DayQuil95
Well-Known Member
Well, we have implications that he did against Titus, which leaves Lucario, Krookodile, and Sceptile as the only aces to not have gotten 3 Ws in a single battle.
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The Semifinals III: Valor (1213)
- Thread starter Serebii
- Start date
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
That guy was fodder. With how Greninja’s power level should have been it should have beat 3 of Sawyers Pokemon in one battle (2 reg, 1 AG) and 3 of Alain’s Pokémon (including MCX) (1 reg, 2 AG) in one battle
Mistycallsstaryu
Well-Known Member
What did Cricket do wrong apart from accidentally angry a few posts? I skim through the threads most of the time so I'm genuinely out of the loop...
Yes yes yes yes yes!! This was a muuuuuuuch better battle! I felt like it was always Ash’s Kanto mon and Lucario that got all of the love, not helped by neither Sirfetch’d or Dracovish having shiny gimmicks. But they really got a chance to shine today and man did they look good. From Dracovish tantruming through the poison and that once-horrifying Iron Head to Sirfetch’d actually landing a hit on Garchomp who I swore Cynthia was gonna keep fresh for Lucario. None of her Pokémon are unscathed now and I love it.
I loved that little twinkle of Ash’s mega stone when he called out Lucario, making it obvious that’ll be his gimmick of choice this battle. Which makes me pretty darn psyched that he’ll probably be GMaxing Gengar in the next battle if he wins this one. Cinderace popping out to cheer on Lucario was extra sweet. Mostly because we honestly don’t see that fun bun much anymore. My only nitpick is a minor one; I wish Cinderace and Lucario were as close now as when they were a Raboot and Riolu. I can just imagine the role switch of Riolu constantly bothering Raboot to spar and Raboot trying to keep them from picking fights with every Pokémon. That aside, I’m glad we had this moment. Kick some butt Lucario, your ditzy girlfriend is cheering you on! Oh, and the monkey that usurped her too, I guess.
I loved that little twinkle of Ash’s mega stone when he called out Lucario, making it obvious that’ll be his gimmick of choice this battle. Which makes me pretty darn psyched that he’ll probably be GMaxing Gengar in the next battle if he wins this one. Cinderace popping out to cheer on Lucario was extra sweet. Mostly because we honestly don’t see that fun bun much anymore. My only nitpick is a minor one; I wish Cinderace and Lucario were as close now as when they were a Raboot and Riolu. I can just imagine the role switch of Riolu constantly bothering Raboot to spar and Raboot trying to keep them from picking fights with every Pokémon. That aside, I’m glad we had this moment. Kick some butt Lucario, your ditzy girlfriend is cheering you on! Oh, and the monkey that usurped her too, I guess.
Mistycallsstaryu
Well-Known Member
Hey, it could just be a random bug!
Huh, I never noticed the BIB...Are you sure it's Cricket you mean and not somebody else?
Sceptilee
Well-Known Member
About Mega Garchomp, it's possible she only acquired it recently? Perhaps a gift from her friend Diantha. Considering the messed up Pokémon timeline, it's not been a year since Ash was in Sinnoh and we know Mega Garchomp wasn't a thing then (heck, it didn't even exist but that's a different story). We only really see things from Ash's perspective but Cynthia has been battling from before Ash was born, as have many other Champions who never saw her use a gimmick before which would explain their surprise. I doubt the answer is that she never fought a worthy trainer before or anything like that, fighting Dialga would definitely have been an appropriate time lol.
As for Base Garchomp being powerful, there's no doubt about that, perhaps that's why Cynthia decided that it seemed better to have effectively 2 Ace lvl Pokémon as opposed to just 1 super strong mon in this battle. We've already seen Leon's Base Charizard easily take care of Alain's Mega Zard and while Garchomp is not at Leon's Charizard's level, it's quite clearly the second strongest mon and probably atleast on par with Alain's Mega Zard at it's Base form, if not better. Gen 6 and onwards had a huge powercreep in the form of Mega Evolutions, then Z-moves and now Dmax/Gmax. And the power-ups are very significant. Steven's Metagross that was kept in check by Dracovish was suddenly clowning on Pikachu, Ash's Ace and a fast Pokémon in it's own right. Lance’s Dragonite, who had taken a lot of damage while taking out Amaurus, was still able to fight decently well against Mega Gardevoir after Dmaxing. This is why I don't have as much of a problem with Base Garchomp going down to Mega Lucario as I would have had if they were both Mega'd. Lucario is already a strong Pokémon in it's own right, so it makes sense that Mega Evolution pushes it up even further. And hence there's no shame in Base Garchomp ultimately losing to it after a very even match, infact it's a testament to Base Garchomp's strength more than anything.
