The Pokemon Anime Versus Thread

[GLTSRY]

How would a battle between XY Ash and Conway go 3v3?

Ash

Hawlucha
Talonflame
Goodra

Conway

Shuckle
Lickilicky
Dusknoir

Shuckle vs Hawlucha: Hawlucha
Dusknoir vs Hawlucha: Ash knows how to counter TR, but Hawlucha can only use X-Scissor. Either a draw, or Hawlucha wins only to be easily revenge killed
Lickilicky vs Talonflame/Goodra: Doesn't really matter, either his lick attack won't reach Talonflame and he will be Brave Birded, or Goodra will heal himself from the paralysis with Rain Dance.

So 2-0 for Ash without using his 3rd mon

 

[Navin]

How would a battle between XY Ash and Conway go 3v3?

Ash

Hawlucha
Talonflame
Goodra

Conway

Shuckle
Lickilicky
Dusknoir

People (XY Doppelgangers) are going to say Ash cleanly takes this, but when you consider his personnel, Ash might actually lose (it will be close no matter what).

Problem is Hawlucha/Talonflame have no long-distance attacks (when was the last time Talonflame even used Razor Wind?). So Shuckle can spam Withdraws (like it did) -> Power Trick -> Gyro Ball with offensive boost that can match Lucha/Tflame head-on, if not overpower. Same with Lickilicky. Talonflame might be able to evade the tongue in mid-air, but unlike Noctowl, it still has to come in close where Power Whip, Lick, and a closer area for Thunderbolt all can strike back. Dusknoir's Trick Room also goes invisible, meaning Ash can't use a Lucha X-Scissor to break free either. Rain Dance-boosted Goodra might be able to move very quickly, but since Goodra is dependent on Bide and taking free damage, that speed doesn't offer much benefit; Goodra doesn't have a close-contact attack either.

 

[Genaller]

How would a battle between XY Ash and Conway go 3v3?

Ash

Hawlucha
Talonflame
Goodra

Conway

Shuckle
Lickilicky
Dusknoir

Neutral match:
Goodra vs Shuckle -> Goodra
Goodra vs Lickilicky -> Lickilicky
Talonflame vs Lickilicky -> Talonflame
Talonflame vs Dusknoir -> Dusknoir (heavily damaged)
Hawlucha vs Dusknoir -> Hawlucha (easily by spamming X-Scissor)

The more interesting question is XY Ash vs Nando 3 vs 3:

Talonflame vs Roserade -> Talonflame
Talonflame vs Armaldo -> Armaldo (though Talonflame does do decent damage before falling)
Goodra vs Armaldo -> Goodra
Goodra vs Kriketune -> Kriketune
Hawlucha vs Kriketune -> Hawlucha (good fight)

 

[snorlax512]

How would a battle between XY Ash and Conway go 3v3?

Ash

Hawlucha
Talonflame
Goodra

Conway

Shuckle
Lickilicky
Dusknoir

Goodra sweeps if Conway uses TR, that thing would be faster than greninja

Rain Dance-boosted Goodra might be able to move very quickly, but since Goodra is dependent on Bide and taking free damage, that speed doesn't offer much benefit; Goodra doesn't have a close-contact attack either.

The problem is the reason why Goodra is dependent on Bide is precisely because he is immobile, so he has to tank the damage. If he can move (which under TR he probably will be faster than any of Conway's pokemon) it will basically be a speedy fat mon who hits hard, is hard to hit and even when he does get it tanks a ton of damage.

 

[Ash-Pikachu]

How about Alain vs. Barry (3v3)?

Alain

Weavile
Tyranitar
Metagross

Barry

Heracross
Hitmonlee
Empoleon

 

[Genaller]

People (XY Doppelgangers) are going to say Ash cleanly takes this, but when you consider his personnel, Ash might actually lose (it will be close no matter what).

Problem is Hawlucha/Talonflame have no long-distance attacks (when was the last time Talonflame even used Razor Wind?). So Shuckle can spam Withdraws (like it did) -> Power Trick -> Gyro Ball with offensive boost that can match Lucha/Tflame head-on, if not overpower. Same with Lickilicky. Talonflame might be able to evade the tongue in mid-air, but unlike Noctowl, it still has to come in close where Power Whip, Lick, and a closer area for Thunderbolt all can strike back. Dusknoir's Trick Room also goes invisible, meaning Ash can't use a Lucha X-Scissor to break free either. Rain Dance-boosted Goodra might be able to move very quickly, but since Goodra is dependent on Bide and taking free damage, that speed doesn't offer much benefit; Goodra doesn't have a close-contact attack either.

{Talonflame, Hawlucha, Goodra} ~ (by my tiering) vs Nando team (20) > (by your tiering) {Goodra, Talonflame, Hawlucha} (24) > vs Conway team (26). To be fair we don't know if Conway's Trick Room couldn't be broken since Ash never had 1 of his Pokémon's moves hit the edge of the battlefield (much less an SE move). I'm going to go on the assumption that it can be. Believe it or not Goodra does know Dragon Pulse and Ice Beam. Bide is Goodra's "Suicide Mountain". Sure you could argue that Ash's XY personal can't quite do what his vs Conway team could but Ash'd just come up with alternative strategies for the XY Pokémon. Conway's strategies look great on paper but Ash would just find some improvisations around them like he did in their SL League match.

