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The Pokemon Anime Opposite Opinions Game Thread

satopi

Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
Since we are trying to give others Hell: defend Cameron.
Defend him on what? Him beating Ash at the League? His Riolu evolved, got stronger, and knocked out Pikachu. A common theme in Pokémon. His character? Cameron was forgetful and didn't know a lot of things but his Pokémon was his strong point. He was like Ash in many ways where he believed in strength in bonds, getting stronger with his Pokémon, and took things as it came. He was like Ritchie in a way where they had many similarities with Ash but were their own person. Regardless of his short comings, outside of the League, Cameron bonded well with the group and his main Pokémon, Riolu, was a joy to have. His quirk of placing his brain back to function by slapping his headband against his forehead was memorable enough to know he's about to get serious and wreck his opponent whether you liked it or not.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Opinion: Counter Shield is 1 of the most innovative and impressive tactical maneuvers that Ash has ever utilized in the entire anime
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Opinion: Counter Shield is 1 of the most innovative and impressive tactical maneuvers that Ash has ever utilized in the entire anime

It was a big flop in the Lake Acucity battle and wasn't much effective for Ash or Paul in the League either. The way this particular strategy was hyped throughout mid-DP seriously made me think like that this is going to be strategy/technique which will ultimately be the key for Ash to finally defeat Paul, who was handing over Ash embarrassing defeats one after another in DP. It worked wonderfully in the Gym battle against Fantina, raising hopes/hype for this supposedly amazing looking strategy/technique.

And then came the Lake Acucity battle, where this strategy/technique badly flopped and Paul handed over Ash one of his most embarrassing defeats ever in his life as a Pokemon trainer. It made me think: really? Such a supposedly creative looking strategy/technique, which made me think that this could be the key to ultimately trouncing Paul, was handled this badly in the anime?

The technique looked so cool apparently and so much creative, could have been handled so much better in the anime, like helping Ash in key battles with Paul, and...... ultimately amounted to squat. And saying that Paul himself used it later in the SL battle also doesn't mean much when it was hardly effective when Paul used it.

So overall I'll say: Counter Shield is one most overhyped, flop and badly handled techniques in the entire anime.

Opinion: I think Sawyer was a really good rival, Ash's third best rival(after Paul and Gary) in the anime. It gave an unique thought/idea about a rivalry where the rival would look up to Ash as a mentor, as his role model. It sort of gave a feeling that Ash's battling style/techniques are really that much good and worth something when someone is really looking up to it, trying to learn from it and inherit it in his own battling style to become better in battling. It gave a feeling that Ash as trainer/battler is actually that much good.

And I also don't think that Sawyer's growth rate in his rivalry with Ash was absurd or DEM. Sawyer started off a rookie who can hardly battle or rather knew much about it, not naturally the most gifted battler either. But one thing was noticable: he was hardworking, he clearly had the will and dedication to become better. He always tried to learn from Ash or rather every battle he had/saw, which also shows how studious he was.

So, though he wasn't a naturally gifted battler at all, he was very hardworking, dedicated and studious, willing to learn from everything, so for someone like him, the progression wasn't unbelievable either. And it isn't that his progression was too badly depicted either:

When he had his first battle with Ash, he could barely even put up even a reasonable fight, but was willing to learn from his mistakes.

When he battled Ash second time, his gradual progression was believable. His first 2 Pokemon were curbstomped, but his Sceptile had improved a lot. He used Greninja's battling style against it, and had it on the ropes, until the Ash-Greninja transformation activated and curbstomped Sceptile.

In the third battle, people could argue that his progression was unbelievable, but I don't think so. In his previous battle, only his Sceptile was shown to have improved, so this time it wasn't unreasonable for the rest of his Pokemon to have improved too. He defeated Ash's first 2 Pokemon, and then defeated Greninja to beat Ash, but there was one thing: Greninja couldn't transform into Ash-Greninja due its mind not being in sync with Ash. So by now, Sawyer was a trainer who can go toe to toe with Ash and beat him on any bad day for Ash(like that one).