In Iris's case, I think Base Garchomp would have won against Haxorus, no question, so I won't really call that Mega Evolution a plot device. For me atleast, it was more of a recognition of Iris's strength from Cynthia because that was the first time she had used it in public, even if she did acquire it fairly recently. Haxorus was able to keep up with Base Garchomp fairly well but after the Mega Evolution, it was always behind and you can tell the difference at the end of the battle when Haxorus is damaged all over but Mega Garchomp doesn't seem that damaged, despite Haxorus getting a good hit on it. If that were Base Garchomp, it would probably have been more similar to the Sirfetch'd battle or even more damaged since Garchomp still has a lot of juice left seeing as it is able to keep up with Mega Lucario from the trailer. I think the purpose of giving her the Mega Evolution was to show us that Cynthia isn't behind any of the other Champions when it comes to using gimmicks, otherwise you could argue that Steven is stronger since Mega Metagross in theory should be able to beat just a Base Garchomp. Plus it also allowed them to misdirect us so we wouldn’t expect her playing the Dmax card here. Cynthia only really got two matches so only seeing Mega Garchomp just once isn't that big a deal, I'm sure we might see it again in the future assuming Cynthia returns.
Eevee903
You are awesome!
You should give credit where credit is due.
An amazing battle 8/10! Hope next week is just as good!
Sirfetch’d was the mon of the episode and Dracovish was a tank.
My only nitpick was too much Morpeko.
Has been a while since I gave a Journeys episode a 8/10. So good job!
An amazing battle 8/10! Hope next week is just as good!
Sirfetch’d was the mon of the episode and Dracovish was a tank. My only nitpick was too much Morpeko.
Has been a while since I gave a Journeys episode a 8/10. So good job!
Sham
The Guardian of War
The thing is you’re trying to save Cynthia from all avenues. She didn’t need to use her secret weapon against Iris because you think it makes her looks weak, that same battle is stopping her from Mega Evolving out of predictability and now Dynamax Togekiss somehow makes sense so Ash gets a free win.
I skimmed through but I got the idea. There is no shame in base Garchomp losing but if Cynthia loses Togekiss quickly to make it a ace vs ace battle then it comes off like a dumb mistake
Discussing Garchomp’s strength is fine but it makes the trainer more shameful than the Pokémon. Let’s be clear, that Togekiss battle is not going to be very long in an half an hour battle. So if Cynthia’s Togekiss is going down easily despite barely taking hits from his other Pokémon it looks crazy.
Cynthia doing that out of respect costs her winning the next match because she didn’t want to be a one trick pony and now it’s coming back to bite her. Respect or not I would have kept that hidden.
Either Cynthia comes as stupid and you’re spared of Mega Garchomp losing or Cynthia Mega Evolves and loses without being nerfed
I’ve kinda gone and over this discourse that Cynthia did it out of respect more so because it makes no sense relatively to me. If I’m play against a soccer player and I’m extremely experienced I’m not going all out and making them feel especially smaller.
Another thing is, was respecting her more important then exposing your trump card and having to change the plan because you did so?
Again not the conversation but when I said “plot device” I meant to just hype people up. As in hype up a possible mega battle they were never going to do
I would think if literal mega charged bolders were falling on you you’d be pretty out cold.
That whole conversation regardless need to be put to rest. Also I’m speaking as an individual I’m not going harder than somebody with less experience. That’s over killed and embarrassing my opponent, it’s basically a flex not matter how you see it. Again just my piece and I really don’t want to go into much further.
I think that’s embarrassing that somebody decided to clown you on national TV just because they wanted to. That’s just me but I don’t find that respectful at all and tone deaf if that’s why she did it
Anyway that’s just my opinion but feel free to keep yours
Right but the issue is when she said she said “I will defeat you will all my might”. Implying she considers this her strongest weapon above all why is she not using it? Exposing it once isn’t that bad. The writers purposely hyped this and didn’t give its.
If she considers this all of her might why are you risking the semis?
You mean lying? Bassically?
It’s probably never returning unless DP games warrant it
Tldr I would not consider somebody flexing on me respectful intentional or not
I don’t necessarily believe Diantha gave her that keystone especially when they’ve barely talked until just recently
Thank goodness that “respect” thing wasn’t explicitly said and basically head canon because I would have felt embarrassed
Iris got clowned
Cynthia is stupid
Ash is getting a free win.
