The Official WWE/AEW Thread, Brother!

[Night_Walker]

Dude, do you like bone off Randy Orton or something??? He's good at his job but WWE is now PG so Vince and co. want to push the company towards younger fans so they use John Cena to try and get them loads of (younger) fans . WWE is also pushing younger superstars now to make sure they've still got main eventers after Randy Orton and John Cena leave.

Orton is the most talented man in his age group (which should be the group that's main-eventing) within the WWE hence he should be the main-event.

There's no harm in helping build young talent but if you asked most people who the WWE's top heel is Orton would be right up there.

Man, its blatantly obvious you have NEVER been to a live show with cena there. Cena DESTROYS any one else in terms of popularity. I'll say that a decent amount of it is how WWE pushes cena, but there is no doubt in my mind that if it were up to him Cena is a good enough wrestler and certainly enough of a charasmatic wrestler to keep up the fanfare he has right now. And I don't think you understand, no matter what reaction you see or hear on television, its what products are selling that counts. In that case, I'm pretty sure WWE knows its sales better than you or I ever could.

I'm an Aussie so yeah I've never been to a live-show. But that's irrelevant, if Cena is SO popular then how come the majority of fans boo him on the shows? If he's so popular it shouldn't matter where he appears.

Cena is not charismic, what about someone who yells when "intensity" is called for and thinks juvenile toilet-humour is funny is charismatic?

Then what do you want, every single person in the company to be completely equal? Every person wins and loses as much as the other? Evan bourne wins as much as the big show? No, even kids realize that certain people will be better than others, and if everyone is equal it will lead to complete boredom.

Not to mention your "less talented" comment was pretty much false. I'm pretty sure kids understand that John cena won't be doing a 450 splash anytime soon, they just treat it so the people with more "experience" have the knowledge to make up for the talent they don't have.

I want the most talented/able people, the ones who can actually wrestle a main-event without needing a helping hand from others, to be the headline of the show that's all.

Cena's offence hasn't developed in 4-5 years. He uses the same moves which are all about seeming powerful, sometimes not even bothering to learn how to use them properly (ie the 'hip-toss' that put him on the shelf for 4 months).
Granted move-sets tend to be limited in the ring but at least people like Jericho, Orton, DiBaise, Undertaker, Edge, Swagger, etc know how to technically perform the move so that it's not all about power, and it's also a move that looks nice.

Wait, so you don't want to WWE to model itself after one person with your previous comments on john cena, but you do want them to with someone else(who would basically become what you said as if the company modeled itself after him he would have to look better than everyone else)?

My point about Orton being the future of the WWE is that right now I'd argue the WWE is built around HHH, HBK & Undertaker.
Orton is one of the people who will be one of those cornerstones of the WWE in years to come once HHH, HBK and Undertaker have retired (if he isn't one of the cornerstones already)- he's the right age, he's got the talent and ability, he's massively over (even as a heel).

Cena simply doesn't strike me as someone the WWE can use as a cornerstone.

So yeah it annoys me to have Orton made out as weak and cowardly when he's as vital to the company as their big names.

Two things, one, they aren't pushing anybody in that respect besides Sheamus. Second, the new people they are getting right now are to replace HHH, shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Jericho, Batista, etc. Randy Orton and Cena are more part of the new superstars if anything. Sure they may be established already, but they are still young as heck, and won't be leaving anytime soon.

Okay... if they're not still pushing Cena why was he Superstar of the Year? Why has he hardly been away from the Main-Event except when he's been injured for the last 4-5 years?
Orton's spent time in the mid-card between title runs and main-event fueds but Cena's barely ever there.

I won't argue Cena and Orton that are definitely still young (32 and 29 respectively) but I think Orton is a current cornerstone wrestler for the company. I'd say Swagger, MVP, Benjamin, Morrison, MacIntyre will eventually join him when HHH HBK and Taker (with supporting guys like Jericho) retire. I don't see Cena as possessing those same traits.

