The Official WWE/AEW Thread, Brother!

[Hunter Zolomon]

Normally I'd say a gimmick match like TLC or an Inferno match but those arent much of a thing anymore.

I say Taker vs HBK WM25. Probably the best 1v1 pure wrestling match.

That match was incredible. I actually thought HBK was going to be the one to break the streak, honestly.

 

[celestial phantom]

New question, if you had to show a person whose never watched pro wrestling before one single match to show them what pro wrestling is and to make them a fan, what match would you choose and why?

There's a lot of matches I can think of, so it'd be tough for me to say. In a bygone era, Steamboat vs Savage, a lot of Flair matches, Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper @ Mania 8 is a personal favorite of mine, though not the best worked. A lot of stuff from the Attitude Era would get a spot light, Mania Ladder match between the Hardy's, Dudleyz, and E&C, Rock vs Austin (any of their 3 mania matches), Taker vs HBK (1st HITC), Mankind vs Taker (HITC match), Triple H vs Austin (3 stages of hell). I don't think those would really work, given how the expectations would be so high, and the real fact we don't get the level of those any more with a personal investment.

If I would go recently (or within the last 10 years), I have like 4 matches I would tell someone to watch.

1. HBK vs Undertaker (1st Mania match)
2. HBK vs Kurt Angle (Mania 21)
3. CM Punk vs John Cena (MITB 2011)
4. Daniel Bryan vs John Cena (Summerslam 2013)

If I have to choose one, it'd be HBK vs Kurt Angle. Angle was in his prime still, HBK was barely pushing 40, but it's one of these match ups in a generation you would only dream of until it happened. If I recall it was also a cross brand match up between Raw and SD, thanks to HBK eliminating Angle from the rumble, and Angle in turn costing HBK the match. Just an awesome pure wrestling match, and it was different than what we expected from both men (HBK going for a ground game instead of speed, and Angle in turn playing some high risk a few times as HBK chain wrestled around him). It was a fun match, an entertaining match, a wrestling match, and it was a set up for why having two strong separate brands worked in creating buzz for the WWE.

 

[finnbalor27]

If I had to show them a single match, I would choose any of the Shield vs. either the Wyatt Family at Elimination Chamber 2014 or Shield vs. Evolution from either of the two PPVs they were on. The Shield was a great addition to any PPV they were on, and together, they worked magic. If you want a 1 v. 1 match, I would choose a certain wrestler whose name sounds vaguely like GM Junk against John Cena at MITB '11. Masterpiece.

 

[Laser Shuckle]

You know things are sad when you're in a feud with Lesnar and he's the only one who's showing up... The guy who everyone complained about not appearing live is the more ubiquitous wrestler here. That's depressing. Sure all Brock does is just stand there but still, Undertaker should just retire if all he's going to do is no-show nearly everything until the PPV and coast off his name. I'd rather he just hang up his boots than go out like this.

 

[Platinum fan.]

You know things are sad when you're in a feud with Lesnar and he's the only one who's showing up... The guy who everyone complained about not appearing live is the more ubiquitous wrestler here. That's depressing. Sure all Brock does is just stand there but still, Undertaker should just retire if all he's going to do is no-show nearly everything until the PPV and coast off his name. I'd rather he just hang up his boots than go out like this.

I have to agree. It's looking more and more like Lesnar is going to have to carry this feud, and he isn't there every week either, but apparently he'll be here more then Taker. I am a fan of the Undertaker, but at this point enough is enough. Taker is old and should not be in the ring with Lesnar. I mean do we really expect to see Brock Lesnar suplex the Undertaker 15 times at his age? Lesnar will have to go easy. The Brawl on RAW a few weeks ago was still great, but now that it's over I'm starting to remember why I don't want this feud again. Brock Lesnar also has to win. He ended the streak. The guy to get the rub off that should not be the Undertaker himself because then what was the point if Undertaker gets his win back? This is just looking to be a lose/lose situation for me.

Edit: Also, R.I.P. Legendary Rowdy Piper. Much like Dustin Rhodes, he was before my time as a Wrestling fan. I would first see him in his 2003 run. You know when he pulled off Zach Gowen's leg and had that mini feud with Chris Jericho over their shows. Pipers Pit vs Highlight Reel. It wasn't a real feud but it always made me smile when they jabbed each others show. It's sad to see another Legendary Wrestler go. Even though I missed his prime era, I enjoyed him when I first saw him. He will be missed.

 

[ger9119]

You know things are sad when you're in a feud with Lesnar and he's the only one who's showing up... The guy who everyone complained about not appearing live is the more ubiquitous wrestler here. That's depressing. Sure all Brock does is just stand there but still, Undertaker should just retire if all he's going to do is no-show nearly everything until the PPV and coast off his name. I'd rather he just hang up his boots than go out like this.

