The OU Defensive Algorithm

[3.14kachu]

This team was created by analyzing metagame factors, combined with hours of mixing and matching, to find a team that works perfectly with itself and in opposition of the rest of the metagame. It has an insane amount of defense, but with enough damage dealing to make it immediately threatening.

The goals of the team were:

- Synergy - no overall weaknesses to any type, no type move goes unopposed, and no weaknesses to common type combinations
- Hazards - the team needed to have all hazards in play, and be able to keep them there, which necessitates a Spin-blocker.
- Support - the team needed screens for additional defense, a wish passer, a Rapid Spinner, and a status-clearing cleric.
- Sweeping - within this defensive framework, the team had to have a way to still cause terror on a switch in, break walls, and prevent stat-boosting

With all of these parameters in mind, I searched for the best combination of pokemon. Vaporeon, Darmanitan, Mienshao and Jellicent came up several times, but due to synergy, the top concern, they were not used. I fully believe that to use them, I would have had to abandon some of the team's other objectives.

This is by far the most planned, calculated team I have ever made.

First Look:

The Team:

Magnezone @ Wet Rock
Ability: Magnet Pull
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 SpDef

-Rain Dance
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Fighting]

Magnezone's typing makes it naturally resist special moves, and its stats take care of defense. It synergically helps the team, protecting it from Psychic, Rock, and Electric moves, as well as threats such as Forretress, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn. HP Fighting is a reliable alternative to HP Fire that I can use in rain. Rain Dance, although not a crucial strategy for my team, has obvious benefits for Tentacruel and Ferrothorn, destroys weather teams and teams too reliant on fire, and gives me a distinct advantage. It's just another trick up my sleeve.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpDef

- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Tentacruel makes a perfect match when combined with Ferrothorn. It matched my hopes so well that I couldn't believe my eyes. They cover each other's weaknesses, both do well in rain, supply different, complimenting hazards, defend each other on the physical-special spectrum, and both provide unique but needed support. I don't know why I don't see them on teams together more often. Their combination solved my spinner and hazard problem completely. This is a pretty standard Tentacruel set, with Surf rather than Scald because I'm hoping to keep up the Toxic Spikes.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def

- Protect
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

There's nothing special about this Ferrothorn set. This is actually the first team in which I've ever considered using Ferrothorn. This is also my first really defensive team as well, and now I see why Ferrothorn is so common on them. It's almost impossible to KO this thing, especially if you have Wish support. Rain also helps, but it's not essential.

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe, 4 HP

- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

My spin-blocker (the only OU ghost aside from Jellicent) is also my special sweeper, the pokemon I employ to get rid of annoyances like Mienshao, Tyranitar, Reuniclus, and other such threats. Its movepool is centered around taking out rapid spinners, and HP Ice easily deals with the likes of Donphan. Thunderbolt takes out Gyarados, Starmie, and Tentacruel.

Blissey @ Mental Herb
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpDef

- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Blissey is entirely support, but with the help of Tentacruel, it can toxic-stall any non-flying type. Otherwise, it just helps out the rest of the team, wishing everyone well and providing a soothing chime.

Tornadus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant, once it's out, but until then, Prankster
Nature: Naive
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 SpAtk

- U-Turn
- Brick Break
- Crunch
- Hurricane

How fast is Tornadus with a Choice Scarf?

It zooms through the sky at 200 mph.

Tornadus is the fastest thing I have ever felt the urge to put a Choice Scarf on, but it's countering abilities are scary. With a Scarf, Tornadus outspeeds Ninjask, Deoxys-S, All +1 DD dragons, +2 DD Scrafty or Tyranitar, +2 Shell Smash Cloyster, +2 Agility Metagross, and anything with a scarf including the dreaded Latios. In the time it took you to read this paragraph, my Tornadus has circled the earth twice. Usually, I send it in, deliver a massively powerful U-Turn, and retreat again, taking out Reuniclus or Latios or whatever. Its other moves are for coverage. Hurricane is its most powerful move by far, even with only 4 SpA EVs, and with the possibility of rain, it seemed like a good idea.

