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The Official WWE/AEW Thread, Brother!

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
Night, I'm going to finish this argument between you and Raiga right now. John Cena is the superior wrestler, because he has ridicolusly high Merchandise sales, and kids look up to him as a hero and they watch the show when he's on it. Randy is not as good at that is John Cena.

We weren't arguing, no body was flaming or yelling at each other, it was just him getting his point of Cena not being able to sell and being over pushed while I got my point of Cena not being that bad across. Not really that hard to understand, we were more disputing smaller things like cena compared to other wrestlers.

Also your way off, Cena is no where as good as Orton is. Orton can cut a promo better, and wrestle better than cena can. I just think that Night_Walker underestimates Cena a bit.

Anyways, I didn't reply as I wasn't using the computer around the christmas days, but I'll reply to the rest of your stuff Night_Walker. I'll try to shorten how much I reply to though, as I agree on some of your points, and it gets just too long to reply to.

No, I'm so sick of hearing this "people only boo Cena cause they think it's cool". People boo because they do not like him or him being pushed down their throat.

Well I suppose there really isn't a way to prove who exactly is booing Cena, but as I said before you can distinctly see the same people cheering Cena as Booing cena later, but I suppose it really doesn't matter. However I have to disagree with more people booing him, epecially if you watched the latest Raw he didn't get almost any boos in the beginning. I mean the only time I've actually heard more people booing him than cheer him was at ECW One Night Stand 2.

I want him to be human; vary his vocal tone to reflect what he's saying not just think yelling is fine for "intensity".
I think they all have some input in what they say. I mean did Kofi use juvenile toilet humour in his feud with Orton? No.

All I see is someone who goes from a lower tone to a higher intensity as the promo goes on, which makes sense. As far as the second part goes, Kofi's new character is a whole heck of a lot different than Cena's is, it wouldn't make sense for him to insult orton like that.

His moveset is ugly and all about power not subtly, he can't sell, and he is held up in virtually every main-event he's in by his more talented opponents

I don't know how exactly he can't sell, you've said this 5 hundred times without an example. He constantly shows himself getting weaker in a submission, I personally think he sells puches pretty well, and recently on this weeks raw he sold those pump kicks from Sheamus pretty dang good. I mean, if I go through videos of Cena with a magnifying glass I could find hundreds of mistakes I'm sure, but as I said before I watch wrestling for entertainment, not to analyze it.

I must disagree, these men have added moves to their selection pool.....

I was unaware adding 2 or 3 moves over 10 years of a career accounts as changing movesets. Cena no doubt hasn't added much into his arsenal over the years(even though I could find 2-3 easily), but that doesn't mean the others have added that much to theirs also. When I look at contstantly evolving movesets I would look no further than Zack Ryder who introduces a new move practically every week despite have 2-3 minute matches like everyone else.

just because they don't use them all the time doesn't mean they don't exist - and even more importantly they learn to perform them so they're done properly and look good.

....Thats the case with everyone, including Cena. But than again its great that they have them but nobody in the world cares if they don't actually see them.

They're pushing some other superstars but they're still pushing Cena more then anyone else.

I never said they weren't pushing cena, however you said they were pushing newer talent to make up for when Cena and Orton are gone. Which you said yourself they aren't doing with that list of matches.



Now for the idiots...

WWE sucked after the whole WCW/ECW vs WWF thing was over.

Look at treeconator11's post for this one. Or I'll sum it up in a sentence, YOUR OLDER NOW.

I reckon its always sucked. UFC is much more interesting and its real.

While I hate to insult UFC as its not that bad, I fail to see how, punch...kick...grab... is more interesting. Not to mention we have all those great personalities in UFC like... the guy who likes to fight.

Two oily and sweaty men rubbing up on each other whilst rolling around the ground, truly great!

Let me guess, you think UFC is better too, despite it being the exact thing your describing. As you don't seem to have ever watched a wrestling match as they don't "Roll on the ground" or "Rub up on each other". If anything you were getting turned on by this.

