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The Official WWE/AEW Thread, Brother!

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
I think the term "buried" gets thrown around a lot when it maybe shouldn't, but Roman BURIED AJ last night. Not only did he take everything AJ had, but he took the Bullet Club's attack and finisher, too. And AJ didn't even do the "No, I won't win like this!" thing after they assaulted him; he went straight after Reigns, and Reigns STILL won.

I mean....no? Lol. AJ beat Roman not once but twice in the match. In addition, he didn't even know of the Gallows/Anderson attack so it wasn't a 3 on 1 situation, as he wasn't able to capitalize on it. It was 100% implied that A.J. had Roman's number and Roman only won due to the match restarts. Roman couldn't even get in the ring to the count of a 10 after A.J. murdered him on the announce table.


To me, Payback was just WWE saying "Buckle in everyone, here's the next 10+ years. Roman as a perpetual babyface, going over everybody all the time".

Two things on this. Firstly, people complain about WWE's start/stop pushing all the time, but they are at least consistent with Roman. Also kinda hard to be the face of the company when you lose all the time or aren't protected. Ever since becoming the "american hero", Cena was incredibly well protected, perhaps moreso than anyone else of his generation like Edge,Orton or Batista. And to WWE's credit, Cena is the biggest star since the attitude era.

Secondly, Roman clearly wrestled that match with a lot of heel tendencies. I would not be surprised if WWE is going to simply book Roman as a tweener from now on, instead of forcing him as a face.
 

Sid87

I love shiny pokemon
I mean....no? Lol. AJ beat Roman not once but twice in the match. In addition, he didn't even know of the Gallows/Anderson attack so it wasn't a 3 on 1 situation, as he wasn't able to capitalize on it. It was 100% implied that A.J. had Roman's number and Roman only won due to the match restarts. Roman couldn't even get in the ring to the count of a 10 after A.J. murdered him on the announce table.

He "won" by a countout (which we never see) and a DQ via lowblow (which we almost never see). Those finishes were such contrived BS that NO ONE bit on them; everyone knew the match was going to continue, so they were pointless fakeouts. Also, they weren't wins that would have given AJ the title, so even if you're foolish enough to look at those and go "OMG AJ ONE!", then he still lost. Who cares about not winning the title?

And it very much was a 3-on-1. AJ didn't stop Bullet Club. He didn't delay anything he did in turmoil over taking advantage of what they did. They hit their finisher, then AJ hit his, and Roman STILL got out. There is precisely zero chance anyone buys that AJ can beat Roman (FOR A 3-COUNT, okay?) now. He and Bulet Club his their finishers and still couldn't keep him down. They are Roman's *****es. And that is a burial.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
He "won" by a countout (which we never see) and a DQ via lowblow (which we almost never see). Those finishes were such contrived BS that NO ONE bit on them; everyone knew the match was going to continue, so they were pointless fakeouts. Also, they weren't wins that would have given AJ the title, so even if you're foolish enough to look at those and go "OMG AJ ONE!", then he still lost. Who cares about not winning the title?

And it very much was a 3-on-1. AJ didn't stop Bullet Club. He didn't delay anything he did in turmoil over taking advantage of what they did. They hit their finisher, then AJ hit his, and Roman STILL got out. There is precisely zero chance anyone buys that AJ can beat Roman (FOR A 3-COUNT, okay?) now. He and Bulet Club his their finishers and still couldn't keep him down. They are Roman's *****es. And that is a burial.