I agree, after the great brawl segment i figured they would not be on the next week which makes sense but now all the momentum is gone from that after a second week without Taker, if he's hell bent on destroying Lesnar wouldn't he be there every time Brock is. Heyman/Lesnar promo from Monday was great but without Taker there it didn't matter much even if they did a titantron thing with Taker or have him try one of his mind game tricks he normally does in feuds. I don't think he's coasting off his name, and if he is so what the guy has been around for the past twenty years he's earned the right to come and go as he pleases but for this angle he needs to be around as much as possible.This is Taker's final run he has Summerslam, maybe Survivor Series and then Wrestlemania and he's done after that. I'm enjoying it for what it is, but I wish there was more to this feud I feel like they slowed the momentum down for they wouldn't have to book it into a violent match like Hell In A Cell.

Plat, you're making it seem like Taker is totally washed up their Mania match sucked because Taker got concussed early on which could happen to anyone. He's one of the top five workers in all of pro wrestling the last twenty years, if he is washed up he's still a lot better than most of the roster he's like Jushin Liger he's not as good as he once was but he's still better than the majority of people in wrestling. I think Lesnar wins but in a really close match, and if he doesn't it won't hurt his character since they've booked Taker as his equal even in the Wrestlemania feud. Lesnar's character is at a point where his credibility can't go down at all, he's still a beast so if Taker beats him he's still a beast. If Taker gets his win back it builds to his final match at Wrestlemania which is going to be the most important match on the card so he has to come out of Summerslam looking strong so win or lose it's not going to be Taker getting no offense in and getting suplexed 15 times.

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I though Raw was pretty good, Neville/Rollins was off the charts and showcased both guys well mainly Neville looking like he won the title on two different occasions and I liked the segment with Owens/Cesaro. I felt the heels should've won the main event or atleast got DQ'ed, It feels like Smackdown is the show where the heels pick up wins and have the advantage in feuds while Raw is dominated by the faces. The divas had two solid match and progressed their feud well, Rusev is clearly being built up for a Summerslam win over Ziggler, the tag team title feud is okay hopefully New Day gets the belts back as they are pretty over as heels and PTP hasn't really gained any momentum since winning the belts and there's whatever they are doing with BNB but who cares he's boring. The main event was good, all three guys are soundly over with the fans and the action was high paced and exciting in the end.

 

[Platinum fan.]

I agree, after the great brawl segment i figured they would not be on the next week which makes sense but now all the momentum is gone from that after a second week without Taker, if he's hell bent on destroying Lesnar wouldn't he be there every time Brock is. Heyman/Lesnar promo from Monday was great but without Taker there it didn't matter much even if they did a titantron thing with Taker or have him try one of his mind game tricks he normally does in feuds. I don't think he's coasting off his name, and if he is so what the guy has been around for the past twenty years he's earned the right to come and go as he pleases but for this angle he needs to be around as much as possible.This is Taker's final run he has Summerslam, maybe Survivor Series and then Wrestlemania and he's done after that. I'm enjoying it for what it is, but I wish there was more to this feud I feel like they slowed the momentum down for they wouldn't have to book it into a violent match like Hell In A Cell.

Plat, you're making it seem like Taker is totally washed up their Mania match sucked because Taker got concussed early on which could happen to anyone. He's one of the top five workers in all of pro wrestling the last twenty years, if he is washed up he's still a lot better than most of the roster he's like Jushin Liger he's not as good as he once was but he's still better than the majority of people in wrestling. I think Lesnar wins but in a really close match, and if he doesn't it won't hurt his character since they've booked Taker as his equal even in the Wrestlemania feud. Lesnar's character is at a point where his credibility can't go down at all, he's still a beast so if Taker beats him he's still a beast. If Taker gets his win back it builds to his final match at Wrestlemania which is going to be the most important match on the card so he has to come out of Summerslam looking strong so win or lose it's not going to be Taker getting no offense in and getting suplexed 15 times.

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I though Raw was pretty good, Neville/Rollins was off the charts and showcased both guys well mainly Neville looking like he won the title on two different occasions and I liked the segment with Owens/Cesaro. I felt the heels should've won the main event or atleast got DQ'ed, It feels like Smackdown is the show where the heels pick up wins and have the advantage in feuds while Raw is dominated by the faces. The divas had two solid match and progressed their feud well, Rusev is clearly being built up for a Summerslam win over Ziggler, the tag team title feud is okay hopefully New Day gets the belts back as they are pretty over as heels and PTP hasn't really gained any momentum since winning the belts and there's whatever they are doing with BNB but who cares he's boring. The main event was good, all three guys are soundly over with the fans and the action was high paced and exciting in the end.

