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The Pros and Cons of DP

BlueVapor

Well-Known Member
Well Misty hasn't had an appearance since 2005, when Ash came home from the Hoenn league. She did not appear at all during the rest of the Battle Frontier arc, which was about 60 episodes, or the 191 ep span of DP, or the 45 or so BW eps so far.

Combine all those episodes counts together, and Misty hasn't had a cameo in about 300 episodes. Even Tracey had a more recent appearance then her, as he was in AG's last episode and she wasn't.

Seems to me as if the writers were done with Misty a long time ago, and had no reason to have her meet Dawn at all. I assume the Misty lure in Buizel's capture ep was just a continuity nod to the past, it was never to foreshadow Misty actually appearing.

You can arguably say that DP was written in such a way to downplay Brock and Misty entirely and make them seem as unimportant as possible.

Ugh... Please, please, please stop posting the same thing over and over about how the writers were 'done' with Misty a long time ago. Have you met the writers, or can you read their minds, because right about now I'm quite curious to know how you know what the writers want.

Anyway:

Pros:
*Great, developed team for Ash
*Dawn's ribbon quest, she didn't kinda just win everything like May, you know?
*Good rivals for Ash in Paul and Barry
*May appearing
*Team Galactic
*Johto stuff and Lyra!
Probably much more I'm forgetting

Cons:
*Way too long, Sinnoh should've been about the length of Hoenn, and then we should've got a filler arc... anywhere.
*Ambipom leaving, and for that matter Gliscor kind of leaving
*No appearance of Misty: Say what you want, but I wanted my darn Misty appearance :p
*Brock doing about nothing, leading into bad group chemistry
*Dawn's contests, while being interesting, weren't as interesting as May's.
*Rushed League/ending. Brock had like a 1 minute farewell, and Ash didn't even get to Pallet Town by the end of DP...
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Ugh... Please, please, please stop posting the same thing over and over about how the writers were 'done' with Misty a long time ago. Have you met the writers, or can you read their minds, because right about now I'm quite curious to know how you know what the writers want.

You should read Takeshi Shudo's blogs. He was the head writer for the original series, and he was the person who made the decision to have Misty leave the series because of the Johto sagas reception. They were translated on a Rocketshipping website, entry 2 is mostly about Misty, the 2nd movie, etc:

http://www.freewebs.com/rocketshipper/takeshishudosblogs.htm

Ambipom leaving, and for that matter Gliscor kind of leaving

I didn't mind Gliscor leaving anymore because it was like Charizard/Squirtle, not truly released.

*No appearance of Misty: Say what you want, but I wanted my darn Misty appearance :p

She got a brief mention.

*Rushed League/ending. Brock had like a 1 minute farewell, and Ash didn't even get to Pallet Town by the end of DP...

My bigger problem with the league is Ash brought back old pokemon that didn't even get a battle. Where were Glalie and Muk's battle? Or Bayleef and Totodile's for that matter?
 

BlueVapor

Well-Known Member
You should read Takeshi Shudo's blogs. He was the head writer for the original series, and he was the person who made the decision to have Misty leave the series because of the Johto sagas reception. They were translated on a Rocketshipping website, entry 2 is mostly about Misty, the 2nd movie, etc:

http://www.freewebs.com/rocketshipper/takeshishudosblogs.htm
I've read that before, I just don't see how it means that she'll never appear again. I can understad not being on the main cast, but I don't understand how it says she'll never appear again.

I didn't mind Gliscor leaving anymore because it was like Charizard/Squirtle, not truly released.
Agreed, which is why it was only 'kind of' a con ;)

She got a brief mention.
True, same can be said for Max. But I mean, DP was 191 episodes. You mean to tell me out of all of those episode, they couldn't take out 2 fillers and replace them with Misty appearing? Max could've easily appeared with May, imo.

My bigger problem with the league is Ash brought back old pokemon that didn't even get a battle. Where were Glalie and Muk's battle? Or Bayleef and Totodile's for that matter?
Yeah, I forgot to mention that. imo, those were some Pokemon that actually needed battle, especially Totodile... I also didn't like how Ash lost to a trainer with all legendary Pokemon. It feels like such a cheap way to lose. At least the other league's he lost to a 'regular' trainer.

