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The Pokemon Anime Versus Thread

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Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
Torterra sweeps.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
An Elite 4's Ace w/o Mega Evolution can theoretically sweep Ash's entire team as shown against Flint, so Ash-Greninja accomplishing this isn't out of the blue at all.

Eliminate the notion that all E4 Pokemon are equal, or that an E4 mon w/out ME is inferior. Flint's Infernape > A-G as well.


A-G might take the crown of the most overrated Pokemon.


Trip(Pre Club Battle Tournament)vs Paul(Cynthia Battle)

Trip
Servine
Timburr
Frillish
Vanillite
Tranquill
Lampent

Paul
Torterra
Elekid
Ursaring
Murkrow
Chimchar
Weavile

Torterra + Ursaring, and the rest just make it overkill.
 
Eliminate the notion that all E4 Pokemon are equal, or that an E4 mon w/out ME is inferior. Flint's Infernape > A-G as well.
if the writers happened to make a battle between two elite four members they would definitely not make it lopsided, so i think thats a reasonable assumption to make (not exactly equal but similar in level). if you pick a random elite four mega mon, chances are it will be better than a random elite four non-mega mon. not saying its an unfallible rule but it generally will be the case since megas are quite a lot stronger
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
After a barrage of Flamethrowers beforehand, yes.

Nothing is stopping Magmar from firing barrage of Flamethrowers. And Fire Blast is a different story. Gary's Magmar can use Fire Blast as a physical move using its body along with the fire like it did against Heracross.

Not a guy who wanted to test out his new lab experiment.

So that means Giovanni will let Gary have free wins? Giovanni realised that Gary was a strong trainer and so he decided to use Mewtwo.

Your point? Katie and Morrison were better than a bunch of jobbers at the KL.

Sawyer was also a hell of a trainer at the Kalos League. He lost closely to XY Ash, who lost closely to Alain. They are all much better than Tyson. And Morrison would have most probably beaten Ash, if he didn't fight half-heartedly at the start of the battle which cost him two points. So, Morrison would also beat Tyson, because Tyson almost lost against Ash despite fighting the full battle seriously unlike Morrison.

Swellow/Glalie/Grovyle are more than enough to take down A-G.

Laughable! Ash-Greninja will be standing strong after defeating all of them.

We can make convenient matchups as you wish, but doesn't change the end result that the Gary team was not "way better", by your admission, than the Hoenn team.

Charizard and Snorlax say hello.



Yes, what did Pikachu do in Hoenn which was very notable? He won't be beating Charizard anyway.

Didn't you get the memo? A-G is better than all Champion Pokemon and can OHKO all of Ash's Pokemon save for like five.

It pushed a Champion's Pokemon hard enough to Mega Evolve and even after that overpowered it dealing serious damage knocking it out of its feet. It will OHKO the majority of Ash's Pokemon.
Eliminate the notion that all E4 Pokemon are equal, or that an E4 mon w/out ME is inferior. Flint's Infernape > A-G as well.

Once again, laughable! Diantha's base Gardevoir couldn't keep up with Ash-Greninja and had to Mega Evolve(Even then got overpowered afterwards). Please don't tell me that Flint's Infernape>Diantha's base Gardevoir.
A-G might take the crown of the most overrated Pokemon.
It feats are more than enough to prove that it's E4 level. A Pokemon that managed to decisively gain the upper hand against a Champion's Mega should never be underrated just because its failure to take down MC-X, who was somewhat close to a champion level battler since ME4. Taking down nine Megas in a row and immediately defeating a E4 member's Pokemon after that despite being exhausted from the earlier battles- that's pure Champion level battling. Even the legendary Zygarde wasn't overpowering MC-X by much.
 
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Genaller

Silver Soul
After a barrage of Flamethrowers beforehand, yes.


/s

Actually no. The narrator very explicitly states that Shiftry dodged all previous attacks and so it was OHKed by a single Flamethrower. Shiftry is easily the weak link of Tyson's team (this should be obvious). Magmar is far more mobile than Torkoal so I really don't see how Shiftry is dodging or surviving something like diving Fire Blast.