In the League afterwards, it was thus very much believable than he was very skillful and strong trainer with a Mega Evolution who studies his opponents hard and skillfully produces apt counters to his opponents Pokemon during the battle, which he did with Ash in the League, and was able to give him a close fight.

Overall, I was really impressed by Sawyer as a character who despite being a rookie, not a naturally gifted battler, through his hardwork, dedication and willingness to learn from everything, became a skillful trainer who hard-counters his opponents Pokemon from beginning to end in a battle and made it to the KL semis. His overall gradual progression as a rival was well presented as well as Ash's role as a mentor to him.
 
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Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Opinion: -snip-

Overall, I was really impressed by Sawyer as a character who despite being a rookie, not a naturally gifted battler, through his hardwork, dedication and willingness to learn from everything, became a skillful trainer who hard-counters his opponents Pokemon from beginning to end in a battle and made it to the KL semis. His overall gradual progression as a rival was well presented as well as Ash's role as a mentor to him.
(Due to the length of your post, I'm only quoting part of it.)

While Sawyer was certainly a different kind of rival—one who started out behind Ash and who looked up to him, rather than one who was always a step ahead of Ash or who looked down on him (and I appreciate the writers for not repeating the mold of Ash's other rivals)—one could argue his development felt a little too rushed. He went from a rookie Trainer who made a lot of mistakes, to someone who was able to go toe-to-toe with the experienced Ash, all within a relatively short period of time. Yes, he had the will to improve, and yes, he spent most of his time studying and wasn't distracted by his friends' goals, but the speed of his development still felt too rapid. This was most notable in the speed at which he earned his badges.

Opinion: I don't like it when Jessie decides to do whatever the Pokégirl is doing—Contests or Showcases. It feels like she is just leeching off their goal, and it's a distraction (and an unnecessary one) from what Team Rocket is supposed to be doing. Why don't the writers just create an additional rival for the Pokégirl, rather than use Jessie as a rival? After all, it's not like they've ever used James as one of Ash's rivals.
 

satopi

Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
Opinion: I don't like it when Jessie decides to do whatever the Pokégirl is doing—Contests or Showcases. It feels like she is just leeching off their goal, and it's a distraction (and an unnecessary one) from what Team Rocket is supposed to be doing. Why don't the writers just create an additional rival for the Pokégirl, rather than use Jessie as a rival? After all, it's not like they've ever used James as one of Ash's rivals.
While Jessie does seem to gain interest in whatever the current Pokegirl is doing, she doesn't do it to spite them or leech off their goal but rather, she enjoys the attention and watching her perform was far from boring. I don't think it's unnecessary for her to join in Contests nor Showcases either, because she was seen as a threat in her Coordinator persona quite a few times and seeing her progress into Showcases, while barely touched upon, showed how much she learned as a previous Coordinator. It's only natural for the TRio in general to butt into business they have no reason to get into just as Ash does, though for different reasons. Is it unnecessary? Sometimes. But have we seen the TRio interrupt a Contest for stealing Pokémon? No (correct me if I'm wrong.) I'd rather Jessie join into something she's genuinely interested in than if she, or the boys, were inserted there just because.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Nobody posted a new opinion, so here is one:

Opinion: Brock should not have been part of the trio in DP. Ash had grown enough come DP as a person/trainer, and DP would have worked better as the Ash/Dawn show, which is practically was at times anyway. Brock could have been a recurring character, but as part of the trio, he was sorely underutilized.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Opinion: Brock should not have been part of the trio in DP. Ash had grown enough come DP as a person/trainer, and DP would have worked better as the Ash/Dawn show, which is practically was at times anyway. Brock could have been a recurring character, but as part of the trio, he was sorely underutilized.

