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The Semifinals IV: Impact (1214)

Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
Ragnarok4 said:
I disagree, that would have been true if Mega Lucario had beaten Mega Garchomp, I think Lucario is still below Greninja, especially since he needed the frog energy to win

I'm not cricket so I don't hate Lucario by the way, but let's remember that Lucario needed the support of Greninja to defeat Togekiss, and Sirfercth to defeat Base Garchomp
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Based it’s hard saying who’s stronger. Mega Lucario was stronger because it fought base Garchomp. We don’t know how it would have turned with Garchomp having a boost even with Dynamax of all things
 
SerGoldenhandtheJust

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Sham said:
I don’t they did that in the original introduction though no? Like when they were announcing the other competitors before Alain vs Leon but I could be wrong
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Yeah they didnt because they wanted to have that champion alola episode to emphasise on Ash is representing the Alola region and IS their champion
After re-establishing why Ash's champion title is important and giving it proper context in JN, they start hyping it up and using it in every battle in the show itself, rather than in promotional material only like before
 
TheNewGuy

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
I think the tournament has been way more good than bad (Leon's two battles have been duds, but Diantha/Lance is maybe my favourite non-Ash battle in the show apart from Lana/Guzma and the others were all at least good). The problem has been the breaks, but in hindsight or when binge-watching you won't have to deal with those.

And in Ash/Cynthia they have delivered an all-time classic better than any battle in most other leagues (Ash/Paul beats it on emotion, Ash/Sawyer beats it on animation, Ash/Kukui beats it by being good - though not quite as good - in both).
 
Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
SerGoldenhandtheJust said:
Yeah they didnt because they wanted to have that champion alola episode to emphasise on Ash is representing the Alola region and IS their champion
After re-establishing why Ash's champion title is important and giving it proper context in JN, they start hyping it up and using it in every battle in the show itself, rather than in promotional material only like before
Click to expand...
So, what are whole thoughts in Dynamaxing VS Mega Evolution stance. Did it cost her the match or not really?
 
nuzamaki90

nuzamaki90

Well-Known Member
Amazing end to what is now without a doubt in my Top 5 favorite battles in the anime. The shock on Ash’s face at the end, mirroring his reaction to winning the Alola League, was palpable. I can’t help but feel so proud of him, he really has come so far after 25 years!

Togekiss, that annoying little gnat, was a monster really gave Ash the most trouble throughout this entire battle. Which is something I absolutely love about the way the anime handled Cynthia in general, throughout all the years all her Pokémon have been portrayed as absolute beasts in battle, and the focus isn’t solely on Garchomp. It truly shows her aptitude as a trainer; she is the perfect all-rounder. And even despite all the “nerf” talk, all of Garchomp’s hits were powerful, they were brutal, they were strong, etc. etc. it was such a fierce fight that you couldn’t help but be on the edge of your seat!

Finally, this was the best showing of Lucario in battle yet. Over the last 15 years there isn’t a single Lucario I’ve enjoyed watching fight as much as Ash’s, which is just an incredible feeling. Ash’s biggest hurdle in his entire career has finally been surpassed, and now it’s time for the title match. I’m so satisfied with this battle and I’m glad I got to witness such a historic event for the anime.

The only thing that sucks is no cameos from anyone in Sinnoh, including Paul. That felt so odd. Oh and teenage Cynthia VS who I’m assuming is Palmer in the flashback sequence was rad.
 
Ishiftyounot

Ishiftyounot

The Meme Supreme
Well Ash finally beat Cynthia, and Cynthia finally lost! That's pretty cool, and I think the execution was pretty good although it definitely could've been better. I think last week's episode was the best out of the Ash vs. Cynthia matches from an animation standpoint, but this one definitely has the hype so I'm happy overall.

Now we know Steel Beam got replaced by Bullet Punch I have mixed feelings, because I feel like Steel Beam + Reversal would have been such an underrated combination (lowering Lucario's stamina with Steel Beam to boost Reversal's damage) that we never really saw used? Plus Bullet Punch feels like generic filler - that Dragon Claw/Bullet Punch clash would've been even more hype with Reversal I think. It's not a terrible moveset though so I don't have major complaints there, just my perspective.

