The Semifinals II: Dazzle (1212)

[Sham]

Yes it’s very neat. It’s like when Lance asked Steven about Alain and Steven was pretty doubtful of Alain being able to stand up to Leon, or Leon still seeing Ash as a rookie. It’s very nice to see all their different takes on the battles and each other.

Not in this conversation but I feel like Leon calling Ash a rookie is bizarre because it’s like they (writers or whatever) want to acknowledge he’s Alola Champion but not quite like the others and still wants him to be the small guy narrative wise

 

[Eevee903]

Not in this conversation but I feel like Leon calling Ash a rookie is bizarre because it’s like they (writers or whatever) want to acknowledge he’s Alola Champion but not quite like the others and still wants him to be the small guy narrative wise

The small guy act. A classic

 

[nuzamaki90]

Not in this conversation but I feel like Leon calling Ash a rookie is bizarre because it’s like they want to acknowledge he’s Alola Champion but not quite like the others and still wants him to be the small guy

Rookie as in his PWC career. Leon knows firsthand that Ash is new to all these festivities and this competitive scene in general. Notice how no one but the audience has actually cared about the titles of these trainers, because in the beginning of the PWC it’s stated everyone, no matter who they are, starts at the bottom and have to work their way up.

 

[GLTSRY]

Kids and your juniors. Commonly used in workplaces to address people that rank below you.

Thanks!

But is it appropriate here? Since the anime keeps mentioning that all Master 8 trainers are equals?

 

[Akkipeddi]

Ironically, despite Cynthia going full power with her switches and and trying to bewilder Ash, I felt Ash struggled more against Steven. The battles ranged from decent to above average (so this is already in the upper tiers of JN battles). Dragonite vs Spiritomb and Pikachu vs Gastrodon were my least favorite of the lot, favorite was Pikachu vs Spiritomb. I also see that Gengar got the same heart attack syndrome as Aggron, looking fine and then collapsing.

It was a decent start to this 3 parter but the next two episodes will really need to knock it out of the park for me to put this episode in the top 5 of all time (and to wash away all the previous JN negativity)

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Sorry long thread and I couldn’t find your original reply.

You don’t think they’re setting up Ash to lose to Leon? He’s already lost half of his team in half an hour. He’s struggling with number two how is gonna be number one?

Na, I still believe they will adapt Leon's loss from the games and his development from that. Ash struggling isn't anything new imo, and the gap between Cynthia and Leon doesn't need to be big just because he defeated #6 and #5 decisively

I don't really see where these Ash vs. Paul comparisons come from, and how these surface level similarities constitutes as such.

Ash vs. Paul had a lot of non-linear switching involved on both sides, and clever strategies employed by both boys with minimal forced dumb moments for Ash. This one so far has had half-and-half on the latter, and none of the former from Ash.

Ash vs. Paul was a back and forth pendulum where the advantage (at least in numbers) swung back and forth with Ash taking the lead initially before Paul started dealing damage with a strategy centralized around Drapion, then Ash making a huge comeback and leading 3-1 remaining before Paul sweeped Ash's weakened Pokemon and bringing it down to a final 1v1. This battle on the other hand makes it so that Cynthia will be leading the advantage throughout till the end (the preview clearly shows Cynthia's 2 vs Ash's Lucario at the end).

That is SUCH a disingenious take on the battle so far

Cynthia leading the advantage throughout the end? Oh please. This episode itself showed that didn't happen with Cynthia taking lead, Ash then taking lead with momentum and pushing Cynthia back and then ending it with Cynthia again bringing matters down to dire for Ash with destiny bond. This episode itself featured a Cynthia-Ash-Cynthia back and forth pendulum, and the next episode doesn't make it seem like Dracovish and Sirfetchd will just go down
Just because she's in leads in the numbers doesn't mean it's not a back and forth pendulum, Jesus

 

[Blue Saturday]

Yes it’s very neat. It’s like when Lance asked Steven about Alain and Steven was pretty doubtful of Alain being able to stand up to Leon, or Leon still seeing Ash as a rookie. It’s very nice to see all their different takes on the battles and each other.

There used to be a time where people would complain about everyone being an Ash simp.

I wish we got more interactions between the adult characters like that, Carne call Dande -kun meanwhile Shirona gets called -san which kind of gives us an idea of their dynamic. I always pegged Dande as being the youngest adult champion with Shirona being older than both.

 

[Sham]

Rookie as in his PWC career. Leon knows firsthand that Ash is new to all these festivities and this competitive scene in general. Notice how no one but the audience has actually cared about the titles of these trainers, because in the beginning of the PWC it’s stated everyone, no matter who they are, starts at the bottom and have to work their way up.

Aren’t all of the other Masters 8 new though? At the very least Iris and probably Alain are known to have slid in recently since one isn’t a Champion so he probably had to work harder and other just became one.