Last Look:

Well, that's my team. I personally think it's great, and it hasn't failed me yet. I view this as almost the epitome of a defensive team, durable but able to dish out damage. All rates, opinions, changes, and substitutions are welcomed.​

 

[complete legitimacy]

I would recommend Scarf Terrakion over Tornadus. The only thing Tornadus does for synergy is add a Ground immunity which you already have, a Grass resist which you already have, and a Fighting resistance which you already have, as well as an immunity. Terrakion's weaknesses are already covered, and is miles better at physical attacking than Tornadobro while only a little slower.

Also, I applaud you on putting a weather move without an ability. Your team definitely benefits from rain, but is not even close to being reliant on it. Just one more thing, invest in Blissey's defense rather than its special defense so it doesn't get completely raped by Psyshock which literally every special Psychic carries.

 

[Ninja Dewott]

Great team!

One thing though: I'd go with HP Fire over HP Ice on Magnezone. You said yourself that it's often too risky to use it, and it seems pointless trapping steel then not being able to do much against them. Actually, it's probably best to go with HP Fighting, as you may possibly have rain in play.

Finally, you'll want max defensive investment on Blissey.

 

[3.14kachu]

I would recommend Scarf Terrakion over Tornadus. The only thing Tornadus does for synergy is add a Ground immunity which you already have, a Grass resist which you already have, and a Fighting resistance which you already have, as well as an immunity. Terrakion's weaknesses are already covered, and is miles better at physical attacking than Tornadobro while only a little slower.

Also, I applaud you on putting a weather move without an ability. Your team definitely benefits from rain, but is not even close to being reliant on it. Just one more thing, invest in Blissey's defense rather than its special defense so it doesn't get completely raped by Psyshock which literally every special Psychic carries.

You have some valid points, but I'm not replacing Tornadus with Terrakion (which I had considered). The main reason is that Terrakion can't learn U-Turn, which makes Tornadus incredibly useful as a scout. Other reasons that Terrakion isn't as viable for the position is that it's weak to most priority moves, which Tornadus resists, and it gets outsped by Cloyster after a boost, Latios, and Agility Metagross, which happen to be some of its best counters. Tornadus outspeeds EVERYTHING!

I have little experience with Blissey, having used Chansey in the past, but I had intended it as a special wall. If its common counters (Reuniclus, Conkeldurr, etc.) reared their ugly heads, I would have just swept in and KO'ed them with Tornadus. I also wanted a dependable counter against Latios, Hydreigon, and Starmie, which are really annoying sometimes. I'll write in your suggested EV changes as an option.

One thing though: I'd go with HP Fire over HP Ice on Magnezone. You said yourself that it's often too risky to use it, and it seems pointless trapping steel then not being able to do much against them. Actually, it's probably best to go with HP Fighting, as you may possibly have rain in play.

I guess... fine, I'll replace it.

 

[Vandslaux]

528 Speed. Tornadus's scary Speed. Excadrill ban helps further.

AWESOME team.

Although, imo, I'd go with Sturdy on Magnezone, as it allows you to at least get up one screen. And you can't really hurt Steels anyway.

 

[3.14kachu]

528 Speed. Tornadus's scary Speed. Excadrill ban helps further.

AWESOME team.

Thanks. I wonder if this thread will make others start to use Tornadus. At first I thought that so much speed was excessive, but I hate dealing with revenge-killers. Now I can just revenge-kill them.

*EDIT* - To reply to the rest of your edited post, Magnet Pull is the whole reason to use Magnezone. It's the meaning of its existance. Plus, it's defensive enough that I hope not to have to resort to Sturdy. With HP Fighting, it can take out any steel but Skarmory and maybe Jirachi, which Thunderbolt handles.

 

[Farfan]

Very good team at a glance.
16 speed EVs on Tentacruel, so it can outspeed 100 base speeds with no speed EVs like SpDef Jirachi
Why HP Fighting on Gengar? Focus Miss is more powerful (Yeah I know the acuraccy sucks)
You can try SubDisable Gengar too to stop pokemon that only use two attacks like Toxicroak. and Gliscor (wich seems to be a big threat for this team if it sets up)
Seismic Toss > Protect on Blissey, if it's your last pokemon you can't do anything...