 

[rocky505]

It sucks cause of Cena ever since 05. If Cena would just go heel it could get a little better heck they still have DX to make some money with.

 

[The Mushroom]

WWE is the most succesful wrestling entertainment business and
it's way better then TNA for example in my eyes. They don't even have a 'normal' ring with 4 corners..
If WWE would be as bad as some people claim, then it wouldn't make sense at all since they earn tons of money. Not everyone has to like it, but don't talk crap about it when other people love it. In that case just go watch something else.
Most of the wrestlers are great. Yeah, a lot of people said it used to be much better in the past. Those are the people who liked (a) superstar(s) that already quit. Actually, superstars like Hulk Hogan himself said that these days WWE is even thougher then it used to be.

Every superstar has fans and.. well, people who don't like them.
Personally I like: Few examples:
*Rey Mysterio (A brave litlle guy. Honest. Cool mask that represents the oldskool-wrestling in Mexico. His high-flying moves are original and eyecatching.)
*Batista (Too bad he's a jerk lately, but he has some sick power).
*Randy Orton (Cocky attitude. I first hated that guy, but actually I started too like seeing him in action).

Now, every superstar, if you like them or not, they all try to do they job and try to entertain. Yes, there are some jerks, but if everybody would get along, it would be very boring, no? Everyone has its own opinion, but I just watching WWE causse it's entertaining. I've been watching since I was a lil' child. Personally I think it's act, or the biggest part of it. But it's still cool. What, movies are acted too.. Even if they acting, they still have to maintain their wrestling-skills and their physical, well their body.

 

[-Raiga-]

I'm an Aussie so yeah I've never been to a live-show. But that's irrelevant, if Cena is SO popular then how come the majority of fans boo him on the shows? If he's so popular it shouldn't matter where he appears.

....Only a small majority of people actually boo him out of disrespect, everyone else does it thinking their cool. It happens all the time, Cena will say "whether you love me", then the crowd will cheer like crazy, then he'll say "or whether you hate me" and the same exact people boo him. I thought that was fairly obvious.

Cena is not charismic, what about someone who yells when "intensity" is called for and thinks juvenile toilet-humour is funny is charismatic?[/SIZE][/FONT]

Wait, so you want him to not yell and get excited in his promos and be as mono-tone as he can possibly be? If promos aren't the time to be intense I don't know when is. Its not like he yells when he is sad or anything, so I have no idea where your getting this from. Not to mention, in the last part of your comment, you don't seem to fathom the idea he doesn't write his own material, he just works with what he is given.

I want the most talented/able people, the ones who can actually wrestle a main-event without needing a helping hand from others, to be the headline of the show that's all.

And Cena can do all of that. He is an extremely solid wrestler who usually is the one helping others.

Cena's offence hasn't developed in 4-5 years. He uses the same moves which are all about seeming powerful, sometimes not even bothering to learn how to use them properly (ie the 'hip-toss' that put him on the shelf for 4 months).

I would like you to find me an example of anyone past 30 years of age evolving their offence in the WWE. I don't see Michaels, HHH, Undertaker(w/exception of hells gate), Edge, even your beloved Randy Orton who has just switched to a more boring, methodical style.

Granted move-sets tend to be limited in the ring but at least people like Jericho, Orton, DiBaise, Undertaker, Edge, Swagger, etc know how to technically perform the move so that it's not all about power, and it's also a move that looks nice.

I personally think Cena does that, he always makes his three signatures look nice(stfu, attitude adjustment, 5 knuck-shuffle). I think your problem is that your literally looking too much into the wrestling of Cena just to find a problem to bash him on, instead of doing what wrestling is meant for, enjoyment. I guarantee you I find as many problems in anyone else you've mentioned as I can with cena if I cared as much as you seem to about bashing cena.

