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The Official WWE/AEW Thread, Brother!

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
I don't watch New Japan with any kind of consistency, but isn't Nakamura slightly(emphasis on the slightly) on the older side? He looks kind of 35-37 ish to me. At the very least, if I were WWE, I'd pick up Okada simply because of the age factor, and possibly due to there being no guarantee Nakamura's unique charisma would work in the WWE. Don't get me wrong though, I like Nakamura better.(though I hope he stays in NJ just to help them out)

Also on note of what brand is killing what brand, I feel like once LU figures out that nobody in 2015 wants to see hernandez, especially in the main event every week, the show will be able to resume it's match quality dominance. Though it's almost hard to compare it with other federations simply due to the way it's produced...and well the fact that it's lucha wrestling more than it is american.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
I don't watch New Japan with any kind of consistency, but isn't Nakamura slightly(emphasis on the slightly) on the older side? He looks kind of 35-37 ish to me. At the very least, if I were WWE, I'd pick up Okada simply because of the age factor, and possibly due to there being no guarantee Nakamura's unique charisma would work in the WWE. Don't get me wrong though, I like Nakamura better.(though I hope he stays in NJ just to help them out)

Also on note of what brand is killing what brand, I feel like once LU figures out that nobody in 2015 wants to see hernandez, especially in the main event every week, the show will be able to resume it's match quality dominance. Though it's almost hard to compare it with other federations simply due to the way it's produced...and well the fact that it's lucha wrestling more than it is american.

Nakamura is 35 he'll be 36 in febuary , but he has a lot of mileage due to how he wrestles and that New Japan rings are a lot more stiffer than WWE's so for him this would be the only time he can since even in NJPW they've been protecting him by booking him in mainly tag matches . I agree with you 100%, his charisma is one of a kind but that's not a for sure thing that it will work in WWE but if it does there's a lot of money to be made there from a charisma standpoint and in ring wise he's untouchable. He reminds me of an Ambrose with how he's very eccentric in the ring but there's a less random crazy vibe and a more calculating manner to how he does things and his entrances are always very out there. I think he would get over with the kids more than he would with the general fan who only watches WWE, as he looks different from everyone else like how his hair is along with mannerisms and has a lot of comedy in between all his great striking, submissions and moves. It's a hit and miss thing with him mainly since if his charisma doesn't catch on with the WWE audience he'll be fighting an upward battle to getting over, if he was on NXT he'll be over on name alone but once he goes up it would be a question mark to see if people get why he's so special.

Okada on the other hand is 27 (turning 28 in november) and has sold out the tokyo dome twice ( between 35-50k people) when he was top billing, won their top title twice and the G1 Climax twice along with one New Japan Cup win. His character is great and fits the classic WWE heel, reminds me of Randy's legend killer gimmick but turned up to another level. I could imagine him being the new cornerstone of the Authority as their chosen guy they brought from overseas to lead WWEs future. He's lacking mic skills wise in Japan so that needs work as well as learning english but give him a mouthpiece on Main Roster or have him in NXT learning. He's among the best workers in the world and isn't even close to his prime. Losing Okada would be crushing for New Japan, as their other young stars aren't totally ready for Main Eventing but have had some chances to main event (Omega, Ibushi , Naito , etc). I think losing Nakamura wouldn't hurt NJPW as much since he's given so much to that company, if it wasn't for him and Tanahashi carrying it from 2002-Present they wouldn't be around right now. He's more of a sure thing, since he's young enough to build your company around him being apart of your WWE title picture for the next decade or so.

I haven't watched much LU. But Hernandez wasn't main event worthy in his prime durning his TNA run, so i'm hoping that's a part time thing since LU has a chance to be really special and them bringing in guys who aren't that good is damaging to their product. It's becoming an alternative to WWE like in TNA's early days, LU along with ROH on TV will eventually force WWE to change how they do things.
 