You want to hear trash talk and watch fighting? Get into politics.

Look up the words Argue and Fight on dictionary.com, and you'll find your problem. Unless I missed the presidential debate where obama roundhouse kicks McCain's head off.
 

Night_Walker

Well-Known Member
Well I suppose there really isn't a way to prove who exactly is booing Cena, but as I said before you can distinctly see the same people cheering Cena as Booing cena later, but I suppose it really doesn't matter. However I have to disagree with more people booing him, epecially if you watched the latest Raw he didn't get almost any boos in the beginning. I mean the only time I've actually heard more people booing him than cheer him was at ECW One Night Stand 2.
I think more people boo him then cheer him constantly.

What makes it hard to hear is the higher pitched cheering of his dedicated fanbase (who often start cheering louder whenever they hear someone booing him).

And the booing gets loudest when he starts the usual "5 moves of doom" sequence, so it's pretty clear what they don't like.

All I see is someone who goes from a lower tone to a higher intensity as the promo goes on, which makes sense. As far as the second part goes, Kofi's new character is a whole heck of a lot different than Cena's is, it wouldn't make sense for him to insult orton like that.
We don't just yell when we have intense feelings.

Randy Orton has done so many promos where he hasn't yelled at all, he's varied his tone of voice from his usual one to an ice cold contempt filled one without raising the volume.
That's effective and human.

I suppose you're right on Kofi, but I still think Cena's promo work is desperate need of work on both sides.

I don't know how exactly he can't sell, you've said this 5 hundred times without an example. He constantly shows himself getting weaker in a submission, I personally think he sells puches pretty well, and recently on this weeks raw he sold those pump kicks from Sheamus pretty dang good. I mean, if I go through videos of Cena with a magnifying glass I could find hundreds of mistakes I'm sure, but as I said before I watch wrestling for entertainment, not to analyze it.
There's a difference between selling being laid out backstage and selling being beaten up in the ring for longer then just when the actual move hits.

And Cena can't do it.
Against HBK at Mania 23, HBK worked on his leg for 15 minutes, when he finally turned the tide he didn't show any residual effects of that nor when he left the ring after the match.
When he fought Orton at No Way Out the year before last he took an RKO on the floor but just about jumped back in the ring at the count of 9 and then showed no wooziness or ill effects of it.
Those are the biggest examples I can think of but in his matches he frequently gets that second wind and shows no after effects of what's been done to him.

Orton, HBK, HHH, Taker etc will get that second wind and run through to get the win, but they'll often sell that a worked over body part is still hurting and after the match they'll continue to sell it.
For me it stops me cold because I think "hey wait a minute that (insert limb/bodypart) is supposed to have been beaten up how can you move like that?!"

....Thats the case with everyone, including Cena. But than again its great that they have them but nobody in the world cares if they don't actually see them.

With Cena he usually uses virtually his whole move set in a normal, non shortened non-squash, match. There's nothing left that you haven't seen after a match like that.

Orton frequently don't have to expend his whole move set, personally I think in feuds where he's meant to make someone else look good he's restrained from using them all.

Same with HHH etc.

I never said they weren't pushing cena, however you said they were pushing newer talent to make up for when Cena and Orton are gone. Which you said yourself they aren't doing with that list of matches.
They're not moving Cena away from World Title fueds, that's what I consider pushing him down people's throats. Seriously if he spent the better party of 2010 from Jan on in the mid card, like most main-events do after running through a program as Champion, I'd stop complaining about him being pushed over the top of everyone else.

It is reassuring to see that they do have some people being built up but they're being underused from what they should be.
 

Jb

Tsun in the streets
I guess ill sum up a cena match now tell me how accurate i am...here it goes.

Cena does that stupid salute ever since the marine,The bell rings here i go.

Cena gets his asskicked,Then WAIT!! here comes the shoulderblock, then he "hulks up" then a 5 knuckle shuffle, then a..........whats the point of conntinuing.....could the next poster fill in the last thing he does?
 

