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The Official WWE/AEW Thread, Brother!

Mye

Someone has to win..
Yeah, you're kinda ignoring the fact that NXT has had some of the best divas matches period in the past 3 years. While it is developmental, that doesn't mean it can't be good. Having Eva Marie down there only ruins it, as despite this "training" she received from Kendrick it's clear that she doesn't have too much wrestling skill (look at the match she had on NXT, and compare it to when she first debuted on raw, and minus her getting up at 1-counts and non-selling every move she looks exactly the same). Paige/Emma/Summer Rae built NXT into something that made people want to watch it, if only because it was the only thing on TV that had constant 5-star divas matches. When they left, Sasha Banks/Charlotte took over and continued this. With the next batch of divas called up, it's starting to feel like the talent pool is getting barren down there with Bayley being the only "good" one (mind you, there's a very high chance she'll be called up when they start promoting be-a-star in October). Until Eva Marie/Alexa Bliss do the improbable task of proving me otherwise, NXT's divas have officially become unwatchable.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
Yeah, you're kinda ignoring the fact that NXT has had some of the best divas matches period in the past 3 years. While it is developmental, that doesn't mean it can't be good. Having Eva Marie down there only ruins it, as despite this "training" she received from Kendrick it's clear that she doesn't have too much wrestling skill (look at the match she had on NXT, and compare it to when she first debuted on raw, and minus her getting up at 1-counts and non-selling every move she looks exactly the same). Paige/Emma/Summer Rae built NXT into something that made people want to watch it, if only because it was the only thing on TV that had constant 5-star divas matches. When they left, Sasha Banks/Charlotte took over and continued this. With the next batch of divas called up, it's starting to feel like the talent pool is getting barren down there with Bayley being the only "good" one (mind you, there's a very high chance she'll be called up when they start promoting be-a-star in October). Until Eva Marie/Alexa Bliss do the improbable task of proving me otherwise, NXT's divas have officially become unwatchable.

I haven't watched this weeks NXT episode yet so I can't comment on Eva Marie I would hope after all the buildup she has at least improved a little bit , I agree that she should be on the main roster but I see why she's down there to get more training, I always thought she was more fit for a manager role or announcer like JoJo. I think Alexa Bliss is very green too, but she has a chance to be really right now we got Bayley/Emma to carry it for the next few months and hope these other girls catch up or new ones that get added into the mix. They're being trained by Sara Del Ray, so i'm confident she can make any of them into at least decent talents within a a year or two of training. The Rock's cousin is supposed to be starting soon, she seems like she's going to be the monster heel diva that they haven't had since Beth and Awesome Kong. I think they will build around Bayley and give her a well deserved run with the title as I see this Diva's revolution running for a long time. I agree with you also with there being a talent drop off for the woman's division for NXT that should be expected when you take the top three girls and don't have anyone to replace them with that's ready to fill their roles. It's like if they took Joe/Balor/Breeze and left the main event scene there with not much to work with.
 
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Laser Shuckle

Well-Known Member
Yeah guys Rollins will beat Cena at Summerslam... Just like how Owens beat him at Battleground for the U.S. Title!

I hope Owens is watching Bray Wyatt's pointless midcard career of going from meandering feud to meandering feud with no real direction or purpose. He may want to take notes for his next several years.

^ I bet they've already given him a rough draft.
 

Mye

Someone has to win..
Yeah, the difference is that if you took any of those guys out of the NXT title picture, you'd still have guys who "could" seem credible (Kendrick/Rhyno/Baron Corbin being 3 guys who could be pretty decent in that role). With the current women's picture, you could literally bring in anyone from the main roster (even the lesser-used ones like Cameron/Layla/Rosa) and they'd instantly look more credible than the ones they have right now. You also took my comment on Eva Marie going to the main roster slightly out of context. As of right now, the divas on the main roster are pretty bad with the 3 call-ups just starting to salvage that mess. If she was brought up, she'd either blend right in or get as much reaction as roman reigns did pre-WM, both things not exactly being bad. I really would suggest watching that NXT episode though, if only for that one match. It's one of those things that after seeing it in its entirety, I still couldn't believe that it was THAT bad (like when they did the El Torito/Matadores vs 3MB/Hornswoggle feud).
 

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
I don't really think the divas roster was all that bad tbh. This is completely and utterly a hunch on my part, but despite the 100's of "opportunities" they've gotten(aka feuds with zero story behind them and 3 minute matches every raw), that for many of the divas, if they got the time/story that the NXT divas got, people would be calling them the greatest divas on the face of the planet.