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
New Japan stuff

Pretty much my sentiments exactly. The biggest issue I would see for Nakamura is that, part of the reason his eccentricity works so well now is that he spent like a decade as a great wrestler prior, it's been a very gradual process getting to the summit he's at right now. If he were say 33, even with the strong style injuries I could see him working his way up the ladder in WWE. I mean look at Jeff Hardy, the American wrestler he's compared to most. Hardy spent what, like 8-10 years as a pretty solid undercard face, and than out of nowhere became one of the most white hot stars I've ever seen, eclipsing even John Cena reactions while relegated to smackdown nonetheless. So that kind of run with that kind of personality already has historical proof it can be done in the states. It's just a matter of time though, and as you said it's basically now or never.(I feel bad for Kenta if either okada or Nakamura jump ship though lol. There's room for two, but more than likely WWE will only want to push one at a time)

Honestly from what I've seen of New Japan, Ibushi is the wrestler I want in the states more than anyone else. Not only is he really creative and talented, he's young and has THE look. IMO I've always thought there could be a good market for a "japanese boy band" looking wrestler, and Ibushi fits that bill perfectly. No offense to Kenta or Yoshitatsu, but they just don't have that look. I could see him getting over in the same way that say, teenage girls fawn over Randy Orton or Roman Reigns.....and of course he'd be having great matches all the while for the rest of us.(no I'm not a teenage girl)

I haven't watched much LU. But Hernandez wasn't main event worthy in his prime durning his TNA run, so i'm hoping that's a part time thing since LU has a chance to be really special and them bringing in guys who aren't that good is damaging to their product. It's becoming an alternative to WWE like in TNA's early days, LU along with ROH on TV will eventually force WWE to change how they do things.

Hernandez to me, is what X-pac heat is to everyone else. I've never seen a good match out of him that his foe didn't drag him to, and his "character" is quite possibly the most generic mexican heel ever. "I wear a bandana and do bad things", that's about it.

But yeah, signings like him, chavo, texano, daivari, etc. are really annoying me. The show struck gold by showing top talents Americans haven't seen before like Drago, or Ricochet(prince puma in LU). As well as showcasing wrestlers like Morrison, Judas Mesias, or Ezekiel Jackson in a new light. It truly formed it's own identity that separated it from TNA's issue of being WWE rejects. And now they are headed in the opposite directon, taking in less than stellar ex wwe talents and even ex tna talents, and barely giving them a new identity or purpose. Still, I'll keep my hopes up. Ultimo lucha is there big show and it's almost here, so even if a second season isn't announced I'm sure it will be one helluva send-off.
 
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Mye

Someone has to win..
[video=youtube;5k4vL9Y28eY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k4vL9Y28eY[/video]

Liked this one compared to the other one. Learned more about Cesaro, and can't wait to see them invite Breeze and/or do a Goldeneye tournament on that channel (even though Kofi will probably destroy them, with him being the Block Resnar of video games).
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
I agree with you 100% Raiga on both things. No spoilers from Beast of the east guys, I haven't watched yet :x
 

celestial phantom

Well-Known Member
Hernandez to me, is what X-pac heat is to everyone else. I've never seen a good match out of him that his foe didn't drag him to, and his "character" is quite possibly the most generic mexican heel ever. "I wear a bandana and do bad things", that's about it.

But yeah, signings like him, chavo, texano, daivari, etc. are really annoying me. The show struck gold by showing top talents Americans haven't seen before like Drago, or Ricochet(prince puma in LU). As well as showcasing wrestlers like Morrison, Judas Mesias, or Ezekiel Jackson in a new light. It truly formed it's own identity that separated it from TNA's issue of being WWE rejects. And now they are headed in the opposite directon, taking in less than stellar ex wwe talents and even ex tna talents, and barely giving them a new identity or purpose. Still, I'll keep my hopes up. Ultimo lucha is there big show and it's almost here, so even if a second season isn't announced I'm sure it will be one helluva send-off.

That is probably the best description of Hernadez anyone can give the guy. He looks like most of the generic thugs you would see in Movies/Shows, and they are almost always the nameless type, and really have no charisma about them. The only reason you'd pay any attention to a guy like him is because he looks like a thug, and nothing else. I never liked him overall since I first saw him in TNA. Didn't mind Homicide, thought he was the fun one to watch of the duo, but Homicide wasn't much better for me to watch as a wrestler entirely. Both guys are pretty forgettable.