But, I'm starting to rant too much about things that I didn't like and Misty, so yeah... :p
 

CupidKirby

Well-Known Member
You should read Takeshi Shudo's blogs. He was the head writer for the original series, and he was the person who made the decision to have Misty leave the series because of the Johto sagas reception. They were translated on a Rocketshipping website, entry 2 is mostly about Misty, the 2nd movie, etc:

http://www.freewebs.com/rocketshipper/takeshishudosblogs.htm

It only talks about why she left the main cast. For Pete's sake, those on this thread only said they wanted an appearance. Please stop shoving your happiness down anyone who even mentions Misty's (and several who don't) throats.

Good points of DP:
- Ash learns to use contest strategies in his Pokemon Battles
- Paul was a breath of fresh air
- It was nice that Dawn actually lost a contest once in a while. I did get sick of seeing May win all the time.
- Chimchar's storyline was actually interesting for me. Instead of the usual "Ash adopts abused pokemon" we get all the time, he actually has a tie with the one who abandoned him.

Bad Points:
- I thought Piplup was mildly cute at first, but the way they over-advertised it got real annoying real fast
- Kenny; I mean seriously. Leave Ash alone.
- This saga just had a bland feel for me.
- Brock's treatment
- Tobias and his hacking skills
 

JennaJayfeather

Gangrenous Creature
Pros:

-Barry
-Barry's bike got eaten
-Barry would fine people
- Reggie
-Paul
-Chimchar and having a terrible abuser
-Chimchar evolved into Infernape
-Buizel DIDN'T evolve
-Turtwig finally evolved

Cons:

- Piplup
- The Contests. I miss the point system
- The chemistry..I guess something seemed off. I blame the nature in EVERY filler. It was less "Pokemon-y" I guess to me =/ (Or it was just the forums trolled my mind)
- Dawn's rivals
- Torterra. Ash STILL never even uses him right. He's learning but still, he can't use walls. He needs to train with Dia and switch strategies or go under intense training with Riley or something
- Trollbias. Jut for people hating him so much. (but he had a cool english va)
- Aipom leaving after it realized it probably wasn't made for Contests afterall. Seriously. Dawn should have just...got her OWN Aipom. That way Aipom would still be with Ash and safe at Oak's. :<
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Yeah, I forgot to mention that. imo, those were some Pokemon that actually needed battle, especially Totodile... I also didn't like how Ash lost to a trainer with all legendary Pokemon. It feels like such a cheap way to lose. At least the other league's he lost to a 'regular' trainer.

I know, the Pokemon that NEEDED a battle didn't even get one.

I am shocked they passed up giving Glalie a battle. I mean really, it was never used after the Hoenn league ended. I am more shocked that Muk gets brought back randomly for 1 still screen and that's it?

Likewise, it was pretty lame that Bayleef and Totodile didn't get any league match. Granted they got a lot of screentime along with Corphish in that ep before the league though.
 

MetalFlygon08

Haters Gonna Hate
I really hated the way moves were done.

I remember a group scene with several pokemon training at once,

iirc, abmipom was using Charm against pachirisu's thundershock, the hearts were getting shot like a beam crashing into the thundershock, exploding.

or like, let's ride an attack, Swift should not be able to be stood on.

DP contests were good in thought, but the moves were stupidly tweaked to fit a one-time situation.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Speaking of other DP cons one of things i didnt liked is how too many episodes were dedicated to pokemon training and practice with purpose of perfecting techniques for appeal and battling round taking away from focus which could have been used for something more productive or interesting like having more arcs which would include return of older character or focus more on some neglected rivals.

Another negative thing is how underplayed some of Dawn rivals were with Kenny and Nando never being given justice as characters,Not to mention Ursula who had potential to develop fierce and great rivalry with Dawn sadly being introduced too late to domuch with hr.