I mean the bellas, for my money, were some of the most underrated performers the second they came back to WWE. They can play face/heel on the drop of a dime(...and have to lol), are solid in the ring, and...okay they're improving on the mic I'll give you that. Paige is obviously good, and I find it hilarious she is now trashed in her WWE run, as if something magical changed from her time as "greatest diva ever" in NXT. Natalya imo is the best female wrestler probably on the planet right now, but is relegated to Total Divas and has had a lackluster WWE run if I've ever seen one. Which, I can understand that 3rd generation talents don't usually have the "10" look that WWE wants right now, but it just so happens that she's hot as hell too, so I don't get WWE's hesitance to push her. Naomi is constantly upping her game every week and, if the division actually had some momentum behind it, I think a lot of her promos wouldn't fall on such deaf ears. Both Emma and Summer Rae are solid, though Summer is being used so I can't complain about that.

Sure there's a lot of trash, like Rosa, Fox(who I like but is just....bad in the ring), and cameron. But the same can be said for the male roster, if not moreso. My point being, the issue with the division has never been its lack of depth, its ALWAYS been the machine behind them. And it's one thing when the machine doesn't get behind you, but its another when it goes out of its way to submerge you under a 1000 feet of ocean and buries you in the sand. Here's to hoping WWE doesn't screw up its 50th "were thinking about reviving the (insert tag/diva/any non heavy title scene here)" plan.
 

Sid87

I love shiny pokemon
So I have decided that I don't watch enough old PPVs on WWE Network. To rectify this, I came up with a random number generator system to pick me any of the available WWE, WCW, and ECW shows on the Network. As I watch them, I decided to take notes and share them; and here's the first one that came up in my system:

IN YOUR HOUSE: BEST FRIENDS, BETTER ENEMIES
-April 28, 1996
-Omaha, Nebraska
-Commentary: Jerry Lawler and Vince McMahon

-Oh man... mid-1990's WWE. Right off the bat, the Network is giving me what I am sure will be the epitome of Pay-Per-View quality. I immediately hope I get a classic from this era; something like Savio Vega vs The Roadie or some such. Throughout the show, I repeatedly hear about THE NEW GENERATION, so... yeah. It's THAT era.

-This is actually a noteworthy show for a minor reason: It was the last televised performances by Razor Ramon and Diesel before they left to head to the fat contracts of WCW.

-I immediately recognize the old In Your House set that everyone came through. If I recall right, they only ever actually gave away a home on the very first one of these rights? The others kept the name, but not the concept of giving away real estate property. I wonder what happened to the family who won that home on the first IYH... I bet they lost it... (I did the research here.... turns out they sold the house within the year to pay for the winner's future college education. Better story than I would have thought. Good for them!).

1. Davey Boy Smith (w/ Owen Hart, Jim Cornette, and Clarence Mason) vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts

-That's right, WWE Universe! It's THE NEW GENERATION! Featuring Jake Roberts! Not like those fogeys out in WCW!

-Before the match can start, Clarence Mason presents a legal brief to the referee noting that Jake's snake has been legally barred from ringside. Jake shows everyone what he thinks of this injunction, and sics the snake on EVERYONE, including the referee. Cornette faints from the snake's fearful presence, and Lawler tells Vince to hit the ring and perform CPR. Vince, in his quieter, "realer", not-announcerer voice, says "Well he'll die if we have to rely on that".

Jake ends up taking the snake back to the dressing room, only to return with Ahmed Johnson. Is that racist? Like, "Hey, I put away my snake, but I found this black guy. Is he okay? Is that a fair swap?"

Without any warning or announcement, the match is now a tag team match, which I only notice because Jake starts wrestling Owen, and Owen eventually tags Davey Boy.

1a. Davey Boy Smith & Owen Hart vs. Jake Roberts & Ahmed Johnson

-They are running an angle where Davey is scared of Ahmed, and it's highlighted by Davey tagging in from Owen, only to see Jake immediately tag Ahmed. Davey then rushes back to his corner, tags in an unaware Owen, and tells his brother-in-law that it's all him. Owen, somewhat annoyed and resigned, re-enters the match.

The fans LOVE Jake, and chant for him and the DDT the whole match. Conversely, they especially hate Bulldog, though, who has some bizarrely impressive heat here, and is jawing with ringside fans who really are letting him have it.

Jerry Lawler makes a timeless Spuds McKenzie reference in regards to Davey.