Won't lie, I dunno much about Texano nor has he made much of an impact on me, but I guess he's just there for name value from AAA. Didn't mind Chavo so much....but I might be overthinking this, but wasn't he wasting a fair amount of time for a while fighting Sexy Star? And the way it went down reminded me horribly of the time he spent like months trying to get the better of Hornswoggle during his final days in WWE. I wouldn't have minded if he were just a veteran there to give more unknown guys wins, but, yeah Chavo hasn't done much for me on LU either. "Daivari's still around?" was my first thought seeing him show up, since I haven't seen him wrestle at all in like 5 years when he was in TNA.

I like how they are handling Alberto and Morrison though, having nice spots on the cards, but aren't entirely lost without direction. I won't lie, I had to look it up when you mentioned him, but I had no idea that it was Judas Mesias that was under the Mil Muertes mask. Things overall have been solid for the promotion, so I think they'll do well, just let's hope they don't end up pushing too many former WWE/TNA guys if they show up into top spots they probably don't deserve, or should have. I hope there's another season to LU, as the matches have been pretty great so far, fair hit and misses, but in the bigger situations they seem to pull all the stops and give at least something worth talking about. I hope that's enough reason, however I think they might be have been going overboard on "special gimmick" matches over the last few months. They should pull back on some of these in the future.

As far as Nakamura/Okada possibly getting a tryout with WWE this weekend. I don't think it'd work entirely for Nakamura to leave Japan. I love watching the guy, and it would be amazing to see him in WWE, but I don't think the charisma would translate easily, unless they go full cross over star, and actually acknowledging other promotions fully outside WWE and he gets to be himself. No WWE remolding, reworking his gimmick, renaming him. He gets to be Shinsuke Nakamura, he gets to be the bada** King of Strong Style, and he gets to do whatever the hell he does to make segments look funny with whatever mannerisms he has. Like you said Raiga, it's like Jeff, Nakamura's built his name on a loyal following for the last decade or so, and his popularity, charisma, and ability to work a match got him to the top level in Japan. I don't think he would have the time to build the same in America starting from scratch under the way WWE does stuff, unless they actually bill him to be a cross over attraction. I mean they do have Samoa Joe who is of similar age, so I don't think that is the problem, but does Nakamura even speak English? That's where the biggest problem lies really, since his eccentricities would probably be lost on people with the way that Cole badly explains things, and without proper exposition. If he can't communicate what he's doing/why he is, it's hard for the American audience to get invested into that. He'd be an interesting piece in the WWE landscape, but I really don't trust creative with a guy like Nakamura ever, as they stand now.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
Nakamura speaks fluent english so that wouldn't be a problem, he was roomates with Daniel Bryan in Cali for awhile while both were training out of the New Japan dojo that's there. I wouldn't compare him to Jeff Hardy at all actually, since Nakamura was never in the midcard or tag team pictures for years in New Japan before he broke out, he was choosen to be the face of the company in 2003 (he wrestled a single match for them in 2002) , and won the IWGP Heavyweight title in 2004 as the youngest champion in the history of that title. The crowds rejected him because it was a boring generic thing where they called him the "Super Rookie", it wasn't until late 2008 until he started his change towards what he is now. 2009 was when he started the whole strong style thing (7 years from his debut) and he hasn't had a IWGP heavyweight title run since 2010, he was still a heel around then too as he was the polar opposite to what was good in New Japan (Tanahashi). His rise in recent years was because Bullet Club was formed and the fans don't like the American/Euro wrestlers, So they made most of Nakamura's faction tweeners or full on face like Nakamura is now. From 2012-Present is when he's really raised his popularity up as a face with the King of Strong Style character , along with that whole company itself becoming prominent again. If you were going to compare his run to anything it would be like a Randy Orton pushed way too soon as a rookie (Generic character->Evolution Orton) (Super Rookie->Ace) then had a great run as a heel (Legend Killer->Viper) (Black Savior-> Bringing Strong Style back) to a couple of huge face runs as the (Apex Predator) (King Of Strong Style).
 
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ger9119

Well-Known Member
*Opens mouth*



*closes it again. Leaves*

Lmao! I finished watching Beast in the East, very impressed with the show from top to bottom didn't really get bored throughout Owens/Balor was amazing as was Neville/Jericho. I wished we had those kinds of crowds every week it would make the show a lot better, they even cheered the divas match which wasn't the greatest.
 

