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The Semifinals IV: Impact (1214)

Soniman

Break the Limit
If it was not any less important then they really made a terrible job at portraying so. And not just this battle but all the other M8 battles too.
The whole tournament is built-up at the expense and detriment of all other characters on it just for the sake Leon.
The only character who felt that way was Alan I don’t know how you can honestly believe this besides your hatred for Leon, even Diantha who got a bad loss at least got to show her prowess in Lance’s battle, Iris took Cynthia down to her last Pokémon and Ash fought tooth and nail for his wins (besides the z move save in Steven) but the mere idea of Leon existing invalidated them is laughable

And I have never seen Cynthia not having Lucario as some major issue until literally today so I can only imagine this is for the sake of finding things to get mad about since since several users have frequently expressed being tired of Lucario pandering and wanting Ash’s in particular head on a pike so I absolutely refuse to believe you people would’ve suddenly been fine with two Lucarios in the same battle
 

sutellakiara

Shirona, my beloved...
Are you seriously saying you would have wanted something as boring as a Lucario vs. Lucario battle over Togekiss? This fight would have been far more dull to sit through if Cynthia had a Lucario as well. Togekiss actually did some great stuff. A Lucario vs. Lucario battle would have been awful.
A Lucario Mirror would have been more interesting than Triple Jobnite!
But speaking seriously for a bit, I don't particularly care that anime Cynthia does not have a Lucario. It's an odd choice but you can see the meta reasoning as to why not. My posts are arguing back against the argument that Lucario is not a iconic Pokemon of hers of which it is definitively is.
If you ask me I'm more annoyed about no Kommo-o during the battle with Ash.

Heck this is the FIRST time I'm hearing anyone say Lucario is iconic for Cynthia. I'm sorry but she's always been associated with Garchomp and Spiritomb more. She's had Roserade in all her teams pretty much too, is that iconic as well?
Well, congratulations of getting out of under the rock you've seemingly been living in since DP came out, I guess.
And yes, it is. What does that have to do with anything? Roserade is definitively one of the iconic Cynthia team™ Pokemon alongside Milotic.

Masters shilling mons for money doesn't mean anything
So Masters ">D-Doesn't count" because Gacha bad. Gotcha.
Despite Masters taking direct inspiration from the games. Continuing plotlines from the games. Expanding on characters in ways the games never did and the anime would never dare do so. Etc.

By the way, we're gonna call PM bad too then, right? Since it's inspired by GO and taking so much from it and all. Fair's fair after all.

are you gonna tell me Lisia is heavily related to Shiny Galarian Rapidash or that Nate was always associated with Braviary and on and on
So because Masters does its own things sometimes it magically does not make all the other things that are very obviously rooted on the original source invalid? Okay dude.
I guess that makes the anime as a whole doing invalid too since the anime LOVES doing its own things too, right?

I'm sorry but this is the forcing of game stuff into the anime to prove a point which isn't there.
The anime is literally based of the games. The anime does not magically pop into existence on its own. How can you seriously be saying that anime doing the things the games does is "forcing them"?

Does Iris use Hydreigon?
People complained TONS about Iris not using Hydreigon and using jobnite instead.
And if we're taking into account one of those arcade games it seems Iris does indeed have a Hydreigon.
And funny, Champion Iris in Masters Sync Pair Pokemon is Hydreigon. Gee, I wonder why?
Just because the anime does not have Iris using a Hydreigon does not magically means Hydreigon is not one of Iris, the character as a whole, iconic Pokemon. The anime is the ODD one here, the anime is the exception, not the rule.
 
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RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Just a reminder that writers avoid same Pokemon battles because it is hard to make a difference between Pokemon. Exceptions are when one of them is shiny or have a different form.
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
Just a reminder that writers avoid same Pokemon battles because it is hard to make a difference between Pokemon. Exceptions are when one of them is shiny or have a different form.
We literally had Dragonite VS. Dragonite.

Also, the Pokemon themselves wouldn't really trick the opposing trainer into belonging to them (except maybe Zoroark, but they didn't think of pulling this off).
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Why did this thread get locked in between? That was weird
Okay, so even IF we pretend that this version of Cynthia has nothing to do with one of her most iconic Pokémon for some reason, that still doesn't explain why she doesn't know that Lucario, a Pokémon from her native region, would be less than ideal for a Togekiss whose main gimmick is using Serene Grace flinch tactics. Hell, she even knows he has a Lucario!

