The Official SPP Football Thread - 2009-2010

[Night_Walker]

wat

I haven't heard anything about Wolves being denied a penalty, I only saw Blackburn's.

There was a balant handball in the box, the Portsmouth player actually dipped his upper arm into the ball's path. The ref was behind him and couldn't see it and the linesman's view was impeded by a Wolves player... But it should have been a penalty.

And yeah, Sepp Blatter needs to stop being butthurt and install video referee systems.

Yep, the game already has a system in place to make up for lost time so what does it matter if it takes a while so long as the decisions are correct?!
Plus for stuff like Offside if we have a video linesman in place with access to plenty of cameras on the sides of the field and such he can instantly call an offside.

Anyway, Man City and Villa should be a good match, can't wait for that.

Fascinating game it could be.

 

[King Of Steel]

Well, whaddya' know, Richard Dunne scoring against his former club. And City start dropping points for the first time since the loss against United.

 

[Mayziken]

I want Alonso beck to Liverpool!!!! We are missing something without him. It was just stupied of use to let him go

CL points:
Mayziken: 18

 

[King Lawliet]

Well that and Vermaelen

I want Alonso beck to Liverpool!!!! We are missing something without him. It was just stupied of use to let him go

Best move ever. For Arsenal, Man U and Chelsea that is

 

[~-Overheat-~]

Alonso will be as important to Real Madrid as Kaka and Ronaldo who have taken up most of the spotlight, if not all not all of it. Alonso keeps the team complete. He is the 'shining jewel' at the center of the team.

 

[Void]

Alonso will be as important to Real Madrid as Kaka and Ronaldo who have taken up most of the spotlight, if not all not all of it. Alonso keeps the team complete. He is the 'shining jewel' at the center of the team.

Meh, Real Madrid didn't need him. He would have been better off staying at Liverpool. They might have even avoided this terrible start to the season if he had stayed. I hope he somehow returns during one of the next transfer windows.

However, being more optimistic, Aquilani seems to be close to making his debut for Liverpool. I'd like to see if he can make a difference.

 

[Suica]

[img200]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46492000/jpg/_46492476_miller_celeb2466.jpg[/img200]​

Lovely win for the men in blue on derby day in Glasgow. I really did not know what to expect against a Celtic side that were looking stronger w/ every match combined w/ us looking weak when compared to them. Pleasant surprise. Ppl will talk a lot about Celtic's defending on both Rangers goals but Kenny Miller has to get credit for being clinical on both finishes. The defense needs to get credit for holding the fort too. Overall a good win.

Idk what ppl are saying about Real not being able to play w/o Ronaldo. He takes so many chances and creates so little for the rest of his team. It's not like they don't have a world class squad w/o him in the lineup. Considering that Sevilla was on fire and Real hadn't done well the last few times they'd played at Sevilla I wasn't surprised by the result. There are still a lot of problems in the Madrid team even after what everyone says about the summer spending.

Alonso was a good move for Madrid but he's not the miracle worker some ppl might be saying he is. The front four don't track back a lot and the defense is still way shaky. So the 4231 Madrid play looks more like a 64 and they don't get the right attacking tempo when they get the ball back. Which means they have to huck it upfield and can only really counterattack. Alonso won't fix that all by himself either. Imo Granero is better at keeping team balance.

Idk how I feel about using video to help w/ refereeing. The first problem is FIFA's rule that the ref can't make calls based on what he sees elsewhere. Not only that but it just doesn't work w/ the game. Football is supposed to flow and if games have to be stopped b/c of calls then that could really disrupt things. I think a half solution would be to use those balls w/ chips built in so that you can tell when the ball's gone out of bounds/over the goal line/etc.

 

[Thunder Giant]

Idk how I feel about using video to help w/ refereeing. The first problem is FIFA's rule that the ref can't make calls based on what he sees elsewhere. Not only that but it just doesn't work w/ the game. Football is supposed to flow and if games have to be stopped b/c of calls then that could really disrupt things. I think a half solution would be to use those balls w/ chips built in so that you can tell when the ball's gone out of bounds/over the goal line/etc.