If Undertaker gets the win back without Lesnar putting over a new guy first then what was the point of ending the streak? They should have just had Undertaker beat Lesnar at Wrestlemania 30 then. They're just doing this to get hype for Summerslam. I'm almost starting to wish Roman Reigns or Seth Rollins had beaten Lesnar at mania 30. Because then one of them could have gotten the rub of slaying the beast instead of Undertaker who's about to retire. I like Undertaker, do not make the mistake and think I don't like him. But this is another reason why WWE has no new stars. People get on John Cena's back for "burying" Kevin Owns and not putting him over. Yet they seem fine if Undertaker gets the win back from Brock Lesnar instead of the future top guys doing it. If Lesnar had put over Reigns or Rollins at mania 30 I would have no problem with Undertaker getting his win back. But until then Lesnar should not lose to anyone clean until they are finally ready to get a new main event guy in the picture. That's how I feel on the matter.

 

[ger9119]

But they do have new stars, the majority of their roster is new stars and the majority of feuds is new stars, Lesnar put over Reigns in that match at Wrestlemania after that match everyone viewed Roman Reigns differently and in a better light. The only old stars they have is Cena and Orton while Lesnar is a part time attraction and HHH/Taker/Sting are once or twice a year attractions. All the PPVs so far this year have been headlined by new stars, the whole thing that they don't have new stars is something that was valid in 2009-2012 but not now. When the world title picture revolved around new talent since the royal rumble you can't really say they don't have new stars as Rollins/Reigns/Ambrose/Wyatt are proven draws and main event talents , and the next group of guys who are starting to get to the next level (Rusev , Ryback , Cesaro , Owens , Neville) are close to that and before long we'll have guys from NXT coming up to add to that especially Finn Balor who will be WWE Champion at some point and has the biggest chance to be among the top faces in the company for the next 5-8 years. So they have new guys in the main event picture, and they got a nice line of guys to fill the main event picture.

The whole thing getting on Cena's back is because it's Cena, and when he wins feuds it's an automatically viewed as a bad thing when it should be more of an indictment on creative for not following through with storylines for guys after they fight Cena and honestly Owens was getting pushed so strong so soon that he would've fizzled out to the general audience as to most fans he's still the new guy that's only been in WWE a year. So bringing him down to earth and pushing him slowly makes sense and it makes the NXT Takeover show not be predictable as they needed a big main event to pack the Barclays Center, and with how the storylines were booked and guys being hurt there wasn't another logical main event so Owens had to get the main event rematch to sell tickets. Creative/Vince could book guys better but you can't put it on Cena or anyone else they are just dealing with the cards they are dealt, but Cesaro/Owens makes sense for Summerslam as well it keeps Owens in a featured feud with a credible opponent and brings Cesaro up to a higher level facing the guy who beat Cena once and took him to the limit in two matches even though I'm not a fan of Owens walking out of matches he's done it before on NXT and as a heel in ROH so it's not a big character change and opens up feuds down the line for him.

The streak ended for shock value, and it's obvious that WWE regrets doing it. It didn't end for Brock to look unstoppable, he's already proven that he's a monster so even if Taker beat him at Wrestlemania 30 It wouldn't have changed how Brock is viewed by the general audience. They did it to make it a memorable shocking moment, as it's backfired totally because for one the fans hate it and two they've booked Lesnar so strong that it's impossible for anyone to look credible beating him that's why no one brought the idea of Reigns who has an impressive build and was a great college football player and had a cup of tea in the NFL look like he can damage Brock at all without a million signature moves and finishers and it takes Brock fighting and losing to any small guys make any sense at all cause how can the guy who decimated Cena and Taker and took all Roman moves get beaten and damaged by someone who weighs under 220 pounds that's why it didn't make sense that Rollins had a fair chance since he beat Kofi and no sold all his moves the week or two before and he's the same build as Rollins. There's a chance Taker beats Lesnar just to make it easier to use Lesnar and have guys look like they have any chance of beating him at all, Lesnar should win but if he does going forward who else does he feud with and how can you believe them getting any damage on Brock to be considered logical since he absorbs punishment and no sells moves and it takes 5 guys to logically beat him down with weapons included. WWE didn't think long term when the streak ended and thought the shock value alone made it worth doing but in the long run it hasn't. Cause right now there's not a guy on the roster who looks credible enough to get enough offense in on Lesnar let alone beat him clean in the middle of the ring.

 

[-Raiga-]

WWE's FINALLY on the right track to new stars, but that's only because they've run out of "emergency button" options. They already brought back the rock. They brought back Lesnar. They ended the streak. They really have no other "instant" money options other than a potential HBK/Stone cold return, and even those would be lukewarm in 2015.

But the fact is, it's a little too late. WWE does NOT have any stars right now. If you were to put anybody but Cena/Lesnar/HHH/Taker on a talkshow like say Conan, the audience would say "who?". You can even see it in the "great" Rollins interactions on the daily show. Nobody has a f'ing clue who the world heavyweight champion is until stewart announces him. That's not a good thing.