With Zoey i was more or less satisfied liking her arrogant yet sensible attitude interacting well with Dawn and serving like some sort of mentor from who Dawn manage to learn quite a lot serving as motivation to push hr forward culminating with final clash at Sinnoh Grand Festival with Dawn almost going all way through.

You should read Takeshi Shudo's blogs. He was the head writer for the original series, and he was the person who made the decision to have Misty leave the series because of the Johto sagas reception. They were translated on a Rocketshipping website, entry 2 is mostly about Misty, the 2nd movie, etc:

http://www.freewebs.com/rocketshipper/takeshishudosblogs.htm

And what this has to do with anything?
Most people read those blogs but they just dont care.And why should they?
Opinion from one writer who stopped being in charge of this show long time ago doesnt has any influence of their liking for Misty or other characters.
Misty will always be recognized as first and iconic girl being likable by many because of hr multicolored personality,unique goals and aspirations and sad backstory to which many could relate.

Mr.Shudo not caring for character he wrote not doing it justice is his shame and failure as writer.
Misty was clearly considered as important part of pokemon series,otherwise writers wouldnt keep her for 5 years being longest lived female traveling companion,they wouldnt give her 4 episodes in chronicles making her central character,5 cameo episodes in Hoenn and several references through tokens like fishing lure,appearing in openings in queen of hearts card along with Ash mom Dehlia etc.

I've read that before, I just don't see how it means that she'll never appear again. I can understad not being on the main cast, but I don't understand how it says she'll never appear again.

It doesnt mean anything in reality.Shudo stepped out from position of head writer long,long time ago with Atsuhiro Tomioka doing series construction from Hoenn and onwards.Since new writers are in charge we dont have any idea how thy feel about said character and what are their plans regarding her return in future.
Fact that they were willing to return decade old characters like Gary or Jessibelle in DP shows how it doesnt matter to them how long someone was gone being able to bring him back if they decide to do something with character later on making him relevant to current story.
If someone so minor could return there is no reason why someone more popular and important like Misty couldnt as well.
When and for how long Misty will appear depends solely on them being able to even bring her back as main character again giving her justification and role to play important part in new series as far as they are concerned with no influence on their decisions or any input being present anymore.

Other writers as we get to see probably cared much more for Misty character which can be noticed with several things being improved in her story and development when mr.Shudo stopped doing series construction in mid Johto with Misty focus starting to increase being treated better from Master Quest and onwards.

Also they obviously arent "done with Misty"considering how her story never received closure with many things being left unexplored like her goal of water master for example having room to grow more.
 
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matt0044

Well-Known Member
I've made this no secret of mine so I may as well say it once more: one of my biggest cons of of the Diamond & Pearl series *sigh* was Dawn losing in the Sinnoh Grand Festival finals. Dawn was the one character of the DP Trio that I remotely liked throughout the four seasons. So when she lost against Zoey in "A Grand Fight For Winning," I was pretty disappointed and odds are that most of you guys reading this know why especially if you recall one of my first threads in the "Anime Spoilers" section. You know the one.

The way I saw it, Zoey could've acted more as both a mentor and a rival for Dawn in that Zoey would help Dawn mature and help her become a better coordinator, teaching her to learn from her mistakes, think things through and more. All this would culminate in the finals where Dawn would defeat Zoey thanks to her rival's help. Not only would this have been ironic but an unpredictable twist as no one on these forums would've foreseen this event and if the final battle and Dawn's victory was written well, then people would've like it (well, those who liked Dawn, that is). Plus, on a personal note, I really wanted to see Dawn's elation upon winning and following in her mother's footsteps.

But no. The writers had pull the same s**t with Ash and May again. Sometimes I question whether not these goals our "heroes" strive for have any real point when Ash has been traveling for years with no real league victory and May and Dawn will never (so far) be seen again. I mean, Ash wants to be a Pokemon Master but he hasn't won even a single, solitary league and May and Dawn want to become top coordinators but I guess we'll never know for sure now. I dunno about you but I don't like this one bit.