Personally Glalie+Swellow+Grovyle may trade even with A-G (and this is being very generous) for HL-Hoenn and Sceptile+Glalie trade even with A-G for Peak Hoenn. Factoring in the mild and tremendous boosts of Corphish and Torkoal respectively makes it clear that Peak Hoenn is well above HL-Hoenn:

Swellow vs Slwellow -> Draw
Glalie vs Glalie -> Draw
Post BF-Corphish vs Pre BF-Corphish -> Post BF-Corphish
Post BF-Corphish vs Grovyle -> Grovyle
Post BF-Torkoal vs Grovyle -> Post BF-Torkoal
Post BF-Torkoal vs Pre BF-Torkoal -> Post BF-Torkoal
Post BF-Torkoal vs T-Pikachu -> T-Pikachu
Peakachu vs T-Pikachu -> Peakachu
So the best possible outcome is low-mid 4-6 assuming Peak Hoenn doesn't utilize Peakachu and Sceptile early on. The other possibility is:

Swellow vs Swellow -> Draw
Glalie vs Glalie -> Draw
Sceptile vs Grovyle -> Sceptile
Sceptile vs Pre BF-Torkoal -> Sceptile
Sceptile vs Pre BF-Corphish -> Sceptile
Sceptile vs T-Pikachu -> T-Pikachu
Peakachu vs T-Pikachu -> Peakachu
In this case we have a low-mid 3-6.

Peak Kalos vs HL-Hoenn (assuming A-G leads)
A-G vs Grovyle -> A-G
A-G vs Swellow -> A-G
A-G vs Glalie -> Draw
Goodra vs Pre-BF Torkoal -> Goodra
Goodra vs Pre-BF Corphish -> Pre-BF Corphish
Hawlucha vs Pre-BF Corphish -> Hawlacha (decisively)
Hawlucha vs T-Pikachu -> T-Pikachu
Peakachu vs T-Pikachu -> Peakachu
Once again a low-mid 3-6.

Peak Kalos vs Peak Hoenn
A-G vs Sceptile -> A-G
A-G vs Glalie -> Draw
Goodra vs Torkoal -> Torkoal
Hawlucha vs Torkoal -> Hawlucha
Hawlucha vs Corphish -> Draw or Hawlucha barely wins and is easily revenge killed
Swellow vs Noivern -> Swellow
Swellow vs Talonflame -> Swellow
Swellow vs PKT Peakachu -> PKT Peakachu
PHT Peakachu vs PKT Peakachu -> PHT Peakachu barely (thanks to a last gasp attack by Swellow that resulted in chip damage for PKT Peakachu) So Peak Hoenn beats Peak Kalos high 5-6 and both can take HL-Hoenn anywhere between low 3-6 to mid 4-6 (neither would need they're last Pokémon).

The Battle Frontier did wonders for the Hoenn team and I'm still baffled how you don't get that.
 
the way i see it is the writers demonstrate certain pokemon to be on a completely different level than its piers. there are always strong pokemon demonstrated (meowth, infernape, sceptile, krookadile) but they are just powerful pokemon (maybe except for infernape in blaze mode) because they all have difficulty taking down their opponents. meowth struggled against a persian, infernape against ninjask and aggron, krookadile vs stephan etc. these can be taken down by a few average/decent pokemon

but there are pokemon who are portrayed differently (gary's blastoise, harrison's blaiziken, ash' charizard, sawyer mega-sceptile, ash-greninja) because when they face against average opponents, they can beat them with their hands tied behind their backs. look at blastoise vs heracross/bayleaf, blaiziken vs bayleaf, charizard vs sciszor/golem, ash-greninja vs sceptile/altaria, mega-sceptile vs raichu/blastoise. these matchups were portrayed as complete jokes because the difference is so big. you can throwing as many bayleafs at blastoise, altarias at greninja or golems at charizard and it won't do a thing. you need one pokemon who is on a similar level to actually make progress
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Not going to bother arguing about A-G since I'll hear the same arguments from XYers how it's not the most overrated Pokemon ever, and that has been discussed ad nauseum.


