SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Half the stuff you say makes zero sense sometimes, what are you even trying to say lolThe very, very impractical Reversal.
On a Lucario, no less.
Half the stuff you say makes zero sense sometimes, what are you even trying to say lolThe very, very impractical Reversal.
On a Lucario, no less.
In addition to everything you said, I found it weird how they established Togekiss has Serene Grace as an ability and then proceeded to do nothing with that. I guess the strategy of using Air Slash to flinch the opponent just didn't occur to Cynthia? They did it like once with Pikachu, and then completely ignored it for the rest of the battle. Like, Cynthia exclusively went for like Sky Attack and it's like she went out of her way to ensure Togekiss is in close proximity to Lucario instead of like trying to keep distance using Air Slash. It was so weird.With the finale of the series starting, I decided to rewatch the Masters 8 to get a fresh perspective. Not really much to say about the lackluster Steven battle, but there's a lot to say about this fight; one that was built up in Sinnoh years ago and was delivered with...mixed results.
First, Cynthia: During the first half of the battle, you really get to see why she's such a feared and respected trainer. Taking advantage of switches to disorient her opponent, using a bag of dirty tricks with Spiritomb, setting up hazards early, surprising her opponent with her Pokémon's abilities, even taking down Ash's most powerful Pokémon with a cheap Destiny Bond...the first half of the match did a great job at showing not only her Pokémon's strength, but also a tactical mind that seemed to vastly outstrip her opponent. But of course, this wasn't her fight to win, and the second half makes that clear.
After such an amazing showing, I really didn't get why she saw Ash's pure Fighting type Pokémon and didn't toss out her Fairy/Flying that would double-resist its best move. Not to mention, her Togekiss clearly had the advantage in reach, being a Special Attacker and both its typings having a clear advantage on Sirfetch'd. Instead, she first let her Milotic face an entirely avoidable defeat, then she sent out her Garchomp to get damaged for...well, no real reason except to find an excuse to Dynamax her Togekiss later on in the fight.
Speaking of Togekiss, why was this thing saved for Ash's Steel-type Pokémon? Did she forget Togekiss is a FAIRY type, as in a Pokémon who'd take super-effective damage from at least one of its moves? Plus, did she also forget that both of Lucario's non-Hidden abilities make it a bad idea to use a 'mon that causes flinches? Like hey, Shirona-san, don't you have a Lucario of your own? You should know this stuff! Using Togekiss here was a complete waste of a great Pokémon, and she realistically should've saved Garchomp for the final fight. Then again, it wouldn't make a difference because her GROUND type Dragon didn't have a single Ground move. Like...c'mon.
Anyway, on to Ash's side. Dragonite jobs pretty easily without achieving anything of note, because...of course it did. Gengar honestly did all it could, and Pikachu was Peakachu. The rat immediately stepped in and started dominating, completely destroying the Gastrodon that replaced her own trusty Lucario specifically for this match (because she forgot to put Ground type moves on her Garchomp, and this was apparently easier). It even got to demonstrate Counter Shield, and was only taken down thanks to a sneak attack from Spiritomb. The battle up until here was good and made sense, but then Dracovish shows up and everything falls apart. Much like the games, it's pure brute force with zero strategy or smart play involved; you either lose, or you just mash 'Fishious Rend' till you win. It even outright dodges the recall, yet it ends up beating Roserade and bringing Milotic in range for Sirfetch'd because...well, of course it did. All I have to say is, I really wish this thing was the one that got fodderized in the first battle rather than Dragonite; at least Ash uses Dragon Dance in some interesting ways. Anyway, after it goes down Sirfetch'd shows up and does decently well, fainting like a valiant knight. Then Lucario shows up, and it tanks hit after hit after hit because of Cynthia's poor strategizing in the last half, uses its forced 'aura dog big ball', has a fistfight with a Garchomp that has nothing to use against it, and ends up winning thanks to it.
When Ash went into shock and TR started cheering loudly, I assume they wanted the viewer to feel the same, or at least feel like Ash had some 'great victory' here. But honestly, it felt rather empty. Not only did the victory feel unearned because of how much Ash relied on Cynthia's mid-battle lobotomy, seeing him win without his Sinnoh team felt so utterly soulless. The fact that his other Pokémon, the one who should've been in that battle, were just sitting around a TV and cheering was insulting beyond belief. The whole time Lucario was fighting, I kept thinking how much cooler it would've been if Infernape was out there instead. Maybe Torterra could've redeemed itself for all its post-evolution losses. Maybe we could've seen a mid-battle evolution for Buizel.
Not to mention, this insistence on Ash using only his JN team meant Cynthia was forced to ditch her own Lucario; a Pokémon that's always shown to be on her team and is even part of her design motif. What the hell OLM?
In the end, Ash vs Cynthia was nothing special; just another battle that failed to live up to the hype.
