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The Pros and Cons of DP

MidnightMelody

Hopeful for Gen 8
DP was a very good arc with a good base. However it had some bad parts in my eyes. For example the way they did contests was a bit ugh... and instead of having Brock it should of just been Ash and Dawn. I love how they handled Paul,Chimchar and the Team Galactic plot. I also enjoyed seeing the Elite 4. What did you like and dislike about it and what elements would you like to see appear in BW?
 

KingMinun

Dawn/Sinnoh Fan!
I loved the contests, wasn't fond of them before DP, but they grew on me, along with Dawn. Dawn is another thing I loved about DP, I started off hating her for being a coordinator after hating the last contest arcs in the anime, but she became my favourite character after I found her relatable too. I enjoyed how they handled her friendship with Ash and glad Piplup stayed out of its pokeball. Dawn's storyline and progression is my favourite throughout the series. I like how she started of confident but then lost it all, then learning from her mistakes and making her a fantastic coordinator. I think Paul is the best rival and character outside of the main characters. The thought and effort put into his character really showed and paid off. The Team Galactic plot was the best villain plot of the series as a whole. There isn't anything I didn't like about the series, the only things I wish they did was visit the Johto Battle Frontier and improve Ash's Torterra.
 

MidnightMelody

Hopeful for Gen 8
I do kinda dislike the trade they did,Ambipom's treatment 1 year gap between Ash's 7th and 8th gym badges.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
The worst thing about DP was Ambipom being released, the rushed league, Dawn's rivals not being interesting, and the DP trio itself having almost no chemistry and memorable moments as a group.

On the other side, mostly everything else was good. I honestly think the DP trio is going to wind up the least remembered trio of the show by the time it ends. It's already been completely overshadowed by the BW trio in such a short time.
 

Hikari Paradise

Forever Alone
Pros: Dawn, excellant plot, amazing rivalry between Ash and Paul, Barry, piplup getting hit over and over again by draco meteor, and showcasing the entire elite 4 plus the champion.

Cons: Zoey, Kenny, Snowpoint to Sunnyshore gap, rushed ending, and Trollbias.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Pros: Dawn, excellant plot, amazing rivalry between Ash and Paul, Barry, piplup getting hit over and over again by draco meteor, and showcasing the entire elite 4 plus the champion.

Cons: Zoey, Kenny, Snowpoint to Sunnyshore gap, rushed ending, and Trollbias.

I noticed you left out Brock entirely. Was that intentional?
 

Hikari Paradise

Forever Alone
^He wasn't good enough to be a pro nor bad enough to be a con.
 
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CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
^He wasn't good enough to be a pro nor bad enough to be a con.

There's also the handling of some pokemon. As said, Ambipom was released for the stupidest reason ever. The Togekiss Dawn got was also pointless. Why did she get a fully evolved Pokemon after all her Contests were over and DP only had 15 eps left? That Togekiss was a ridiculous idea.

Of course Ash's Torterra should have gotten at least one win in its final stage.

Lastly, why do you think Dawn and Misty never met, when they brought her up via the fishing lure in Buizel's capture ep? Its like the writers wrote DP in such a way so that Dawn had no reason to meet Misty or even Tracey for that matter. Any guesses? Because I can think of a few.
 

Hikari Paradise

Forever Alone
^I don't know. They seriously could've scrapped some fillers for a Misty arc since it's been close to 300 eps since we last saw her. As for togekiss I like it because it's a nice powerhouse but I agree it should've been introduced at least 50 eps earlier.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
^I don't know. They seriously could've scrapped some fillers for a Misty arc since it's been close to 300 eps since we last saw her.

My guess is they only wanted to have May show up. Back when DP started in 2006, virtually everyone knew and/or agree May would show up eventually and battle Dawn in a contest, it only happened much earlier in DP than expected.

As for Misty/Tracey/Max? I guess the writers felt they had no reason to be in DP.

May and Gary were like the only two important older characters to get SOME role in DP, even if both of them only got like 4 episodes each.