Thats why video refereing is such a controversial thing. Somone brought up the point that a challenge system like in Tennis could be used (I think it was Wenger, but I can't remember). The problem is though, is that something like that could be abused for the wrong purposes. Take a look at this scenario-

Team A is attacking Team B's goal. A player from Team A takes a shot at goal, it deflects off a Tea B player, and the ball lands infront of a team B player who starts a counter-attack. Just as that Team B player pasts the half-way line, and it is three players against two (this happends approximatley 5 seconds after team B startes the counter attack). Team B really look like that they are going to score. So, just as Team bpast the halfeay line, the coach of team A makes a challenge, to say that the shot deflected off that team B player's arm. But, everyone could see that it didn't, but the coach of team A made the challenge to stop the counter-attack from team B, as whenever a challenge is made, play has to stop. So even though he knew he would be wrong, he made the challenge to stop the counter-attack, so his team wouldn't conceede.

For those who do not understand what I mean by challenge, I have based it off the tennis system. It is where if the ball has bounced in/out, and the ref has said that the ball was in/out, BUT, you do not agree with them. So what happens is a birds-eye view computerisation of the where the ball bounced is played, and from that we can see whether the ball bounced in or out. Sometimes the ref is wrong, sometimes they are not.

So if a video refereeing system with challenging is to be used, then FIFA have to limit the power of it, which means that they will have to use limites on it.
1. Limit the amount of challenges a coach can use per game
2. Can only make challenges when the ball is out of play

If challenges will not be used, then there will have to be a third-umpire (from criket) thing, and that will destroy the flow of the game.

However, being more optimistic, Aquilani seems to be close to making his debut for Liverpool. I'd like to see if he can make a difference.

He should be able to. He is a good player, but over the past few seasons, he has been quite injury prone. Another concering bit of information, is that he is moving from Serie A to the EPL, which means he has to get used to the sudden increase in pace. So in his first couple of games I do not think he will perform that well, as he will need to get used to the pace, and strength as well. Hopefully, though, is whether he will actually be able to ajust, and not do a 'dossena'.

Anyway, Berlusconi has a 750mil fine handed to his company that controls Milan, finivest. Interesting to see what will happen there.

Milan drew with a 10-man atalanta, who are last on the ladder. Shame

Serie A points from past two rounds:
TG: 19+28 (45)

Predictions:
EPL
Saturday 17th October
Aston Villa 2-3 Chelsea
Arsenal 4-1 Birmingham City
Stoke 1-2 West Ham
Portsmouth 1-2 Tottenham
Everton 2-2 Wolves
Manchester United 3-1 Bolton
Sunderland 2-4 Liverpool (Aquilani debut hattrick!!!)

Sunday 18th October
Blackburn 1-1 Burnley
Wigan 1-3 Manchester City

Monday 19th October
Fulham 2-1 Hull

 

[Night_Walker]

Thats why video refereing is such a controversial thing. Somone brought up the point that a challenge system like in Tennis could be used (I think it was Wenger, but I can't remember). The problem is though, is that something like that could be abused for the wrong purposes. Take a look at this scenario-

Team A is attacking Team B's goal. A player from Team A takes a shot at goal, it deflects off a Tea B player, and the ball lands infront of a team B player who starts a counter-attack. Just as that Team B player pasts the half-way line, and it is three players against two (this happends approximatley 5 seconds after team B startes the counter attack). Team B really look like that they are going to score. So, just as Team bpast the halfeay line, the coach of team A makes a challenge, to say that the shot deflected off that team B player's arm. But, everyone could see that it didn't, but the coach of team A made the challenge to stop the counter-attack from team B, as whenever a challenge is made, play has to stop. So even though he knew he would be wrong, he made the challenge to stop the counter-attack, so his team wouldn't conceede.

For those who do not understand what I mean by challenge, I have based it off the tennis system. It is where if the ball has bounced in/out, and the ref has said that the ball was in/out, BUT, you do not agree with them. So what happens is a birds-eye view computerisation of the where the ball bounced is played, and from that we can see whether the ball bounced in or out. Sometimes the ref is wrong, sometimes they are not.

