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The Pokemon Anime Versus Thread

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snorlax512

Well-Known Member
Quick Attack and Thunderbolt brought base Zard to it's knees, even after being worn out after Tyranitar and Metagross. I think it could give MCX a run for it's money. That said, I can't think of many Alain baseZard feats to compare against, if any.

I don't think it would beat MSceptile though, since Lightening Rod nullifies Pikachu's arguably two strongest moves.
I think Pikachu would give base Zard a run for its money. Even without lightning rod I don't see Pikachu beating Mega-Sceptile
 

Navin

MALDREAD
honestly, you say AG is overrated but you are the most biased person here. Every time we argue you have to lowball everything as much as possible to downplay his feats

When you come from a position of overstating anything that happened in XY, and then come against the other debaters of PAD, that's how it will feel.

Even without lightning rod I don't see Pikachu beating Mega-Sceptile

Case in point.
 

snorlax512

Well-Known Member
When you come from a position of overstating anything that happened in XY, and then come against the other debaters of PAD, that's how it will feel.
Diantha mega evolves her Gardevoir. It could be two reasons: either she overestimated AG or she couldn't keep up. It could be either, so lets see which interpretation the cues point towards.

Diantha saying "had that hit, we wound't have stood a chance". Maldread: She's just bluffing to herself and over-exaggerating for no reason, despite this was going on in her head.

Serena saying "they had Carnet-san backed into a corner!" after Diantha mega evolved. Maldread: Serena's not a good battler, so she's unreliable. What, so the writers put that inaccurate line in just to show how bad Serena was at battles? No, when the spectators commentate they are used by the writers to convey their interpretation of the battle.

Mega-Gardevoir was visibly exhausted after the battle, and Diantha said "that was too much, wasn't it?" Maldread: Mega-Gardevoir got tired from beating TR, not from battling AG.

AG OHKO's base Sceptile. Maldread: Sceptile was tired from the previous exchanges. Sceptile had taken zero damage from Greninja, and it has more than enough stamina to not get exhausted after firing off two or three attacks. Sawyer isn't that bad of a trainer.

See what I mean by you lowballing absolutely everything, while at the same time overrating Meowth based on the sole fact that Tyson was the Champion?
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
Quite frankly Tyson's Metagross > Alain's, but that's another story.

Astrid's Mega Absol was revered as a pokemon that overshadowed the rest of the competition and Alain's Metagross is even above that by a large margin. Tyson's Metagross however? Not really given how Tyson's Ace was portrayed in the League.

It's practically insulting what you're insinuating here. Such a covert attempt at underrating Ash-Greninja's power.


On what basis?

You believe what you believe man.

This is visual proof that Ash-Greninja can literally swamp Brandon's pokemon given what the inferior Darkrai accomplished against Torkoal. This is an objective analysis and nothing biased against. You're simply controverting the evidence I presented because you're so attached to tarnishing Ash-Greninja's reputation.

Quick Attack and Thunderbolt brought base Zard to it's knees, even after being worn out after Tyranitar and Metagross. I think it could give MCX a run for it's money. That said, I can't think of many Alain baseZard feats to compare against, if any.

I don't think it would beat MSceptile though, since Lightening Rod nullifies Pikachu's arguably two strongest moves.

Even without it, Ash-Greninja was evidently superior to the rest of Ash's team to the extent that Ash-Greninja's presence was accentuated within the League compared to Ash's Pikachu and the rest of his gang. Pikachu would defeat both Sawyer's Sceptile and Alain's Charizard, but I doubt it can compete with either of them once they Mega Evolve.

As for the rest of the discussion:

Ash-Greninja (Mastered) > Ash-Greninja (Imperfect) > Base Gardevoir. That much is obvious given how Ash's friends remarked how Gardevoir was "feeling the pressure now." Gardevoir couldn't even elegantly dance around Ash-Greninja's attacks even though Weavile could against Hawlucha and both were within the same tier of power. That alone denoted Ash-Greninja's superiority. Arguing against that is entirely baseless given that the authorial intent was overt through the sentiments of Ash's friends.
 
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Navin

MALDREAD
Diantha saying "had that hit, we wound't have stood a chance". Maldread: She's just bluffing to herself and over-exaggerating for no reason, despite this was going on in her head.

