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The Semifinals III: Valor (1213)

SkyBlaze9125

Well-Known Member
Cynthia could have just killed Dracovish while it was stunned rather than command Garchomp to use stealth rock...

Sirfetch'd being a bigger threat to Garchomp than Iris' Haxorus doesn't sit right with me. Ideally, Dracovish and Sirfetch'd would have jobbed and Lucario would be the last jackal standing.
To be fair, Sorfetchd moved so freaking fast that Garchomp didn’t have time to counterattack compare to Haxorus. Also Haxorus never shot it boosted Dragob Pulse at Haxorus but focus on taking out the Draco Meteor.
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
But it kneeled,so it was. But idk why Chomp can take hit so many hits,same with Lucario. Plot I guess
Idk and this idea that Sirfetch’d is the first Pokémon to make Garchomp have visible pain is revisionist history

Torterra made it hurt with Giga Drain
Flint’s Close Combat in the final episode of DP
Caitlin literally smashing it against the wall with Psychic

Huh?
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
Because that Hypnosis thing was just a question and became something else and you people just concluded this conversation just recently on Wednesday.

I just had to throw that disclaimer because that’s draining and exhausting but I appreciate you answering
Well the Hypnosis stuff had a ton of holes in it and a good chunk of bad faith posting, apples and oranges compared to wondering about how much damage these Pokémon could/should take/deal to make the onscreen result satisfying and realistic.
 

BlobbiBoi

Well-Known Member
How is Mega Lucario taking out her second ace with a gimmick and then having enough energy to take out her main ace… better than just defeating Mega Garchomp? Let alone more realistic?

Because people have slapped Cynthia onto a pedestal in the fandom for years because she's - apparently - a cut above the other Champions. Her Garchomp alone has been shown as an inhuman powerhouse since the DPP anime days.

If Cynthia rolled in with her full force MegaChomp and still got rolled by Lucario the forum would probably be calling it abysmal writing and nonsensical.

So having Ash struggle against her even with Mega Lucario doesn't devalue how powerful her Garchomp is and makes the case that had the battle played out a bit differently she might have been able to win. Nobody walks away from the episode seeming like they were made intentionally weaker; instead Cynthia's choice is simply a tactical one that doesn't pan out and lets Ash take the win.
 

Sceptilee

Well-Known Member
Question and I know you guys like to make a big deal out of everything.

We all know Sirfetch’d couldn’t have done that much damage since Garchomp is putting in work towards Lucario in the preview.

How is Mega Lucario taking out her second ace with a gimmick and then having enough energy to take out her main ace… better than just defeating Mega Garchomp? Let alone more realistic?
I don't know the answer to that myself, perhaps she realised that Lucario was just going to counter everything Togekiss would throw at it, like it did with the Air Slash, rendering Togekiss useless. And then Mega Garchomp, having taken a strong hit before, might not have been able to defeat Mega Lucario. By Dmaxing, Togekiss comes into play again by virtue of having more bulk and stronger attacks, and her Base Garchomp is still sufficiently strong enough that it can take out what's left of Lucario after that.

Perhaps she also wanted the element of surprise because it felt like Ash was taking control of the battle at that point. It might even have been something she preplanned which is why Togekiss had only made a brief showing up until that point. It's really hard to say, I guess we'll know more in the next episode if Cynthia has any specific strategy that Dmax Togekiss can pull off.
 

Mythical-Moonlight

I just ran, I ran all Night and Day ~
I haven't seen the episode yet but judging by the number of pages

This was either a damn good episode or a real fawking bad/controversial one
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
I haven't seen the episode yet but judging by the number of pages

This was either a damn good episode or a real fawking bad/controversial one
Watch the episode and stop pre-game doom posting :p
 

sutellakiara

Shirona, my beloved...
Wasn't this the Iwane episode? Because I saw zero stellar animation. In fact, they re-used stock footage like crazy this episode and the oddly increased amount of Team Rocket, and specially Morpeko eating, screamed trying to fill up as much runtime to animate as little fight as possible.

I feel like I would have been more impressed about the duck removing the Stealth Rock from the field if it had been something early-mid match rather than something late match. And when the only remaining Pokemon left has x4 resistance. And if the opponent was someone who actually switched up. Funnily enough, the abomination not wanting to switch out was actually beneficial because of course that's when Ash wanted to switch Pokemon after a million years, with SR on the field and the abomination at death's door.

And wow, where was that aimbot on the shield on all the previous battles of the duck?
I really wanted to find to find the duck fainting while standing up but I seriously could not. Duck jobbed way too much in the past to find it believable he's the first Pokemon ever in the anime to truly damage Garchomp. Bummer.

Also, spent the entire episode going WILL SHE MEGA SHINKA? MEGA SHINKA NOW??? MEGA SHINKA!?!?!?! and then Cynthia finally pulls out the Dynamaxed Togekiss, the super duper secret shocking mega tweeeeeest and, like, there's barely a reaction? The announcer is the one who reacted the to the most. Ash just went "WELL, TIME TO MEGA IN RESPONSE!!!" when he was the one expecting the Mega Evolution the most through the entire match.

Seeing Infernape throwing punches while at the ranch was depressing.

And RIP Garchomp. Movepool got gutted by TV regulations. Couldn't they have given her Scorching Sands or High Horsepower something? Or even Dig? Go full shark with that with the fin protruding out of the ground or something for the cool factor. Say it was an Infernape reference. I don't know.

Oh right. Thankfully, Garchomp will no go through the ignominy Metagross went through and she took a W. I was worried she wouldn't get even one.