My point about Orton being the future of the WWE is that right now I'd argue the WWE is built around HHH, HBK & Undertaker.
Orton is one of the people who will be one of those cornerstones of the WWE in years to come once HHH, HBK and Undertaker have retired (if he isn't one of the cornerstones already)- he's the right age, he's got the talent and ability, he's massively over (even as a heel).

Ortons moveset is as diverse as Cenas right now, its full of headlocks, his backbreaker, spike DDT, and the RKO. Cena already beats out that list with his so called "5 moves of doom". I'm not saying I don't think Orton can do more, as I'm a fan of him myself, but I think Cena can do more as well but WWE limits him for the benefit of kids.

Also, Orton gets as much cheering as Cena does booing, he isn't over at all as a heel anymore unless he attacks a face.

Cena simply doesn't strike me as someone the WWE can use as a cornerstone.

Yeah....ummm...have you watched the past 5 years of wrestling? I really don't know what to say to this.

So yeah it annoys me to have Orton made out as weak and cowardly when he's as vital to the company as their big names.

No arguement from me here, they definately screwed up on making him look cowardly, but having him dominating the company would make him all the same reasons you hate Cena with the exception of wrestling.

Okay... if they're not still pushing Cena why was he Superstar of the Year? Why has he hardly been away from the Main-Event except when he's been injured for the last 4-5 years?

Did you actually read your own comment? You said they ARE pushing newer talent to make up for after cena leaves, but now your saying they aren't pushing the newer talent. Make up your mind. Also, he has been injured for small parts of those years, not even close to the majority of them.

I won't argue Cena and Orton that are definitely still young (32 and 29 respectively) but I think Orton is a current cornerstone wrestler for the company. I'd say Swagger, MVP, Benjamin, Morrison, MacIntyre will eventually join him when HHH HBK and Taker (with supporting guys like Jericho) retire. I don't see Cena as possessing those same traits.

Once again, I'm not saying that Orton isn't a cornerstone, but I do think Cena is as much of cornerstone as orton is. WWE realizes this too, its why they had as big of a feud as they did and recognized it as one of the biggest they have had. You might not think of Cena as good, but he IS a solid wrestler who knows his moves. He has never injured someone else, and no one has ever complained about him backstage about his in ring skills. Even Cartlito, who is phenominal athlete and someone I'm sure you consider better than cena, has said that no one puts more work into training than Cena.

 

[Night_Walker]

....Only a small majority of people actually boo him out of disrespect, everyone else does it thinking their cool. It happens all the time, Cena will say "whether you love me", then the crowd will cheer like crazy, then he'll say "or whether you hate me" and the same exact people boo him. I thought that was fairly obvious.

No, I'm so sick of hearing this "people only boo Cena cause they think it's cool". People boo because they do not like him or him being pushed down their throat.

When HHH is a face he is mostly cheered, when he's a heel he's mostly booed. That is the way fan dynamics are meant to work, when you've got a face who is mostly booed that means you've got a problem.

Wait, so you want him to not yell and get excited in his promos and be as mono-tone as he can possibly be? If promos aren't the time to be intense I don't know when is. Its not like he yells when he is sad or anything, so I have no idea where your getting this from. Not to mention, in the last part of your comment, you don't seem to fathom the idea he doesn't write his own material, he just works with what he is given.

I want him to be human; vary his vocal tone to reflect what he's saying not just think yelling is fine for "intensity".
I think they all have some input in what they say. I mean did Kofi use juvenile toilet humour in his feud with Orton? No.

And Cena can do all of that. He is an extremely solid wrestler who usually is the one helping others.

He is one of their weaker 'wrestlers' - his moveset is ugly and all about power not subtly, he can't sell, and he is held up in virtually every main-event he's in by his more talented opponents

I would like you to find me an example of anyone past 30 years of age evolving their offence in the WWE. I don't see Michaels, HHH, Undertaker(w/exception of hells gate), Edge, even your beloved Randy Orton who has just switched to a more boring, methodical style.