I don't get why people are arguing about Greninja boosting Lucario, or why Greninja is even factoring into the conversation beyond "wow Greninja cameo'd, nice"? Looked to me like it just felt Lucario and Ash's aura flare up rather than it contributing towards anything. Same with the whole "Mega Garchomp would've beaten Mega Lucario" but at least that one makes sense to theorise on (even if I think trying to predict scaling in the anime is a waste of time).

Overall, a good fight for a rather average tournament, probably the best but that's a given since it got 3 episodes to use. Here's hoping Ash vs. Leon pulls out all the stops?
 
A

AJ97

Well-Known Member
Ragnarok4 said:
Well you're right but I think greninja is still stronger considering Garchomp fell with the help of Sirfercth, also Lucario vs Charizard is a future scenario, it is not debatable
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I disagree. I would argue Mega Lucario > Mega Garchomp.
As for Greninja; considering how much it was scaled and its fairly broken mechanical; we can't really conclude how strong it is.

However, I don't think it's rational to assume Greninja > Leon's Charizard. So Lucario's performance against Leon's ace would determine how strong it is.
 
vondecayle

vondecayle

Long gone are the days
What is it with Diantha waiting for Cynthia in the hallways? haha. The friendship we didn’t know we needed lol
 
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Akkipeddi

Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
Very good battle overall, though I'd still put Paul, Sawyer and Alain above. This battle probably overtakes the Gary battle and definitely the "Kuku man" battle lol (I have issues with that. 4 episodes was too long, and I only cared for Catto vs big Catto and Koko vs Pikachu. Furthermore it's the least important battle in terms of stakes). Knew that "retirement" twist was coming from a mile away and it was dumb "shock bait".

However, while this ranks as #4 in my 6 vs 6 battles, I do have some non 6 vs 6 battles higher in my overall favorite battles like Ash vs Olympia.
 
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Ragnarok4

Ragnarok4

2024
AJ97 said:
I disagree. I would argue Mega Lucario > Mega Garchomp.
As for Greninja; considering how much it was scaled and its fairly broken mechanical; we can't really conclude how strong it is.

However, I don't think it's rational to assume Greninja > Leon's Charizard. So Lucario's performance against Leon's ace would determine how strong it is.
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In a few words it all depends on the final battle, anyway I think Ash will lose.. so it will be an unfinished debate if Pikachu + Lucario are not enough to beat charizard
 
SerGoldenhandtheJust

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Sham said:
So, what are whole thoughts in Dynamaxing VS Mega Evolution stance. Did it cost her the match or not really?
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Wont say it cost her the match just because she lost
If she didnt dynamax togekiss faints instantly and Lucario is much more at full health compared to when he faced off against Dynamax Togekiss
Meanwhile Garchomp is still damaged from the Meteor Assault and takes on Mega Lucario at full health
Compared to Lucario being significantly more damaged
So who knows if she still would have won or not
She made her gambit, dynamaxing togekiss to throw Ash off balance and finish off Ash with the boosted speed + Serene Grace and having Garchomp as a backup, didnt work but doesnt mean she would have won in the other scenario neccessairly

From a pure real life perspective though, while it would have been cooler to see a Mega vs Mega battle, Mega garchomp's design wouldnt really give us as intense fistfight climax as we got
So overall I still wonder about that particular what-if, but it doesnt take away my enjoyment nor do I feel Cynthia was nerfed in any way
Ash was the better trainer in the end
 
Ignition

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Will wait for translations before giving a proper review but this was a step down from the previous episodes. Togekiss really didn't achieve much with Dynamax to warrant not Mega Evolving Garchomp (Extreme Speed could've served a similar role to Max Airstream's Speed boosts for instance). Mega Lucario vs Garchomp felt very short and didn't wow me as much especially with how much focus they give Garchomp as the match gets closer, I'd expect more. Pacing felt like they were really pushing to make this 3 episodes imo. Not a bad episode but nowhere near things like Ash vs Paul/Kukui/Sawyer/Alain. Maybe above Ash vs Gary but that's not saying much.
 
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