This is not forcing 'game logic', this is basic logic.

Dude...seriously, if your only defense here is saying 'she was surprised by a Pokémon she'd already seen in action, and that's why she sent her ace rather than using the perfect counter that was waiting in the wings', then I don't even know what to say.

Good, then we have nothing more to say on this topic.


...just to let you guys know, I only have a problem with Ash's Lucario in particular. Lucario is, in fact, one of my all-time favorite Pokémon.
Ah yes Cynthia is the champion of a region so she should know all the abilities and everything about all of the mons in that region...be serious with me rn.
It's not like it was any of Cynthia 's high IQ plan to use flinching against Lucario anyway, just something she tried. It's not like she SPECIFICALLY saved Togekiss for Lucario either.

The insistence she HAD to use Togekiss to be a viable strat because you have the power of hindsight and she doesn't is so weird because what she did all makes sense. Making use of Milotic, taking out Garchomp.

What do you even mean "she was surprised by a mon she saw in action". What Sirfetchd did with Milotic isn't comparable to what it accomplished with Garchomp. It didn't mean whatsoever that it managing to take out a weakened Milotic means it can damage Garchomp to an extent. Cynthia didn't expect that, which is OKAY for her to do. She isn't a computer robot bruh, the anime shows her surprised for a reason. Why are you acting that she was supposed to have the hindsight of knowing Sirfetchd can bring Garchomp to its knees when NONE of us expected it while watching either. Just look at all the duck praises and shock at the start of this thread. Be serious with me

A Lucario Mirror would have been more interesting than Triple Jobnite!
But speaking seriously for a bit, I don't particularly care that anime Cynthia does not have a Lucario. It's an odd choice but you can see the meta reasoning as to why not. My posts are arguing back against the argument that Lucario is not a iconic Pokemon of hers of which it is definitively is.
If you ask me I'm more annoyed about no Kommo-o during the battle with Ash.


Well, congratulations of getting under the rock you've seemingly been living in since DP came out, I guess.
And yes, it is. What does that have to do with anything? Roserade is definitively one of the iconic Cynthia team™ Pokemon alongside Milotic.


So Masters ">D-Doesn't count" because Gacha bad. Gotcha.
Despite Masters taking direct inspiration from the games. Continuing plotlines from the games. Expanding on characters in ways the games never did and the anime would never dare do so. Etc.

By the way, we're gonna call PM bad too then, right? Since it's inspired by GO and taking so much from it and all. Fair's fair after all.


So because Masters does its own things sometimes it magically does not make all the other things that are very obviously rooted on the original source invalid? Okay dude.


The anime is literally based of the games. The anime does not magically pop into existence on its own. How can you seriously be saying that anime doing the things the games does is "forcing them"?


People complained TONS about Iris not using Hydreigon and using jobnite instead.
And if we're taking into account one of those arcade games it seems Iris does indeed have a Hydreigon.
And funny, Champion Iris in Masters Sync Pair Pokemon is Hydreigon. Gee, I wonder why?
Just because the anime does not have Iris using a Hydreigon does not magically means Hydreigon is not one of Iris, the character as a whole, iconic Pokemon. The anime is the ODD one here, the anime is the exception, not the rule.
Congratulations on writing the most reactionary, hilarious and contradictory post yet. I don't even know where to begin with this

"Living under a rock since DP" Do you even know me lmao?
This is straight up history revisionism that Lucario was more iconic than Cynthia 's other mons. Yes Cynthia's whole team was iconic, but the major standouts and main 2 POKEMON associated with her always were Garchomp and Spiritomb only. Rest were as iconic as her team but not anything that stood out specifically as HER. Lucario just has NEVER been that for Cynthia and you can't Gaslight me into believing that lmao. The fact you guys are bringing that up now while trying to bring up nitpicks just proves it even more. Shits hilarious

Wdym by that Pokemon Masters comment. Gatcha = bad? Wtf?
I don't think it's wrong for me to say most of their SS Sync pairs are shilling for money, it's just facts. And it's coming from someone who loves Pokemon Masters EX. It's just how the game is. Yes the game provides its own lore consistent with the games and expands on it, but the expansion is its own thing. Cynthia getting a SS with Lucario doesn't mean Lucario was always iconic to Cynthia lmao.
Lucario was always seen as Riley first and foremost or Sir Aaron. Heck Ash was more iconic with Lucario before he got it then Cynthia ever was. It just never was that linked to her like you guys are pretending to push forward a false comparisons between the games and anime to claim Cynthia should be a Lucario master or whatnot