Anyways, that was the biggest con for me. Disagree with me all that you want but I won't change my thoughts.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
I've made this no secret of mine so I may as well say it once more: one of my biggest cons of of the Diamond & Pearl series *sigh* was Dawn losing in the Sinnoh Grand Festival finals. Dawn was the one character of the DP Trio that I remotely liked throughout the four seasons. So when she lost against Zoey in "A Grand Fight For Winning," I was pretty disappointed and odds are that most of you guys reading this know why especially if you recall one of my first threads in the "Anime Spoilers" section. You know the one.

Not only would this have been ironic but an unpredictable twist as no one on these forums would've foreseen this event and if the final battle and Dawn's victory was written well, then people would've like it (well, those who liked Dawn, that is). Plus, on a personal note, I really wanted to see Dawn's elation upon winning and following in her mother's footsteps.

I think the writers just stopped caring about the contest plot by that point. It became obvious halfway into DP that neither Zoey nor Kenny were received well by the fandom, and Nando dropped off the face of the earth for like 3 years, so it felt like they were just going through the motions by then.

This is the main reason Ursula was introduced, a last-ditch effort to spice up the contest arc and bring in a new character. Unfortunately Ursula never got to live up to her full potential due to her late arrival.

I honestly think this is the reason most DP contests became only 1-part episodes. The Contests played second fiddle to all the Ash/Paul stuff and Contests were no longer new and fresh like they were back in AG. The fact that the Grand Festival was so rushed, screwing over Jessie's development as well in getting there, and we only saw Dawn battle two people to get to the finals says a lot.

The Contests didn't have the stamina to last in the anime for 8 years. The writers didn't have a choice to make Dawn anything else as no other goal existed, but in retrospect it would have been better if Dawn had a new goal instead. It almost felt at some point like there was no reason to see Dawn triumph over her rivals at all.
 

matt0044

Well-Known Member
I think the writers just stopped caring about the contest plot by that point. It became obvious halfway into DP that neither Zoey nor Kenny were received well by the fandom, and Nando dropped off the face of the earth for like 3 years, so it felt like they were just going through the motions by then.

This is the main reason Ursula was introduced, a last-ditch effort to spice up the contest arc and bring in a new character. Unfortunately Ursula never got to live up to her full potential due to her late arrival.

I honestly think this is the reason most DP contests became only 1-part episodes. The Contests played second fiddle to all the Ash/Paul stuff and Contests were no longer new and fresh like they were back in AG. The fact that the Grand Festival was so rushed, screwing over Jessie's development as well in getting there, and we only saw Dawn battle two people to get to the finals says a lot.

The Contests didn't have the stamina to last in the anime for 8 years. The writers didn't have a choice to make Dawn anything else as no other goal existed, but in retrospect it would have been better if Dawn had a new goal instead. It almost felt at some point like there was no reason to see Dawn triumph over her rivals at all.

I don't think the writers care (too much) about what we forum-goers think. If that was so, the Anime would've been immensely improved years ago.

Also, it would've been better if Dawn's rivals were only Zoey (with a better, more lively personality) and Ursula (just the way she is but gets a change of heart when Dawn beats her in the GF). It'd be fitting since Ash's DP rivals (excluding Conway and Nando since they basically did jacksquat) are male (Paul and Barry). It'd also help if the writers balanced out Ash and Dawn's character arcs better, meaning they'd have to write a much more linear story.

In other words, Dawn and her rivals could've been good from the get-go if the writers put more thought into their stories and characters like Hidenori Kusaka (author of Pokemon Adventures/Special).

Another con is Team Galactic's limited appearances. They were awesome but barely featured. It's a disappointment since their one of my favorite evil teams (my next is Team Plasma) and the writers could've really expanded on Team Galactic's subplot immensely. But no, they had to waste time on the TRio and repetitive stories each episode.
 
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Pros:
Dawn
Piplup
Villians
Cons:
Contest Episodes, i can't stand them!
No Misty
Brock did almost nothing except in the last DP episode
i really didn't like the DP episodes
 

Shadow XD001

Well-Known Member
I think the whole pacing (or at least most of it) was very bad. By the time Ash had 3 badges in DP we were already on DP68 but with BW we got up to that part on BW23 (25 including the skipped TP vs. TR) which is a huge difference. There's a lot more, too. Also, I hate how Dawn traded Ash Buizel and got Aipom who she eventually just gave away as Ambipom! The good things in DP are: Paul, Chimchar, and the whole thing with Team Galactic were all very well done.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Just curious, but why are people putting "Con: no Misty appearance."