Sid87

I love shiny pokemon
Lmao! I finished watching Beast in the East, very impressed with the show from top to bottom didn't really get bored throughout Owens/Balor was amazing as was Neville/Jericho. I wished we had those kinds of crowds every week it would make the show a lot better, they even cheered the divas match which wasn't the greatest.

Owens/Balor was great, but something about it felt ALMOST lackluster to me. Like it felt they were holding just a LITTLE bit back, and the match was more basicthan I'd have thought. Still 4-stars, though. I just wouldn't go higher than 4 even stars. Which, like I said, is still great.

It's a shame either guy had to lose. Kevin Owens has actually been on a losing STREAK recently, and he has the big Cena matchup coming, but if Balor hadn't won, he'd start sinking a bit in NXT.

Ah well.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
Great Raw tonight, Lensar stuff was awesome as expected, Rusev being back is good, solid matches, also titus calling out announce team on their BS was awesome. And we got a 5 star match or something close to it on free tv with Cena and Cesaro, wow that was great. Big props for Cesaro, this is just another night where it's proven that Vince is an idiot and was wrong about him. These last two matches really improved Cesaro's stock him being close to Cena throughout two great matches have done more for him than all the crap he did before he started teaming with Kidd.

Cena having one of the best years of his career so far, and from a match quality perspective it's one of the tops for all of wrestling in 2015 the only other people to having this many quality matches on a constant basis has been AJ Styles, Nakamura there's other guys putting on great matches too but I mean it's all been either good or great for Cena barring that Russian Chain match. Cena's character may be stale for most of his career, but he's been a great performer and has elevated his work with the US title turning it into a relevant title to go as a second to WWE title and maybe even equaling it in importance.

[video=youtube;MmbFq7zwgC8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmbFq7zwgC8[/video]
 
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celestial phantom

Well-Known Member
That...that was awesome. Cesaro and Cena had one awesome match for a main event. If they somehow drop the ball on him with this, I won't be surprised, but this is literal momentum they can give the guy. Though, why couldn't they be chanting that the entire match? I mean fine chant Let's Go Cena/Cena Sucks, but if you give the other guy an equal reaction, management will take notice of that. Doing that stuff for most of the match, especially if he's close to a winning moment, is how you help a guy prove himself to management. Cesaro doesn't need to be a good talker on the mic either, what he said to Owens sufficed, and hell I look forward to a possible Cesaro/Owens feud if it can happen, oh please let it happen. Won't lie this match was worth having to get through most of that RAW overall, b/c first two hours were just a bit tough to get through. 3rd hour actually went off really nicely for a change.

Other cool thing I noticed, we were in Chicago tonight, and they didn't outright boo Roman Reigns. They were actually fairly warm to him, not that they didn't really end up liking that he was fighting Sheamus, but like seriously I did not expect warm reaction from Chicago for Reigns. Pulling back on his super push he was getting does make all the difference. Also, I'm surprised that Rusev is healed so soon. I figured he might be out another 3-4 weeks from how it was looking, but heck this means he can have a match with Ziggler at Battleground at least.

Also someone directed me to this:
CJSZJYCWsAA1-aP.png:large

Kayfabe and reality being the same is still real to Jamie Noble.
 
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Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
So how many times has Paige lost to Team Bella now? It's literally the same match every RAW now. Paige fights the Bellas and Alicia Fox, the wannabe Bella and loses with nobody coming out to do anything. What is the point of this feud? What and who are we waiting for? This is why the Divas division sucks so much. You have other divas besides Paige and Naomi to face the Bellas don't you? I don't see why these two are the only ones to fight them. Paige almost looks like a jobber now.

I did enjoy the Dolph Ziggler and Rusev segment. Finally got some heat on Rusev after making him look so weak these past few RAW episodes. The Brock Lesnar segments were good with him destroying the car, and they kept it out for the world to see. I really enjoyed they showed those pictures of Kane on vacation. I wish we got to see video packages of Kane in Hawaii. That would have actually have been fun seeing Kane live on vacation. I've also liked what they've done with Ryback. He's doing good as the IC Champion. As for the Bray Wyatt feud with Roman Reigns...It's still good but like the Paige jobbing matches, it's becoming the same thing now. Roman Reigns gets distracted by some Wyatt mind game and loses a match. I don't mind the mind games but maybe we can do them at different times on the show. Always during a match to the point I can predict when they are about to happen.