So if a video refereeing system with challenging is to be used, then FIFA have to limit the power of it, which means that they will have to use limites on it.
1. Limit the amount of challenges a coach can use per game
2. Can only make challenges when the ball is out of play

If challenges will not be used, then there will have to be a third-umpire (from criket) thing, and that will destroy the flow of the game.

Let's just look at it like this: We have a video-linesman who signals offsides, via the big screen with lots of cameras that allow him to get a much better idea of if someone is offside.
Things like handball appeals that the referee isn't sure about (because like every opponent player is calling "handball" but the ref couldn't see it) can be reviewed when the ball goes out of play as the camera feed can be reviewed in a matter of seconds.

As far as the flow of the game, we already have stoppage time so that won't be a big issue at all. Surely it's important to get the decisions right.

 

[~-Overheat-~]

I think football decisions should be like in cricket. If the referee thinks the decision is tough, he could contact the officials who would then use video references and make the decision. Its the referee's choice whether he'll ask for it, so he'll still be in control.

 

[Suica]

As far as the flow of the game, we already have stoppage time so that won't be a big issue at all. Surely it's important to get the decisions right.

Of course it is. But that doesn't have anything to do w/ disrupting the flow of the game. If someone gets injured/fouled then fine. That can't be avoided. Those delays already take up a lot of time in football. And the last thing that needs to happen is a game getting delayed because the officials need to look over something.

Stoppage time doesn't exactly mean much in terms of flow. You get time back but it's not the same as if time kept going on when you were playing w/ good tempo and controlling the game. See what I mean?

 

[Thunder Giant]

Let's just look at it like this: We have a video-linesman who signals offsides, via the big screen with lots of cameras that allow him to get a much better idea of if someone is offside.
Things like handball appeals that the referee isn't sure about (because like every opponent player is calling "handball" but the ref couldn't see it) can be reviewed when the ball goes out of play as the camera feed can be reviewed in a matter of seconds.

As far as the flow of the game, we already have stoppage time so that won't be a big issue at all. Surely it's important to get the decisions right.

I think football decisions should be like in cricket. If the referee thinks the decision is tough, he could contact the officials who would then use video references and make the decision. Its the referee's choice whether he'll ask for it, so he'll still be in control.

Of course it is. But that doesn't have anything to do w/ disrupting the flow of the game. If someone gets injured/fouled then fine. That can't be avoided. Those delays already take up a lot of time in football. And the last thing that needs to happen is a game getting delayed because the officials need to look over something.

Stoppage time doesn't exactly mean much in terms of flow. You get time back but it's not the same as if time kept going on when you were playing w/ good tempo and controlling the game. See what I mean?

All very good points. I like the idea of a video linesman, but, he will have to have looking at the screen(s) constantly to be able to call offside, etc. I also like the idea of the third umpire from cricket.

As for the flow of the game, this third umpire style would only happen when the ref calls for it. The thing is (Well in Serie A at least ) when a ref gives a penalty or a red card, the players end up winging at the ref for at least a minute, and that would give a 'third ref' (for 5th Ref in football's case) enough time to review the footage for a more accurate descision.

No matter what happens though, any video reffing will hamper the flow of the game in some way and to some extent. Its now a matter of whether we want correct desicions, or a game that flows.

I'm a bit more leaned to the flow, because when Milan a drawing 0-0, and we get a penalty from a wrong descion, then I'm not complaining .

 

[Night_Walker]

All very good points. I like the idea of a video linesman, but, he will have to have looking at the screen(s) constantly to be able to call offside, etc. I also like the idea of the third umpire from cricket.

Well isn't that what the Linesmen are actually supposed to do now?
Could have a couple of the guys in the booth watching separate ends of the field with plenty of cameras so they can tell if someone is offside.

As for the flow of the game, this third umpire style would only happen when the ref calls for it. The thing is (Well in Serie A at least ) when a ref gives a penalty or a red card, the players end up winging at the ref for at least a minute, and that would give a 'third ref' (for 5th Ref in football's case) enough time to review the footage for a more accurate descision.