Now all these guys, Cesaro/Rollins/Reigns/Ambrose/etc., may be household names in 2020, but they aren't right now, and won't be if WWE can't figure out long term booking that doesn't involve being fed to cena/part timers every big PPV.

I mean, right now Cena/Orton/Taker/HHH/Lesnar/Show/Kane/Henry/Sting should all be completely retired, and Kofi/Ziggler/Barret/MVP/Kennedy/Miz/Benjamin/other guys from that era, should be carrying the main event scene right now, ready to pass it off to those guys I mentioned up there. And yet WWE managed to screw every one of them up despite them all having successful brushes with the heavyweight scene at one time or another.

 

[ger9119]

Most of the guys you mentioned in the bottom either seriously flawed in either promos (Benjamin, Kofi) or can't really wrestle at all (Miz) while the other are just really midcard talents. I don't know why you included Sting he's only been in WWE for one match, Kane/Show/Henry put over young guys always while Taker/HHH are semi retired, Cena/Orton are still young and have great match and get a reaction why should they retire? Same with Lesnar, all three of them aren't even 40 yet, there's no reason for them to retire when they are in the prime of their careers and honestly a main event thing with the guys you mentioned is really bad as most of those guys were pushed to the moon and flopped. HBK and Stone Cold would flop in a return since they are old and can't work anymore, Sting was different cause he barely worked in TNA due to how they taped their shows. Lesnar took a break from wrestling and came back a bigger star than he was when he left, while Cena and Orton have carried the company for the last eight years or so and they are still great talents them retiring would be stupid.

They do have stars now in 2020 they will be the Orton and Cenas with everyone complaining that they hog the spotlight , Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns are all established over main event guys they main event PPVs and House Shows and Raw/Smackdown and they all move plenty of merchandise and get great reactions every single night, The Shield was the featured main event storyline for the majority of their run together they've been main eventing WWE shows for the better part of three years and the last year being in singles action. For you to think they aren't main event guys is asinine, you compare them to guys who've been main eventing for a decade plus well obviously they won't have the same name value imagine if they said that about Cena when his main event run started (who's that he's not Rock or Austin) or Austin when he got his run (That's not Bret or Shawn) or Bret/HBK (That's not Hogan or Warrior) you can't compare name values of a 3-4 year run to a 10-20 year run the guys you mentioned have, they didn't become megastars over night but they were still main event players before they became megastars. But Rollins/Reigns/Ambrose are main event guys right now and the value and appeal of their names will just go up as the years go buy. In 2020, those three will have had multiple world title runs each and new guys will be coming up that everyone else would think they aren't the Shield trio thinking they aren't main event guys now is discrediting those three greatly. They get fed to part timers? Pretty sure the Shield went over on Evolution on multiple PPVs, they also beat Cena before , and they also beat Undertaker while Roman was booked to be a semi equal to Lesnar so there goes your whole argument. The Shield guys are already household names with the target audience and are main event guys for the target audience, they are also slowly became known names to none wrestling fans but that doesn't happen over night. Those three and all the other young talents are instant money cause they sell out live events all week as well as Raw and PPVs if you're talking about a special match with part timers i'm pretty sure two out of the three from last years wrestlemania had young talent in it.

And for other guys they will be elevated too, it's like you're expecting them to instantly be major draws while it takes 2-5 years just to build anyone into a draw, none of those super known guys became the man from the start so you expecting WWE to just turn guys into that is also asinine. They got The Shield and Bray Wyatt who are main event guys with the fans, and while the people like us complain about they are booked sometimes they are viewed as main event guys by the majority of the audience. The second tier young guys that i listed still have a ways to go to be solidfied in the upper midcard/main event (They are pretty interchangable at this point barring the Lesnar feud every two months or so). Taking all the booking and stuff out of it cause we don't like the storyline while the majority of the audience likes it or it wouldn't be a featured segment on the show as it's been proven in recent years that the fans reaction can change/control the product, those guys are all featured in top billing storylines that makes them main event guys and main event level draws but they aren't at the level of guys who are considered legends with crossover appeal but it's not because they aren't draws or main event guys it's because they are still pretty new into the WWE runs and will eventually get there but it doesn't change the fact that they are already consider draws and main eventers to the WWE audience now.
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Uhaa Nation's new name is Apollo Crews, and he's debuting at Takeover:Brooklyn

 

[Platinum fan.]