Were there people who really thought she was going to appear in DP? While I did think Misty was going to appear at Pallet before we knew it would be in BW1, I honestly never thought Dawn and Misty would meet.
 

BlueVapor

Well-Known Member
Just curious, but why are people putting "Con: no Misty appearance."

Were there people who really thought she was going to appear in DP? While I did think Misty was going to appear at Pallet before we knew it would be in BW1, I honestly never thought Dawn and Misty would meet.

I don't understand why you just can't accept the fact that people wanted her to appear. For some even, it might not even be that they THOUGHT she'd appear, they just WANTED her to appear. See? Plus, I mean she was in High Touch, it's not like it was impossible to think she could appear looking back...
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Just curious, but why are people putting "Con: no Misty appearance."

Were there people who really thought she was going to appear in DP? While I did think Misty was going to appear at Pallet before we knew it would be in BW1, I honestly never thought Dawn and Misty would meet.

yeah, according to some of the posts some people thought she was going to appear.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
yeah, according to some of the posts some people thought she was going to appear.

Just curious, but why? We knew Gary would appear in DP because the last ep of AG basically said he was going to Sinnoh. We all also figured May would appear in DP at some point due to obvious reasons.

Unlike May and Gary, the only reason Misty could have appeared was to debut Togekiss....but of course the writers had Dawn get Togekiss instead.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
yeah, according to some of the posts some people thought she was going to appear.

Several people judging by posts thought Misty might return as main character after DP ends because of writers not being story-wise done with her character and because of various rumors circulating around.

Just curious, but why? We knew Gary would appear in DP because the last ep of AG basically said he was going to Sinnoh. We all also figured May would appear in DP at some point due to obvious reasons.

Unlike May and Gary, the only reason Misty could have appeared was to debut Togekiss....but of course the writers had Dawn get Togekiss instead.

What im more interested in is why every single time someone posts "Misty not appearing" as negative thing or expressing his wish of wanting that "Misty returns"you seem to be extremely bothered about it?

People have every right wanting to see their favorite characters again and gt some update and development about them and their opinions shouldnt be censored because of it.

Since Misty story was left unfinished with many things being left unanswered and since she appeared in Hoenn having several references along with appearing in "High Touch"opening most people figured out how she is bound to return at some point in DP.
Fact that her fishing lure was showed in early Sinnoh also led people starting to think how this was writers foreshadowing toward Misty(Kasumi)soon appearance.

Like i said before there were several reasons for which Misty could have returned in Sinnoh if writers intended to have her comeback:
-like come for some water tournament to advance her dream and demonstrate skills as water trainer(after all she wants to become best water pokemon trainer/water master) fitting her.After all even ex pokemon director mr.Hidaka in interview mentioned possibility of coming for something like that if she returns.
-to travel there to catch some new water types and learn about them or meet and try to catch legendary water type being one of her childhood dreams(for those who dont remember it was brought up few times in OS)serving as plot-line to get involved with current plot and something bigger.Like helping to defeat Tam Galactic or Hunter J like Gary did.
-to play some role in Dawn getting Togekiss

They obviously had excuses to bring her back but chose not to.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Just curious, but why? We knew Gary would appear in DP because the last ep of AG basically said he was going to Sinnoh. We all also figured May would appear in DP at some point due to obvious reasons.

Unlike May and Gary, the only reason Misty could have appeared was to debut Togekiss....but of course the writers had Dawn get Togekiss instead.

There was also that fishing lure in that one episode, which some people thought it was foreshadowing Misty's appearance in Sinnoh.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
There was also that fishing lure in that one episode, which some people thought it was foreshadowing Misty's appearance in Sinnoh.

That is true, but nobody should have taken that as a hint for a character appearing. It was a nostalgic nod to the past, just like Butterfree got in DP.
 
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