I must disagree, these men have added moves to their selection pool (HBK; inverted figure 4 - HHH; "Double A" spinebuster, figure 4 - Undertaker - Last Ride, Hell's Gate - Orton; Rope hung DDT, briefly a Boston crab, the Punt - Edge; Spear, Impaler, One Man Concerto) - just because they don't use them all the time doesn't mean they don't exist - and even more importantly they learn to perform them so they're done properly and look good.

I personally think Cena does that, he always makes his three signatures look nice(stfu, attitude adjustment, 5 knuck-shuffle). I think your problem is that your literally looking too much into the wrestling of Cena just to find a problem to bash him on, instead of doing what wrestling is meant for, enjoyment. I guarantee you I find as many problems in anyone else you've mentioned as I can with cena if I cared as much as you seem to about bashing cena.

Ah yes... the shoulder-block, shoulder-block, throwback, 5 kunckle-shuffle, F-U/Attitude Adjustment, pinfall or into STFU. He does have those down but it's irritating to always watch him perform the same sequence, it lacks the spontaneity some others have (especially in regards to his finisher which never comes from "nowhere").
I suppose you're right to an extent; I don't like Cena and have had the time to notice these things about him because he's continually pushed, however I do look at people like Orton and Swagger and such and think they're much more capable wrestlers.

Ortons moveset is as diverse as Cenas right now, its full of headlocks, his backbreaker, spike DDT, and the RKO. Cena already beats out that list with his so called "5 moves of doom". I'm not saying I don't think Orton can do more, as I'm a fan of him myself, but I think Cena can do more as well but WWE limits him for the benefit of kids.

Er what about: the punt, best drop-kick in the WWE, the revolving stomp, European Upper-Cut, Powerslam.
Granted he hasn't used them that much lately but he has in the past, Cena's moveset has been pretty much the same for the whole of his time in the WWE.
And I think Orton executes his moves a lot better, which I suppose is hardly a surprise since Orton's third generation and Cena was a bodybuilder before getting into the WWE.

Also, Orton gets as much cheering as Cena does booing, he isn't over at all as a heel anymore unless he attacks a face.

That's just my point - the majority of the crowd like and respect Randy, hence why the writers and such keep Orton doing cowardly things (like getting DQed to retain a title he holds at the time, or conducting sneak attacks) to try to get the crowd to boo him.

Yeah....ummm...have you watched the past 5 years of wrestling? I really don't know what to say to this.

Well if Cena still wrestles the same way he did against JBL at the Wrestlemania where he first became WWE champion then it seems a pretty safe statement to make.

No arguement from me here, they definately screwed up on making him look cowardly, but having him dominating the company would make him all the same reasons you hate Cena with the exception of wrestling.

I'd just like to see Orton pushed as talented. Honestly if they let him be as good as he can be, regardless of feud, I'd be happy.

Did you actually read your own comment? You said they ARE pushing newer talent to make up for after cena leaves, but now your saying they aren't pushing the newer talent. Make up your mind. Also, he has been injured for small parts of those years, not even close to the majority of them.

They're pushing some other superstars but they're still pushing Cena more then anyone else.

Cena's fueds since WrestleMania 21:
Cena vs JBL for the WWE title.
Cena vs Jericho for the WWE title.
Cena vs Angle (with cameo from Chris Masters) for the WWE title.
Cena vs Edge for the WWE title part 1.
Cena vs Triple H for the WWE title.
Cena vs RVD & Edge for the WWE title.
Cena vs Edge for the WWE title part 2.
Cena vs King Booker vs the Big Show three way title feud.
Cena vs Umaga for the WWE title.
Cena vs HBK for the WWE title.
Cena vs Orton vs Edge vs HBK for the WWE title.
Cena vs The Great Khali for the WWE title.
Cena vs Randy Orton for the WWE title part 1 - Ended when Cena tore his pectoral muscle preforming a hip-toss on Mr Kennedy.
Cena vs Randy Orton for the WWE title part 2.
Cena vs Randy Orton vs HHH for the WWE title.
Cena vs JBL.
Cena & Batista vs The Legacy for the World Tag team championships.
Cena vs Batista - Ended when Cena suffered a herniated disc following a Batisa Bomb.
Cena vs Chris Jericho for the WHC.
Cena vs Edge vs The Big Show for the WHC.
Cena vs Edge.
Cena vs The Big Show.
Cena vs Randy Orton vs HHH for the WWE title.
Cena vs Randy Orton for the WWE title part 3.
Cena vs Sheamus for the WWE title.