But they do have new stars, the majority of their roster is new stars and the majority of feuds is new stars, Lesnar put over Reigns in that match at Wrestlemania after that match everyone viewed Roman Reigns differently and in a better light. The only old stars they have is Cena and Orton while Lesnar is a part time attraction and HHH/Taker/Sting are once or twice a year attractions. All the PPVs so far this year have been headlined by new stars, the whole thing that they don't have new stars is something that was valid in 2009-2012 but not now. When the world title picture revolved around new talent since the royal rumble you can't really say they don't have new stars as Rollins/Reigns/Ambrose/Wyatt are proven draws and main event talents , and the next group of guys who are starting to get to the next level (Rusev , Ryback , Cesaro , Owens , Neville) are close to that and before long we'll have guys from NXT coming up to add to that especially Finn Balor who will be WWE Champion at some point and has the biggest chance to be among the top faces in the company for the next 5-8 years. So they have new guys in the main event picture, and they got a nice line of guys to fill the main event picture.

The whole thing getting on Cena's back is because it's Cena, and when he wins feuds it's an automatically viewed as a bad thing when it should be more of an indictment on creative for not following through with storylines for guys after they fight Cena and honestly Owens was getting pushed so strong so soon that he would've fizzled out to the general audience as to most fans he's still the new guy that's only been in WWE a year. So bringing him down to earth and pushing him slowly makes sense and it makes the NXT Takeover show not be predictable as they needed a big main event to pack the Barclays Center, and with how the storylines were booked and guys being hurt there wasn't another logical main event so Owens had to get the main event rematch to sell tickets. Creative/Vince could book guys better but you can't put it on Cena or anyone else they are just dealing with the cards they are dealt, but Cesaro/Owens makes sense for Summerslam as well it keeps Owens in a featured feud with a credible opponent and brings Cesaro up to a higher level facing the guy who beat Cena once and took him to the limit in two matches even though I'm not a fan of Owens walking out of matches he's done it before on NXT and as a heel in ROH so it's not a big character change and opens up feuds down the line for him.

The streak ended for shock value, and it's obvious that WWE regrets doing it. It didn't end for Brock to look unstoppable, he's already proven that he's a monster so even if Taker beat him at Wrestlemania 30 It wouldn't have changed how Brock is viewed by the general audience. They did it to make it a memorable shocking moment, as it's backfired totally because for one the fans hate it and two they've booked Lesnar so strong that it's impossible for anyone to look credible beating him that's why no one brought the idea of Reigns who has an impressive build and was a great college football player and had a cup of tea in the NFL look like he can damage Brock at all without a million signature moves and finishers and it takes Brock fighting and losing to any small guys make any sense at all cause how can the guy who decimated Cena and Taker and took all Roman moves get beaten and damaged by someone who weighs under 220 pounds that's why it didn't make sense that Rollins had a fair chance since he beat Kofi and no sold all his moves the week or two before and he's the same build as Rollins. There's a chance Taker beats Lesnar just to make it easier to use Lesnar and have guys look like they have any chance of beating him at all, Lesnar should win but if he does going forward who else does he feud with and how can you believe them getting any damage on Brock to be considered logical since he absorbs punishment and no sells moves and it takes 5 guys to logically beat him down with weapons included. WWE didn't think long term when the streak ended and thought the shock value alone made it worth doing but in the long run it hasn't. Cause right now there's not a guy on the roster who looks credible enough to get enough offense in on Lesnar let alone beat him clean in the middle of the ring.

I'll take Roman Reigns beating Brock Lesnar over Undertaker doing it. Undertaker is old now, he's not as good as he once was. Nobody can beat the enemy known as time and aging. The only reason I was fine with them breaking the streak was so that somebody could then rise up and beat Lesnar and be the guy to beat the 1 in 21-1 or 22-1. If Undertaker beats Brock Lesnar he'll just retire and then nobody gets the rub. And the only reason Reigns stopped getting hated after mania was because WWE gave into the demand of fans and didn't let him beat Brock Lesnar clean. WWE choose to end the streak, so they need to stick with it now and pass that rub off to their next future guy, not the guy about to retire.

 

[ger9119]

I thought it was more Reigns earning fans approval by wrestling great matches on multiple PPVs, because they boo'ed him the first few weeks after the Lesnar match but not as bad as before and it's slowly turned to majority cheers or totally cheers since it was after he got a great match out of Big Show when he soundly got the fans approval combine that with the great performance against Lesnar the smarks didn't have anything else to complain about along with Vince stop writing fairy tales into his promos.

 

[celestial phantom]

I'm still hoping they come out with Lesnar vs Taker needing that Special Guest Referee in Sting. Let's the man do something for SummerSlam, if he say costs Taker the match or helps Lesnar get an assisted victory, we can get Team Sting vs Team Undertaker come Survivor Series (use the time after Summerslam, and before the Survivor Series to build potential teammates they can scout and reveal closer to the event), let Sting win that one, and then come WM time, they have a reason to have a dual retirement match.