For starters Dawn was a noob and while Ash had matured, he still had quite a short temper in DP, so both of them needed a mediator in case things got too heated (like in that episode where they faced those tag “champs”). They could have possibly introduced a new character for this role though the advantage with Brock was that since he was already well-established as a character, the writers could use the time they would’ve had to give to fleshing out a new character instead to Ash and Dawn’s stories. Also from a meta standpoint Brock served as the de facto mouth piece of the writers when they wanted to explain what was happening in various battles. Having a new character fill that role again leads to the same issue of needing to flesh that character out at the expense of time better spent on Ash and Dawn, and scheduling Brock’s appearances, so that he’d be there for every major battle is much more of a hassle than just having him as a constant. Brock was also an additional major thread tying all the series together and it might not be a coincidence that the show became disjointed after he left. Finally having Brock stay for as long as he did likely had a major role in cementing his place in the fandom’s hearts as Ash’s greatest companion till date :).

Opinion: The Champion’s League mentioned in DP was click-bait false hype for Ash winning the league and the show would’ve been better off if it wasn’t mentioned. What’s especially egregious in hindsight was Cynthia’s line about Ash and Paul entering the champion’s league soon since that was only a few episodes prior to the infamous BW “reset”.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Opinion: The Champion’s League mentioned in DP was click-bait false hype for Ash winning the league and the show would’ve been better off if it wasn’t mentioned. What’s especially egregious in hindsight was Cynthia’s line about Ash and Paul entering the champion’s league soon since that was only a few episodes prior to the infamous BW “reset”.

I believe that the Champion's League was foreshadowed in DP in preparation for Ash eventually entering it later in Gen 6 or 7. Even if DP Ash was arguably the most skilled and the culmination of Ash's character from OS-DP (before BW, XY, and SM disjointedly started doing their own thing), his best league performance before then was still the quarterfinals. So it was obvious he would lose either in the semifinals or finals (Ash v Tobias was basically the de facto final). Unfortunately, the writers opted to do the infamous BW 'reset', but I believe the original intention was to set up for a future league win and Champ's League entrance.

Opinion: BW, XY, and SM don't feel like one continuous series, and don't feel at all tied to the continuity of OS-DP.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Opinion: BW, XY, and SM don't feel like one continuous series, and don't feel at all tied to the continuity of OS-DP.
The negation of this opinion would be: BW, XY and SM do feel like one continuos series, or at least 1 of BW, XY or SM is tied in some aspect to the continuity of OS-DP. I will argue for the 2nd part in the case of XY with respect to Ash’s character and skill progression (from a pure logic standpoint, this is sufficient to assert that the negated Opinion is true hence refute the original opinion).

The refutation: XY Ash felt like he picked up right where DP Ash left off. Even early on we see him using eerly similar tactics like using Froakie’s frubbles in novel ways like how he also used Buizel’s flotation sack in an unorthodox manner, and also his RT/DM/AS climb is an extension of the “rock climbing” that Pikachu did in Ash’s Sinnoh League battle with Paul. In terms of character, DP Ash while mature still had quite the temper especially when he thought someone was being incompetent (e.g. Dawn when they battle the tag champs the first time) or when someone’s views vastly diverged from his own (e.g. Paul with respect to philosophy on raising Pokémon) whereas XY Ash was considerably more mellow and rarely let his temper get the better of him. XY Ash was also far more accepting of contrasting views than DP Ash was. Back to the Paul example; Ash at first couldn’t stand Paul’s views on Pokémon raising though by the end of DP he had come to accept that those methods were also a legitimate way of raising Pokémon and that not everyone has to go about it like him. Similarly in XYZ Ash is familiar with Alain being highly motivated by strength yet eventhough Ash himself faltered when he began prioritizing strength too highly instead of love, Ash never chastised Alain on the matter since at this point he understands that just because he isn’t compatible with certain viewpoints, it doesn’t mean that other people can’t benefit from having those views either.