Nice straw man. That line is more indicative that the attack would have hurt, not that Gardevoir would have been KO'd.

Serena saying "they had Carnet-san backed into a corner!" after Diantha mega evolved. Maldread: Serena's not a good battler, so she's unreliable. What, so the writers put that inaccurate line in just to show how bad Serena was at battles? No, when the spectators commentate they are used by the writers to convey their interpretation of the battle.

"Got..backed into a corner" (and another subbed source offers a different translation) from a non-battle expert in a situation where Gardevoir just ME'd and visibly not in any bind, on top of established context, doesn't add anything to A-G other than yes, he is an impressive Pokemon who landed some hits on (M)-Gardevoir. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

Mega-Gardevoir was visibly exhausted after the battle, and Diantha said "that was too much, wasn't it?" Maldread: Mega-Gardevoir got tired from beating TR, not from battling AG.

After Diantha orders M-Gardevoir to "full power" her way through a TR bind.

AG OHKO's base Sceptile. Maldread: Sceptile was tired from the previous exchanges. Sceptile had taken zero damage from Greninja, and it has more than enough stamina to not get exhausted after firing off two or three attacks. Sawyer isn't that bad of a trainer.

Stamina drain regardless, on top of Sceptile not being super powerful either. Sawyer is a rookie, although plot-be-the-powers gave him unrealistic spikes.

See what I mean by you lowballing absolutely everything, while at the same time overrating Meowth based on the sole fact that Tyson was the Champion?

More like putting it in reasonable context alongside A-G's other feats against Wulfric, Sawyer, and Alain.


Astrid's Mega Absol was revered as a pokemon that overshadowed the rest of the competition and Alain's Metagross is even above that by a large margin. Tyson's Metagross however? Not really given how Tyson's Ace was portrayed in the League. It's practically insulting what you're insinuating here. Such a covert attempt at underrating Ash-Greninja's power.

1. Where was M-Absol "revered"?
2. How is Alain's Metagross "above that by a large margin"?
3. How is Tyson's ace not portrayed as a powerhouse? It took 3 Pokemon to bring it down, largely due to a crack in its armor and Pikachu's form advantage. Tyson even remarked that the battle would end with Metagross.

On what basis?

Does this really need to be explained?

This is visual proof that Ash-Greninja can literally swamp Brandon's pokemon given what the inferior Darkrai accomplished against Torkoal. This is an objective analysis and nothing biased against. You're simply controverting the evidence I presented because you're so attached to tarnishing Ash-Greninja's reputation.

So much wrong here. When did Darkrai become inferior to A-G? Darkrai lost due to a collective effort (even while gaining some stamina back) of Heracross/Torkoal/Gible/Sceptile (and set up Latios for an instant KO), due to stamina drain and guile. Also, why are you not considering out-of-universe factors that diminished Torkoal and Swellow in that episode?

"Objective analysis" Lol. Hard to consider any of this with merit when a bunch of doppelgangers (wouldn't even be surprised if it was the same poster) who joined in the last few months and have a clear XY-inclination start saying stuff like above.
 
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Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
1. Where was M-Absol "revered"?
2. How is Alain's Metagross "above that by a large margin"?
3. How is Tyson's ace not portrayed as a powerhouse? It took 3 Pokemon to bring it down, largely due to a crack in its armor and Pikachu's form advantage. Tyson even remarked that the battle would end with Metagross.

Malva's narration denoted Astrid's Mega Absol as being the top dogs of the league.

Hawlucha defeated Mega Absol and Alain's Metagross is above Hawlucha.

Because Tyson's Metagross is rivaling Tyson's ace who struggled against a Persian. Tyson's Metagross's performance was seemingly phenomenal based on its performances against a weakened Swellow and Grovyle who both have a significant type disadvantage which is what emphasized Metagross's defensive capabilities to begin with. Tyson's Metagross was not uber powerful let alone Tyson's ace who struggled immensely with another league competitor. Strangely, I could argue that Metagross was used to sweep through majority of Remo's team which is superior to defeating a weakened Swellow and a Grovyle with a type disadvantage.

Does this really need to be explained?

I need an explanation as to how Tobias's Darkrai is somehow comparable to an E4 and Champion, yes.