The Battle Frontier did wonders for the Hoenn team and I'm still baffled how you don't get that.

Only Grovyle evolving and Torkoal learning Heat Wave. The difference was not so substantial that a hypothetical battle goes from 2-6 or 3-6 to a close 6-5 either way.


you can throwing as many bayleafs at blastoise, altarias at greninja or golems at charizard and it won't do a thing. you need one pokemon who is on a similar level to actually make progress

To an extent, but remember Drake's Dragonite. Obviously better than any one of Ash's Pokemon, but together they chip damaged to bring it down.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Not going to bother arguing about A-G since I'll hear the same arguments from XYers how it's not the most overrated Pokemon ever, and that has been discussed ad nauseum.
Only Grovyle evolving and Torkoal learning Heat Wave. The difference was not so substantial that a hypothetical battle goes from 2-6 or 3-6 to a close 6-5 either way.

Yeah Tobias Pikachu (which you consider his peak form) would beat Tyson Pikachu with at most mid difficulty. HL-Corphish doesn't have its FB feats. Torkoal went from borderline tier 5 to upper tier 3. Grovyle did okay against 1 FB Pokémon while Sceptile soloed 2 FB Pokémon including the Ace and Spencer wasn't weak or unskilled considering it took Heracross+Swellow to beat his other Pokémon. 6-3 to 6-4 depending on Battle order is where I see HL-Hoenn faring against Peak Hoenn or Kalos.
 
Only Grovyle evolving and Torkoal learning Heat Wave. The difference was not so substantial that a hypothetical battle goes from 2-6 or 3-6 to a close 6-5 either way.
grovyle evolving meant that Ash had an actual powerhouse in his team, which is huge. having a tier-1 ace that is capable of sweeping half a team can change the game.
torkoal went from having one of the worst resumes of ash's pokemon to bringing brandon's registeel to its knees, so it improved from its training as well as learnt a new move
you forgot pikachu as well he was so solid throughout the entire BF and even beat Regice[/QUOTE]

To an extent, but remember Drake's Dragonite. Obviously better than any one of Ash's Pokemon, but together they chip damaged to bring it down.
the difference wasn't as big though. blaiziken literally stopped bayleafs attacks without even looking or using a move.
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
Eliminate the notion that all E4 Pokemon are equal, or that an E4 mon w/out ME is inferior. Flint's Infernape > A-G as well.


A-G might take the crown of the most overrated Pokemon.

Which is why Steven needed Mega Evolution to keep up with the big gunz? Clearly, Mega Evolution is a big deal among the elites, so A-G > Flint's Infernape still applies.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Yeah Tobias Pikachu (which you consider his peak form) would beat Tyson Pikachu with at most mid difficulty. HL-Corphish doesn't have its FB feats. Torkoal went from borderline tier 5 to upper tier 3. Grovyle did okay against 1 FB Pokémon while Sceptile soloed 2 FB Pokémon including the Ace and Spencer wasn't weak or unskilled considering it took Heracross+Swellow to beat his other Pokémon. 6-3 to 6-4 depending on Battle order is where I see HL-Hoenn faring against Peak Hoenn or Kalos.

These were all league-ready Pokemon. It works both ways - Corphish was able to secure its FB victories because it was already strong enough at that point.

I think with Sceptile + Heat Wave Torkoal it becomes a close 6-5 margin either way, but even with Grovyle + non-HW Torkoal, the HL team is not losing any worse than 4-6.

grovyle evolving meant that Ash had an actual powerhouse in his team, which is huge. having a tier-1 ace that is capable of sweeping half a team can change the game.
torkoal went from having one of the worst resumes of ash's pokemon to bringing brandon's registeel to its knees, so it improved from its training as well as learnt a new move
you forgot pikachu as well he was so solid throughout the entire BF and even beat Regice

The Hoenn team was well-balanced even with Grovyle.

the difference wasn't as big though. blaiziken literally stopped bayleafs attacks without even looking or using a move.

