not to mention it shows she can handle stress and clean up humiliating disasters well- ANOTHER thing we need after Bush. And the crying thing recently: well, there's no valid reason to think it was manipulation or deceit. And if Hillary shows emotion, isn't that what the 'she's a robot!' people wanted? Anyway, it's wanton practice to attack anybody simply for having emotions.

Now for you "I get a bad vibe from her" people. I don't need to tell you that that's a ridiculous notion to base such an important decision on. Whatever you feel does not make the object of those feelings conform to them. Certainly, Barney the dinosaur feels creepy to a good amount of people, but that doesn't MAKE him any worse or any better.

In the end, I actually like many of Barack's and McCain's positions- they're both good guys. It just appears that Hillary has the experience, and more importantly, the ability to fix the US government, including economy and foreign reputation.

If I wanted to argue feelings about the candidates, I could say Barack seems cool and effervescent, and McCain is stalwart and hardy. And Hillary seems reliable and smart. I would place my trust in Hillary's capable-ness.

 

[BigLutz]

@Hillary has participated in that arena, and has learned from that participation. That's why her campaigners say, "She can make government work." And after all, that is EXACTLY what we need- someone who can use the infathomable machinery of the gov't to achieve a meaningful end. Under Bush, gov't has gone a little wacky, like a lazy eye...

But she hasnt seriously participated in the Presidential Arena, when it came to the White House, being First Lady was a full time job and then some. She didn't have time to hang over the oval office and watch what Bill was doing.

About Bill being a poor president- I thought the economy did well while we had him? And didn't he have a good support rating across the board, at least before the affair? Eh, that doesn't have anything to do with Hillary anyway, just asking.

Bill had nothing to do with the Economy, the .Com Bubble and Consumer Confidence that the good times would last was what created a good economy. If anything Bill's tax hikes did more to hurt the economy than anything else becuase the Bubble Popped and the Tax Hikes weren't helping.

As for Hillary not divorcing Bill after his affair, that shows considerable emotional strength and perhaps compassion- a refutation to all those who say she's robotic.

Or it shows a cunning mind. She is running on the Clinton name, just being Hillary Roddam wouldn't help her when she decided to run for the Presidency. If she had any chance of becoming President she needed Bill.

Not to mention it shows she can handle stress and clean up humiliating disasters well- ANOTHER thing we need after Bush.

Seeing how Bush has been tested more than any President since Lincoln when it comes to disasters. From 9/11, to the War in Afghanistan, to the War in Iraq, to the destruction of a Space Shuttle, to New Orleans being hit by Katrina and the hell that followed there, to the Economic fall out of the housing bubble.

Bush has done pretty well under pressure, seeing how he has had a insane amount of pressure on him with a disaster in almost every year of his presidency.

And the crying thing recently: well, there's no valid reason to think it was manipulation or deceit. And if Hillary shows emotion, isn't that what the 'she's a robot!' people wanted? Anyway, it's wanton practice to attack anybody simply for having emotions.

The other excuse could be that if you are going to cry becuase of the stress of just campeigning for Presidency. How the hell are you going to hold up in the actual office which is a whole lot more stressful.

 

[Mini Minun]

Yes, and the solution is not found in deportation. Instead, there should be some kind of limitation on the money sent back to another country each week or month. This could help solve the problem, but wouldn't be an indefinite solution. However, I would like to see some of the candidates bring up their opinions on this statement. It would be interesting, and could help boost their campaign status.

That would be a complete waste of time and effort actually debating on the law. You mean if someone went to the UK, say, to study, the person could not receive enough money to live.

And, yes, although I'm not an American, I do not support Obama. He is clearly lacking in experience. Now, what with the recession, what's needed is some tried & tested leadership and innovation. That said, because Hilary is campaigning for "Change we can Believe in," I support Hilary more than Obama. I never even heard of Obama before he came into this presidential election. We are talking about a one-term senator. Even Truman, who had the least experience before coming into the Presidency, at least had two terms as County Judge and Senator, and then the vice Presidency before he became the President.

 

[The_Panda]

What is funny is that the time when Congress and the White house were completely at eachother, near the end of the Clinton administration, and when no laws were passed and the government effectively paralysed, the economy soared.

Lesson of the day: don't get governments meddle too much with the economy.

 

[Lucas!]

First you will have to have a wall on the border before you deport them so that they cannot get back over.

As for causing problems. They are sending back billions of dollars of American money to Mexico each year. Billions that are taken out of circulation and taken out of American hands. I would say that is causing a problem.

They will find a way back in. Don't count on a wall to try and keep them out.


Who told you that rubbish? Billions of dollars my ***. Even if it was true it doesn't matter we produce enough money each year so that billions of dollars means nothing. We can produce more.

 

[Rensch]

The American presidential election remains a somewhat mysterious thing to many of us Europeans. Primaries, delegates, Super Tuesday. I had to look some of that stuff up on the internet.

But since I'm a lot more informed now, I think I prefer Barack Obama. Not only do I share his opinions on issues such as health care and Iraq, he also has a lot of charisma, which I think is important to unite the American people. Bill Clinton had that too. Hillary does indeed have a lot more experience, especially when it comes to foreign policies. I don't think that is much of a problem though, because even here on the other side of the ocean people are very enthousiastic about Obama. I think he can properly represent America as president.

 

[Carlisle]

The American presidential election remains a somewhat mysterious thing to many of us Europeans. Primaries, delegates, Super Tuesday. I had to look some of that stuff up on the internet.

But since I'm a lot more informed now, I think I prefer Barack Obama. Not only do I share his opinions on issues such as health care and Iraq, he also has a lot of charisma, which I think is important to unite the American people. Bill Clinton had that too. Hillary does indeed have a lot more experience, especially when it comes to foreign policies. I don't think that is much of a problem though, because even here on the other side of the ocean people are very enthousiastic about Obama. I think he can properly represent America as president.

So. Charisma > Experience.

Yep. Obama will just be another disaster like Carter.

 

[Rensch]

I never said charisma is experience. I just said his appeal can make him a strong leader when dealing with foreign leaders. I have to admit I'm not yet convinced if he can deal with internal affairs.