So much wrong here. When did Darkrai become inferior to A-G? Darkrai lost due to a collective effort (even while gaining some stamina back) of Heracross/Torkoal/Gible/Sceptile (and set up Latios for an instant KO), due to stamina drain and guile. Also, why are you not considering out-of-universe factors that diminished Torkoal and Swellow in that episode?

"Objective analysis" Lol. Hard to consider any of this with merit when a bunch of doppelgangers (wouldn't even be surprised if it was the same poster) who joined in the last few months and have a clear XY-inclination start saying stuff like above.

Oddly enough, Swellow and Torkoal are both specific choices. Torkoal made Registeel kneel, so literally slapping it away like an ant was used to cement Darkrai's strength, same goes to Swellow given that its resilience and tenacity couldn't surmount Latios's power. They weren't nerfed, they were simply competitors used to highlight Tobias's power, nothing more, nothing less. If not, then it just makes me think less of Darkrai and Latios.

Your issue is that Ash-Greninja lacks feats, but if so, then the pokemon Darkrai defeated lack feats that compare to fighting Diantha's Gardevoir and overwhelming it to the point where it elicited the need for Mega Evolution. All of these places A-G on a much higher level than Tobias's Darkrai who lacks such feats if that's the game you want to play.

And yeah, it's an objective analysis, but I can tell that your argument is far from objective and your brash accusation of my presence as an alt won't change that.
 

snorlax512

Well-Known Member
Nice straw man. That line is more indicative that the attack would have hurt, not that Gardevoir would have been KO'd.
Ignoring that your claim has no basis other than your bias against AG, a pokemon who can seriously damage a champion ace puts it within the same realm of power. Add in the fact that Greninja was not fully mastered, AG ~ base Gardevoir > Peakachu is a lowball.



"Got..backed into a corner" (and another subbed source offers a different translation) from a non-battle expert
Once again, your ignoring that it is highly unlikely that the writers would have Serena spout inaccurate interpretations (which would serve no purpose whatsoever other than demonstrate that Serena is stupid). The most probable and reasonable case is Serena (as done with spectators a lot) was used as a device to convey the writers interpretation of the battle.

in a situation where Gardevoir just ME'd and visibly not in any bind, on top of established context, doesn't add anything to A-G other than yes, he is an impressive Pokemon who landed some hits on (M)-Gardevoir. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.
How. The context points exactly towards Gardevoir being forced to mega-evolve.


After Diantha orders M-Gardevoir to "full power" her way through a TR bind.
Even assuming TR somehow became a threat to the Champion, Diantha must be a terrible champion if her pokemon gets exhausted by using her full power for a few seconds.

Stamina drain regardless, on top of Sceptile not being super powerful either. Sawyer is a rookie, although plot-be-the-powers gave him unrealistic spikes.
Sceptile was dominating base Greninja. Whether Sawyer's Sceptile should be this powerful is a different story.

Yes, but the stamina drain is negligible to the point where if it was a fresh battle (adding in fully mastered AG) Sceptile still would have been destroyed without dealing any damage. The point is, AG can easily defeat decent pokemon without breaking a sweat, and I don't see how Swellow + Glalie + Grovyle is enough to take it down. You need tier 1s to do that, Corphish isn't doing jack to AG.


More like putting it in reasonable context alongside A-G's other feats against Wulfric, Sawyer, and Alain.
lmao you are finding every excuse possible to downplay his feats
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
Tobias's Darkrai literally swept everything in it's path other than Ash, including the finalist of the Sinnoh league. If defeating a trainer who is definitely capable of winning any league 6-0 easily (Darkrai didn't remotely look tired after it defeated Magmortar), let alone it did that in the top 8 and collected a couple 3-0's is not enough to justify a spot in the E4/Champion tier, then I don't know what does. Yes these battles weren't shown, but I don't see how Hawlucha vs M-Absol's rushed/skipped battle is any more creditable than Tobias's domination against all competitors. Could an E4's ace done better than Darkrai vs Heracross/Torkoal/Gible/Sceptile? Possibly. However even the most reliable ace will eventually underpeform due to the nature of variance, and even then the Darkrai that lost to Ash still did a ton of damage against four respectable foes. I highly doubt AG is capable of doing what Darkrai did to the SL finalist and Ash's first four Pokemon.