Those chip damages stamina drain after a while though. Bayleef is not the most powerful Pokemon out there, but guys like Swellow, Glalie, and Grovyle will hurt however.


Which is why Steven needed Mega Evolution to keep up with the big gunz? Clearly, Mega Evolution is a big deal among the elites, so A-G > Flint's Infernape still applies.

Siebold/Blastoise and Steven/Metagross looked like they more than could have battled to win without Mega Evolving.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
These were all league-ready Pokemon. It works both ways - Corphish was able to secure its FB victories because it was already strong enough at that point.

I think with Sceptile + Heat Wave Torkoal it becomes a close 6-5 margin either way, but even with Grovyle + non-HW Torkoal, the HL team is not losing any worse than 4-6.

Okay so we both believe Peak Hoenn vs Kalos would be a close fight.

Don't forget Peakachu (max(To-Pikachu,Al-Pikachu)) would be considereably stronger than Tyson Pikachu and would likely be able to win that matchup mid difficulty. The same Corphish that got OHKed by Haryiama would be able to survive doom vortex? m'okay if you say so. How would you see a match between HL-Hoenn and Peak Hoenn playing out?

EDIT: Here's a fun question; how would all of you have wanted some of the major battles in the anime to go? This is simply how you feel the battle should have ideally gone with the restriction that both trainers are using the same teams they were using during the actual fight.
I'll give an example:

My idealized Ash vs Alain
Tyranitar vs Pikachu -> Pikachu is recalled (It still deals damage with a Thunderbolt on a soaked Tyranitar but difference here is that as Pikachu launches Electro Ball, Tyranitar counters with Dark Pulse and the 2 moves clash after which as Pikachu is landing Alain calls Tyranitar's 4th move which turns out to be Sandstorm. Ash knows that Alain won't let him do the same Iron Tail on the river Trick again so he then considers a different idea and recalls Pikachu)
Tyranitar vs Noivern -> Noivern (navigates through the Sandstorm with echolocation and overwhelms Tyranitar with its speed)
Weavile vs Noivern -> Weavile (same as original battle)
Weavile vs Hawlucha -> Hawlucha (same as original battle)
Bisharp vs Hawlucha -> Bisharp (recalled) (same as original battle)
Unfezzant vs Talonflame -> Draw (same as original battle)
Metagross vs Pikachu -> Pikachu (same as original battle)
Charizard vs Pikachu -> Charizard (recalled) (same as original battle. Being able to make an E4 Ace lvl+ Pokémon kneel while Pikachu itself is in a weakened state is more than enough to signify Pikachu's strength so the Tyranitar KO is better off being used to elevate Noivern)
Bisharp vs Goodra -> Draw (basically Alain calls Guillotine right before Bide is finished charging up. Bisharp scores a clean hit but somehow Goodra is still hangs on and launches a Bide that causes an even greater explosion than the 1 seen in Ash vs Clemont. The smoke clears and Bisharp is KOed; however, Goodra is unable to endure the pain caused by Guillotine and falls as well. This keeps Goodra's record clean of losses and makes it look like a badass for temporarily hanging on after getting hit by an OHK)
For base Charizard vs Greninja, the difference would be that after Greninja pushed Charizard back with Cut, he quickly follows up with a Water Shuriken boosted by the Rain right before Rain Dance's affects end)
Mega Charizard X vs Ash-Greninja -> Ash-Greninja (the same sequences shown with additional sequences of Cut vs Thunderpunch and Aerial Ace vs Thunderpunch mixed in. Mega Charizard X falls after the final explosion after which both Ash and Ash-Greninja fall on their back the second Ash is declared the winner by the referee. A-G is utterly exhausted but not KOed)

Basically what I'm asking is how would you "book" some of the major battles in the Pokémon anime?
 
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Navin

MALDREAD
How would you see a match between HL-Hoenn and Peak Hoenn playing out?

Probably a 4-6 or something.

Basically what I'm asking is how would you "book" some of the major battles in the Pokémon anime?

In Ash v Paul, Torterra earns one win.

In Ash v Tobias, Swellow lands two hits before falling.