DP Ash while a brilliant tactician was very prone to anxiety when the going got tough which would hinder his thinking speed and negatively affect his Pokémon. This can be seen in his battle with Conway where he showed visible panic against Trick Room, easily lost 2 of his Pokémon, never properly countered the move and only won because of Gible’s unpredictability. Contrast this with Valerie where against Trick Room he maintained his composure, quickly thought of counter strategies for both of his Pokémon and won the battle on pure merit (he was unquestionably the more skilled trainer). While he ultimately persevered in his SL battle with Paul, Paul was initially able to effectively exploit this weakness of Ash’s during the early stages of their match by countering him every time he had a major burst of ingenuity. Even in the initial Kalos gym battles this flaw remains. Against Viola we see Ash visibly distraught after his first loss since he wasn’t able to quickly think up counters to the strategies Viola used for their rematch. Even as far as Ramos we see Ash visibly anxious when his back was against and he was only able to regain his composure after encouragement from Pikachu. After this point though Ash no longer has this flaw and understands that having such an attitude will both negatively affect his judgment and his Pokémon (he even gives Sawyer advice on this in XY 75).

Even DP Ash was never able to competitively battle with the E4 with Bertha only using their battle to test and develop Ash’s observation, and she destroyed him the moment she upped the difficulty after which she told him how he still had a long way to go, as well as Flint’s Infernape casually stomping Buizel and Infernape, only getting somewhat serious against Pikachu and yet Pikachu didn’t manage to make F-Ape “sell” with any of its hits. Then we have Paul who was meant to be considered as Ash’s equal yet the Sinnoh Champion gave him a curbstomp to end all curbstomps. In XY it’s the same at first with Diantha effortlessly wrecking Ash and Pikachu though then... it happened! In XYZ 25 Ash showed for the first time in over 900 episodes that he could in fact battle competitively with trainers of the highest lvl and could realistically beat the E4s and Champions someday. In the Kalos League he had his best placement yet as runner up and while he technically was also 2nd best in Sinnoh, he got owned 6-2 by Tobias whereas in Kalos he lost in a very close 6-5 after putting up a valiant fight against the only non-E4/Champion trainer in the entire series who was able to defeat the Ace of an E4 Pokémon that too the Mega variant which would be substantially stronger (with a monster like that as an Ace Alain in all likelihood would stomp both Tobias’s Darkrai, and Latios and do the same to the rest of his team unless he had some secret weapon that’s a lot stronger than those 2 were) a.k.a Ash’s Alain feat > Ash’s Tobias feat. Ash also flat-out gave his best performance in terms of skill till date against Alain (Page 128; Post #3196 of the versus thread). Finally in the last episode of DP, Ash looks in awe at the high lvl battle that Cynthia and Flint were having, and even vicariously projects himself on to Flint in order to imagine what a battle of that caliber would feel like. Well in XYZ he didn’t have to imagine anyomore; with his Ash-Greninja being in the Champion Ace/E4 Mega Ace spectrum and Alain’s Mega Charizard X being the strongest Pokémon in existence barring Champion Mega Aces and maybe Lysandre’s Mega Red Gyarados, Ash and Alain’s climactic match in the Kalos League Finals was conducted at a decisviely higher lvl!!!

XY truly was the culmination of Ash Ketchum as both a trainer and a human being; at the end of XYZ he already had both the skill and mentality to be a top tier trainer on par with even the E4s and Champions, and all that’s left to do is train up his Pokémon and then steamroll through the next iteration of the Indigo League (it would be poetic), so that he may finally gain access to the Champion League where he’ll thrive with his strongest team (GPICSS) and be all the more closer to becoming a Pokémon Master :D!

Opinion: Kukui in all but title is the Lance, Steven, Cynthia, Alder, Diantha of Alola (a.k.a is a Champion tier trainer).
 
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Thumbs2

Well-Known Member
Opinion: Kukui in all but title is the Lance, Steven, Cynthia, Alder, Diantha of Alola (a.k.a is a Champion tier trainer).
Going by the games, Kukui was weaker than lance. If they follow the games in this scenario, Kukui is only E4 Tier. If they don't, Kukui wont even be above Faba, let alone any otber region's elites.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Opinion: BW, XY, and SM don't feel like one continuous series, and don't feel at all tied to the continuity of OS-DP.
XY was pretty much picking up where DP left off,a continuation.BW & SM are filler crap.
Ash was on vacation and wasn't taking anything seriously after defeating his biggest threat at the time (Paul) just to get roadblocked by a guy with legendaries (Tobias).I don't watch SM but I know it's along the same lines as BW.