Regarding Torkoal and Swellow, it was time constraint that made these two get crushed. It still would have lost to it's respective foes, but realistically it would have put up a better fight.
 

snorlax512

Well-Known Member
Tobias's Darkrai literally swept everything in it's path other than Ash, including the finalist of the Sinnoh league. If defeating a trainer who is definitely capable of winning any league 6-0 easily (Darkrai didn't remotely look tired after it defeated Magmortar), let alone it did that in the top 8 and collected a couple 3-0's is not enough to justify a spot in the E4/Champion tier, then I don't know what does. Yes these battles weren't shown, but I don't see how Hawlucha vs M-Absol's rushed/skipped battle is any more creditable than Tobias's domination against all competitors. Could an E4's ace done better than Darkrai vs Heracross/Torkoal/Gible/Sceptile? Possibly. However even the most reliable ace will eventually underpeform due to the nature of variance, and even then the Darkrai that lost to Ash still did a ton of damage against four respectable foes. I highly doubt AG is capable of doing what Darkrai did to the SL finalist and Ash's first four Pokemon.

Regarding Torkoal and Swellow, it was time constraint that made these two get crushed. It still would have lost to it's respective foes, but realistically it would have put up a better fight.

Interestingly how AG was portrayed in the opening rounds was similar to Darkrai, except that Ash didn't use AG until the semis.

I think AG could have done the same thing, since base Zard swept the league up to the finals (and AG > base Zard obvs)
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
Interestingly how AG was portrayed in the opening rounds was similar to Darkrai, except that Ash didn't use AG until the semis.

I think AG could have done the same thing, since base Zard swept the league up to the finals (and AG > base Zard obvs)

Where's the respek on Metagross? He used him for sweeping too.
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
Tobias's Darkrai literally swept everything in it's path other than Ash, including the finalist of the Sinnoh league. If defeating a trainer who is definitely capable of winning any league 6-0 easily (Darkrai didn't remotely look tired after it defeated Magmortar), let alone it did that in the top 8 and collected a couple 3-0's is not enough to justify a spot in the E4/Champion tier, then I don't know what does. Yes these battles weren't shown, but I don't see how Hawlucha vs M-Absol's rushed/skipped battle is any more creditable than Tobias's domination against all competitors. Could an E4's ace done better than Darkrai vs Heracross/Torkoal/Gible/Sceptile? Possibly. However even the most reliable ace will eventually underpeform due to the nature of variance, and even then the Darkrai that lost to Ash still did a ton of damage against four respectable foes. I highly doubt AG is capable of doing what Darkrai did to the SL finalist and Ash's first four Pokemon.

Regarding Torkoal and Swellow, it was time constraint that made these two get crushed. It still would have lost to it's respective foes, but realistically it would have put up a better fight.

So Pikachu defeated a Champion Level Pokémon?
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
This is the final time I'll say it again, in brief: Diantha didn't come to battle to win, but to battle to gain knowledge of an unknown entity. She was visibly taken aback by the shape change, and caught off-guard by the stat boost. Was A-G landing a hit good? Sure. Is this indicative of A-G now being superior to all Champion/E4 Pokemon? **** no. I'm not going to overrate the heck out of this feat. Landing some hits on (M)-Gardevoir, defeating (M)-Abomasnow, defeating M-Sceptile, and losing after a bit to MCX < 'Peakachu' IMO. All of "this A-G OHKOs all of Ash's mid-tier Pokemon" or "A-G sweeps most of the greatest FB's Pokemon" or "A-G > all Champion, E4 Pokemon" is just XY circlejerk and A-G overrating. Hopefully the same won't happen when Ash's Decidueye wins with Doom Bloom.

You realize the fallacy in your argument right? You're claiming that A-G can't be greater than base Gardevoir because you can't accept the potential consequences if that were true (ergo you don't like them). I'm sorry but that isn't objective. My current argument is simply that A-G > base Gardevoir irrespective of the implications from this claim and unlike yours my interpretation actually has an objective backbone.