EDIT: iirc I think Spikes+SR+Leech Seed isn't a legal combination for Ferrothorn..
AND Blissey can't learn Aromatherapy w/ Wish, so go for Heal Bell instead.
Yes. The biggest threat is Gliscor, he can set up on Blissey or Tornadus, and sweep with EQs and Ice Fangs, going to do a full rate later

 

[The Imposter]

This team was created by analyzing metagame factors, combined with hours of mixing and matching, to find a team that works perfectly with itself and in opposition of the rest of the metagame. It has an insane amount of defense, but with enough damage dealing to make it immediately threatening.

The goals of the team were:

- Synergy - no overall weaknesses to any type, no type move goes unopposed, and no weaknesses to common type combinations
- Hazards - the team needed to have all hazards in play, and be able to keep them there, which necessitates a Spin-blocker.
- Support - the team needed screens for additional defense, a wish passer, a Rapid Spinner, and a status-clearing cleric.
- Sweeping - within this defensive framework, the team had to have a way to still cause terror on a switch in, break walls, and prevent stat-boosting

With all of these parameters in mind, I searched for the best combination of pokemon. Vaporeon, Darmanitan, Mienshao and Jellicent came up several times, but due to synergy, the top concern, they were not used. I fully believe that to use them, I would have had to abandon some of the team's other objectives.

This is by far the most planned, calculated team I have ever made.

First Look:

The Team:

Magnezone @ Light Clay
Ability: Magnet Pull
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 SpDef

-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Fighting]

Magnezone's typing makes it naturally resist special moves, and its stats take care of defense. The little-used screens variant seemed like the best course of action. It also synergically helps the team, protecting it from Psychic, Rock, and Electric moves, as well as threats such as Forretress, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn. HP Fighting is a reliable alternative to HP Fire that I can use in rain.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpDef

- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Tentacruel makes a perfect match when combined with Ferrothorn. It matched my hopes so well that I couldn't believe my eyes. They cover each other's weaknesses, both do well in rain, supply different, complimenting hazards, defend each other on the physical-special spectrum, and both provide unique but needed support. I don't know why I don't see them on teams together more often. Their combination solved my spinner and hazard problem completely. This is a pretty standard Tentacruel set, with Surf rather than Scald because I'm hoping to keep up the Toxic Spikes.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def

- Protect
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball

There's nothing special about this Ferrothorn set. This is actually the first team in which I've ever considered using Ferrothorn. This is also my first really defensive team as well, and now I see why Ferrothorn is so common on them. It's almost impossible to KO this thing, especially if you have Wish support. Rain also helps, but it's not essential.

Protect is super helpful in Leech Seed recovery, and your previous combo was illegal.

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe, 4 HP

- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]

My spin-blocker (the only OU ghost aside from Jellicent) is also my special sweeper, the pokemon I employ to get rid of annoyances like Conkeldurr, Mienshao, Tyranitar, Reuniclus, Rotom-W, and other such threats. Its movepool is centered around taking out rapid spinners, and Energy Ball easily deals with the likes of Starmie and Donphan. I am considering making use of Pain Split to keep its health up.

Even with its low hit rate, Fail Blast is far better than HP Fighting, by virtue of the fact that you can use HP Fire. You don't want to get walled by physically defensive Skarmory and Forretress, do you?

Blissey @ Wet Rock
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpDef

- Heal Bell/Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Rain Dance

Blissey is entirely support, but with the help of Tentacruel, it can toxic-stall any non-flying type. Otherwise, it just helps out the rest of the team, wishing everyone well and providing restoring fragrances. Rain Dance, although not a crucial strategy for my team, has obvious benefits for Tentacruel and Ferrothorn, destroys weather teams and teams too reliant on fire, and gives me a distinct advantage. It's just another trick up my sleeve, and Blissey was too valuable to replace with a Politoed.