 

[snorlax512]

Heracross is way too vague to judge how strong it is but whatever:

Tyrannitar vs Heracross --> Draw
Weavile vs Hitmonlee --> Hitmonlee
Metagross vs Hitmonlee --> Metagross
Metagross vs Empoleon --> Draw

I can one-by-one refute everything, but the crux of the matter is all of you and the other XY-bent doppelgangers that flock to this thread place way too emphasis on the Diantha battle and her Mega-Evolving her Gardevoir. Was A-G landing a couple of hits good? Of course. But when you consider context, you guys just run off the cliff with that feat. It doesn't align with A-G's other performances against (M)-Abomasnow, (M)-Sceptile, and (M)-Charizard. Instead, I see statements like "A-G OHKOs all of Ash's mid-tiers", "A-G can sweep through most of Brandon's Pokemon," "A-G > Champion, E4 Pokemon", "A-G is much better than Tobias' Darkrai." This isn't undermining A-G; it's stopping the circlejerk and overrating that's taking place. Go ahead with it, but nobody else is going to take it seriously and/or it will just be ignored.

Which of the following battles doesn't align with AG being base champion level?

Also I don't even agree with half the statements that you claim XY circle jerkers say but whatever

 

[Navin]

The problem is the reason why Goodra is dependent on Bide is precisely because he is immobile, so he has to tank the damage. If he can move (which under TR he probably will be faster than any of Conway's pokemon) it will basically be a speedy fat mon who hits hard, is hard to hit and even when he does get it tanks a ton of damage.

A speedy fat mon that has no close contact attacks. So it runs around firing Ice Beams and Dragon Pulses? Going by game stats, Dusknoir has lower speed than Goodra. Conway's Dusknoir instantly blinked behind Noctowl and smashed it; Dusknoir also stopped Donphan from even going into a roll. That's how fast it is in TR. Literally don't see how Goodra is going to "sweep", if not outright lose to Dusknoir.

Believe it or not Goodra does know Dragon Pulse and Ice Beam. Bide is Goodra's "Suicide Mountain".

Torterra/Suicide Mountain was much worse than Goodra/Bide. Bide at least made sense with Goodra.

Sure you could argue that Ash's XY personal can't quite do what his vs Conway team could but Ash'd just come up with alternative strategies for the XY Pokémon. Conway's strategies look great on paper but Ash would just find some improvisations around them like he did in their SL League match.

It was less of strategy, and more so of Ash's personnel choice. The X factor against Conway was an unorthodox battler in Gible. Its mouth + Draco Meteor (praised by Tobias himself) combo is what won.

Could Ash come up with some other kind of counterstrategy? Maybe, but with how Hawlucha/Talonflame/Goodra battle/their movesets, and individual stats, by no means are they going to comfortably win (if not lose).

 

[Xenon Blue]

Lol Goodra isn't going to sweep Conway, if anything Shuckle can handle it with Power Trick due to Goodra not being able to take advantage of the low physical defense. IIRC Conway did say he trained his Dusknoir so that it is extremely slow in order to move absurdly fast in TR, and Ash never trains his Pokemon to increase a specific attribute so Goodra in TR is not faster than Dusknoir. Hawlucha and Talonflame barely has any answer to Shuckle with Withdraw, seeing as how it literally deflected a Sky Attack from Noctowl by tanking it. The two birds also won't be able to be as fortunate as they were vs Valerie since Dusknoir can Mean Look and Thunder Punch it to death.

 

[snorlax512]

A speedy fat mon that has no close contact attacks. So it runs around firing Ice Beams and Dragon Pulses? Going by game stats, Dusknoir has lower speed than Goodra. Conway's Dusknoir instantly blinked behind Noctowl and smashed it; Dusknoir also stopped Donphan from even going into a roll. That's how fast it is in TR. Literally don't see how Goodra is going to "sweep", if not outright lose to Dusknoir.

I don't see how Dusknoir can beat Goodra in TR since Goodra can't actually move in the anime. Yea, it runs around firing Ice beams and Dragon Pulses. He will be hard to hit in TR, and even if he gets hit it will take many blows to take him down since he can just bide it.

 

[Navin]

I don't see how Dusknoir can beat Goodra in TR since Goodra can't actually move in the anime. Yea, it runs around firing Ice beams and Dragon Pulses. He will be hard to hit in TR, and even if he gets hit it will take many blows to take him down since he can just bide it.

Dusknoir might be just as immobile (you never see it outside TR). Did you see how fast it attacked and dodged? Goodra runs around firing ranged attacks and Dusknoir can just disappear away and come behind it and fire Shadow/Thunder Punches.