The match is perfectly inoffensive for the most part, if unremarkable. The ending is bizarre, though. Bulldogs cracks Jake in the knee with Cornette's tennis racket, and then places Jake in... almost a leg lock? He just picks up the leg as if he wants to apply a half-crab, but he just holds the leg up like that; he never turns it into a move. Jake submits to Bulldog just... holding his leg up, and that's the match. This is the guy who, in about 2 or 3 months, would be in the King of the Ring final. Surrendering to what appears to be the thought of a move being applied.

Rating: **


2. Goldust (with Marlena and an unnamed bodyguard) vs. The Ultimate Warrior - Intercontinental Title Match

-That's right, WWE Universe! It's THE NEW GENERATION! Featuring The Ultimate Warrior! Not like those fogeys out in WCW!

-So this is just a REALLY LONG encounter that never really becomes a match. Goldust has a Big Fat Guy bodyguard who apparently had never been seen before, and I don't recall it being a thing, so maybe he never appeared again. After entering first, Goldust tries to run away when Warrior comes out. Warrior taunts Goldust and his entourage by grabbing the wig, robe, director's chair, and Marlena's abandoned cigar, then proceeds to just... sit in the ring and wait. The high point of all this is the Unnamed Bodyguard yelling out, very emphatically, "HE'S GOT THE CHAIR!". Because Marlena's chair is the secret to all Goldust's power, natch.

Vince insists to the audience at home that Warrior doesn't smoke, AS HE IS PUFFING AWAY ON MARLENA'S CIGAR.

Goldust comes back to ringside, tortured by Warrior's playing with his stuff, and then grabs a microphone. He threatens to kiss everyone in the crowd if they don't shut up, prompting what I BELIEVE to be a "faggot!" chant. Were there no women in the crowd? Huh. Omaha is a sausage fest.

This sequence drags on FOREVER. Goldust gets in the ring, Warrior puts the gold robe back on him, he sits in his chair, and then Warrior puts the cigar out on his hand. At this, Goldust flees for good, ending this charade in a countout. The crowd seems really annoyed by all this sound and fury signifying nothing, but Warrior chases down the bodyguard and hits a few moves and the Big Splash on him so they'll cheer up.

Rating: No. No rating.


Cut to a segment in the back with British Bulldog standing outside Shawn Michaels' locker room and yelling something about his own wife.


3. Vader (with Jim Cornette) vs. Razor Ramon

-Lawler notes the absence of Clarence Mason, and tells McMahon that Mason could sue the pants off of him. Vince again reverts to his "real" voice and says "I'm sure he could". You stab at those evil lawyers with your zany midcard characters, Vince!

-The early going of this match is ALL punches. Punch, punch, punch by both guys, all day long.

This is a REALLY boring match, with Vader actually showing some fear of Razor, which makes no sense as Vader was the new Big Monster, gearing up to be a main event challenger, and Razor was on his way out of town. Why not just book a squash here? As it is, this goes on way too long, and makes Vader look terrible. He hides outside the ring a good 30 seconds, with only a few half roll-ins to break up the counts.

Neither guy really seems to care here, and they both appear to be going at no better than 70%. This just seems like a casual exhibition; it's nothing worth watching. Razor DOES kick out of the Vader Bomb, though, and again... WHY? Why book Razor strong here? There's no sense to it.

Vader wins an overly long, joyless match with... a sit-out? Razor kicks out of the finisher, just to later be felled by a simple sit-out? Maybe the era is just different now where even FINISHERS aren't Finishers, but this is the second match of this PPV to end on, essentially, a non-move.

Rating: * 3/4


4. The Body Donnas (with Sunny) vs The Godwinns (with Hillbilly Jim) - World Tag Team Title Match

-Godwinns get the ol' "Already In The Ring" entrance.

-This was during the angle where Phinneas was obsessed with Sunny, and would do anything for her. Wouldn't we all back in 1996, Phinneas? Wouldn't we all?

-Holy god, the Godwinns were ENORMOUS. Not that the Body Donnas were large dudes, but Henry and Phinneas tower over them! I really didn't remember thinking they were so big back in the day.

-Jerry Lawler makes a TON of hometown crowd jokes in this one, and... why? The audience in attendance can't hear him, and the TV crowd doesn't care if Lawler thinks people from Omaha are hillbillies. For whose benefit is this?

The match goes along as it is wont to do, and it ultimately ends with the Body Donnas retaining with a Twin Magic roll-up, after Henry chides Phinneas for accepting an autographed photo from Sunny. It's not a BAD match, actually, with some nice skill/speed vs power moments, and a Frankensteiner from Skip. But it's as relevant and impactful as you expect from a match involving these 4 guys.