R-Truth vs King Barret. Neither of these guys are going anywhere. I got a laugh out of Titus on commentary with JBL. Putting the announcer in his place. I want to see more dynamics like that. John Cena and Cesaro had a amazing match last night. Cesaro was over, I can't believe they haven't given him a bigger push. I'm calling him as the new Dolph Ziggler that fans get behind and demand a push. The ending was hilarious. Cena wins, his theme plays, Kevin Owns comes in, Cena gives him the AA, his theme plays again like nothing happened. Typical John Cena, but how they did it had me rolling with laughter. So overall a pretty good RAW for the most part. Seth Rollins can sure run fast, but I guess Brock Lesnar chasing anyone will get you moving, LOL.
 

Laser Shuckle

Well-Known Member
Lesnar destroying that car was priceless! They really hit a home run with that segment. I mean he ripped the door clean off and flung it like it was nothing. Lesnar is the man! Proving once again that it's impossible to go wrong having Brock simply destroy everything in sight. And I'm glad he brought back the kimura (Sp?) lock too. I just wish they gave Lesnar himself some time to talk, but oh well.

Big props for Cesaro, this is just another night where it's proven that Vince is an idiot and was wrong about him. These last two matches really improved Cesaro's stock him being close to Cena throughout two great matches have done more for him than all the crap he did before he started teaming with Kidd.

No kidding; I don't understand why they don't push the guy... He has the look, in-ring skills and he cut a solid promo that made him look like he belonged in that main event. And to anyone who thinks he can't talk, You'd be pretty horrid in that department too if you were given no time at all to practice on the big stage. Also really impressed with Rusev and how far he's come. Here's hoping for a quick recovery on his part.
 

celestial phantom

Well-Known Member
They really have a thin line of Divas that they can just throw out there plat. I really....really am just waiting each week for like Charlotte or even Sasha to show up, and side with Paige or just side as Anti-Bella. I don't really like Naomi nor Tamina too much, but I'm at least fine with Naomi on occasion, so I hope this isn't building to a 6 diva match of team Bella vs Paige, Naomi, and Tamina. Tbh, I actually hope they just keep the battle lines drawn for the divas, and stop having some of them randomly flip flop for matches. We have:

Team Bella: Nikki (Queen Bee), Brie (Sister Bee), Foxy (Pls start doing the random thing again Foxy)

Anti-Bella: Paige

Anti-Everyone: Naomi, Tamina

Everyone Else Doing Nothing: Summer (Random stuff with Rusev), Layla (is she injured again?), Lana (non wrestler), Emma (I have no idea if she is still main roster or not, also she's heel at least in NXT), Nattie (Probably tending to Tyson since....dude's injury apparently is/was/is a potential career ender).

Really hoping that it's Sasha and Charlotte to join Paige in an Anti-Bella role, at least Charlotte can add to the Face ranks (which Divas lack), and Sasha can eventually turn on them after, and they can actually diversify the Divas division.

Also, Beast in the East, Jericho once again proves he's still got it and shows little ring rust, though not doing this regularly was able to show a bit in his match with Neville. I don't care Neville lost, it was a good match, and was a hell of a performance by both guys. The Brock Kofi match was lol, probably what we all should have expected as a "message to Rollins". I won't lie when Kofi got some offense in, I was like, "Oh Kofi isn't going to just get squashed", but when Brock shrugged everything off and caught up with him with the Germans, I went, "AWWWWW.....HE GONNA KILL KOFI" in like a Kel voice from the old show Kenan and Kel.