At this point I see maybe 5 guys (NOT INCLUDING CENA), that can legitimately pose a threat to Lesnar, and only 1 realistically could win, 1 would feel a forced win, and the other 3 would probably get wrecked, but would put up a hell of a fight. The 1 who looks like he could win, Randy Orton. Randy's got the offense, the look, and the "dangerous lol" side that they could bring out that could take down the beast. The forced win would obviously be Reigns, because even though I give props to that WM match, I still didn't like how his weaker offense would put Lesnar down enough, while Lesnar was just systematically destroyed him while he did shrug it off. It would feel forced, but if he shows more and more of what he's been showing (more moves, a bit more to the psychology, a better repertoire of moves in succession), I could believe he's the guy to do it. Third would be Cesaro, the swiss superman. If they go all in, the man's got the look and resume of astounding feats and awesome matches, he would look like a real threat to Lesnar, especially if they continue on the trend of actually pushing him better, and focus on his wrestling ability, and what he can do in the ring. He would more than likely lose, but he'd have a better shot than the other two guys on my list of five. Fourth and Fifth would be most likely Sheamus and Ryback, two bigger/heavier guys on the roster that Lesnar probably wouldn't just ragdoll (He probably could just to prove a point though), but them looking like they do, they could sell that as a match and have it be a brawling affair.

No smaller guy will ever be able to take Lesnar on in most cases, and the few I believe would have to be No DQ, because while Punk matched up to Lesnar in height, he was still outweighed by a good 70 pounds I bet, and the "No DQ" stipulation helped sell what a fight Punk could bring to Lesnar as needed with weapons. This is especially after he was in UFC and their heavyweight champ. I'm pretty sure I can count the amount of people who were allowed to look legit against him in his first run on both hands. I think I'll try: Rock, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Voldemort, Big Show, Goldberg, and Undertaker. Dunno if I missed anyone, but I remember those ones specifically. 4 of those were already established in the main event category, one of those is a giant, and two of those guys got over as being awesome wrestlers and were built to be the underdog and they took advantage of Brock with quickness and submissions. Only way anyone that isn't up to the full stature is gonna look legit really is a mayhem type brawl (Dean could totally do this) instead of a regular match.

Really they just need to put the new faces out there winning regularly each week and not have them blow over each other. It loses that luster of matches to have them squaring off weekly, when they should take a win over a lower card guy, then promo on each other, and maybe fight once or so inbetween in say tag action or handicap matches to build some intensity for it going forward. Didn't want to see Ambrose vs Bray as much as they did when they didn't have anything better for both guys at the tail end of last year. Doesn't help they literally will throw just R-Truth or Bo Dallas out there as fodder pending Face or Heel. You could totally throw Kalisto or Sandow vs Wyatt, let Wyatt win, but show off Kalisto's determination and luchadore moves. I honestly can't see anyone they can throw out as fodder for faces to guys like Roman or Ambrose on their roster....except Bo. GDI, really don't want to see either of the ascension (b/c I don't want to see either of them on my TV in tag matches much less singles matches that could elevate them), or I don't care for Slater....maybe Xavier Woods? I dunno, they need better heels all around that could be used in elevation loses too. I mean it's what they are doing with Neville really. He's getting exposure, but not a whole lot. He's winning against some lower fodder, losing by a hair, and showing fight. He's getting solidified while trying to win over people with his athleticism, mostly because many people would be turned off by the accent he has, so less mic time. But, he's finding solid ground, is actually kind of in his first real feud, which looks like it's leading to a celebrity appearance, and working a good talent in Cody...despite him being a victim of poor writing and booking a character (Cody that is).

Also, Apollo Crew for Uhaa? Hm...hm...I approve of this actually, I dig it. Apollo sounds like a legit name now matter how you spin it, and while it just seems just mashing up Apollo Creed and what I presume is Terry Crews that dude looks like a beast himself. Now, how they book him, and portray him is what's probably gonna make or break him. I can't wait for NXT:Takeover Brooklyn. Already sounds like it should be fun with Tyler Breeze vs Liger and the newly named Apollo Crews debut.

 

[Platinum fan.]

I'm still hoping they come out with Lesnar vs Taker needing that Special Guest Referee in Sting. Let's the man do something for SummerSlam, if he say costs Taker the match or helps Lesnar get an assisted victory, we can get Team Sting vs Team Undertaker come Survivor Series (use the time after Summerslam, and before the Survivor Series to build potential teammates they can scout and reveal closer to the event), let Sting win that one, and then come WM time, they have a reason to have a dual retirement match.