....What? She literally does it each time she's out, doing it with Lucario as well. Lucario's ability prevented that from affectingIn addition to everything you said, I found it weird how they established Togekiss has Serene Grace as an ability and then proceeded to do nothing with that. I guess the strategy of using Air Slash to flinch the opponent just didn't occur to Cynthia? They did it like once with Pikachu, and then completely ignored it for the rest of the battle.
From what I recall, Cynthia kept spamming Sky Attack at Lucario, which was kinda dumb.....What? She literally does it each time she's out, doing it with Lucario as well. Lucario's ability prevented that from affecting
Boy if only they'd been set up early...setting up hazards early
I really have to agree. And it was not just there but the Leon fight too, and even the Drasna fight.but then Dracovish shows up and everything falls apart. Much like the games, it's pure brute force with zero strategy or smart play involved; you either lose, or you just mash 'Fishious Rend' till you win. It even outright dodges the recall, yet it ends up beating Roserade and bringing Milotic in range for Sirfetch'd because...well, of course it did. All I have to say is, I really wish this thing was the one that got fodderized in the first battle rather than Dragonite; at least Ash uses Dragon Dance in some interesting ways.
I just went and checked and Lucario flinched once and the second time he just repelled by Air Slash with Bullet Punch after which Cynthia Dynamaxes and Air Slash is never used again.....What? She literally does it each time she's out, doing it with Lucario as well. Lucario's ability prevented that from affecting
It's because her Togekiss, for some reason, was saved up for a Pokémon that had Inner Focus; an ability that prevents flinching, and just another result of her mid-battle lobotomy. This is why I think she should've tossed it out against Sirfetch'd, which aside from being weak to and resisted by Togekiss's types, has Steadfast: an ability that doesn't prevent flinching, but does increase Speed after every flinch. This could've given the battle more strategic depth, and made flinching via Serena Grace a risky tactic rather than a complete non-option.In addition to everything you said, I found it weird how they established Togekiss has Serene Grace as an ability and then proceeded to do nothing with that. I guess the strategy of using Air Slash to flinch the opponent just didn't occur to Cynthia? They did it like once with Pikachu, and then completely ignored it for the rest of the battle. Like, Cynthia exclusively went for like Sky Attack and it's like she went out of her way to ensure Togekiss is in close proximity to Lucario instead of like trying to keep distance using Air Slash. It was so weird.
Na they specifically had a scene which hyper focused on Cynthia wanting to make Lucario flinch but it didn't coz of its inner focus. Which is when she goes for the Dynamax to maximise its speed and try to make it immobileFrom what I recall, Cynthia kept spamming Sky Attack at Lucario, which was kinda dumb.
"Flinched once" the whole scene was an extended sequence hyper focusing on the "did Lucario flinch, did it" only for its inner focus to prevent thatI just went and checked and Lucario flinched once and the second time he just repelled by Air Slash with Bullet Punch after which Cynthia Dynamaxes and Air Slash is never used again.
This is such a disingenious take coz you're acting as if Cynthia is supposed to be the viewer and know everything and be a 8D chess master or somethingIt's because her Togekiss, for some reason, was saved up for a Pokémon that had Inner Focus; an ability that prevents flinching, and just another result of her mid-battle lobotomy. This is why I think she should've tossed it out against Sirfetch'd, which aside from being weak to and resisted by Togekiss's types, has Steadfast: an ability that doesn't prevent flinching, but does increase Speed after every flinch. This could've given the battle more strategic depth, and made flinching via Serena Grace a risky tactic rather than a complete non-option.
With the finale of the series starting, I decided to rewatch the Masters 8 to get a fresh perspective. Not really much to say about the lackluster Steven battle, but there's a lot to say about this fight; one that was built up in Sinnoh years ago and was delivered with...mixed results.
First, Cynthia: During the first half of the battle, you really get to see why she's such a feared and respected trainer. Taking advantage of switches to disorient her opponent, using a bag of dirty tricks with Spiritomb, setting up hazards early, surprising her opponent with her Pokémon's abilities, even taking down Ash's most powerful Pokémon with a cheap Destiny Bond...the first half of the match did a great job at showing not only her Pokémon's strength, but also a tactical mind that seemed to vastly outstrip her opponent. But of course, this wasn't her fight to win, and the second half makes that clear.
After such an amazing showing, I really didn't get why she saw Ash's pure Fighting type Pokémon and didn't toss out her Fairy/Flying that would double-resist its best move. Not to mention, her Togekiss clearly had the advantage in reach, being a Special Attacker and both its typings having a clear advantage on Sirfetch'd. Instead, she first let her Milotic face an entirely avoidable defeat, then she sent out her Garchomp to get damaged for...well, no real reason except to find an excuse to Dynamax her Togekiss later on in the fight.