Rating: ** 1/4


5. Shawn Michaels vs Diesel - World Title Match

-Shawn sells the "I HATE THIS GUY" emotions of the match by foregoing his usual entrance routine to rush the ring and just start assaulting Big Daddy Cool. Great intensity in the opening sequence, as Shawn just relentless attacks Diesel, ducks all his offense, gets the big guy to the outside, and hits a top-rope moonsault to the floor... all in the first 2 minutes!

Diesel has issues with Vince throughout the match, playing up the [unknown?] fact that he was leaving WWF? He throws his vest at Vince from inside the ring and wanders over to the announcer side of the ring to yell at him a few times.

A nice heel sequence sees Diesel remove his wrist-tape... so he can choke out THE REFEREE with it! He then takes off Hebner's belt, whips Shawn with it, tightens it around HBK's throat, and then throws him over the top rope and hangs him there by it. Pretty awesome, really.

On the outside, Diesel hits the Jackknife through the announce table, back when that table was just a folding table. This thankfully robs us of commentary for a few minutes (seriously, Vince and Lawler were putridly bad this whole show, and just had zero chemistry together).

Proving that even the 90's loved false finishes, Shawn punches his way out of a Jackknife, then tries Sweet Chin Music, which Diesel just catches.

This match moves along at a breakneck speed! It's just all energy and pop and excitement from the beginning. There's only one resthold the entire match, and it is short-lived (a stupid neck-twist by Diesel).

OH ****, this is the match where Diesel finds Mad Dog Vachon in the audience and takes off his prosthetic leg to use against HBK. I had forgotten about that. It's kind of tasteless, but really creative. Before Diesel can do anything, Shawn gets the leg from him and clobbers him with it. One superkick later, and Shawn retains the title.

Rating: **** 1/4 (could have been a bit longer, but it was a great match for the era)


Overall show rating: 4/10. Come for the main event that really delivers; stay for... hm. Just the main event. There's really nothing else to see here. But Shawn/Diesel is a gem. The rest of it is just typical mid-90's WWE. Nothing feels important, and the characters are just silly. When the second-best match of the night is just a typical Godwinns/Body Donnas encounter... that's not good, ya know?
 

Mye

Someone has to win..
Apparently WWE cut ties with Terry Hogan, again. I get that they're zero-tolerance and everything (even though plenty of people got away with way worse over the years), but considering he's done so much as a global ambassador with them over the past year (signing Kenta's contract in Tokyo, being on Tough Enough/at WM, helping elevate guys like Axel pre-WM) it looks more like Vince trying to slap Hogan in the face one more time than anything.
 

Sid87

I love shiny pokemon
Apparently WWE cut ties with Terry Hogan, again. I get that they're zero-tolerance and everything (even though plenty of people got away with way worse over the years), but considering he's done so much as a global ambassador with them over the past year (signing Kenta's contract in Tokyo, being on Tough Enough/at WM, helping elevate guys like Axel pre-WM) it looks more like Vince trying to slap Hogan in the face one more time than anything.

In 2015, repeatedly saying "F*'n N*'s" is pretty damn bad. And in conjuction with how he's basically disowning his daughter because she's dating a black man? That's pretty egregious. I get that this is a BIG move given that it's Hogan, but you can't have your business associated with that in 2015.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
In 2015, repeatedly saying "F*'n N*'s" is pretty damn bad. And in conjuction with how he's basically disowning his daughter because she's dating a black man? That's pretty egregious. I get that this is a BIG move given that it's Hogan, but you can't have your business associated with that in 2015.

Or in any year really, no tolerance for people who use that word at all. Sucks for WWE as he's a judge on Tough Enough and is a big media draw for the company but it had to be done. I agree with you 100% on it.

He can't be a global ambassador when he's an admitted racist Mye, it's not a slap in the face from Vince to Hogan at all, it's more like Hogan letting down the company that paid him and all his fans who've supported him all this time.
 

celestial phantom

Well-Known Member
Goldust comes back to ringside, tortured by Warrior's playing with his stuff, and then grabs a microphone. He threatens to kiss everyone in the crowd if they don't shut up, prompting what I BELIEVE to be a "faggot!" chant. Were there no women in the crowd? Huh. Omaha is a sausage fest.