So if “respect” was the true reason than that’s a whole domino effect.
This comes as people trying to say Mega Garchomp wasn’t needed in the first fight because she wasn’t need anyway while saying it’s good she didn’t mega evolve here because it saves her reputation. Which is it?
So you’re either saying Cynthia was so much above Iris and respected her that she used her unneeded secret weapon against against her vs an opponent who can actually cause her to lose and that’s smart? All so Mega Garchomp looks good?
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MetaMantis
Offline until Ash vs Leon
What happened to "I am the neutral guy"?You should give credit where credit is due.
An amazing battle 8/10! Hope next week is just as good!
My only nitpick was too much Morpeko.
Has been a while since I gave a Journeys episode a 8/10. So good job!
Eevee903
You are awesome!
Nothing lol. If the episode is very good, it just gets an extra point
When it is good,you also have to mention it
Eevee903
You are awesome!
In fact I did. Good guess! My opinion always changes when I watched it with subs. But I try to stay neutral if possible.
Rune Knight
Well-Known Member
What an amazing episode.
Sirfetch'd refusing to fall while not being conscious provides me with Rock Lee and Whitebeard vibes. What a boss.
And I'm happy that Dracovish got the win.
9.5/10
Sirfetch'd refusing to fall while not being conscious provides me with Rock Lee and Whitebeard vibes. What a boss.
And I'm happy that Dracovish got the win.
9.5/10
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Sham
The Guardian of War
I thought this was very obvious but h(sh)e have been less trolly and annoying so I ignored it
doofinc
get rillaboomed
Typing this instead of they or at least (s)he should be a bannable offense, what is this bracket abomination
Sham
The Guardian of War
I thought it looked crazy but I couldn’t put my mind towards it. I’ll just say gender neutral trollTyping this instead of they or at least (s)he should be a bannable offense, what is this bracket abomination
SkyBlaze9125
Well-Known Member
I like to discuss this concept of "respect." Whether, Cynthia's Garchomp in base form could beat Haxorus (it could due to experience and other reasons), Cynthia see Iris as a strong opponent worthy for her to go all out and bring out one of her trump card. So, don't clown on Iris because Cynthia consider her a strong opponent to use Mega Evolution on.
Than, you may ask the question than "what about the other trainers Cynthia didnt use Mega Evolution on?" and I'll give you some answers
1. Mega Evolution didnt exist back in the DP era so she couldn't have use it.
2. Cynthia recently obtain Mega Evolution, When? I'll leave it up to your imagination. so she didn't have much of a chance to test it out.
- The same goes for Dynamaxing. (P.S. I think she got her Dynamax band from Bea)
Than, you may ask the question than "what about the other trainers Cynthia didnt use Mega Evolution on?" and I'll give you some answers
1. Mega Evolution didnt exist back in the DP era so she couldn't have use it.
2. Cynthia recently obtain Mega Evolution, When? I'll leave it up to your imagination. so she didn't have much of a chance to test it out.
- The same goes for Dynamaxing. (P.S. I think she got her Dynamax band from Bea)
Shadao
Aim to be a Pokémon Master
I don't agree. Cynthia was just as strategic as ever. Natural Cure for Roserade, then using Poison Jab to ensure Dracovish will faint anyways; Garchomp using Stealth Rock; Milotic using the same tactic on Dracovish that it did on Dragonite; Togekiss used as a Dynamax Pokemon rather than Mega-Garchomp.
It's consistent to how she played in Part I. The only difference is that Ash is getting the hang of battling Cynthia and his Pokemon are determined enough to see it through.
Rune Knight
Well-Known Member
I personally don't think that the issue was that those gimmicks didn't exist in-universe; yes in the real word they weren't conceptualized yet, but in the world of the anime I think that they were already being used, it's just that we didn't see them.
We just never really saw Cynthia battle opponents strong enough to pin her to rely on ME or D-Max.
I think that Cynthia chose not to use ME against Iris for tactical reasons. ME, while being a powerhouse, is probably risky as it maybe drains the Pokémon of their stamina and should maybe only be used as a last resort.
As for D-Max, well as the expression goes, the bigger they are the harder they fall.
In other words, they are sort of double-edged swords.
This is just my speculation of course!