-Facts
-The writers explicitly brought up Ash previously not being able to get Diantha to use ME as a plot point
-Diantha has an explicit inner monologue statement that directly acknowledges (non-mastered) A-G's power
-Ash's friends make an explicit statement acknowledging (non-mastered) AG's speed relative to Gardevoir
-Diantha used ME only after witnessing A-G's power and speed
-(non-mastered) A-G kept up with suppressed MG
-Mastered A-G momentarily overpowered suppressed MG

-My Assumption
-Suppressed MG >= Full Power Gardevoir since otherwise ME would have been redundant

-My interpretations
-Diantha resorting to ME signifies Ash's progression, and him and A-G being able to rise to the occasion
-Based on the facts and my assumption, A-G > base Gardevoir

Now please do the same. State all of the facts your utilizing, state your assumptions and then state your interpretation based on your facts and assumptions and then we can let the PAD decide who they think has the better interpretation. You realize that you could still argue against the potential consequences of this claim even if the claim itself were true. For example: you could argue that Diantha was an especially weak champion (she wasn't) or that Ash's tier 3s and 4s wouldn't be OHKed by Champion lvl opponents. Once again, you can believe whatever you want but don't pretend that your interpretation has the most evidence or the logic high ground because it doesn't. Also, the consequences of a claim don't affect the merits or de-merits of said claim so please don't use that fallacy for this. FYI, the potential consequences of your conlcusiom are far more absurd than the potential consequences of mine IMO but let's just stick to the argument at hand for this particular debate.
 
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Navin

MALDREAD
Malva's narration denoted Astrid's Mega Absol as being the top dogs of the league. Hawlucha defeated Mega Absol and Alain's Metagross is above Hawlucha.

Because Tyson's Metagross is rivaling Tyson's ace who struggled against a Persian. Tyson's Metagross's performance was seemingly phenomenal based on its performances against a weakened Swellow and Grovyle who both have a significant type disadvantage which is what emphasized Metagross's defensive capabilities to begin with. Tyson's Metagross was not uber powerful let alone Tyson's ace who struggled immensely with another league competitor. Strangely, I could argue that Metagross was used to sweep through majority of Remo's team which is superior to defeating a weakened Swellow and a Grovyle with a type disadvantage.

There are so many wrong and random assumptions in this line of thought that it's not even worth bothering.

I need an explanation as to how Tobias's Darkrai is somehow comparable to an E4 and Champion, yes. Oddly enough, Swellow and Torkoal are both specific choices. Torkoal made Registeel kneel, so literally slapping it away like an ant was used to cement Darkrai's strength, same goes to Swellow given that its resilience and tenacity couldn't surmount Latios's power. They weren't nerfed, they were simply competitors used to highlight Tobias's power, nothing more, nothing less. If not, then it just makes me think less of Darkrai and Latios.

LazyEyes already hammered away this line of thought.

Your issue is that Ash-Greninja lacks feats, but if so, then the pokemon Darkrai defeated lack feats that compare to fighting Diantha's Gardevoir and overwhelming it to the point where it elicited the need for Mega Evolution. All of these places A-G on a much higher level than Tobias's Darkrai who lacks such feats if that's the game you want to play. And yeah, it's an objective analysis, but I can tell that your argument is far from objective and your brash accusation of my presence as an alt won't change that.

Ignoring that your claim has no basis other than your bias against AG, a pokemon who can seriously damage a champion ace puts it within the same realm of power. Add in the fact that Greninja was not fully mastered, AG ~ base Gardevoir > Peakachu is a lowball. Once again, your ignoring that it is highly unlikely that the writers would have Serena spout inaccurate interpretations (which would serve no purpose whatsoever other than demonstrate that Serena is stupid). The most probable and reasonable case is Serena (as done with spectators a lot) was used as a device to convey the writers interpretation of the battle.
How. The context points exactly towards Gardevoir being forced to mega-evolve. Even assuming TR somehow became a threat to the Champion, Diantha must be a terrible champion if her pokemon gets exhausted by using her full power for a few seconds.

Verbose snip

I can one-by-one refute everything, but the crux of the matter is all of you and the other XY-bent doppelgangers that flock to this thread place way too emphasis on the Diantha battle and her Mega-Evolving her Gardevoir. Was A-G landing a couple of hits good? Of course. But when you consider context, you guys just run off the cliff with that feat. It doesn't align with A-G's other performances against (M)-Abomasnow, (M)-Sceptile, and (M)-Charizard. Instead, I see statements like "A-G OHKOs all of Ash's mid-tiers", "A-G can sweep through most of Brandon's Pokemon," "A-G > Champion, E4 Pokemon", "A-G is much better than Tobias' Darkrai." This isn't undermining A-G; it's stopping the circlejerk and overrating that's taking place. Go ahead with it, but nobody else is going to take it seriously and/or it will just be ignored.
 