Opinion: Advanced Generation Ash is the best version out of all the Ashs' in the pokemon anime.
 
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AssualtVestPyukumuku

Well-Known Member
I think it depends on what you want from Ash. I personally like an Ash who's stubborn for the right reason, makes unorthodox strategies, still selfless, & who takes matters into his own hands when push comes to shove. AG Ash feels really bland to me. DP/XY Ash are the Ash's I like: he doesn't have to be a serious edge lord like so many want him to be. He just needs competence, a care for his Pokémon/friends, & maturity when the situation calls for it.
Opinion: Ash vs Gary is a terrible battle in both strategies and tension. In fact, Ash vs Paul is the only major rival fight I find intriguing. (Ash vs Sawyer is good too) (I'm talking mainly about League matches.) Also think AvP is the best battle in the entire anime's run
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
I think it depends on what you want from Ash. I personally like an Ash who's stubborn for the right reason, makes unorthodox strategies, still selfless, & who takes matters into his own hands when push comes to shove. AG Ash feels really bland to me. DP/XY Ash are the Ash's I like: he doesn't have to be a serious edge lord like so many want him to be. He just needs competence, a care for his Pokémon/friends, & maturity when the situation calls for it.
Opinion: Ash vs Gary is a terrible battle in both strategies and tension. In fact, Ash vs Paul is the only major rival fight I find intriguing. (Ash vs Sawyer is good too) (I'm talking mainly about League matches.) Also think AvP is the best battle in the entire anime's run

Yeah I agree,that battle tends to get overrated by a lot of the fans,It should be no where near the top 5 for best anime battles imo,too many 1HKOs that occurred in that battle and not enough strategy.Ash vs Paul is the best anime battle in the entire series by far,I find it pretty impressive that it still holds up to this day after all these years despite all the later battles and newer animation we've witnessed in the later series that came after DP.

Opinion:Georgia was the best rival character from the BW series
 

satopi

Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
BW was pretty much picking up where DP left off,a continuation whereas XY left off where BW ended in a plane ride towards Kalos to the beginning of XY where Ash and Alexa hopped out, later meeting her sister. BW & SM had filler crap.
Fixed it for you. Just because you dislike those sagas, it doesn't mean they aren't a continuation... and every saga has filler but I like your explanation.

Opinion:Georgia was the best rival character from the BW series
While Georgia was an entertaining character and had a great rivalry with Iris, they didn't battle much so I think Trip was a better rival in that regard because of the rival set up between them starting from the third episode, they had more reason to be rivals than just opposite types, and we got to learn more about Trip's character outside of their rivalry.

Opinion: I actually liked Greninja's sendoff first time watching it. Puni chan/Squishy had good reason to use Ash Greninja which it's powers had a key role in finding Hari san which helped take down the Legendary Giant Rock. Ash and Greninja had an emotional farewell and hug, I liked that it was still looking at Ash from a faraway distance and was a better sendoff than having it live at Professor Oak's ranch. There wouldn't be much use for Ash Greninja had the whole ordeal been finished. Ash wanted to start from zero as usual which meant he wouldn't be taking Greninja with him and Greninja would be doing a noble duty in protecting Kalos.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Reminder: One of goals of this thread is to try and seek out opinions that you don't tend to agree with and argue for them. Not saying you should do it all the time, but it's not as interesting if you're saying stuff you already believe when most likely rest of PAD knows you believe that way.

============

Opinion: I actually liked Greninja's sendoff first time watching it. Puni chan/Squishy had good reason to use Ash Greninja which it's powers had a key role in finding Hari san which helped take down the Legendary Giant Rock. Ash and Greninja had an emotional farewell and hug, I liked that it was still looking at Ash from a faraway distance and was a better sendoff than having it live at Professor Oak's ranch. There wouldn't be much use for Ash Greninja had the whole ordeal been finished. Ash wanted to start from zero as usual which meant he wouldn't be taking Greninja with him and Greninja would be doing a noble duty in protecting Kalos.