Speaking of Togekiss, why was this thing saved for Ash's Steel-type Pokémon? Did she forget Togekiss is a FAIRY type, as in a Pokémon who'd take super-effective damage from at least one of its moves? Plus, did she also forget that both of Lucario's non-Hidden abilities make it a bad idea to use a 'mon that causes flinches? Like hey, Shirona-san, don't you have a Lucario of your own? You should know this stuff! Using Togekiss here was a complete waste of a great Pokémon, and she realistically should've saved Garchomp for the final fight. Then again, it wouldn't make a difference because her GROUND type Dragon didn't have a single Ground move. Like...c'mon.
Anyway, on to Ash's side. Dragonite jobs pretty easily without achieving anything of note, because...of course it did. Gengar honestly did all it could, and Pikachu was Peakachu. The rat immediately stepped in and started dominating, completely destroying the Gastrodon that replaced her own trusty Lucario specifically for this match (because she forgot to put Ground type moves on her Garchomp, and this was apparently easier). It even got to demonstrate Counter Shield, and was only taken down thanks to a sneak attack from Spiritomb. The battle up until here was good and made sense, but then Dracovish shows up and everything falls apart. Much like the games, it's pure brute force with zero strategy or smart play involved; you either lose, or you just mash 'Fishious Rend' till you win. It even outright dodges the recall, yet it ends up beating Roserade and bringing Milotic in range for Sirfetch'd because...well, of course it did. All I have to say is, I really wish this thing was the one that got fodderized in the first battle rather than Dragonite; at least Ash uses Dragon Dance in some interesting ways. Anyway, after it goes down Sirfetch'd shows up and does decently well, fainting like a valiant knight. Then Lucario shows up, and it tanks hit after hit after hit because of Cynthia's poor strategizing in the last half, uses its forced 'aura dog big ball', has a fistfight with a Garchomp that has nothing to use against it, and ends up winning thanks to it.
When Ash went into shock and TR started cheering loudly, I assume they wanted the viewer to feel the same, or at least feel like Ash had some 'great victory' here. But honestly, it felt rather empty. Not only did the victory feel unearned because of how much Ash relied on Cynthia's mid-battle lobotomy, seeing him win without his Sinnoh team felt so utterly soulless. The fact that his other Pokémon, the one who should've been in that battle, were just sitting around a TV and cheering was insulting beyond belief. The whole time Lucario was fighting, I kept thinking how much cooler it would've been if Infernape was out there instead. Maybe Torterra could've redeemed itself for all its post-evolution losses. Maybe we could've seen a mid-battle evolution for Buizel.
Not to mention, this insistence on Ash using only his JN team meant Cynthia was forced to ditch her own Lucario; a Pokémon that's always shown to be on her team and is even part of her design motif. What the hell OLM?
In the end, Ash vs Cynthia was nothing special; just another battle that failed to live up to the hype.
Makes one wonder why the hell this Cynthia has those Lucario decs on her head anyway, right.Like hey, Shirona-san, don't you have a Lucario of your own?
With the finale of the series starting, I decided to rewatch the Masters 8 to get a fresh perspective. Not really much to say about the lackluster Steven battle, but there's a lot to say about this fight; one that was built up in Sinnoh years ago and was delivered with...mixed results.
First, Cynthia: During the first half of the battle, you really get to see why she's such a feared and respected trainer. Taking advantage of switches to disorient her opponent, using a bag of dirty tricks with Spiritomb, setting up hazards early, surprising her opponent with her Pokémon's abilities, even taking down Ash's most powerful Pokémon with a cheap Destiny Bond...the first half of the match did a great job at showing not only her Pokémon's strength, but also a tactical mind that seemed to vastly outstrip her opponent. But of course, this wasn't her fight to win, and the second half makes that clear.
After such an amazing showing, I really didn't get why she saw Ash's pure Fighting type Pokémon and didn't toss out her Fairy/Flying that would double-resist its best move. Not to mention, her Togekiss clearly had the advantage in reach, being a Special Attacker and both its typings having a clear advantage on Sirfetch'd. Instead, she first let her Milotic face an entirely avoidable defeat, then she sent out her Garchomp to get damaged for...well, no real reason except to find an excuse to Dynamax her Togekiss later on in the fight.
Speaking of Togekiss, why was this thing saved for Ash's Steel-type Pokémon? Did she forget Togekiss is a FAIRY type, as in a Pokémon who'd take super-effective damage from at least one of its moves? Plus, did she also forget that both of Lucario's non-Hidden abilities make it a bad idea to use a 'mon that causes flinches? Like hey, Shirona-san, don't you have a Lucario of your own? You should know this stuff! Using Togekiss here was a complete waste of a great Pokémon, and she realistically should've saved Garchomp for the final fight. Then again, it wouldn't make a difference because her GROUND type Dragon didn't have a single Ground move. Like...c'mon.