Problem with your Blissey is that it will become Taunt bait, forcing you to switch, allowing them some free set up. As such, try Seismic Toss over Heal Bell (Aromatherapy+Wish is illegal IIRC), but you can use either.

Tornadus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant, once it's out, but until then, Prankster
Nature: Naive
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP

- U-Turn
- Air Slash/Hurricane
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast

How fast is Tornadus with a Choice Scarf?

Tornadus is the fastest thing I have ever felt the urge to put a Choice Scarf on, but it's countering abilities are scary. With a Scarf, Tornadus outspeeds Ninjask, Deoxys-S, All +1 DD dragons, +2 DD Scrafty or Tyranitar, +2 Shell Smash Cloyster, +2 Agility Metagross, and anything with a scarf including the dreaded Latios. In the time it took you to read this paragraph, my Tornadus has circled the earth twice. Usually, I send it in, deliver a massively powerful U-Turn, and retreat again, taking out Reuniclus or Latios or whatever. Its other moves are for coverage. Sky Drop is sadly its most powerful physical STAB move, but it's useful for wearing the opponent down from Toxic damage.

Sky Drop is banned in standard play due to the infamous Sky Drop glitch. Anyway, your set runs off his lesser base 115 Attack (never thought that I'd ever say that, herpderp), and he has more special options anyway.

Last Look:

Well, that's my team. I personally think it's great, and it hasn't failed me yet. I view this as almost the epitome of a defensive team, durable but able to dish out damage. All rates, opinions, changes, and substitutions are welcomed.​

Comments in bold.

Overall, looks like a fair team.

 

[3.14kachu]

Thank you for all of your comments. Here's my rebuttal:

Magnezone: Everyone likes Magnezone. Not much to say.

Tentacruel: I don't know how you came up with the 16 speed EVs, but I guess I'll use them. Why would I stay in against Jirachi anyway?

Ferrothorn: Sorry about the illegal move combination. I should have noticed that. I will immediately change Spikes to Protect as per Magikarprules's request.

Gengar: When you use Focus Blast, it's accuracy drops to 10%. When it's used against you, it rises to 100%. I'm a bit reluctant to use it. After much deliberation, I have decided to use Focus Blast and use HP Ice, to deal with the Dragon / Gliscor problem. I will also have Thunderbolt in place of Energy Ball, which will cover Tentacruel, Skarmory, and Gyarados as well. I'll edit that shortly.

Blissey: Sorry again about the illegal moveset. I'll use Heal Bell instead, although it doesn't make a difference. I have always objected to Seismic Toss. It doesn't deal enough damage to make it useful as the opponent sets up. I'll take my chances or maybe use a Mental Herb. My plan is to anticipate a Taunt, switch in Gengar, Magnezone, Tentacruel, or Tornadus, and sweep.

Tornadus: I'm so sorry that I used its inferior base 115 Atk stat. Still, I need a physical sweeper and I want U-Turn at maximum power. If I was ever going to play this outside of PO, (I'm not, I'm too lazy to make a real team), I would be sure to use Aerial Ace instead of the banned Sky Drop. But I'm definitely not going to make its moveset special. This is no HO team. I need a physical sweeper better than Ferrothorn. (Crazy thought: what if I replace Tornadus with Archeops? It serves the same purpose, but with a higher attack and more powerful moves).

Some problems for this team that I expect to see are Gliscor, which only Gengar (and Tentacruel, but not on a switch-in) counters, and Rotom-W, which may be a good enough reason in itself to give Blissey Toxic. Only Ferrothorn counters it, and I haven't even given it a grass move. Should I scrap Gyro Ball for Power Whip? Nobody uses rock or ice type pokemon anyway.

 

[complete legitimacy]

Wait. Doesn't Tornadus get Hammer Arm? Or is that just Thundurus...

If it does, use that over Brick Break. The speed drop won't matter much, since Tornadobro will still be faster than anything bar Starmie and Deoxys-S.

 

[Vandslaux]

Sorry about suggesting Sturdy, silly me. You still had HP Ice on there when I critiqued it. Sorry.