As for togekiss I like it because it's a nice powerhouse but I agree it should've been introduced at least 50 eps earlier.

I feel as if Togekiss was just a quick replacement for Ambipom. Let's face it, in the finals against Zoey it should have been Piplup and Ambipom. Zoey is the one that suggested Aipom be traded after all.
 

MidnightMelody

Hopeful for Gen 8
There's also the handling of some pokemon. As said, Ambipom was released for the stupidest reason ever. The Togekiss Dawn got was also pointless. Why did she get a fully evolved Pokemon after all her Contests were over and DP only had 15 eps left? That Togekiss was a ridiculous idea.

Of course Ash's Torterra should have gotten at least one win in its final stage.

Lastly, why do you think Dawn and Misty never met, when they brought her up via the fishing lure in Buizel's capture ep? Its like the writers wrote DP in such a way so that Dawn had no reason to meet Misty or even Tracey for that matter. Any guesses? Because I can think of a few.

Does Tracy even exist anymore? There was no mention of him in the first ep of BW when they went to Unova.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
Pros: Paul being the best rival ever. His character was long overdue, I almost wish he was part of the main cast, almost.

Barry, this kid should have taken Brock's place but on the other hand would we get sick of his antics on a day to day basis? I don't know but Barry was awesome.

Dawn is very half and half, she's popular and hated. While I don't like her as much as I use to I still like the idea of her story arc more then May's. It's rare to see a main character really suck and struggle just to stay in the game. Minus Ursula and maybe Zoey, Dawn didn't really need a rival, she was her own worst enemy and I wish they expanded on that during the later half after the Wallace Cup.

The Pokemon were great and expanded on their personalities. The only Pokemon that I didn't enjoy very much was Togekiss because it was such a late comer. The others even Gible and Cyndaquil got time to shine.

The villains were all great, especially Hunter J.

Cons: Ash and Brock. I was tired of both of these guys by DP. (Oh my gosh, I'm tired of the main character I must be crazy) though Ash had moments with his friends and rivals and he was still a awesome trainer, it was his overall presence and personality that I am tired of. Brock is just Brock. I love him but it was time.

Conway was Ash's rival yet the two had no dynamic and Conway wasn't funny with Ash. Conway should have been the Nando of Sinnoh.

The contest rivals either sucked or didn't get introduced at a proper time, but I did like how they could lose appeal rounds opposed to Drew and Harley who were always perfect unless fighting May.

The League was rushed and other then the awesome Paul battle I didn't really enjoy it.

Empoleon was owned by two loser trainers and always looked weak.

I really didn't care that the Sinnoh Frontier was skipped as I didn't care to see Ash win another Frontier but they could have at least shown up like Palmer.

That's all I can think of for now. There is much more.
 
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Zino

Ice Cream Truck
First, lets say about, 30-50 episodes I was sure this arc was gonna be awesome. But after that... it just became boring as what and I didn't enjoy it anymore at all.

Pros:
-Paul. He's still the best thing in Pokémon for me. ^^
-Barry. I was happy they introduced a game character and even a funny one!
-Other game characters in the show. I just enjoyed seeing them
-Team Galactic and how they were handeled
-Reggie<3
-Lyra arc.
-Was there something else... Turtwig? Oh yeah, and Conway!

Cons:
-Dawn and everything she did.
-Piplup and his english voice.
-Contest rivals
-Trio chemistry. Yeah, what chemistry?
-Fillers.... those fillers. And there I was thinking that Hoenn's fillers were boring.
-Pokémon's personalities. It seemed to me, like they didn't have ones. Or maybe I just found them too boring.
-Huge gap between the Snowpoint and the last gym...
-Team Rocket and their usual show in almost every goddamn episode
-No awesome frontier brains. (But then again, if the show would have been longer thanks to them...)
-Chimchar was such a crybaby. -____-
-I'm not sure If i like the way DP made battles...
-Booooooring.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Pros:
Dawn
Paul
Barry
contest moves were used in gym battles
the battles in general
the plot
the villians

Cons:
contest rivals
trio chemistry
snowpoint to sunnyshore
the league was rushed
Brock doing nothing
Misty didn't get a cameo
 
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CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Pros:

Brock doing nothing
Misty didn't get a cameo

Do you believe those two have a reason for happening? I mean they were probably in the planning stages for BW by the mid-point of DP, so they probably already knew they were going to have Brock leave and Misty was never going to appear again anyway, so they did these two things.