You're using the word burial wrong, you can't be buried in a competivie match like that Zack Ryder was buried AJ Style wasn't. Yeah he took everything he had, but Roman dished out just as much, you didn't complain about Jericho kicking out of his moves or when Nakamura kicked out of them at WK10 but all of a sudden Roman does it and it's the worse thing ever. Roman is a proven main event guy (even if you dislike him, that's his spot on the roster) while AJ while having the known history wasn't an established main eventer in WWE yet and that match for sure established him as a main eventer now. Yeah Roman won with a Spear, but AJ got right back up after it and walked up the ramp to end show just showing that Roman got a good shot in to win the match while maintaining they are very close and equals they did just as much to protect AJ as they did Roman, he barely got to the ropes on at least one or two of the moves. And it continues one of the best feuds they've had in awhile as it's pretty unpredictable along with them beating Roman/Usos clean on Raw which shows them as the superior unit. Roman acted like a heel the whole PPV match and to end the show last night. If it was anyone but Roman or Cena you would be talking about how great the match was. Burial is what happened to Zack Ryder, Swagger etc losing a main event balanced title match isn't and he's still featured in the main event next month lmao stop it. Honestly hope they continue with this tweener Roman as it's really good and will only be better once they fully embrace it.
 
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EspNeon

Badge Collector
I think Reign's is not over partially because of his in ring and microphone abilities; compared to other superstars on the roster he isn't particularly the strongest.

I also think and this is just my personal perception, that the way Reigns is being booked is also a contributor. Fans were massively behind Punk and when he left the figurative torch was passed to Bryan. Bryan then went on to have a major Wrestlemania moment at WM30 but then had to relinquish the title due to injury. Bryan's return was around the 2015 Royal Rumble and fans wanted him to win so that he could go onto Wrestlemania 31 and reclaim the championship. If you rewatch the 2015 Royal Rumble the audience don't really take all that well to Bryan being eliminated early on. Anyone after that point who was not heavily established as a main event star i.e Undertaker, Cena possible Rollins, who went on to win the match was going to receive a negative reaction and it happened to be Reigns.
The fans were given a bone when Reigns defended his main event opportunity against Bryan, giving the illusion that Bryan could still be introduced into the main event but instead he was used to put Reigns 'over'.

I think Reigns has improved since the 2015 Royal Rumble both in the ring and on the mic, sure he still has a way to go but he's improving bit by bit.
 

celestial phantom

Well-Known Member
Wow this place becomes a little active again.

On the whole, I more or less actually enjoyed Payback to a degree on in-ring action, but the story-telling continues to be awful as hell. Corbin/Ziggler getting bumped to the pre-show and Ziggler taking the win via roll up? It's the rookie's worst nightmare, the fact they can't beat roll-ups. And with that Battle Royal spot, Baron absolutely has to maul and decimate Ziggler in some type of ER rules match at the next ppv for him to not completely stall. Which is annoying because so far I like Corbin in his short time on the main roster more than his NXT stint. Ryback/Kalisto was really good too for a match, especially Ryback doing CM Punk's mannerisms. I think this is the type of Ryback we've all wanted to see for a while now, and they put together a fairly good match barring Kalisto almost screwing himself over with that corkscrew if Ryback didn't catch him. However, I thought it was really time to give Ryback some credible run with it, because Kalisto to me just is not cutting it as champ.

The injury to Enzo sucked, and really took away from those of us watching likely in person and online, and it was really tough to get over, but Sami and KO brought people back in with a great match. If anything these guys stole the show and cemented themselves a place that the E should capitalize on pushing. As for the tag picture, Enzo probably won't be cleared for some time, so it makes sense that the Vaudes get the title shot, otherwise this would be like the 4th PPV the tag titles aren't defended at. Even though you could say it's in bad taste after what happened, I also liked the Vaudes using the injury Enzo got to get a bit of heat, it was something sorely missed and lacking from today's product that makes you want to get into it more.

Miz/Cesaro turned out to be somewhat standard fair, as far as Miz matches go, but it extended and got Sami and KO involved (KO is just everywhere tonight, his thing with Saxton having him interview him was awesome), and we're crossing two stories into one for a championship, with 3 guys we care about along with maryse, yay! I wanna see something good for ER between these 4, and NOT A LADDER MATCH. Maybe a fatal four way table elimination match. Ambrose got a win in a good match, albeit a bit too long (but we can't blame that when Zo got injured, so gotta fill time right?) don't need to say more than that. Also, RIP Mitch the potted plant, Jericho is a murderer, Ambrose for justice.