 

[Dark-Tyranitar]

hmmmm i would recommend a mixed set on tornadus by losing sky drop/aerial ace for hurricane (since it benefits in rain) hurricane tornadus is crazy sweeper (cause minimal ou resistance to flying + no immunities)

 

[jirachiuser1]

Conkeldurr, even with one Bulk up, will cause major problems to this team. It can switch into Blissey and surely get atleast one Bulk up.
Replacing your Gengar set to the Sub Disable one will help defend against Conkeldurr since you can Disable the Payback.

 

[3.14kachu]

I have a few objections to your suggested corrections. For Tornadus, I have considered and am still considering using Hurricane on Tornadus. Even with absolutely no SpAtk EVs, Hurricane has substantially more power than Sky Drop, so I'll probably change it, and give Tornadus a Naive nature. This should also take care of the Conkeldurr problem that jirachiuser1 noted (although Tentacruel is also a decent counter). But the other moves are staying as they were. As for Hammer Arm, I would rather not compromize its speed at all, as its unnatural speed is its greatest advantage. Plus, I like Brick Break's effect of removing screens, which can be very useful as a scout for such a defensive team.

And what are everyone's thoughts on Archeops as a possible replacement for Tornadus?

 

[Blue Harvest]

Why not just run Scarf Landorus over scarf Tornadus. Scarfed base 101's outrun virtually the same crap scarfed 111s do.

Change the Magnezone set to ANYTHING else. Maybe Specs since your team is good at laying entry hazards which gives you some extra 1-2HKOs. Better yet just run Specially Defensive Heatran. Your dual screen Magnezone is stupid since your team is so defensive you will just suicide Magnezone and stall for a few turns, then just lose anyway.

If you run Stealth Rocking Sp def or Balloon Heatran you can put Spikes > SR on Ferrothorn.

 

[Venophobia]

Due to Ferrothorn not having spikes, you have nothing to break focus sashes and allow effective sweeping, therefore i suggest that you replace Magnezone for those reasons, and the ones that blue harvest stated above with this skarmory set.

Fred (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 232 SDef / 28 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost
Sturdy allows one set of spikes, roost/leftovers for recovery/ whirlwind for effective use of spikes and phazing, and brave bird for back up.

If you feel it necessary to have double screens, try this set with xatu:

Xatu (M) @ Light Clay
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Roost
- Night Shade

Night shade allows maximum EV investment in defensive aspects, the main amount of defensive EV's are in SpeD because it will face super effective hits in the Special area generally.

 

[3.14kachu]

Thanks BH and Venophobia for your suggested replacements for Magnezone. I agree that Screens Magnezone is a bit unorthodox, but I used it over Heatran and Skarmory mainly for synergy. It protects my team from Psychic and Electric, and I would rather not sacrifice that synergy. I would change it, but every one of its possible replacements (Celebi, Claydol, Hydreigon) makes the team dangerously ice-weak. So Magnezone has to stay, but I will change its moveset. Hmm...

If I stop using screens, I can give it Wet Rock and Rain Dance, and Volt Switch as the last move. If I do that, I can give Blissey Stealth Rock instead of Rain Dance, and then give Ferrothorn Spikes. That seems like a good plan.

And BH, if I ran Landorus instead, my team would be destroyed by Scarf Terrakion, Scarf Latios, Deoxys-S, Cloyster, and Metagross. That might not seem like a big deal, but if one of those pokemon is up, and I can't rely on one of my frail sweepers to beat it, my team is in serious trouble. Although you're right that Scarf Tornadus does take care of DD Dragons, Volcarona, and most Scarfed pokemon.

 

[Haru Glory]

Usually, I don't recommend Archeops. Just for its ability.

 

[Mayu808]

Noooooooo use archeops!!!!! I'm sorry I'm a big fan of archeops and would really like to see it used more, cause it's a monster. Scarf, amazingly high stats, and quake edge/ flying coverage is great. The only thing though is it strong enough to kill conkeldurr with a flying move after a BU? I don't have the time ATM to do the math but if it can, I wholeheartedly suggest archeops, wether it's competitive wise smart or not (which you sir, tend to stray from anyways) tornados is still cool though.