I won't lie, being from said state, but this would be pretty damn par for the course from most of the people here. Especially in a time 20 years ago, where a lot more people would be vocal about it in the face of said person whether they were black, gay, etc. any kind of different. I wouldn't expect any less they would chant that. At least now a days, some people are willing to be a bit more conservative with their racism/hate on people.

Won't lie, but if you are going to be doing the "In Your House" shows, as far as I can remember about a lot of them, the only things that were ever any good were the main events, and occasionally the tag matches when they were given some time. Though I look forward to any you might do on some older WCW ones before the NWO hit, a few matches from certain PPVs have interested me, but I've never bothered to watch them.

Not surprised that they let Hulk go with them being a publicly traded company and all, so it really would be a slap in the face to have a "global ambassador" getting away with having him go on this little tirade, and not expect something out of it. So having something like this surface would be a little awkward to keep him around in that position.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
So who's the new judge for Tough Enough now that Hogan's in the same boat as the other guy who we can't talk about. What was his name? Chris...something. Not Masters or Jericho but something. Anyway I am just curious, does this mean Hogan's kicked out of the Hall of Fame now?
 

Mye

Someone has to win..
While it would normally be the case to argue that what they did was right, let's not forget that Hogan's really old (61) and is easily the biggest draw to wrestling period. Them removing him from the HoF/terminating him/removing all mention from him on their media looks like a pretty rushed error, as in 6 months people will probably forget about this much the way they have when other guys have done worse stuff (look on youtube, and you'll find tons of videos of people discussing all the bad stuff wrestlers have done over the years). Terry Hogan doing that racist sh't was bad, but them doing this was a bit bigger of a mistake imo. Would not be surprised if he signs with something like new japan in 4-5 months and gives'm a boost in ticket sales.

Edit: From what I read, Hogan was fired, removed from the WWE hall of fame, and had all merchandise/video removed from their website. Also, I think I know the guy you're referring to platinum. Been watching Archer though so my mind is full of nothing but those jokes (like when he went to france, and kept saying "balls" after that guy's name).
 
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ger9119

Well-Known Member
New Japan won't sign him lmao don't say that if you don't know how the company signs talent. They only sign guys who can wrestle and work matches not sideshows like Hogan that's something TNA does. New Japan doesn't need any help to pack shows and sell out places in Japan where they are located. Hogan hasn't been a draw since 1997 let's not overplay his value, he's the same as any older guy making appearances and honestly Rock/Austin are bigger draws and so is Cena all three have had bigger shows and more long term longevity.

So removing a racist from your company totally
is worse than actually being racist? That's ridiculous Mye. He's getting the proper punishment as anyone who is that way deserves to be treated. They can't remove him from HOF or the network but they can try and limit how much he is on and mentioned. His merch and videos should be removed he's a piece of crap and allways has been (Warrior and others have said so) and he's a racist how can you sell and support a guy like that
 
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Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
I'm sure TNA would be more then happy to sign Hulk Hogan again. Even though he's one of the reasons it's in the sorry state it's in. Still, I bet they are jumping to have Hogan back on Impact. I wonder what Curtis Axel's new gimmick will be? Oh well, he's not on TV anyway.
 

celestial phantom

Well-Known Member
So, I watched this week's NXT, and I have to say....the Eva Marie match wasn't that bad. I know I've seen many worse women's matches. A few from WWE that come to mind is most matches that involved Kelly Kelly and co. which were on this level, thus making it still fairly bad, this one match on the Divas version of original NXT between like Maxine and Kaitlyn? I think it was those two, and who can ever forget that one Jackie Gayda match with Trish Stratus. This was easily better than the latter two. Eva's obviously still green, and her movements are slow, but at least she's selling moves better, one thing I'm going to criticize is that stretch lock she tried to do, where it looked like she was trying to pose for a photo shoot or something, with her posture and movements. She's still bad, but she'll need to actually break into regular movements which can only be done through working a fair amount of matches regularly. If I recall, she's going to be/is hitting the side of 30+ soon, so they don't really have a chance besides making her go all out if they want to milk whatever exposure they can get off her within the next year or two, and make that last for an extra couple years. Sucks, but I'd say there's still hope for her actually, she just needs to actually adjust into actual ring movements.

Rest of the show was what I expected from it. Baron Corbin defeated a Frieza minion in like 5 seconds. Wonder if he's trying to be Vegeta or something. Samoa Joe has better entrance music now, I really dig it.