There's a reason Iris and Cilan have somewhat similar roles as Misty/Brock did. It seems the writers used DP to phase out Brock's importance and had Misty be non-existent, just so they could bring in Iris and Cilan to fill their old roles.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Do you believe those two have a reason for happening? I mean they were probably in the planning stages for BW by the mid-point of DP, so they probably already knew they were going to have Brock leave and Misty was never going to appear again anyway, so they did these two things.

There's a reason Iris and Cilan have somewhat similar roles as Misty/Brock did. It seems the writers used DP to phase out Brock's importance and had Misty be non-existent, just so they could bring in Iris and Cilan to fill their old roles.

Yeah, I realized that though it would have been better to me to see Misty appear again and for Brock to be more involved with stuff in the show.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Yeah, I realized that though it would have been better to me to see Misty appear again and for Brock to be more involved with stuff in the show.

Well Misty hasn't had an appearance since 2005, when Ash came home from the Hoenn league. She did not appear at all during the rest of the Battle Frontier arc, which was about 60 episodes, or the 191 ep span of DP, or the 45 or so BW eps so far.

Combine all those episodes counts together, and Misty hasn't had a cameo in about 300 episodes. Even Tracey had a more recent appearance then her, as he was in AG's last episode and she wasn't.

Seems to me as if the writers were done with Misty a long time ago, and had no reason to have her meet Dawn at all. I assume the Misty lure in Buizel's capture ep was just a continuity nod to the past, it was never to foreshadow Misty actually appearing.

You can arguably say that DP was written in such a way to downplay Brock and Misty entirely and make them seem as unimportant as possible.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Here are my:
Pros:
-Ash finally got proper rival in form of Paul with their rivalry being played out nicely culminating with great finale and closure
-Team Galactic group of villains was handled in more or less satisfying manner being definitely step up from travesty which Tam Magma and Aqua received.
-Hunter J was possibly one of best villains this show had with writers finally learning how to handle antagonists correctly
-treatment of group pokemon was improved with their personalities coming out on surface more being given more screen time as well some of previous flaws being corrected with writers reducing on number of fillers through various mini arcs like Summer school.tag battle tournament etc
-storyline regarding Chimchar was done in decent manner proving his strength after Paul abandoned him growing in strong Infernap with some sort of rivalry between him and Electivire always being present in a way.
-gym leaders were more fleshed out as characters being properly introduced giving us insight more in their stories along with 4 getting proper debut not being largely ignored like it used to be case before.

Now on cons:
-on of main issues i had with DP was lack of chemistry between Ash,Dawn and Brock group not feeling like family.In groups of two thy had good interacting more or less whether it was Ash/Dawn,Ash/Brock etc but as group they didnt had many memorable moments with interactions seeming forced.
-lack of proper screen time for Brock.While he had some memorable moments receiving his first egg,entering couple of competitions with some of his pokemon getting pretty good treatment(Like Croagunk)he often felt left behind taking backside to Ash and Dawn.Lack of bond between him and female lad and focus big mainly shifted toward development of Ash and Dawn stories forced him sadly out of group dynamic starting to lose purpose.
-rushed league with too many things being crammed in too short period of time
-Misty being completely ignored like she never existed

Overall writing in DP was pretty good when it comes to treatment of character stories with anime plot being treated surprisingly well,but on of downpoints was lack of humor and good character interaction imo.

