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The Semi-Final Frontier! (657)

Discussion in 'Pokémon - Diamond & Pearl: Sinnoh League Victors' started by Serebii, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    I didn't mind Fukamaru's involvement here at first, but now looking back I do wonder why Satoshi chose him for such an integral match. I just didn't think Fukamaru was as strong as Pikachu, Heracross, or Jukain.
    MockingJ likes this.
  2. Daizy

    Daizy I call you honey

    I think I've had an epiphany that just like how Paul represented serious competetive players that appreciate a fair fight in the metagame, Tobias most likely symbolized the players who use hacking to play their games.
    MockingJ likes this.
  3. Ash was stuck on dumb in this battle. I assume he would have watched Tobias's other battles and seen Darkrai use Dream Eater, which would make it obvious that Sleep Talk Heracross wouldn't be good enough.

    I'd go as far as to say he could have put together an arsenal of pokemon that could have beaten Tobias. Obviously the trick is to stay awake against Darkrai.

    Infernape for example would beat Darkrai if it learned Taunt because he resists all of Darkrai's other attacks. Pikachu obviously draws with Latios. Then Ash has 5 pokemon left vs Tobias's 4, if he chooses the right ones (Sceptile, Snorlax and Charizard would have been good choices) I could definitely see Ash winning here.

    The writers didn't even try making this believable. Make him use Torkoal instead of Charizard or Infernape on the most important battle of his life? lol
  4. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Knucklehead Ninja

    Ash's Infernape didn't knew Taunt though, which is a major problem. So Infernape realistically couldn't have beaten Darkrai here.

    And let's be real, the writers brought in Tobias as a plot device to kick Ash out of the League, so no matter what team he used here, he would have lost. If he used Charizard and Infernape, then Tobias's team would have buffed up accordingly, like maybe he would have more Legendaries like Lugia, Latias, Rayquaza, Deoxys, etc. :p
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  5. Well yes but Ash has taught his pokemon new moves in time for league battles before so it's plausible.

    Yeeah exactly, I think that would have been better. At least then Ash would be relying on his best pokemon here which would make sense given the narrative of Tobias being untouchable throughout the league. It's weird that he would use randoms like Torkoal here
  6. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Knucklehead Ninja

    Yeah Infernape learnt Flare Blitz just before the battle with Paul and presumably also learnt Hyper Beam just before the battle against Tobias (as it used that move against Nando). It could be that Infernape was just a lot drained from that fight against Paul and couldn't fully recover in time to be ready for the battle against Tobias.

    True actually, but in that case our wiling suspense of disbelief would have tested for sure wondering 'how on earth did this freaking guy Tobias catch an entire team insanely powerful Legendaries'. :p
    keepitsimple likes this.
  7. KyogreThunder

    KyogreThunder Call of Fate

    I quite liked this episode. After all, Ash is the only Trainer that has been shown to defeat Tobias' Darkrai on-screen. It is a shame that Tobias was just a plot device, as I'd love to see a bit of his backstory, especially him meeting Darkrai and Latios for the first time. Ash's team choices puzzled me a lot, too, as he could have easily used Snorlax and Charizard instead of Swellow and Torkoal, respectively.
  8. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 ^Probably Steven Universe?

    ash only knew about darkrai, and snorlax would've been the worst possible match against him, as for charizard, he probably would've had to fly from johto to sinnoh, or from johto to kanto and then get transported, which would've still taken quite a bit of time
    MockingJ likes this.
  9. KyogreThunder

    KyogreThunder Call of Fate

    But Snorlax isn't actually bad of a choice at all, since we've never seen Bad Dreams activate, and back in Johto, Snorlax was furious when Harrison's Hypno used Dream Eater on it.
  10. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    I agree regarding Kabigon, although Satoshi bringing Lizardon back in Shinou would've been somewhat difficult given where Lizardon was staying at the time.
    MockingJ likes this.
  11. Ignition

    Ignition Champion SZN

    Charizard returned twice in AG when he was in the CV so I don’t see the problem if he returned here
  12. Twilight-Kun

    Twilight-Kun Pokemon World Champion

    Not as bad as people hyped it up to be

    Although Ash's team composition could've been a little better (Torkoal and a baby pokémon? For a League match?)

    Tobias claiming that Ash's Gible's Draco Meteor would've defeated any other pokémon is downright laughable, but it's still nice that Ash at least has his respect as a trainer

    Too bad he'll never show up again and people are still screaming about it a decade later
  13. TheNewGuy

    TheNewGuy Well-Known Member

    Tobias was at least a twist on the league-only rival they did in the previous three gens, and the battle itself was actually good. But there's no escaping that it's shitty. Such an anti-climax.
    MockingJ and Twilight-Kun like this.
  14. Doppelgänger

    Doppelgänger Superancient Member

    It looks like after all these years no one has figured out who voices Latios or Darkrai. Were those roles uncredited?

    I'm quite sure that Darkrai is Kenta Miyake, while Latios is Shinichiro Miki.

    In a cute twist, the Nurse Joy Latias is voiced by Megumi Hayashibara.

    So Jessie and James are actually Latias and Latios.
  15. MockingJ

    MockingJ Banned

    So the producers couldn't be bothered to hire someone new to do the voices for Darkrai and Latios, so they have James's voice actors go into the recording booth to voice them? That sounds lazy.
  16. Bortgreen

    Bortgreen UP NEXT: Let's GO home!

    This might be one of the most absurd battles of the anime, but we have to admit...
    The Volt Tackle vs Luster Purge was one of the best Pikachu moments in leagues until the Kukui battle in SM
  17. RedR

    RedR Well-Known Member

    Still one of my top 5 favorite battles, above even paul vs ash in the league!
  18. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    I liked the fact that Volt Tackle was able to collide with Luster Purge and result in a tie for Pikachu rather than an outright loss, but it's a bit bittersweet that this was the last time that Pikachu used Volt Tackle in a major battle before forgetting the move in Best Wishes.
    Trey pokes and Bortgreen like this.
  19. Bortgreen

    Bortgreen UP NEXT: Let's GO home!

    Btw I'm surprised Tobias wasn't known as "Darkraison" back in 2010, instead of "Legendary/Darkrai trainer"
    For some reason Ash has like three league rivals with names ending in -son
    Leonhart likes this.
  20. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    The pattern of the dub adding "-son" to the names of Satoshi's League rivals was getting a bit tired anyway from my perspective, so I'm glad that Takuto was given a dub name that wasn't so predictable.
    Bortgreen likes this.

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