Sceptilee
Well-Known Member
I agree, I still think going Mega Garchomp from the start would have been the best move honestly because that would have allowed her to take care of Dracovish and Sirfetch'd far more easily, resulting in it taking even less damage. I think Cynthia was overconfident and was underestimating the resolve Ash's Pokemon had. She probably intended Roserade to defeat Dracovish after the opening blows from Garchomp, and then full health Milotic would have been way more competitive against Sirfetch'd, either winning or crippling it enough that Garchomp could easily come in for the one. It obviously didn't play out like that though.
As for why Cynthia did what she did, it was either planned from the start or it was a heat of the moment thing. I think Lucario countering Air Slash was actually what promted that because she realised her Togekiss couldn't do much to it, and Garchomp was weak enough that even Mega Garchomp could lose to a nearly full strength Mega Lucario. By Dmaxing Togekiss, she could actually deal some damage and take hits, enough that Base Lucario could clean up the remainder. In retrospect, this will probably be a bad decision but she hasn't been put into a corner for a long time unlike Ash who's been up against it for most of his recent battles.
I don't know about that, she's a smart trainer who would absolutely use every method at hand to win, like sleep, Destiny Bond etc. The element of surprise is handy, yes, but she basically had no knowledge of who she would face back then. I doubt she used it then without intending to do so again.
About the respect part, I guess it differs for different people. I understand where you're coming from but that would probably go for, say, a regular trainer battling her where she would hold back knowingly, as Diantha did at first against Greninja. Iris however is a regional Champion and an equal to Cynthia, I feel personally that Cynthia taking her seriously and not holding back at all was a sign of acknowledgement, especially using a Mega Stone no one had seen before. Iris would probably have felt insulted if she were to find out that Cynthia held back against her, or like Leon Gmaxing Rillaboom just for the heck of it to entertain the crowd. Perhaps that's just me though, but while I would definitely prefer an NBA level player to go easy on me, I'd be insulted if someone around my skill level or slightly better did that to me.
I was a bit confused by the plot device part but yeah, it was definitely meant to hype people up while also showing that Cynthia wasn't playing around. It's as I said previously, I just feel like Iris would feel worse if she finds out Cynthia had a gimmick but didn't use it against her, instead using it against Ash. Iris has clearly worked hard to get to this point so I don't think it's insulting in the slightest to have one of the strongest Champions go all-out against you. Or if Iris doesn't, perhaps Cynthia atleast feels that way because her intention was never to clown on Iris.
Regardless, you're right that there's no right answer or opinion, we all have our tastes and dislikes so that's just how it is, I won't want to force my perspective on someone else either.
I think of Cynthia as a trainer who probably plans for each eventuality beforehand, it would be very poor to just pick one strategy when you don't even know what Pokémon your opponent uses. Against Iris, there were only 3 Pokémon so she likely always intended to Mega evolve Garchomp if needed for the power boost. Against Ash, she had 6 Pokémon and could afford to be a lot more flexible. She doesn't seem to have the overwhelming (read: ridiculous) strength that Leon's Pokémon seem to have, like that Rillaboom sweep, rather she relies a lot more on the tactical side of the game. Mega Garchomp was probably always a consideration but she ultimately decided what she thought was best in that situation.
But yeah, that's from Cynthia’s pov. From the writer's pov, who knows if they had already planned Ash vs Cynthia when they were writing this battle. Regardless, Mega Garchomp is such a significant thing that they definitely intended to feature it in atleast one match, seeing as it takes Garchomp’s power to new levels. I won't really say they lied because we've seen Ash vary his gimmicks, it's only fair that Cynthia does too I suppose and I'd rather have this sort of surprise than a "surprise" like some of the shoddy battles we've had this season. The writing for this one has just been so much better comparatively, especially after the damper that was Leon vs Diantha.
Also yes, I don't really see Garchomp returning for a while, if at all, so the same goes for Mega Garchomp too obviously. Maybe the Unova remakes might make Cynthia relevant again!
The Diantha thing is entirely just something I said haha, would be nice if it were true though!
And lastly, once again, while I understand the respect thing from where I'm coming, it's fine for you to keep your opinion because as I said, there's no right answer! One man's meat is another man's poison so I can see how it might look insulting from your pov and is a view probably shared by many others. I'll just add again that I don't think that this fight particularly had anything to do with her not using Mega Garchomp against Ash, I suppose we'll know next episode whether she had preplanned this or if it seemed like the best choice at the time.
Sorry for the walls of text haha, hope you have a nice day