Charizard-Fan

Star Wars fan
I think Ash would best Brandon 6-4, though if Brandon's 3 non-legendary Pokemon are as strong or even close to Brandon's Regis, I think Brandon would have a chance to win barely.

Speaking of Greninja, I certainly don't think it would be able to sweep most of Brandon's team. I can see it taking down 2 of his non-legendary Pokemon, maybe barely 3, depending on how strong Brandon's non-legendary Pokemon really are. However, if it would face Brandon's Regis, I think Ash Greninja would be able to take down 1 Regi (any of them) but not 2 and most certainly not 3. I also think Ash's Greninja is overrated, though it certainly is a very strong Pokemon. Based on Greninja vs Charizard on Kalos League finals, Greninja still has a pretty long way to long before it surpasses Alain's Mega Charizard since Greninja wasn't able to defeat Charizard despite Pikachu weakening it before, and it looked to me that even after it beat Greninja, it still had strength to go on and take a couple of more hits. Sure, Charizard flinched a bit at the end of the battle, but it wasn't breathing heavily, and it didn't really look that tired and it had no trouble standing after the battle. I'm sure it was tired, but not tired enough to fall after 1 more hit.

By the way, how do you think these matches would go:

Brandon vs Cynthia (3 on 3 fight)
Volkner vs Flint (3 on 3)
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
There are so many wrong and random assumptions in this line of thought that it's not even worth bothering.

Except none of them are wrong nor are they assumptions other than the possibility that Alain's Metagross swept through most of Remo's team.

LazyEyes already hammered away this line of thought.

And I don't agree with it.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
I think Ash would best Brandon 6-4, though if Brandon's 3 non-legendary Pokemon are as strong or even close to Brandon's Regis, I think Brandon would have a chance to win barely.

Dusclops is good. Obviously Ash screwed over Charizard, but Dusclops was powerful enough to deal the damage to bring him down. And then it held out for a while before falling to Bulbasaur. 3 Regis + Dusclops + not a shabby Solrock + Ninjask would make for a tough fight. Brandon is experienced, and can capitalize on mistakes easily, so even with GPICSS, Ash has to be on top of his game.


Brandon vs Cynthia (3 on 3 fight)

Don't really see much of Cynthia's other Pokemon. Palmer/Milotic was going toe-to-toe against Cynthia/Garchomp, but Garchomp probably takes out one Regi, and draws against another. The other two Pokemon can take out the last Regi.

Volkner vs Flint (3 on 3)

Flint wins. Volkner going all-out with Raichu/Luxray/Electivire wouldn't make it easy though.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
I can one-by-one refute everything, but the crux of the matter is all of you and the other XY-bent doppelgangers that flock to this thread place way too emphasis on the Diantha battle and her Mega-Evolving her Gardevoir. Was A-G landing a couple of hits good? Of course. But when you consider context, you guys just run off the cliff with that feat. It doesn't align with A-G's other performances against (M)-Abomasnow, (M)-Sceptile, and (M)-Charizard. Instead, I see statements like "A-G OHKOs all of Ash's mid-tiers", "A-G can sweep through most of Brandon's Pokemon," "A-G > Champion, E4 Pokemon", "A-G is much better than Tobias' Darkrai." This isn't undermining A-G; it's stopping the circlejerk and overrating that's taking place. Go ahead with it, but nobody else is going to take it seriously and/or it will just be ignored.

What do you mean by "doesn't align"? All we can conclude without the Diantha feat is MC X > A-G > MS with A-G being closer to MC X than to MS. With the Diantha feat it becomes MC X > A-G > Gardevoir so I really don't see any contradiction. I've transparently laid out my argument so I'm still waiting for yours (facts, assumptions, interpretations). For your quotations: Yes (tier 3s and below), Beats 1 Regi and considerably damages another, Yes (non-Mega variants), Well A-G could beat Darkrai after a good fight but I don't know how much better is "much better".
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
How would a battle between XY Ash and Conway go 3v3?

Ash

Hawlucha
Talonflame
Goodra

Conway

Shuckle
Lickilicky
Dusknoir
 
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