My guess is they only wanted to have May show up. Back when DP started in 2006, virtually everyone knew and/or agree May would show up eventually and battle Dawn in a contest, it only happened much earlier in DP than expected.

How so?It happened in second season more or less around same time Misty did her regional cameo in Hoenn.

As for Misty/Tracey/Max? I guess the writers felt they had no reason to be in DP.

May and Gary were like the only two important older characters to get SOME role in DP, even if both of them only got like 4 episodes each.

May didnt has any real reason to come in Sinnoh either with Wallace Cup being created solely to give her excuse to be there.If writers wanted to have Misty appear they could com up with various reasons which would justify her presence there whether its for purpose of advancing character storyline or contribute to development of current plot(like May did helping Dawn to get over confidence issues).

Writers had several opportunities for which they could have returned her like:
-coming for some water tournament similar to Whirl Cup to advance her goal
-com to catch some new water pokemon helping them with battling villains like Team Galactic having some relevance to current plot(like Gary for example did)
-play some role in Dawn receiving Togetic
etc.
As we know Misty wasn't fleshed out enough as character having many things unanswered in her story and unexplored(like her goal,potential to find more about past and family,why she decided to pursue career of becoming best one type trainer etc).Her story left unfinished in several areas so its not like writers didnt had excuses to bring her back.

Reason why they didnt i guess is probably because May was recent character which left cast being obligated to give her regional cameo and not wanting to return two previous female leads for some reason in same region.I reckon how they are starting to write themselves in wall risking to have too many previous characters eventually on their hands to have them all returned.

Constant character replacing was proven to be mistake for all aforementioned reasons with older characters starting to get forgotten and ignored in process.If this trend doesnt tone down a bit writers will eventually end up with too many of them to manage to close down all of their stories.

Do you believe those two have a reason for happening? I mean they were probably in the planning stages for BW by the mid-point of DP, so they probably already knew they were going to have Brock leave and Misty was never going to appear again anyway, so they did these two things.

There's a reason Iris and Cilan have somewhat similar roles as Misty/Brock did. It seems the writers used DP to phase out Brock's importance and had Misty be non-existent, just so they could bring in Iris and Cilan to fill their old roles.

First we dont know If and when Misty is going to return.We already saw with appearances if Gary or Jessibelle how unpredictable writers tend to be with this things and if someone so minor could return after years of absence who is to say Misty wont as well?Especially when there are still left loose ends which werent tied up with writers having excuses(reasons) to bring her back having several unfinished things in story.

And second BW trio feels almost nothing like original trio was with there being more differences between Cilan/Iris and Misty/Brock than similarities.Main reason why BW doesnt have contests and Brock got replaced is probably because since 5th generation send out vibe of being more of a "fresh start"than previous ones,with writers waning to mirror those changes with anime explaining why they went back to status of one protagonist and two sidekicks.

Group chemistry and roles current characters in Unova are completely different with ficus in BW being distributed toward development of sidekicks stories barely playing same level of importance to Ash development as trainer like it was case before.Roles Misty and Brock had in original series were to act primarily like Ash coaches and mentors when he was still complete and impulsive rookie.

Reason why Brock was replaced and Misty got ignored has nothing to do with writers trying to "erase their existence to introduce copy of original group".There are no conspiracy theories in children TV show like pokemon with most changes happening to go in correlation with new games.

Your giving them way too much credit.
 

Cuddy

Cyndaquil Master
I do not like how the writers make Ash's Toterra like a dud. As a Turtwig and Grotle, it wins more then lost, but Toterra did not win a match. Should left it as a Grotle.
 

mew151

Thunder Trainer
I agree. Ash's Torterra seem somewhat similar to Paul's making him have Leaf Storm as well. I would have had him learn Wood Hammer instead to give new creativity with Rock Climb or in combinations of other moves. Then again, Wood Hammer in the episode where Grotle evolved wouldn't be very appropriate now, would it? Of course, he still has Energy Ball and Wood Hammer could have used it to catapult Energy Ball.
 
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