"Anime is the exception not the rule"
You are SO close to getting the point here. Hydreigon not being linked to Iris in the anime is an anomaly, but it happens. When we've never seen Cynthia similarly with Lucario, why are we acting it can't be another anime thing, even if i was to buy your claim Lucario is apparently very important to Cynthia in game or something. Geez. Argue with the anime's logic don't bring up false arguments and tangents to dogpile and nitpick more on a battle you don't like for whatever reason
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
Has there ever been a same fighting type vs fighting type matchup before tho?
I feel it'll be too repetitive and difficult to come up with an engaging battle for it that won't be simple martial arts, which is probably why they've never done it
Sort of tangential to the back and forth going on here, but I'd argue Lucario (shilling aside) is a species that leans pretty well to this sort of match. If Ash's had kept Steel Beam over Bullet Punch, a hypothetical Special Lucario versus a Physical Lucario with moves like Close Combat, Extreme Speed and Meteor Mash actually could have been handled decently. Lucario is in a position where if the writers were willing to step away from their love of Aura Sphere, they could actually have two Lucario's be pretty distinct from one another.
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
Both Dragonites have a very noticable difference in their look
Just their facial expressions really. I'm pretty sure I talked about how unusual a mirror matchup like that was back then
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Sort of tangential to the back and forth going on here, but I'd argue Lucario (shilling aside) is a species that leans pretty well to this sort of match. If Ash's had kept Steel Beam over Bullet Punch, a hypothetical Special Lucario versus a Physical Lucario with moves like Close Combat, Extreme Speed and Meteor Mash actually could have been handled decently. Lucario is in a position where if the writers were willing to step away from their love of Aura Sphere, they could actually have two Lucario's be pretty distinct from one another.
I on the other hand feel it might end up being a bit boring tbh. Idk a prospective Lucario vs Lucario fight doesn't excite me as much as say, Charizard vs Charizard
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
I on the other hand feel it might end up being a bit boring tbh. Idk a prospective Lucario vs Lucario fight doesn't excite me as much as say, Charizard vs Charizard
Don't get me wrong, I don't think I'd particularly want to see it in any case. My point was more that it could hypothetically be done without devolving into a brawl between two identical Pokemon.
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
Either way, I've talked about this episode really failing at selling the impact of hits a few other times, but like, this shot at the end too. Lucario didn't just stand up as if nothing happened, but it was shot from so far away you really couldn't feel anything from it
Screenshot_20230114_212939_com.android.chrome.jpg
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
I still wonder how trainers can hear each other out from a long distance like that.

But, yeah, that last moment was duuuuuuumb. You just really can't tell Lucario got injured when he just stands up like nothing happened. Not even up close is it any better, really.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Why are some of you acting like the fanbase is a hivemind? Just because some people don't like Lucario means others wouldn't want to see Cynthia use one? What kind of logic lmao. Wasn't a major defense against criticism for Ash's is that a lot of people wanted him to catch once since it debuted in the movie?

As for the actual battle, while I wouldn't go as far as to say Cynthia had a lobotomy (lmao) as I was find with most of her performance, I ironically didn't feel too impressed with Garchomp from the moveset to the final clash. Also don't think we needed Gastrodon or Milotic again and Kommo-o should've been here instead.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
I remember when a lot of you were complaining about me and another user going back and forth about Dragonite going to sleep, and now look at this thread. Hypocrites! All of you. I hope Cyber DM’s you all about how much he doesn’t want Misty and Dawn to meet, and sends a follow up DM to make sure you saw the first one!
Despicable. Wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
Er.....besides the numerous course of dialogue on Cynthia's battle choices that don't need to be repeated....the climax was just bad in general. It literally was just a slap boxing fight with Dragon Claw and Bullet Punch. It's sad that Metagross dodging 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt looked better. Nice soundtrack tho

sigh well at least the general fandom complained about jobbernite being used and not Hydregion
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
Also that Togekiss sounded weird as sh**, I was clapping when Shillcario took it down
 
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