Need I say more?

Once again, I'm not saying that Orton isn't a cornerstone, but I do think Cena is as much of cornerstone as orton is. WWE realizes this too, its why they had as big of a feud as they did and recognized it as one of the biggest they have had. You might not think of Cena as good, but he IS a solid wrestler who knows his moves. He has never injured someone else, and no one has ever complained about him backstage about his in ring skills. Even Cartlito, who is phenominal athlete and someone I'm sure you consider better than cena, has said that no one puts more work into training than Cena.

To be honest I'm not sure why I don't see Cena as a cornerstone for the WWE, given the fact that HHH isn't the greatest wrestler the company's ever seen yet he's still a cornerstone.

 

[Frank The Bunny]

WWE sucked after the whole WCW/ECW vs WWF thing was over.

 

[evilman378]

I reckon its always sucked. UFC is much more interesting and its real.

 

[Frank The Bunny]

Two oily and sweaty men rubbing up on each other whilst rolling around the ground, truly great!

 

[firestar319]

WWE sucked after the whole WCW/ECW vs WWF thing was over.

I totally agree with you on that. The Attitude Era was the peak of WWF/E After that Alliance vs WWF story ended, WWE started plummetting.

 

[Treeconator11]

You guys are missing a point here. WWE is now marketed towards kids, it's not for older people anymore. The attitude era was only to get ratings, nothing more nothing less, but they decided to take WWE in a family friendly direction, and you people have, "Matured."

Frank, It's not two men rolling around like that. It's a physicaly grueling performance that has to look real, or it's hated. It's extremly hard, and you say it sucks now, because you're "Mature" and it's more family friendly now.

Evil, it's fake. That's why wrestling is big. People enjoy the theartrics and wrestling maneuvers, even if they know it's fake.

Fire, The alliance vs. WWE was awesome I admit. But WWE hasn't gotten worse, you've "Matured" and WWE hasn't, and that was a good move for it, it's more popular than ever, and now, there's actual wrestling on SD, ECW, and Superstars. Raw is mostly gimmicks, and I avoid it like the plauge, but the other shows are awesome.

Why won't people get that they're grown up, and WWE hasn't? WWE has ratings, and a ton of merchendise sales, all because they made that decision.

 

[firestar319]

You guys are missing a point here. WWE is now marketed towards kids, it's not for older people anymore. The attitude era was only to get ratings, nothing more nothing less, but they decided to take WWE in a family friendly direction, and you people have, "Matured."

Frank, It's not two men rolling around like that. It's a physicaly grueling performance that has to look real, or it's hated. It's extremly hard, and you say it sucks now, because you're "Mature" and it's more family friendly now.

Evil, it's fake. That's why wrestling is big. People enjoy the theartrics and wrestling maneuvers, even if they know it's fake.

Fire, The alliance vs. WWE was awesome I admit. But WWE hasn't gotten worse, you've "Matured" and WWE hasn't, and that was a good move for it, it's more popular than ever, and now, there's actual wrestling on SD, ECW, and Superstars. Raw is mostly gimmicks, and I avoid it like the plauge, but the other shows are awesome.

Why won't people get that they're grown up, and WWE hasn't? WWE has ratings, and a ton of merchendise sales, all because they made that decision.