At this point I see maybe 5 guys (NOT INCLUDING CENA), that can legitimately pose a threat to Lesnar, and only 1 realistically could win, 1 would feel a forced win, and the other 3 would probably get wrecked, but would put up a hell of a fight. The 1 who looks like he could win, Randy Orton. Randy's got the offense, the look, and the "dangerous lol" side that they could bring out that could take down the beast. The forced win would obviously be Reigns, because even though I give props to that WM match, I still didn't like how his weaker offense would put Lesnar down enough, while Lesnar was just systematically destroyed him while he did shrug it off. It would feel forced, but if he shows more and more of what he's been showing (more moves, a bit more to the psychology, a better repertoire of moves in succession), I could believe he's the guy to do it. Third would be Cesaro, the swiss superman. If they go all in, the man's got the look and resume of astounding feats and awesome matches, he would look like a real threat to Lesnar, especially if they continue on the trend of actually pushing him better, and focus on his wrestling ability, and what he can do in the ring. He would more than likely lose, but he'd have a better shot than the other two guys on my list of five. Fourth and Fifth would be most likely Sheamus and Ryback, two bigger/heavier guys on the roster that Lesnar probably wouldn't just ragdoll (He probably could just to prove a point though), but them looking like they do, they could sell that as a match and have it be a brawling affair.

No smaller guy will ever be able to take Lesnar on in most cases, and the few I believe would have to be No DQ, because while Punk matched up to Lesnar in height, he was still outweighed by a good 70 pounds I bet, and the "No DQ" stipulation helped sell what a fight Punk could bring to Lesnar as needed with weapons. This is especially after he was in UFC and their heavyweight champ. I'm pretty sure I can count the amount of people who were allowed to look legit against him in his first run on both hands. I think I'll try: Rock, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Voldemort, Big Show, Goldberg, and Undertaker. Dunno if I missed anyone, but I remember those ones specifically. 4 of those were already established in the main event category, one of those is a giant, and two of those guys got over as being awesome wrestlers and were built to be the underdog and they took advantage of Brock with quickness and submissions. Only way anyone that isn't up to the full stature is gonna look legit really is a mayhem type brawl (Dean could totally do this) instead of a regular match.

Really they just need to put the new faces out there winning regularly each week and not have them blow over each other. It loses that luster of matches to have them squaring off weekly, when they should take a win over a lower card guy, then promo on each other, and maybe fight once or so inbetween in say tag action or handicap matches to build some intensity for it going forward. Didn't want to see Ambrose vs Bray as much as they did when they didn't have anything better for both guys at the tail end of last year. Doesn't help they literally will throw just R-Truth or Bo Dallas out there as fodder pending Face or Heel. You could totally throw Kalisto or Sandow vs Wyatt, let Wyatt win, but show off Kalisto's determination and luchadore moves. I honestly can't see anyone they can throw out as fodder for faces to guys like Roman or Ambrose on their roster....except Bo. GDI, really don't want to see either of the ascension (b/c I don't want to see either of them on my TV in tag matches much less singles matches that could elevate them), or I don't care for Slater....maybe Xavier Woods? I dunno, they need better heels all around that could be used in elevation loses too. I mean it's what they are doing with Neville really. He's getting exposure, but not a whole lot. He's winning against some lower fodder, losing by a hair, and showing fight. He's getting solidified while trying to win over people with his athleticism, mostly because many people would be turned off by the accent he has, so less mic time. But, he's finding solid ground, is actually kind of in his first real feud, which looks like it's leading to a celebrity appearance, and working a good talent in Cody...despite him being a victim of poor writing and booking a character (Cody that is).

Also, Apollo Crew for Uhaa? Hm...hm...I approve of this actually, I dig it. Apollo sounds like a legit name now matter how you spin it, and while it just seems just mashing up Apollo Creed and what I presume is Terry Crews that dude looks like a beast himself. Now, how they book him, and portray him is what's probably gonna make or break him. I can't wait for NXT:Takeover Brooklyn. Already sounds like it should be fun with Tyler Breeze vs Liger and the newly named Apollo Crews debut.

I remember when Voldemort made Brock Lesnar tap out. I think it was Survivor Series 2003. But as far as the people of today who can face Lesnar, Cesaro needs more of a push. Because even right now it wouldn't be too believable if he were to beat Lesnar. I agree he has the look and the skills, just book him a little more stronger and that would be a match I'd like to see. I still want to see Sheamus vs Brock Lesnar. Don't care who wins, but it's a weird dream match I always wanted.

 

[Sid87]

I'm really struggling through the next entry in my Random Pay-Per-Viewings segment, because my RNG keeps throwing crap at me (next up is a gem from 1999 era WCW... ugh), so here's something else to amuse everyone.

Including NXT and Women/Divas... who are your current Top Ten favorites in WWE?

Mine are...

1. Seth Rollins
2. New Day (can I clump them all together like this? I am)
3. Finn Balor
4. Dean Ambrose
5. Sasha Banks
6. Bayley
7. Tyler Breeze
8. The Submission Sisters (Becky Lynch/Charlotte/Paige)
9. Kevin Owens
10. Stardust (who would be higher, but WWE has taught me to believe that he is negligible and unimportant)

HONORABLE MENTIONS: Daniel Bryan, Sami Zayn and Hideo Itami would all make the list if they were healthy. John Cena would make the list if he had not gone so hard over Owens. I love Cena's in-ring work these days; he's really killing it and putting on great programs. But the destruction of Owens just spoiled so much of the product for me right now and has left such a sour taste in my mouth.