Bayley's back, and I'm reminded that Emma is also down in NXT regularly. With this, that means even though Sasha, Charlotte, and Becky move up, we have Bayley and Emma to anchor the division for a while, Alexa is a work in progress, and she's not entirely bad in the ring athletically given to work some psychology would be the best thing (she's probably got some of the largest potential of any current Diva employed by WWE behind Sasha at least age wise, so time is on her side to learn), Carmella....I dunno why, but I like and dislike her all at the same time. I don't like her because really she's just mooching off Zo and Cass' gimmick shtick, she's still green too, and I don't even understand her as a character. But, I don't entirely hate her based on her having some potential...but it's not a lot. Weird. Dana's new, and they have like an influx of new diva talent going to come in I guess. So, we'll just have to see where this leads, but obviously the quality of matches will probably go down as they learn to follow the leads of Bayley and Emma's work rates.

Also, love the Vaudevillians are back to being on the show regularly again. They faced generic collegiate athletes that are mixed race, but aren't Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin Duo #5. I swear, they will slap any guy who has a college wrestling background, with a college wrestler gimmick, pair them up as 1 white guy and 1 black guy, and think, "Hm, do we have the next Haas and Benjamin yet?", because I think we have a good 10+ number of these guys running around and acting as jobber fodder for the most part. At least with a team like Gotch and English, they are different in how they do stuff in a match, that adds a nice amount of variety, even if their marketing potential is lower than what Vince or Dunn wants in their performers, especially because they are short and not heavily built for smaller guys.
 

Laser Shuckle

Well-Known Member
Hogan hasn't been a draw since 1997 let's not overplay his value, he's the same as any older guy making appearances and honestly Rock/Austin are bigger draws and so is Cena all three have had bigger shows and more long term longevity.

^This. Just look at how well TNA was doing with him. I never cared for Hogan either, he's beyond washed up and at the very least now we won't have to sit through another one of his stupid wwe network promos ever again. Good riddance.
 

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
Also, love the Vaudevillians are back to being on the show regularly again. They faced generic collegiate athletes that are mixed race, but aren't Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin Duo #5. I swear, they will slap any guy who has a college wrestling background, with a college wrestler gimmick, pair them up as 1 white guy and 1 black guy, and think, "Hm, do we have the next Haas and Benjamin yet?", because I think we have a good 10+ number of these guys running around and acting as jobber fodder for the most part. At least with a team like Gotch and English, they are different in how they do stuff in a match, that adds a nice amount of variety, even if their marketing potential is lower than what Vince or Dunn wants in their performers, especially because they are short and not heavily built for smaller guys.

I feel really sorry for the Gotch and English, because, they got to witness firsthand the "amazing" call ups of the lucha dragon and especially the ascension. And, while its not a problem that those groups failed(so far), the worst part is, put yourself in Gotch and English's shoes....what do they do different exactly? I mean, that ascension isn't all that talented, but they got flat our buried the second they came to WWE, for seemingly no reason. Same with the lucha dragons, its not like they got any less talented, and hell they even had one helluva debut, but creative just straight up ignored them till everyone else did. There's nothing to learn from, because those aren't mistakes. It has to be quite the burden to know you can work your *** off day and day out only to have zero say in your success.

I'm starting to think that one kid(the picket sign guy), was the only one on the whole NXT male roster that smartened up. He saw that if you don't wrestle in the indies for 10 years and make a name for yourself WWE just won't care. So ironic how different it is from 5 years, especially 10 years ago.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
I feel really sorry for the Gotch and English, because, they got to witness firsthand the "amazing" call ups of the lucha dragon and especially the ascension. And, while its not a problem that those groups failed(so far), the worst part is, put yourself in Gotch and English's shoes....what do they do different exactly? I mean, that ascension isn't all that talented, but they got flat our buried the second they came to WWE, for seemingly no reason. Same with the lucha dragons, its not like they got any less talented, and hell they even had one helluva debut, but creative just straight up ignored them till everyone else did. There's nothing to learn from, because those aren't mistakes. It has to be quite the burden to know you can work your *** off day and day out only to have zero say in your success.

I'm starting to think that one kid(the picket sign guy), was the only one on the whole NXT male roster that smartened up. He saw that if you don't wrestle in the indies for 10 years and make a name for yourself WWE just won't care. So ironic how different it is from 5 years, especially 10 years ago.