This episode was kinda underwhelming. Not even just bad bad, just kinda there.
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
I don't know the answer to that myself, perhaps she realised that Lucario was just going to counter everything Togekiss would throw at it, like it did with the Air Slash, rendering Togekiss useless. And then Mega Garchomp, having taken a strong hit before, might not have been able to defeat Mega Lucario. By Dmaxing, Togekiss comes into play again by virtue of having more bulk and stronger attacks, and her Base Garchomp is still sufficiently strong enough that it can take out what's left of Lucario after that.

Perhaps she also wanted the element of surprise because it felt like Ash was taking control of the battle at that point. It might even have been something she preplanned which is why Togekiss had only made a brief showing up until that point. It's really hard to say, I guess we'll know more in the next episode if Cynthia has any specific strategy that Dmax Togekiss can pull off.
Right but how do you spin this? Mega Garchomp has only been used on one trainer (and no I’m not hyping Iris up) but prior to that it was still displayed as being strong and without that Iris battle we wouldn’t have even known it existed.

So isn’t it still odd it was shown as a power house way before mega evolution even existed but is still bowing down to Mega Lucario after he’s taken damage? To make even worse by her second ace using a gimmick?

At the end of the day Mega Garchomp has only been used once and Garchomp has been portrayed stronger than most way before that

If we’re truly being honest, we wouldn’t have even known that lipstick existed before Cynthia pulled it out. I still think people would have had a problem with but hindsight is 20/20 so that’s debatable but still

And considering they just gave her a Mega Lipstick that probably will never be used again, isn’t it just best comparing base Garchomp?

Quite frankly Mega Garchomp was just a plot device that’s probably never going to be used again. Dynamax Togekiss is mostly likely as well but he’s taking that out and then her ace
 
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thor94

Well-Known Member
i'am pretty sure the writers had cynthia taking the togekiss dynamax path only because they perfectly knew that ash wouldn't stand a reallistic chance if garchomp was the one blessed with any of the pokeverse existing power-up. like for korrina in kalos, they are nerfing cynthia battle style during the official fight to give ash a chance to win.
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
i'am pretty sure the writers had cynthia taking the togekiss dynamax path only because they perfectly knew that ash wouldn't stand a reallistic chance if garchomp was the one blessed with any of the pokeverse existing power-up. like for korrina in kalos, they are nerfing cynthia battle style during the official fight to give ash a chance to win.
Or maybe she’s taking a different route, she was pretty much having a power match against Iris while being more defensive and against Satoshi more strategic.

She just has range.
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
i'am pretty sure the writers had cynthia taking the togekiss dynamax path only because they perfectly knew that ash wouldn't stand a reallistic chance if garchomp was the one blessed with any of the pokeverse existing power-up. like for korrina in kalos, they are nerfing cynthia battle style during the official fight to give ash a chance to win.
Right… expect the only Pokémon that Mega Garchomp was fighting is Haxorus and was shown to be reactively strong before that happened from DP to etc. We don’t know how strong Mega Evolution is for Garchomp.

And let’s be clear if the writers cared about realism a lot of things in this show wouldn’t be happening. And let’s be clear on another thing that the lipstick is never showing up again

They even teased Garchomp Mega Evolving here. So no I don’t think the writers wanted to “realistically” make this battle. He’s knocking out her second ace who’s barely taken any damage with a gimmick and then beating her primary ace who still seems in good form during that preview.

And if you’re saying it’s out of realism than Cynthia pays because it makes her look stupid for not Mega Evolving her ace or it’s saying she was so confident she didn’t feel the need to. All in the name of “realism”. Pick your poison. I doubt that’s why they did that. It was for shock value
 
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sutellakiara

Shirona, my beloved...
Question and I know you guys like to make a big deal out of everything.

We all know Sirfetch’d couldn’t have done that much damage since Garchomp is putting in work towards Lucario in the preview.

How is Mega Lucario taking out her second ace with a gimmick and then having enough energy to take out her main ace… better than just defeating Mega Garchomp? Let alone more realistic?
Because at the end of the day and no matter how much people try to pretend otherwise the only ones that "matter" are the acemons/the ones who end up being the last ones in the battle. Unless something non-ace has a super duper ultra mega hyper amazing performance on a battle, see Spiritomb, Rillaboom, Drapion, or a particularly cool scene, duck fainting standing up, Hawlucha vs Weavile, the rest might as well be filler.
Before the spoilers, or before today, did you ever see a single person go "Oh boy I sure hope Cynthia Dynamaxes Togekiss and finishes the battle with it rather than Mega Garchomp"? Before the battle begun did you ever see a single person who cared about Cynthia's Togekiss would perform during the battle at all?
Togekiss will mememax and no matter how much "wow, sugoi, so surprising, so unexpected, sasusa Shirona-sama so strategical" the Togekiss is gonna job to the shilldog with nothing to show for it. Plus, there's also how mememax might as well be called jobbermax based on its non-Leon showings through all of PM.
Cynthia's Garchomp is the peak, the goal, the insurmountable wall, hyped to sky-high for over a decade. At the end of the day Togekiss, even if maxed, feels more like a pebble in the middle of the road for the main course. Except now the steak doesn't have the sauce making it forever incomplete, it'll still be tasty for sure, but the sauce was the thing that truly completed the main course. Who cares if the entree had an extra little something?
And that's why it is "better". Because now that Garchomp didn't Mega, and by consequence, was not fighting at full powerlevel, the fight will forever have an asterisk next to it about what could have happened had Cynthia actually Mega'd her ace rather than Mega Togekiss whatever the reason you may want to think it is for. Be it that you think that the writers are purposely nerfing her or that the writers wanted to show she doesn't depend on just Garchomp. No matter which side of the argument the thing still boils down to "What if Mega Garchomp instead"??? aka the asterisk.
 
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