No matter what happens though, any video reffing will hamper the flow of the game in some way and to some extent. Its now a matter of whether we want correct desicions, or a game that flows.

I'm a bit more leaned to the flow, because when Milan a drawing 0-0, and we get a penalty from a wrong descion, then I'm not complaining .

I think that the idea of the "flow" is just an excuse used by various bodies, in various sports, who don't want to actually invest in technology.

We have it, every so often it makes refs look stupid. We wouldn't have people calling for it every single time some player gets felled. That's talking about taking it to extremes not treating it with common sense.

And let's face it, when someone fells another person badly enough for a straight red, or even some of the yellows we see, that stops the game dead in it's tracks anway.

Heh well while it can be good for you when it goes your way wouldn't you howl if your team lost cause the referee awards the other team a penalty they shouldn't have got? Surely it's better if all the decisions, or at least as many as possible, are the correct ones.

 

[~-Overheat-~]

Lets move on to Fergusons recent break-up with ref Alan Wiley. Oh and this:

Originally commented by Sir Alex Ferguson
If you ask me to start commenting on a case which is in front of a court and I did, you would think, 'this guy has lost his marbles'.

 

[Sharpshooter]

Bookies seem to think it's a 2 horse race now. Liverpool and Arsenal are drifting at 6/1-8/1.

 

[Thunder Giant]

Serie A predictions-
UK Juventus 2-2 Fiorentina
10/17 19:45 UK Genoa 3-2 Internazionale
10/18 14:00 UK Lazio 2-1 Sampdoria
10/18 14:00 UK Catania 0-0 Cagliari
10/18 14:00 UK Livorno 0-2 Palermo
10/18 14:00 UK Napoli 3-0 Bologna
10/18 14:00 UK Chievo Verona 1-1 Bari
10/18 14:00 UK Udinese 3-0 Atalanta
10/18 14:00 UK Parma 2-1 Siena
10/18 19:45 UK AC Milan 2-1 AS Roma

 

[Master Blastoise]

Saturday October 17
Aston Villa 1-3 Chelsea
Arsenal 4-0 Birmingham City
Everton 2-0 Wolves
Manchester United 3-0 Bolton
Portsmouth 1-3 Tottenham
Stoke 1-1 West Ham
Sunderland 2-1 Liverpool

Sunday October 18
Blackburn 1-0 Burnley
Wigan 1-3 Manchester City

Monday October 19
Fulham 2-0 Hull

Edit: Just wanted to say we didn't get the EPL points last time.

 

[Night_Walker]

Awesome job by Aston

Although it should have been 3-1 to Aston, cause there was a double offence committed on one of them in the box; was being held at the arm, and then the Chelsea defender just about kicked him in the abdomen trying to get the ball away...

Still Aston have arrived

Liverpool vs Sunderland... What in the holy heck was that!
I cannot understand how that ball was allowed to remain on the field, okay some of that is pry the fault of the Liverpool goalie and defenders (assuming they had time between it being thrown on and the attack on goal starting) but the ref or linesman should have called play to a halt to get the darn thing off the field.

Surprised Bolton got off with just a 1 goal defeat against Man Utd.

Tottenham were very lucky - great goal keeping saved them. I wanna know what was going through the mind of player who got red carded when he stomped on the other player right in front of the ref...
Not that there's any place for stomping on someone in the game, even when the ref's back is turned.

Arsenal - not unexpected but I'd have loved to see Birmingham pull the upset with a draw.

Everton - lucky escape against Wolves, who've probably played a lot better then their standing and results would imply.

Interesting matches coming up tonight

 

[King Of Steel]

Admirable fight by Birmingham but frankly, an upset was impossible, given that Arsenal got into their stride again by the 70th minute. Arshavin was once more quality and he showed why. Great running at the defenders and what a finish.

 

[Void]

How did the ref allow Sunderland's goal? It was clearly going straight towards Reina before it cannoned off the balloon / beach ball / whatever that was.