I think it's more so that WWE doesn't know how to book tag teams and refuses to book more than two tag teams strongly a month. Because if the indy thing is correct the lucha dragons would be the tag champions right now as both guys have had quality indy career/runs before coming to WWE. The Tag Team division is almost as bad as the divas were booked/handled before this Divas revolution, I think next we need a tag team revolution. Acension flopped because they suck, when they were on NXT there wasn't any quality tag teams and all the wins they had were squashes and then they lost the only two quality feuds they had on NXT (Lucha Dragons and Finn/Hideo) overall in ring wise they are okay but they can't cut a promo and are overall boring performers they haven't had one good match in there entire WWE runs, it took alot for Balor/Itami to get an average match out of them. The Lucha Dragons have been booked okay, as they win here or there and they are slowly getting more over with the fans, while I think Kalisto should breakout as a singles guy since being around Sin Cara is kinda bad (not the wrestler Hunico) but the Sin Cara name itself is cursed.

For example it's all about New Day and PTP the past two months or so, while all the teams lose to them to make those two teams look stronger for that feud while no feuds going for the other teams. This has been the formula for the tag teams recently and it's annoying cause tag team wrestling is something that can be great when done right.

--------------------

Daniel Bryan from a recent radio interview, Thoughts?

The chance that WWE won't clear him to wrestle:

"Yes, there is that chance. But I told them, regardless of them, if they won't clear me ... we're independent contractors, in theory ... and I WILL wrestle again. I am cleared by the neurologist in Phoenix that I've been going to see. It's not like he's a quack doctor. He was the neurologist for the Super Bowl ... who has no problems in clearing me with no limitations. But you also have to understand that WWE is not only looking out for my best interest, but they have to look out for their company as well, and I understand all of that too. There is nothing vindictive or anything there's just a lot of hurdles to go through at this point with getting cleared by WWE. I had a sit-down with Vince and Hunter about this and said, "Hey, this is my passion. I understand why you guys wouldn't clear me but we only get, as far as we know, one life. And you're not going to let me do my passion?"

The specifics of his injuries:

"Well, it's actually not a neck issue, my neck is completely fine. It's more of a concussion issue. And Brie was very hesitant about this whole thing and that's why WWE is very protective over me too. Everyone is more aware of concussions and that's why, with WWE, I don't see what they're doing, as far as making me go through all these hurdles, I don't see that as a negative. They're protecting me and especially in this era of concussion awareness. Brie at first was like, 'Hmm, I'm not sure, given your history.' But when we met with the neurologist in Phoenix and we went through all the testing and he said: 'Ok, all of my testing is not just coming back good, it's coming back excellent.' As far as my brain right now, it's at a level above most people who have never had a concussion my age.

"When you are looking at scores of like: Bad, poor, fair, good, great, excellent -- it's at those great-excellent levels. So all of that to say, she had gone from being very skeptical about it to being very supportive of me being able to wrestle again. And she is someone who will flat out say, 'I'm not just interested in what happens to him 2 years from now or five years from now' and she doesn't care about the money or anything like that, she is interested of where I'm at 20 years from now. The deal with my arm, they told me this because I waited so long to get the surgery, my right arm might never get back to full strength of my left arm. So right now, it's about 85 percent and it hasn't improved much in a while. But because the nerve had been cut off for so long, there is a very good chance that that will never come back. But, it's not like I'm feeble with my right arm. My left hand, and we're going mostly by grip strength because my triceps strength and all that kind of stuff is equal on both sides. My grip strength on my left hand is about 150 pounds of pressure and my grip strength in my right hand is about 130 pounds of pressure. The average male my age is about 100 pounds of pressure. So it's not like I'm 'arrrggghhhhh poor me!'"
 
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-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
I think it's more so that WWE doesn't know how to book tag teams and refuses to book more than two tag teams strongly a month. Because if the indy thing is correct the lucha dragons would be the tag champions right now as both guys have had quality indy career/runs before coming to WWE. The Tag Team division is almost as bad as the divas were booked/handled before this Divas revolution, I think next we need a tag team revolution. Acension flopped because they suck, when they were on NXT there wasn't any quality tag teams and all the wins they had were squashes and then they lost the only two quality feuds they had on NXT (Lucha Dragons and Finn/Hideo) overall in ring wise they are okay but they can't cut a promo and are overall boring performers they haven't had one good match in there entire WWE runs, it took alot for Balor/Itami to get an average match out of them. The Lucha Dragons have been booked okay, as they win here or there and they are slowly getting more over with the fans, while I think Kalisto should breakout as a singles guy since being around Sin Cara is kinda bad (not the wrestler Hunico) but the Sin Cara name itself is cursed.

I mean, no matter how untalented a team/and or superstar is, there's still no way you can deny that WWE screwed the ascension over. If nothing else, WWE giving them such a bad character hurts the other teams that have to work with them, since there's no heat to go around.