After that started going a bit downhill for me. The matches so far were good, but outside Sami and KO, the story-telling was just meh in retrospective fashion for now. But, starting with Nattie and Charlotte just it went further downhill for me. I just honestly didn't like this match, I mean it was decent, but Ric and Bret looked uninterested in being there, the match itself was alright, but kind of bland, really bland, and c'mon a screwjob using lil naitch in the same fashion that Bret lost? What is this bullsh*t, a screwjob when there's pretty much no heat in this match or feud really? When did I start watching RAW/Nitro circa 1997-99 again? Get Ric the hell out of the divas matches please, just stop it with him. Been kind of pissed for a while now that Charlotte is basically Ric lite, and trying to copy his mannerisms and stuff, it doesn't look natural at f'in all.

I pictured and actually hoped that Vince would give Shane and Steph combined control, that can actually lead to a brand split instead of making it happen. And that's probably what we are gonna get (hopefully?). At least in this way, it lets them create technical friendships and rivalries with their own talents, so it makes more sense when certain superstars side with one mcmahon over the other. Or, if we don't get a brand split and just a match for complete control down the line, same thing on the siding factor.

Main event was pretty damn good in the ring, both men looked phenomenal by the end of it. Bit annoyed that the multiple restarts came to just another way to start the Mcmahon's hand dipping themselves into the main event again. Especially because those stops in the match really hurt the flow, and made it feel disjointed. I'm kind of glad we didn't get some kind of nonsensical swerve with Gallows and Anderson, though I really wanted the Usos to specifically cost AJ the match, that way they can justify that AJ needs Gallows and Anderson to even the odds for AJ against Roman. Maybe we can get something like that for ER then, and maybe it makes a full blown turn for Roman. It would line up almost perfectly if Extreme Rules was one week later, as the following monday is when Cena returns. Would have been oh so perfect on a return night for Cena to come back as we get a new full heel roman or something.
 

Hunter Zolomon

Into the Shadows
Staff member
Moderator
So Ryback probably won't be coming back. I'm guessing? Apparently he pissed off the boss. That's what I'm hearing anyways. I don't know if it's true.
 

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
He "won" by a countout (which we never see) and a DQ via lowblow (which we almost never see). Those finishes were such contrived BS that NO ONE bit on them; everyone knew the match was going to continue, so they were pointless fakeouts. Also, they weren't wins that would have given AJ the title, so even if you're foolish enough to look at those and go "OMG AJ ONE!", then he still lost. Who cares about not winning the title?

I don't understand the idea that WWE can't book something because fans know what happens. If that were the case, cancel the whole damn show. We knew charlotte would win via a dirty method, we knew owens would cost cesaro winning the intercontinental title when he was at ringside, we knew gallows and anderson would interfere in the title match, etc.

As for the two prior DQ wins A.J. got, I can't believe I have to explain the concept of using DQ wins to protect someone, but it goes like this. AJ getting a win or two before the final result of the match, signifies that he was and is capable of beating Roman Reigns. Which is what matters. Yes he wants the title, of course. But these wins show that he is capable of beating Roman if he had another shot where interference didn't take place.

So if all he won with was the nut shot by Roman, I'd get your point. But he didn't, he literally knocked the Champion out so bad he couldn't even answer a 10 count. However that makes a #1 contender look weak or "buried", is beyond me.

There is precisely zero chance anyone buys that AJ can beat Roman (FOR A 3-COUNT, okay?) now. He and Bulet Club his their finishers and still couldn't keep him down. They are Roman's *****es. And that is a burial.

To quote ger a couple posts down, please, just stop. Stop over analyzing ever little detail the second after it happens. Face it, Roman could have got into a tank, and ran over A.J., and so long as Roman won, you'd be complaining. Roman won, this way specifically, for the interest of continuity. There is still another match right after this one at Payback, it will probably be just as fun to watch.

If A.J. gets "buried" there too, and then "buried" after this whole feud is over and done with, by all means, let me have it as to why I'm so wrong. But give feuds a chance to breath before you suffocate them.
 