I get your point but I don’t think he would have said that to anybody else but we don’t know so point taken.

 

[KingMinun]

Is the episode guide correct for this episode?
It has Dawn, Ash’s Aipom, Turtwig and Chimchar listed in the characters so did they make a cameo or flashback?
Can’t see them in the episode pictures

 

[Eevee903]

Ironically, despite Cynthia going full power with her switches and and trying to bewilder Ash, I felt Ash struggled more against Steven. The battles ranged from decent to above average (so this is already in the upper tiers of JN battles).

Which is sad,this should be the bare minimum.

Dragonite vs Spiritomb and Pikachu vs Gastrodon were my least favorite of the lot, favorite was Pikachu vs Spiritomb. I also see that Gengar got the same heart attack syndrome as Aggron, looking fine and then collapsing.

Kinda a lame why to die ngl..
Dragonite is Flygon vs Dragonite all over again.

It was a decent start to this 3 parter but the next two episodes will really need to knock it out of the park for me to put this episode in the top 5 of all time (and to wash away all the previous JN negativity)

Part 2 needs to step up the gass for me. Part 1 was kinda slow

 

[nuzamaki90]

Aren’t all of the other Masters 8 new though? At the very least Iris and probably Alain are known to have slid in recently since one isn’t a Champion so he probably had to work harder and other just became one.

I get your point but I don’t think he would have said that to anybody else but we don’t know so point taken.

Pretty sure that’s because Ash and Leon are more cordial than Leon is with the others. The others are his rivals while Ash is more like his little brother coming to take his title.

 

[Sham]

Na, I still believe they will adapt Leon's loss from the games and his development from that. Ash struggling isn't anything new imo, and the gap between Cynthia and Leon doesn't need to be big just because he defeated #6 and #5 decisively

Okay gotcha/. I guess it really depends on how you would rank Cynthia between Diantha and Leon. I still think no matter how weaker Diantha was taking two Pokémon out for a full team is brutal but you could be right.

 

[Yce288]

Female trainers in a 6v6 battle against Ash using destiny bond to knockout a rampaging pokemon. Where have I seen this before?

The episodes even ends the same way, Katie's Misdreavus used Destiny Bond on Ash's Glalie, Ash is left with 3 Pokemon and Katie is left with 4 Pokemon.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Okay gotcha/. I guess it really depends on how you would rank Cynthia between Diantha and Leon. I still think no matter how weaker Diantha was taking two Pokémon out for a full team is brutal but you could be right.

One thing I noticed from my rewatch of Diantha vs Leon is that when Leon says Diantha made him sweat again and again, it doesn't seem like he's referring to this battle
It seems more like he's referring to past battles they had and that today as in this battle, he just got lucky

 

[Eevee903]

Let's calm down. Geez. Let's just say the battle varies from okay-ish to great and leave it there!

 

[MetaMantis]

The episodes even ends the same way, Katie's Misdreavus used Destiny Bond on Ash's Glalie, Ash is left with 3 Pokemon and Katie is left with 4 Pokemon.

Let's add the Hoenn league to the list of Leagues this tourney is mimicking, along with Kalos's sweeper finalist, Unova's lost episode, and Sinnoh's strategies.

 

[Sham]

One thing I noticed from my rewatch of Diantha vs Leon is that when Leon says Diantha made him sweat again and again, it doesn't seem like he's referring to this battle
It seems more like he's referring to past battles they had and that today as in this battle, he just got lucky

I didn’t like the connotation in that either. Leon is probably my second favorite Champion but that comment was tone deaf on the writers part. I get that he was being humbled but you practically swept this woman and tanked a Fire Blast. He was that good.

Especially when Gardevior kinda got one shotted because the flames never actually hit Charizard

 

[Eevee903]

I didn’t like the connotation either. Leon is probably my second favorite Champion but that comment was tone deaf on the writers part. Essentially when Gardevior kinda got one shotted because the flames never actually hit Charizard

It was weird. That is for sure. Doesn't fit Leon to look down on his opponents.

 

[Dephender]

Thanks!

But is it appropriate here? Since the anime keeps mentioning that all Master 8 trainers are equals?

Yeah, because they're still adults talking to/about children.

Disrespectful and condescending imo

Quite the opposite, it establishes that they acknowledge a relationship between you rather than just seeing you as some random person.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I didn’t like the connotation in that either. Leon is probably my second favorite Champion but that comment was tone deaf on the writers part. I get that he was being humbled but you practically swept this woman and tanked a Fire Blast. He was that good.

Especially when Gardevior kinda got one shotted because the flames never actually hit Charizard

Honestly for me it makes it better because it says that Diantha has done better against Leon and that for this battle, it was just Leon's lucky day
It felt like a way to soften the blow of them wanting to prop up Leon, so i like it even if it doesn't automatically make things okay