As for lucha dragons, I completely agree. I don't know how to feel about hunico to be perfectly honest. Like, a couple years ago he and Ted Dibiase Jr. of all people had like 4 star matches on superstars every week, and it made me a believer in him. So, I KNOW he can go. But like, now when he's with Kalisto he hardly does anything. He barely puts any energy in the lucha chant, and he really only does basic flips and other lucha libre compared to Kalisto's crazy manuvers. IDK, something feels off to me about it, like WWE is specifically telling him "don't overshadow kalisto".

As you said, the Sin cara name is cursed and, its a shame they didn't use his time in NXT prior to the LD formation to just give him a new mask and name. I honestly think if they did, the LD could really be something big. At least as successful as the usos, that's for sure.

For example it's all about New Day and PTP the past two months or so, while all the teams lose to them to make those two teams look stronger for that feud while no feuds going for the other teams. This has been the formula for the tag teams recently and it's annoying cause tag team wrestling is something that can be great when done right.

The New Day never should have lost the titles imo. I have no idea why they did it in the first place. PTP, ever since reforming, has gotten nothing but lukewarm reactions, while the New Day at the time was pretty dang hot. Ironically enough, I feel like PTP is the hunico/kalisto situation. Titus(while still VERY clumsy in the ring), is clearly being held back by Darren who's showed nothing of interest during his whole WWE tenure.

The tag division is just dead in the water, plain and simple. Worst part is it probably won't be long until the one uso is healed and they are back to their stale gimmick for a whole nother plodding title run.

On note of the Daniel Bryan thing. I say good on WWE for doing it. Bryan having the rug pulled from under him with this last run really did some damage to him imo, in terms of the crowds faith in him that is. While he'll certainly get the crowd cheering the heck out of him even if he came back next monday, I think its better to take some time and let that negative stigma wear away as much as they can.

(side-note: Its scary how identifieable bryans mannerisms are. I could have read that without knowing it was Bryan and would have read it in his voice lol)
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
I mean, no matter how untalented a team/and or superstar is, there's still no way you can deny that WWE screwed the ascension over. If nothing else, WWE giving them such a bad character hurts the other teams that have to work with them, since there's no heat to go around.

As for lucha dragons, I completely agree. I don't know how to feel about hunico to be perfectly honest. Like, a couple years ago he and Ted Dibiase Jr. of all people had like 4 star matches on superstars every week, and it made me a believer in him. So, I KNOW he can go. But like, now when he's with Kalisto he hardly does anything. He barely puts any energy in the lucha chant, and he really only does basic flips and other lucha libre compared to Kalisto's crazy manuvers. IDK, something feels off to me about it, like WWE is specifically telling him "don't overshadow kalisto".

As you said, the Sin cara name is cursed and, its a shame they didn't use his time in NXT prior to the LD formation to just give him a new mask and name. I honestly think if they did, the LD could really be something big. At least as successful as the usos, that's for sure.



The New Day never should have lost the titles imo. I have no idea why they did it in the first place. PTP, ever since reforming, has gotten nothing but lukewarm reactions, while the New Day at the time was pretty dang hot. Ironically enough, I feel like PTP is the hunico/kalisto situation. Titus(while still VERY clumsy in the ring), is clearly being held back by Darren who's showed nothing of interest during his whole WWE tenure.

The tag division is just dead in the water, plain and simple. Worst part is it probably won't be long until the one uso is healed and they are back to their stale gimmick for a whole nother plodding title run.

On note of the Daniel Bryan thing. I say good on WWE for doing it. Bryan having the rug pulled from under him with this last run really did some damage to him imo, in terms of the crowds faith in him that is. While he'll certainly get the crowd cheering the heck out of him even if he came back next monday, I think its better to take some time and let that negative stigma wear away as much as they can.

(side-note: Its scary how identifieable bryans mannerisms are. I could have read that without knowing it was Bryan and would have read it in his voice lol)

I agree with you on everything you said 100%. Would've loved if they repackaged Hunico would've made the LDs not seem so thrown together. Hopefully the Usos come back as heels, they were heels when they debuted but haven't been in years so that should freshen them up. I think PTP was supposed to be a transitional run to get the belts on Harper/Rowan but Rowan got hurt so now they are stuck with PTP even though the feud with New Day has been pretty solid, I think the New Day should've had a nice six month or so title run honestly they would've easily been one of the top heels in WWE by that time.
 
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