At the same time, it means Ash only brought home 3 Pokemon from Kalos. And it could mean that Greninja may not be readily available for a potential league in the future. Also, couldn't Squishy fulfill that role anyway in 10% form?
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Opinion: Ash “starting anew” in every region from Hoenn onwards is justified. At the start Johto we see Ash spam Charizard on multiple occasions for an easy win when he could have given other Pokémon valuable battle experience. When Charizard leaves it’s explicitly noted that Ash’s team now had a major power void (which could have been avoided if he didn’t partake in the above spamming). In particular after the first inconclusive 8th gym battle where Ash was getting smacked around; what does he do in response? Does he train his regional team up? Nope he just falls back on his powerhouses in Charizard and Snorlax. The lack of experience of his Johto team really showed at the League where most of them weren’t able to carry their weight relative to Ash’s more experienced Pokémon from Kanto/OI. Ash likely made note of this which is why he decided that from then on he would only focus on developing his regional team during the badge quest and the results showed since he was able to obtain the same rank in the Hoenn League as he did in the Johto League with only his Hoenn team and lost in a down to the wire match against the to be conference champion. Noting this success with the the Hoenn team Ash continues the pattern in Sinnoh and even dismisses Dawn when she suggests calling up some of his older Pokémon after he lost to Roark while maintaining that he needs to win with his current team. From here on he would only use his older Pokémon during a League (after his regional team was already trained up thanks to the badge quest) if at all. The opinion is that Ash “resetting” his team every region ends up helping him more in the long run (as in the long run he’ll gain access to more competent Pokémon) than he would have if he had continued to focus on Pokémon from older regions while going through badge/trial quests.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Opinion: Ash “starting anew” in every region from Hoenn onwards is justified. At the start Johto we see Ash spam Charizard on multiple occasions for an easy win when he could have given other Pokémon valuable battle experience. When Charizard leaves it’s explicitly noted that Ash’s team now had a major power void (which could have been avoided if he didn’t partake in the above spamming). In particular after the first inconclusive 8th gym battle where Ash was getting smacked around; what does he do in response? Does he train his regional team up? Nope he just falls back on his powerhouses in Charizard and Snorlax. The lack of experience of his Johto team really showed at the League where most of them weren’t able to carry their weight relative to Ash’s more experienced Pokémon from Kanto/OI. Ash likely made note of this which is why he decided that from then on he would only focus on developing his regional team during the badge quest and the results showed since he was able to obtain the same rank in the Hoenn League as he did in the Johto League with only his Hoenn team and lost in a down to the wire match against the to be conference champion. Noting this success with the the Hoenn team Ash continues the pattern in Sinnoh and even dismisses Dawn when she suggests calling up some of his older Pokémon after he lost to Roark while maintaining that he needs to win with his current team. From here on he would only use his older Pokémon during a League (after his regional team was already trained up thanks to the badge quest) if at all. The opinion is that Ash “resetting” his team every region ends up helping him more in the long run (as in the long run he’ll gain access to more competent Pokémon) than he would have if he had continued to focus on Pokémon from older regions while going through badge/trial quests.

Sufficiently training the regional team is fine, but not using reserves when necessary is a poor idea. At the Hoenn League, Ash challenged himself to see how far he can get with his own team - it was a personal challenge that was met with solid results (a close loss to the eventual league champion in the quarterfinals). In DP, Ash didn't need to be bound by that challenge any longer since he already proved himself, so he used whatever available reserves he had on-hand. In BW and XY however, Ash didn't bring any of his reserves. Yes, in BW he had a lot of Pokemon, but he also knew he didn't have to use all of them, especially in the later full battle rounds when they'd be an immense help. That cost him the Unova League since he didn't have much firepower against Cameron. XY was even more egregious since Ash only had 5 regional captures, and he was under no obligation to commit to all of them at the KL. Imagine if he faced Alain with his best team - it'd be a clean win.