When you say it like that, it actually makes sense why I feel the way I feel about WWE.

 

[Treeconator11]

YAY FOR RE-EDUCATION!!!! It's too bad I couldn't convert you to WWEisawesomeism, but whatever.

Night, I'm going to finish this argument between you and Raiga right now. John Cena is the superior wrestler, because he has ridicolusly high Merchandise sales, and kids look up to him as a hero and they watch the show when he's on it. Randy is not as good at that is John Cena.

 

[Night_Walker]

Night, I'm going to finish this argument between you and Raiga right now. John Cena is the superior wrestler, because he has ridicolusly high Merchandise sales, and kids look up to him as a hero and they watch the show when he's on it. Randy is not as good at that is John Cena.

Since it's not getting anywhere I'll just say this and drop the argument:

Cena is the better merchandiser, why I still don't understand past the fact kids still like 1-dimensional characters who always win.
Orton is the better technical wrestler.

As a fan I have the right to choose if I want to support someone who sells stuff for the company or someone who performs well in the ring, and the right to feel that the company should be focusing on in-ring rather then merchandising.

Anyway away from that, the writing on all shows for all feuds and segments desperately needs improving.

 

[Ipwnyou]

You want to hear trash talk and watch fighting? Get into politics.

 

[Treeconator11]

See, that proves my entire point here. John Cena is the better Merchandiser, thus, in the eyes of Mr. Mcmahon and the WWE staff, he is the better wrestler. I don't really wanna keep this going but, the company would rather have a guys who sells merchandise, than a guy who knows how to wrestle.

Also, I agree about the writing needing an improvement. It's boring, and the jokes suck big time.

 

[Night_Walker]

See, that proves my entire point here. John Cena is the better Merchandiser, thus, in the eyes of Mr. Mcmahon and the WWE staff, he is the better wrestler. I don't really wanna keep this going but, the company would rather have a guys who sells merchandise, than a guy who knows how to wrestle.

In my eyes selling merchandise doesn't amount to wresting.

Cena's demographic group is: women and kids - you can hear it in the voices of those who cheer whenever he gets on a roll. These are people who don't care if someone can sell or not, constantly comes out a winner, or doesn't wrestle technically.

The technical wrestler, HBK Orton Edge Jericho etc, appeals to: the traditional wrestling fanbase, people who want to be entertained by the fights in the ring and who are about 60% if not more of the audience.

Hence okay you get the Cena fanbase's money but you steadily infuriate more and more of the people who will consistently pay to get in to watch wrestling.

Does where I'm coming from make sense now?

Also, I agree about the writing needing an improvement. It's boring, and the jokes suck big time.

Yeah a lot of the feuds feel stale, don't do justice to both wrestlers, and last way too long, with only a few gem promos around now and then.

For instance the Orton vs Kingston feud.
At first it made Kofi look good, but now it's getting really stale cause Kofi is always getting the better of Orton - who can't get a clean win over him.
This actually hurts both of them; it makes Orton look weak and thus doesn't make Kofi seem as good as it would if he were coming out better against someone who is also really good.

And the 'jokes' by far and away are so juvenile I'm surprised almost anyone ever laughs at them... So they're in desperate need of reworking.

 

[Treeconator11]

Okay, I can agree on some points, but John Cena honestly isn't as bad as he's made out to be. He can actually do some pretty good matches, and he's pretty over with some crowds.

I think the real reason that the people boo Cena, is because WWE creative (A.K.A. Mr. McMahon) realized Cena was getting over with the crowds, and they made him a face, and took away all the stuff that people liked. It's not that they hate Cena, it's that they hate what WWE creative did to his character.

 

[mettstraw]

Well currently TLC is given the award to differnt wrestlers. So what is your opnioin regarding that award.

 

[Ugobama]

Shemous is a badass...He's going to wipe the floor with Cena.

 

[Jb]

Shemous is a badass...He's going to wipe the floor with Cena.

Agreed for Win