Lol Goodra isn't going to sweep Conway, if anything Shuckle can handle it with Power Trick due to Goodra not being able to take advantage of the low physical defense. IIRC Conway did say he trained his Dusknoir so that it is extremely slow in order to move absurdly fast in TR, and Ash never trains his Pokemon to increase a specific attribute so Goodra in TR is not faster than Dusknoir. Hawlucha and Talonflame barely has any answer to Shuckle with Withdraw, seeing as how it literally deflected a Sky Attack from Noctowl by tanking it. The two birds also won't be able to be as fortunate as they were vs Valerie since Dusknoir can Mean Look and Thunder Punch it to death.

This.

 

[snorlax512]

Dusknoir might be just as immobile (you never see it outside TR). Did you see how fast it attacked and dodged? Goodra runs around firing ranged attacks and Dusknoir can just disappear away and come behind it and fire SE Thunder Punches.

Let's assume Goodra is just as slow as Dusknoir because honestly, Goodra can't get much slower. We haven't seen Goodra in trick room, for all we know it could do the same thing. Goodra also has way more endurance and is physically stronger than Dusknoir (who was getting thrown around by Gible). Also, Thunder Punch is NFE against Dragon type.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Cameron vs Ritchie (if this hasn't been done yet. I haven't really played much attention to this thread lol)
I think Cameron would probably win over Ritchie but I think I would be a close battle.

 

[Navin]

Let's assume Goodra is just as slow as Dusknoir because honestly, Goodra can't get much slower. We haven't seen Goodra in trick room, for all we know it could do the same thing. Goodra also has way more endurance and is physically stronger than Dusknoir (who was getting thrown around by Gible). Also, Thunder Punch is NFE against Dragon type.

Dusknoir dematerialized and reappeared behind Noctowl/Gible instantly. Dusknoir wasn't getting thrown around? Nothing is escaping Gible's mouth latching, and if Goodra was Draco Meteor'd into the sky and back, it too would have suffered critical damage.

Cameron vs Ritchie (if this hasn't been done yet. I haven't really played much attention to this thread lol)
I think Cameron would probably win over Ritchie but I think I would be a close battle.

Cameron wins 6-3 or something.

 

[snorlax512]

Dusknoir dematerialized and reappeared behind Noctowl/Gible instantly.

Why can't Goodra do the same? It is as slow as it can get.

Dusknoir wasn't getting thrown around? Nothing is escaping Gible's mouth latching, and if Goodra was Draco Meteor'd into the sky and back, it too would have suffered critical damage.

If Dusknoir was stronger than Gible he could have slammed Gible onto the ground repeatedly or something, but Gible was throwing him wherever he wanted. And Goodra is way stronger than Gible

 

[Ash-Pikachu]

Cameron vs Ritchie (if this hasn't been done yet. I haven't really played much attention to this thread lol)
I think Cameron would probably win over Ritchie but I think I would be a close battle.

I don't know, Hydreigon alone would seem like a task for Ritchie.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

I don't know, Hydreigon alone would seem like a task for Ritchie.

That is true. I guess it depends on how much his team changed if at all. Too bad we haven't seen him since like Johto.

 

[doofinc]

This is the final time I'll say it again, in brief: Diantha didn't come to battle to win, but to battle to gain knowledge of an unknown entity. She was visibly taken aback by the shape change, and caught off-guard by the stat boost. Was A-G landing a hit good? Sure. Is this indicative of A-G now being superior to all Champion/E4 Pokemon? **** no. I'm not going to overrate the heck out of this feat. Landing some hits on (M)-Gardevoir, defeating (M)-Abomasnow, defeating M-Sceptile, and losing after a bit to MCX < 'Peakachu' IMO. All of "this A-G OHKOs all of Ash's mid-tier Pokemon" or "A-G sweeps most of the greatest FB's Pokemon" or "A-G > all Champion, E4 Pokemon" is just XY circlejerk and A-G overrating. Hopefully the same won't happen when Ash's Decidueye wins with Doom Bloom.

Not gonna read the whole thread, just wanna clarify. Are the Ash-Greninja overrated comments you speak of about people who are saying that Ash-Greninja can destroy anything and everything or just people who believe that Ash-Greninja is one of the best or the best Pokemon Ash owns (obviously depending on opinion), but not capable of beating legendaries/champion Pokemon in a serious match without assistance?

 

[Navin]

Why can't Goodra do the same? It is as slow as it can get.

Goodra can't dematerialize and reappear in mid-air. It has to run and jump.

If Dusknoir was stronger than Gible he could have slammed Gible onto the ground repeatedly or something, but Gible was throwing him wherever he wanted. And Goodra is way stronger than Gible

Stop making stuff up. If Goodra's body part got clamped in Gible's mouth, it also would have failed to shake it away.

 

[snorlax512]

Goodra can't dematerialize and reappear in mid-air. It has to run and jump.

Dusknoir can't teleport either. It's just so fast it is depicted as teleportation, like Diantha's Gardevoir.

Stop making stuff up. If Goodra's body part got clamped in Gible's mouth, it also would have failed to shake it away.

I'm not talking about shaking it off. Gible flipped Dusknoir around so that he could shoot a Draco Meteor upwards, if Dusknoir was stronger he wouldn't be able to do that.