Treeconator11

Ultranumb
Shemous is a badass...He's going to wipe the floor with Cena.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there's no Shemous in the WWE. There is a Sheamus though.

I guess ill sum up a cena match now tell me how accurate i am...here it goes.

Cena does that stupid salute ever since the marine,The bell rings here i go.

Cena gets his asskicked,Then WAIT!! here comes the shoulderblock, then he "hulks up" then a 5 knuckle shuffle, then a..........whats the point of conntinuing.....could the next poster fill in the last thing he does?

Wrong, replace those move's with Hulk Up, punch, punch, punch, big boot, Leg Drop, win, then it's perfect for Hulk Hogan.

Honestly people, you underestimate John Cena here. John can wrestle some good matches, and he cuts a decent promo. It's not like he's the worst thing that ever happened to WWE, and now it's ruined forever. Yes, I understand John may not be as good as Randy Orton, well, ever. But John can actually wrestle worth a damn, and his promo's are decent.

I don't understand why a wrestler has to be Randy level good or they suck. John can do his job, and he can do it well, maybe not Randy good, but he's not as bad as you people say he is.
 

rocky505

Well-Known Member
Cena is the main problem with WWE right now People are sick of him and they want more people to be the WWE or WHC like Kofi kingston he's been on a role since Orton and Cena's Iron man match. Heck I would rather see Ted dibiase jr as the WWE champ.
 

tyranitar90

UP THE IRONS
i agree with tyranitar 305. I used to watch wrestling because of DX, undertaker, and the rock. Now they have boring wrestlers and even TNA has more cussing, which is what the wwe lacks. I mean I know its scripted, but can't they get better stories?
 

Night_Walker

Well-Known Member
i agree with tyranitar 305. I used to watch wrestling because of DX, undertaker, and the rock. Now they have boring wrestlers and even TNA has more cussing, which is what the wwe lacks. I mean I know its scripted, but can't they get better stories?
Well personally, having looked at both promotions I have to say I don't think much better of TNA's writing then I do of the WWE's.

Both have great and pathetic writing. And as far as I'm concerned it doesn't make any difference if a wrestler who is bad mouthing another one cusses or uses swear words.

The writing for a feud is every bit as important as if the wrestlers involved have good chemistry with each other and can tell a story in the ring. And a lot of the writing now is sub-standard.

Personally I think Orton and Kingston have great chemistry as foes but the writing and scripting is letting them down.
The same sorta thing with the Batista vs Mysterio vs Undertaker feud on Smackdown - Batista causing a DQ in Mysterio's title match with Undertaker (by striking Taker) results in a Beat the Clock Challenge to determine a new #1 contender, but Mysterio causing Batista to fail by pulling the official out of the ring to stop a count results in a #1 contenders match between them... The logic is missing in my opinion.
 

HazzaY2J

</3 Kid
Well IMO right now Wwe needs to work on a few things such as..
The tag team division, bring back the Cruisierweight Weight championship and maybe even Hardcore for that matter :p Bring back blood! And a bunch more lol.
Wwe has lost it's touch that it once had and now with The Hitman back it'd be nice to see if they can whip up a good storyline with Vince, Hbk and The Hitman..

The Pg rating is one of the biggest factors of the very poor, dismal performance by the Wwe.
The storylines aren't really good and I guess I only watch for my favourites, like Edge, Y2J, Hbk, Triple H and The Hitman (Because he signed a 4th month deal with the Wwe!) :p
But by going Pg they get the kids involved heavily and that means big Merchandise sales to their favourite superstars... And we all know that Vince loves money ^^
I believe that Wwe will be Pg for a few more years and when the Kids that watched Wwe start to grow up they'll increase the rating and adapt to what they want.
And with the "Wars" with Tna now, I think it's the best thing that could happen right now, because it brings out the best in McMahon.. like in the Old Monday Night Wars! I believe McMahon will rise to the challenge :)
Wwe has the talent, the question is, can they use it to the best of their ablility?
And that's my rant on Wwe ^^
 
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Treeconator11

Ultranumb
Well IMO right now Wwe needs to work on a few things such as..
The tag team division, bring back the Cruisierweight Weight championship and maybe even Hardcore for that matter :p Bring back blood! And a bunch more lol.
Wwe has lost it's touch that it once has and now with The Hitman back it'd be nice to see if they can whip up a good storyline with Vince, Hbk and The Hitman..