Balor vs Owens was pretty damn cool. I still wasn't sure who would win this, though I was firmly behind Balor, b/c it would be cool seeing him pull it off there in Japan. LOVED THEY THREW STREAMERS BEFORE THE MATCH. Loved that. Also Owens is just the best dang heel they have with how he's being allowed to do what makes heels hated (throwing that bouquet that's a show of respect for the guys was brilliant). Overall the match felt a bit lackluster, but it was a very good match overall, and while it was a bit lagging in some ways (I wonder, why did they just leave that huge pile of streamers at ring side, isn't that kind of a risk if they got their feet tangled in them while moving around?), but I loved it. Wanted to see Balor win with a "new" finisher maybe, b/c I don't think the Coup De Grace is a long term one for him.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
I like the Coup De Grace it's a pretty brutal move, he can use Bloody Sunday as his secondary move or maybe even the SlingBlade. I think the Slingblade can work well, can be like the RKO in a way as it's a very exciting move to watch in person and Balor does it pretty good it's not as crisp as Tanahashi's version but it is miles ahead of how Rollins does it.

I don't get this whole Team Paige vs Team Bella thing, Paige complains on tv that she's not like the bellas and doesn't want to be like them but is still apart of total divas? Kinda defeats the point of the gimmick/feud whatever it is. I don't want Charlotte or Sasha brought up via this feud, because they'll play second fiddle to Paige which doesn't make sense with either of their NXT gimmicks at all. Just let it be Paige/Naomi/Tamina vs The Bellas and Foxy and just leave it at that, and let the NXT girls come up to Main Roster when they're ready to with their own storylines, I thnk Charlotte will be up really soon and I think Sasha still needs some time on NXT there's a few feuds there that she hasn't had or hasn't finished that needs to happen. Plus them being up right now won't change how the Divas are handled on Main Roster, it will just waste the talent of both woman.
 

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
Won't lie, I dunno much about Texano nor has he made much of an impact on me, but I guess he's just there for name value from AAA. Didn't mind Chavo so much

Well yeah, my issue with Texano is more based on him coming in with no direction or purpose and picking up wins/t.v. time rather than because he's a mediocre wrestler like the others I listed. As for Chavo, he had the potential to be something cool, but I feel like he came in at the wrong time. He should have been Cueto's right hand man from the get go, with some kind of spiced up character like Big Ryck got.(like, a newer character for chavo, not that he should be treated as a muscle bound freak with an eyepatch lol)

I like how they are handling Alberto and Morrison though, having nice spots on the cards, but aren't entirely lost without direction. I won't lie, I had to look it up when you mentioned him, but I had no idea that it was Judas Mesias that was under the Mil Muertes mask. Things overall have been solid for the promotion, so I think they'll do well, just let's hope they don't end up pushing too many former WWE/TNA guys if they show up into top spots they probably don't deserve, or should have. I hope there's another season to LU, as the matches have been pretty great so far, fair hit and misses, but in the bigger situations they seem to pull all the stops and give at least something worth talking about. I hope that's enough reason, however I think they might be have been going overboard on "special gimmick" matches over the last few months. They should pull back on some of these in the future.

Yep, Mundo and Patron are handled perfectly. They don't even show up that often, but when they do its as part of a storyline and something feels like it's on the line.

On note of gimmick matches, I don't mind them too much. That said, the matches that I've liked from the company so far are ironically the match types that exist in other companies. Like the three way ladder match between puma/mundo/Ryck, or especially the cage match between Cuerno/Mundo. The concept isn't any different, but the spots are sooooo ingenious and practically re-invent the match type itself.

Also yeah, I learned about Mesias just like a week ago myself. Idk if he's gotten way more jacked, or the fellow luchadors smaller size makes him look bigger, but I never would have guessed it was mesias under the mask. The lack of the weird "pupil-less" contacts helps separate him too.
 

Mye

Someone has to win..
[video=youtube;oMnKYkCWAJc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMnKYkCWAJc[/video]

Never thought I'd say this, but I can now see why Damien Sandow was a bust in WWE. The guy never shuts up.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
So the NJPW guys trying out for WWE was false. But Tatsumi Fujinami's son tried out as well as former X Division Champion Sanada, along with 2 others including a girl. I don't know how good the other people trying out are and Fujinami's son is but I know Sanada is pretty good and would be a solid addition to the roster.
 

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
I think it was just a work. He plays a different character every interview he does, like his one's with sam Roberts for instance.(not that it wasn't annoying)
 
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