Laser Shuckle

Well-Known Member
If A.J. gets "buried" there too, and then "buried" after this whole feud is over and done with, by all means, let me have it as to why I'm so wrong. But give feuds a chance to breath before you suffocate them.

Well I get where Sid is coming from, because to me this feud looks like yet another cookie-cutter case of the challenger "shining in defeat" and at best winning the battle but not the war. They did it with Bray vs Taker, Ambrose vs Triple H, and of course all the various feuds with Cena as well. (ex. Cena vs Owens...)

I get it, the concept works every now and then but it's been done to death as of late and here they've really booked themselves into a corner because AJ needs to actually win a feud to be taken seriously and Roman needs to actually lose among other things. Not to mention you have the whole Mcmahon family drama BS to have to sit through.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see where this goes, but for now it doesn't feel like it will end well for AJ once the dust settles or at the very least I don't have much faith in their booking here at all.
 

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
Well I get where Sid is coming from, because to me this feud looks like yet another cookie-cutter case of the challenger "shining in defeat" and at best winning the battle but not the war. They did it with Bray vs Taker, Ambrose vs Triple H, and of course all the various feuds with Cena as well. (ex. Cena vs Owens...)

I get it, the concept works every now and then but it's been done to death as of late and here they've really booked themselves into a corner because AJ needs to actually win a feud to be taken seriously and Roman needs to actually lose among other things. Not to mention you have the whole Mcmahon family drama BS to have to sit through.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see where this goes, but for now it doesn't feel like it will end well for AJ once the dust settles or at the very least I don't have much faith in their booking here at all.

I think it would help if people stepped back, and looked at the big picture. Regardless of how it goes down, A.J. Styles is getting not one but two WWE title matches within like 3 months of debuting. That's far more than just about any WWE wrestler could ever claim, even one's Vince had a hard on for. So let's not pretend like WWE isn't throwing A.J. a massive bone here.

In addition, let's say he does lose the second bout(which, I mean let's be honest, he will), that still leaves him with the de-facto bullet club. One that could even see the addition of Finn Balor in it post Extreme Rules. There's absolutely no reason they can't go on a tear nexus/shield style for a couple months or maybe even the rest of year.

Something that's annoyed me is, as someone who doesn't watch New Japan on a frequent basis, I really don't give a flipping **** about Gallows and Anderson. And based on crowd response, I don't think the crowd does either. So A.J. losing his match, and helping build up not only their character but his own(which hasn't been explained much beyond, "HE'S PHENOMENAL!!!"), could do everyone involved some much needed good.
 

EspNeon

Badge Collector
So Ryback probably won't be coming back. I'm guessing? Apparently he pissed off the boss. That's what I'm hearing anyways. I don't know if it's true.

I think he is treading on thin ice and very closed to receiving "best wishes in his future endeavours". He doesn't have the star power or credibility of his name yet to be criticising his contract publicly like he has and I think if history is any indication, the boss wont be happy with how he is handing the situation.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
I think it would help if people stepped back, and looked at the big picture. Regardless of how it goes down, A.J. Styles is getting not one but two WWE title matches within like 3 months of debuting. That's far more than just about any WWE wrestler could ever claim, even one's Vince had a hard on for. So let's not pretend like WWE isn't throwing A.J. a massive bone here.

In addition, let's say he does lose the second bout(which, I mean let's be honest, he will), that still leaves him with the de-facto bullet club. One that could even see the addition of Finn Balor in it post Extreme Rules. There's absolutely no reason they can't go on a tear nexus/shield style for a couple months or maybe even the rest of year.

Something that's annoyed me is, as someone who doesn't watch New Japan on a frequent basis, I really don't give a flipping **** about Gallows and Anderson. And based on crowd response, I don't think the crowd does either. So A.J. losing his match, and helping build up not only their character but his own(which hasn't been explained much beyond, "HE'S PHENOMENAL!!!"), could do everyone involved some much needed good.