Not only at the league, but the potential interactions that could have unfolded between the older and newer Pokemon were lost; BW tried at least with Charizard, but it didn't at all tap into the potential. Imagine if Greninja learned from an experienced veteran in Charizard, or sparred against Ash's Sceptile in preparation for Sawyer's. When the world was in literal danger in XY, Ash could have easily called Oak and asked him to send over his big guns, especially when everybody except for Pikachu and Greninja pretty much got wrecked by Lysandre's Gyarados.

========
Opinion: Clemont's arc in XY started off so strong, and then disappointed by the end. There was no Lumiose City arc where he could have unwittingly worked alongside his father, Blaziken Mask, to save the day. His father's reveal was lame. Even near the end of XY, he still was 'gag-ing. Clemont should have also drawn against Ash at the gym to prove he was equal to the guy he admired - instead Ash basically pulled an E4 and styled on him.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Opinion: Clemont's arc in XY started off so strong, and then disappointed by the end. There was no Lumiose City arc where he could have unwittingly worked alongside his father, Blaziken Mask, to save the day. His father's reveal was lame. Even near the end of XY, he still was 'gag-ing. Clemont should have also drawn against Ash at the gym to prove he was equal to the guy he admired - instead Ash basically pulled an E4 and styled on him.
I'm not sure what you consider to be the end of Clemont's character arc, but IMHO, his arc ended with his Gym battle against Ash, and while it may not have been the most satisfying conclusion to a character arc, it wasn't entirely disappointing, either. Clemont started out as someone who was nervous and lacked self-confidence (he lost control of his Gym to the robot he had built to do his Gym Leader duties), which is why he was drawn to the confident, self-assured Ash. By the end of his arc, he had learned to be more confident in himself, both as a person and as a Gym Leader.

I'm not sure what drawing against Ash would have done for Clemont's character arc. While he did lose, he also showed a lot more confidence during that match than he would have at the beginning of the series, showing how far he had come in his growth as a character.

Opinion: Bonnie's role as Squishy's caretaker should have been given to Clemont or Serena, and Bonnie herself should not have been part of the gang in XY(&Z).
 
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Thumbs2

Well-Known Member
Opinion: Bonnie's role as Squishy's caretaker should have been given to Clemont or Bonnie, and Bonnie herself should not have been part of the gang in XY(&Z).

Is that supposed to be serena?
Anyway, Bonnie may have been kinda jerkish to Clemont sometimes, but she was always a good part of the group, and I always got a laugh from her.Without Bonnie, Clemont would have been DP Brock, as he never really interacted with Serena. Squishy could have been given to Ash or even Team Rocket with out much change, but giving it to Bonnie gave her more relevance than Max.

Opinion: Gary losing early during the Kanto League was an anticlimax, and had no rhyme or reason to it.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
I'm not sure what you consider to be the end of Clemont's character arc, but IMHO, his arc ended with his Gym battle against Ash, and while it may not have been the most satisfying conclusion to a character arc, it wasn't entirely disappointing, either. Clemont started out as someone who was nervous and lacked self-confidence (he lost control of his Gym to the robot he had built to do his Gym Leader duties), which is why he was drawn to the confident, self-assured Ash. By the end of his arc, he had learned to be more confident in himself, both as a person and as a Gym Leader. I'm not sure what drawing against Ash would have done for Clemont's character arc. While he did lose, he also showed a lot more confidence during that match than he would have at the beginning of the series, showing how far he had come in his growth as a character.

I felt the greater narrative was him gaining courage and confidence, and while he did show that, it wasn't as hammered home as it could have been. I felt Clemont should have also become the new Blaziken Mask (or the 'Robin' to his father's Batman) at the end of the series. The problem I had with the gym battle was that it felt very much like an E4 v other character battle, where the other character lands some hits, does some cool strategy, but then the E4 turns on an additional gear and BAM! match over. Normally Ash is almost always the underdog to the gym battle, but this time it was a complete switch, which is cool to see, but for Clemont's character, it would have been better if he could draw and prove that he's equal to the guy he admires.

(Bump to the Opinion above)
 
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