This was REALLY hard and reminded me just how much of the roster I don't care for or an ambivalent towards. Stardust and Dolph Ziggler and both guys I like, but they are completely worthless in the current product and not doing anything. Owens is well on his way to that same territory.

 

[ger9119]

Only ten Sid? That's a tough question for sure. I'm enjoying the product overall, while some things could've been done differently recently it's still better than it has been. I'm not going to include part timers (Lesnar, Jericho , Taker) and i'll leave out Daniel Bryan who would make my list but his status is unclear.

1). Finn Balor
2). Hideo Itami
3). Dean Ambrose
4). Seth Rollins
5). Roman Reigns
6). Sami Zayn
7). Kevin Owens
8). John Cena
9). Sasha Banks
10). Paige

Honorable Mentions- Dolph Ziggler was close but the Lana angle got me pretty down on him and his in ring work since Mania was pretty average for his standards. Cesaro is climbing the list as well but wasn't enough so far to crack my top ten, New Day is getting there also they are quickly becoming my favorite tag team. Orton was close as well, he's just been floating around since turning face which is the norm for him there's two major feuds that should happen (Lesnar, Wyatt) that can really show how good Orton's character is. Rusev's ring work has been great as of late and can earn a spot. Neville and Stardust are also close, the feud they are having is fun and if I was 5-12 years old range Neville would be my favorite wrestler by far just like when I was young Rey and Jericho were my top two.

 

[finnbalor27]

Ooh okay...

My Top Ten Wrestlers in WWE

1. Finn Balor
2. Dean Ambrose
3. Cesaro
4. Kevin Owens
5. Tyson Kidd (I pray that he wrestles again)
6. Team PCB (I'm clumping those three together)
7. Dolph Ziggler
8. Seth Rollins
9. Stardust (more Cody Rhodes, but alas...)
10. Neville

Honorable Mentions:
RKO- Not Randy Orton, literally just his finisher.
Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, Undertaker- Part-timers aren't included.
John Cena- Supercena can put on a great match but I'm still sick of him.
Goldust- The Brotherhood was a great tag team.

 

[-Raiga-]

Has anyone watched all of Lucha Undergrounds final show, Ultima Lucha, by any chance? I've gotten to see a lot of part one(the first hour), and have only seen Mundo/Patron of the part two finale.

So far it seems like the perfect send off to the best overall wrestling show of 2015. I absolutely love the booking of every match on the card. It all either set's up for a potential second season as in Muertes Title win or Mundo's feud win(cuz lets face it he's been with LU from the start, and will probably be a major player in season 2), OR the booking basically paid respect to the wrestlers who got over and just couldn't fit into the title scene at this time. Namely Fenix(my fav from LU) who got the gift of the 7 gods(or something like that) title, or Drago, or Cage.

Speaking of which, LU was grateful enough to put up the full Cage/Mack match on their youtube channel.(all the other matches are online, but I'd like to support the official thing!). Watch it if you haven't got a taste of what LU can offer -

[video=youtube;UZLO4fQ5bCA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZLO4fQ5bCA&list=PLszDUngAaPFaS1RjnDnabQnGXIgFdZk4V&index=3[/video]

 

[finnbalor27]

Has anyone watched all of Lucha Undergrounds final show, Ultima Lucha, by any chance? I've gotten to see a lot of part one(the first hour), and have only seen Mundo/Patron of the part two finale.

So far it seems like the perfect send off to the best overall wrestling show of 2015. I absolutely love the booking of every match on the card. It all either set's up for a potential second season as in Muertes Title win or Mundo's feud win(cuz lets face it he's been with LU from the start, and will probably be a major player in season 2), OR the booking basically paid respect to the wrestlers who got over and just couldn't fit into the title scene at this time. Namely Fenix(my fav from LU) who got the gift of the 7 gods(or something like that) title, or Drago, or Cage.

Speaking of which, LU was grateful enough to put up the full Cage/Mack match on their youtube channel.(all the other matches are online, but I'd like to support the official thing!). Watch it if you haven't got a taste of what LU can offer -

[video=youtube;UZLO4fQ5bCA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZLO4fQ5bCA&list=PLszDUngAaPFaS1RjnDnabQnGXIgFdZk4V&index=3[/video]

I saw all of Ultima Lucha. I thought all of the matches were great, namely Cage/Mack (which incorporated a lot of wrestling for not being in the ring) and Muertes/Puma (I still think that Muertes needs a better finisher than a Reverse STO). I think that Mundo or Fenix will end up being the one to take Mil Muertes down for his championship next season. I could also see Cage as being in the title hunt now, but that's just me.

 

[ger9119]

LU is amazing