From someone who watches Anderson and Gallows this is pretty much the same thing they did in New Japan, they played henchmen and the tag team specialist (even before BC that's what Karl Anderson is) I mean Anderson had some runs with BC where he was a singles guy but he was overshadowed by Young Bucks, Kenny Omega etc. Only thing missing is the too sweets, gun signs, his nickname and Gallow's facepaint. They legit took them and put them in same spots they did in NJPW.

Aj Styles character is pretty much what he's always done to. They just featured him instantly in Main Event stuff because that's who he's always been, if they are going to skip NXT it's because they will be heavily featured in high profile spots. I rather see AJ as a face (since he can't play a good heel to save his life) feuding with Balor/Anderson/Gallows. If not Finn let Roman lead them and pull the trigger on the heel turn. As long as he keeps having great matches he'll be over, they are building him in the same mold as they did Daniel Bryan as the scrappy underdog who brings the big fight.
 

celestial phantom

Well-Known Member
Welp the Sandow train stops it seems, as he was released. In addition to Cameron (FINALLY), Hornswoggle (FINALLY), El Torito (meh), King Barrett (was gonna happen anyway), Alex Riley (Finally, guy seemed like a tool, even if he had potential), Santino (he's retired anyway, so meh), and Zeb Colter (RIP MEX-AMERICA, REAL AMERICANS). But, damn it, why oh why is Sandow gone?! Wouldn't be surprised if he asked for it himself, but damn it, dude is over with the people and they just capitalized on that, much like people still like Ryder, people do like Sandow, don't get why the hell they can't find anything, even something minor to use the guy for on screen.

Wonder if this is all we are gonna get on releases or if there's gonna be more. Kind of got a betting pool open on Ryder, Swagger, and one guy suggested comically they release Crews thinking he is Titus just so Titus stays around.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
Welp the Sandow train stops it seems, as he was released. In addition to Cameron (FINALLY), Hornswoggle (FINALLY), El Torito (meh), King Barrett (was gonna happen anyway), Alex Riley (Finally, guy seemed like a tool, even if he had potential), Santino (he's retired anyway, so meh), and Zeb Colter (RIP MEX-AMERICA, REAL AMERICANS). But, damn it, why oh why is Sandow gone?! Wouldn't be surprised if he asked for it himself, but damn it, dude is over with the people and they just capitalized on that, much like people still like Ryder, people do like Sandow, don't get why the hell they can't find anything, even something minor to use the guy for on screen.

Wonder if this is all we are gonna get on releases or if there's gonna be more. Kind of got a betting pool open on Ryder, Swagger, and one guy suggested comically they release Crews thinking he is Titus just so Titus stays around.

Looks like they're clearing the low card, as they got alot of guys on NXT who are great in that role anyways so they aren't missing much (Dillenger > Sandow)
 

Jersey Jimmy

¿dónde está el FOUR DOLLA TUBA?
Congrats, Vince. You had Sandow right there and did pretty much nothing with him. What a complete waste of talent. As for the others... meh, Zeb was really the only one that got a "what the hell" out of me. Nice to see Hornswoggle's finally gone.
 

Laser Shuckle

Well-Known Member
Congrats, Vince. You had Sandow right there and did pretty much nothing with him. What a complete waste of talent. As for the others... meh, Zeb was really the only one that got a "what the hell" out of me. Nice to see Hornswoggle's finally gone.

Pretty much my exact thoughts on this.
 

EspNeon

Badge Collector
I can't say I am surprised at any of the releases barring Sandow.

Hornswoggle: Hornswoggle has not really been relevant since 2007/2008 when he single handedly killed the Cruiserweight Championships prestige and then the angle with MrMcMahon and his illegitimate child. Aside from that he has been nothing but a recurring "comedic presence" on the low-card with Khali and 3MB.

Cameron: Ever since the Funkadactlys split, Cameron's had very little direction. And with the recent influx of NXT Divas (Banks, Charlotte, Bayley, Asuka and Lynch) her stock devalued rapidly. The only surprise was to hear that she had a job she could be released from.

King Barrett: No surprise at all. He was rarely used to his full potential and with it being common knowledge he was not going to re-sign with the company, an early release is nothing out of the ordinary.