In Ash v Cameron, Ash wins. And then loses to Virgil 5-6 in the semis with a team of Pikachu (1 W, 1 L), Krookodile (2 W, 1 L), Pignite (1 D), Leavanny (1 W), Palpitoad (1 L), Scraggy (1 L).
 
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Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
For Ash vs. Alain:

Pikachu vs. Tyranitar - Pikachu wins, then recalled.
Hawlucha vs. Weavile - Hawlucha wins.
Hawlucha vs. Unfezant - Unfezant wins.
Noivern vs. Unfezant - Noivern wins.
Noivern vs. Metagross - Metagross wins.
Talonflame vs. Metagross - Metagross wins.

Field Change:

*Alain recalls Metagross first and Pikachu eagerly coaxes Ash into selecting him* - I think that would be better narrative than Pikachu going in first, then Metagross given that I had Metagross act as the sweeper here.

Pikachu vs. Metagross - Pikachu wins.
Pikachu vs. Charizard - Charizard wins, then recalled.
Goodra vs. Bisharp - Draw.
Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Charizard X - Greninja wins.

I was fine with the writer's depiction of the fight since Pikachu was MVP.
 
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Charizard-Fan

Star Wars fan
Basically what I'm asking is how would you "book" some of the major battles in the Pokémon anime?

This is a good and difficult question. There many things I'd like to change in Pokemon's battles, but it's often difficult for me to decide how they could be changed in a good way. For example, I don't like it how Heracross was a fall guy against Spencer, but at the same time I really like how Sceptile got 2 wins against Spencer and Swellow got 1 win and I wouldn't want to make Swellow a fall guy or Sceptile getting only 1 win so that Heracross would get a win.

How do people think Ash would fare against Brandon if Ash used GPICCS against Brandon's Regirock, Registeel, Regice, Dusknoir (assuming Dusclops has evolved), Ninjask and Solrock with Brandon being able to switch freely just like against Paul?
 
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snorlax512

Well-Known Member
This is a good and difficult question. There many things I'd like to change in Pokemon's battles, but it's often difficult for me to decide how they could be changed in a good way. For example, I don't like it how Heracross was a fall guy against Spencer, but at the same time I really like how Sceptile got 2 wins against Spencer and Swellow got 1 win and I wouldn't want to make Swellow a fall guy or Sceptile getting only 1 win so that Heracross would get a win.

How do people think Ash would fare against Brandon if Ash used GPICCS against Brandon's Regirock, Registeel, Regice, Dusknoir (assuming Dusclops has evolved), Ninjask and Solrock with Brandon being able to switch freely just like against Paul?
Greninja > Regirock
Charizard > Registeel
Peakachu > Regice
Infernape > Dusknoir
Sceptile > Ninjask
Snorlax > Solrock
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Ash(Best Team) vs Pyramid King Brandon 6 on 6 full battle
Pikachu vs Solrock->Solrock
Pikachu vs Ninjask->Pikachu(called back)
Sceptile vs Dusklops->Sceptile
Sceptile vs Registeel->(Sceptile gets called back)
Infernape vs Registeel->Infernape(Blaze activated)
Infernape vs Regice->Regice(called back)
Pikachu vs Regirock->Regirock(called back)
Sceptile vs Regice->Sceptile
Sceptile vs Regirock->Regirock
Greninja vs Regirock->Greninja(Ash-Greninja)

Ash wins without the use of Charizard


Paul(Best Team) vs Pyramid King Brandon 6 on 6 full battle
Ursaring vs Dusklops->(Ursaring called back)
Drapion vs Dusklops->Drapion
Drapion vs Ninjask->Drapion(called back)
Electivire vs Solrock->Electivire(called back)
Magmortar vs Registeel->Registeel(affected by Flame Body)(called back)
Ursaring vs Regice->Ursaring(Guts activated)
Ursaring vs Registeel->Registeel(affected by Flame Body)(called back)
Torterra vs Regirock->Torterra(called back)
Electivire vs Registeel->Electivire

Paul wins without the use of Honchkrow
 
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