The Pg rating is one of the biggest factors of the very poor, dismal performance by the Wwe.
But by going Pg they get the kids involved heavily and that means big Merchandise sales to their favourite superstars... And we all know that Vince loves money ^^
I believe that Wwe will be Pg for a few more years and when the Kids that watched Wwe start to grow up they'll increase the rating.
And with the "Wars" with Tna now, I think it's the best thing that could happen right now, because it brings out the best in McMahon.. like in the Old Monday Night Wars!
Wwe has the talent, the only question is, can they utilize it?
And that's my rant on Wwe ^^

Oh yay, let's dissect it.

I agree on the tag teams, but the cruiser weight is unnessisary, and the hardcore stuff is a bunch of crap.

The hitman is awesome, and a storyline between Vince, Shawn, and Bret would be even more awesome, I agree.

Poor, dismal performance? Fail, huge giant fail. WWE is an amazing product, with a bunch of amazing superstars, and even if the writing is lame, the wrestlers can do what they are paid to do very well. Also, WWE won't grow up when these kids grow up. They didn't grow up for you, and when these kids grow up, they'll find new one's to replace em.

And yeah, the wars would definitly help both of the promotions, but WWE will win, there is no question, WWE is a giant company that can beat TNA in pretty much anyway. No offence to TNA fans, but that's the way it is.
 

HazzaY2J

</3 Kid
Oh yay, let's dissect it.

I agree on the tag teams, but the cruiser weight is unnessisary, and the hardcore stuff is a bunch of crap.

The hitman is awesome, and a storyline between Vince, Shawn, and Bret would be even more awesome, I agree.

Poor, dismal performance? Fail, huge giant fail. WWE is an amazing product, with a bunch of amazing superstars, and even if the writing is lame, the wrestlers can do what they are paid to do very well. Also, WWE won't grow up when these kids grow up. They didn't grow up for you, and when these kids grow up, they'll find new one's to replace em.

And yeah, the wars would definitly help both of the promotions, but WWE will win, there is no question, WWE is a giant company that can beat TNA in pretty much anyway. No offence to TNA fans, but that's the way it is.
I heard that Wwe's Pg rating had something to do with Linda McMahon and a senate run?

Hehe you make a good point, It's nice to see someone that knows there stuff :)
I liked Raw this week and was happy to see Bret back..
But I didn't really like Impact...
 

dragon-dark-master

Thanks SPPf. TTYL
WWE PG rating, also Cena, is because WWE is currently targeted at the younger audiences. During the Attitude Era, it was targeted at young adults. This whole thing goes in cycles, nothing to do with a Senate run.
 

ElectiCrow

Do The Tevez!

Anyway away from that, the writing on all shows for all feuds and segments desperately needs improving.

On Raw. many people say SD! and even ECW have good storylines and writing although they don't generate as many ratings.
 

Treeconator11

Ultranumb
I wouldn't say the storylines are better, I'd just say that the wrestling is far, far better on those shows.
 

Myrrh

Well-Known Member
There are few things that the WWE does that bothers me but overall it's pretty good. I've been with it for years but not as far as back as the attitude era so I can't really compare the present to the past much. The things that bother me are minimal like when they come back from a commercial show us some lame skit or backstage scene and then go right back to commercials. If it was worth watching then I guess it's okay but I wish it wouldn't happen often. there are many wrestlers that I tune in to see every Monday and Friday night.

And then there's Cena.......

He doesn't bother me.
 

Treeconator11

Ultranumb
No, if anyone deserves to end The Streak, it's Shawn Micheals, and since Shawn lost at Wrestlemania 25, there's no one who can end it convincingly, so he should just keep the legacy alive.
 
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