El Torito: A waste of a character. Nothing but an extra to give Hornswoggle some relevance - not that it worked.

Alex Riley: Another person who hasn't been relevant in years. Riley had potential both working with the Miz and feuding with him but nothing came of it. Riley then went to NXT but with the influx of global talents, like Cameron his stock decreased rapidly.

Santino Marella: Santino was hardly a surprise. After the surgery and retirement it was only a matter of time before they terminated his contract for good.

Zeb Colter: Zeb was a waste. He worked so well with Swagger as an individual and as part of the Real Americans. He could have even been used as part of American Alpha and been their mouthpiece on the main roster. But after the injury it all went down hill. He took too long to return back and when he did he was paired with Del Rio in a short lived angle which did nothing for him.

Sandow: Sandow was another waste. Not so much a surprise considering he was relegated to the lower card but Sandow was over with the fans. He had charisma, mic skills and a fluent in-ring style. Sandow was arguably one of the most over when he was teaming with the Miz as his "stunt-double". This was entirely Wwe's doing, as the guy had the package and was steadily building a following.

I was surprised that a few other names were not called out yesterday either. I was partially expecting Fandango, Darren Young, Primo, Epico and Titus O'Neill. And as much as I am a huge mark for Swagger, it wouldn't surprise me all the much either if he was one of the "chosen few".
 

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
I genuinely don't get the Sandow love, remotely. The guy was a sub-par in-ring talent who's only claim to fame was Miz getting him over. The savior of the masses gimmick was stale the second he debuted it, just being a rehash of every other "I'm smarter than you" gimmick that's been done before. He literally doesn't bring anything to the table that almost any other superstar on the roster can do equal or better.

Especially when he is in the same "class" as Wade Barrett. Now THERE is the guy who WWE truly messed up with.
 

Laser Shuckle

Well-Known Member
^ I remember you said the same thing about Sheamus, something along the lines of him being a stereotypical irish guy who brought nothing to the table someone else from ireland could've, and then you praising him much later when that dirtsheet report was linked here describing WWE's apparent plan to push Sheamus as the new top face.

The dude had charisma, and was genuinely over. Saying the sole reason for that is due to the Miz is like saying the Yes chant got Bryan over and not Bryan himself. Just look at the reaction he got at Wrestlemania, in a match he was barely apart of, after being off of TV for practically months..

Yes there's more talented guys than him, Yes Wade Barrett was an even more massive waste of talent, but still his audience connection however small despite everything was undeniable.
 

celestial phantom

Well-Known Member
Guys, as much as I do like Barrett, he was/is sub-par in the ring too. Both were good talents because they had the basics down enough to actually look legitimate to be in the ring, but it's not like Barrett is so much better than Sandow in the ring, the only advantage he had was really being a really better striker due to his bareknuckle brawler background stuff. Of course since Barrett was always in the upper reaches of the card, he faced guys like Orton, Sheamus, etc. more often, so we can find more matches that showcase his skills a bit more than Damien was able to. But, both were pretty bland in the ring, just good enough to watch though.

Also, while his biggest claim was doing the stunt double stuff, because it was great, he has been enjoyable to watch as an act since his debut as the savior of the masses, team rhodes scholars, and those cheesey impressionist type gimmicks they randomly threw at him because he went out there and entertained with them. I mean "stale", we can call that about 90% of today's gimmicks anyway having seen them all before in some shape or form. I mean we could go through the whole roster and find faults with every single one gimmick wise, but why does Sandow get the love he does? Because, he went out and did entertaining stuff, that's why. At the end if we are entertained, we are gonna wanna see those acts again, and well Sandow did well enough, hell he's pretty much as wasted as we could call Barrett in the sense he should have been a staple for the midcard, but they threw him to the wayside and he rarely showed up despite the fact he is over, much like Ryder. Being a staple of the midcard carries as much weight as being a staple of the uppermidcard possible main event level that Barrett should have been apart of, but well this is WWE and we can't have strong heels anymore unless you are Steph, Triple H, or Nikki Bella and well now Charlotte.
 
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