Anyway, on to Ash's side. Dragonite jobs pretty easily without achieving anything of note, because...of course it did. Gengar honestly did all it could, and Pikachu was Peakachu. The rat immediately stepped in and started dominating, completely destroying the Gastrodon that replaced her own trusty Lucario specifically for this match (because she forgot to put Ground type moves on her Garchomp, and this was apparently easier). It even got to demonstrate Counter Shield, and was only taken down thanks to a sneak attack from Spiritomb. The battle up until here was good and made sense, but then Dracovish shows up and everything falls apart. Much like the games, it's pure brute force with zero strategy or smart play involved; you either lose, or you just mash 'Fishious Rend' till you win. It even outright dodges the recall, yet it ends up beating Roserade and bringing Milotic in range for Sirfetch'd because...well, of course it did. All I have to say is, I really wish this thing was the one that got fodderized in the first battle rather than Dragonite; at least Ash uses Dragon Dance in some interesting ways. Anyway, after it goes down Sirfetch'd shows up and does decently well, fainting like a valiant knight. Then Lucario shows up, and it tanks hit after hit after hit because of Cynthia's poor strategizing in the last half, uses its forced 'aura dog big ball', has a fistfight with a Garchomp that has nothing to use against it, and ends up winning thanks to it.
When Ash went into shock and TR started cheering loudly, I assume they wanted the viewer to feel the same, or at least feel like Ash had some 'great victory' here. But honestly, it felt rather empty. Not only did the victory feel unearned because of how much Ash relied on Cynthia's mid-battle lobotomy, seeing him win without his Sinnoh team felt so utterly soulless. The fact that his other Pokémon, the one who should've been in that battle, were just sitting around a TV and cheering was insulting beyond belief. The whole time Lucario was fighting, I kept thinking how much cooler it would've been if Infernape was out there instead. Maybe Torterra could've redeemed itself for all its post-evolution losses. Maybe we could've seen a mid-battle evolution for Buizel.
Not to mention, this insistence on Ash using only his JN team meant Cynthia was forced to ditch her own Lucario; a Pokémon that's always shown to be on her team and is even part of her design motif. What the hell OLM?
In the end, Ash vs Cynthia was nothing special; just another battle that failed to live up to the hype.
It's especially worse given the fact that she was shown to be tactical and ruthless in part 1, so the sudden IQ drop from part 2 onwards was even more glaring.Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Cynthia's IQ drop makes this battle almost unrewatchable.
She should know what ability a Lucario would have, since both of its main abilities are directly related to flinching, and she is a Lucario trainer herself. In fact, her own BDSP Lucario has Inner Focus, the same ability as Ash's Lucario.This is such a disingenious take coz you're acting as if Cynthia is supposed to be the viewer and know everything and be a 8D chess master or something
I already stated why she should know that Lucario would either resist flinching or would benefit from it, since both of its abilities are directly related to it and she's a Lucario user herself. Also, she should've known that Sirfetch'd would be able to damage Garchomp because it's not immune to Fighting type moves. Sirfetch'd is not an Electric type!How is Cynthia supposed to know Lucario will have inner focus and resist Togekiss's flinching, or that Garchomp will be able to be damaged by Sirfetchd and all.
It's as if you're assuming she has hindsight and should calculate her decisions better
Her bringing in a Milotic is still an obviously weird decision when she had a Serene Grace Togekiss sitting in the wings, with Fairy and Flying moves in its arsenal and no other Pokémon remaining in the back where it'd be a better idea to use it.Milotic has fairy moves and has proven to be able to wrap around dragons and destroy them, which is what she does with Dracovish and tried to do with Sirfetchd
If she saw Sirfetch’d as ‘formidable’, why not respond with a Pokémon that resists the Pokémon’s STAB twice-over and has super-effective STAB against it? What sort of ‘strategy’ dictates bringing out her ace early when you already have a Pokémon that acts as the perfect counter? She doesn’t need to have ‘hindsight’ or fortune-telling capabilities; just basic knowledge of the type chart.And again, Garchomp has proven to be a beast and someone she can rely on. She saw Sirfetchd as formidable and decided to take it out quickly. Why is that any less valid than deciding to go for Togekiss when again, she isn't supposed to have hindsight or predict literally everyone about Ashs mons and their potential
Oh shut up Scott. On the ‘Ignore’ list you go.snip
I'm sorry but people keep saying how we should NEVER conflate the game logic with anime's logic, so why is it we pick and choose when we do it?She should know what ability a Lucario would have, since both of its main abilities are directly related to flinching, and she is a Lucario trainer herself. In fact, her own BDSP Lucario has Inner Focus, the same ability as Ash's Lucario.
I already stated why she should know that Lucario would either resist flinching or would benefit from it, since both of its abilities are directly related to it and she's a Lucario user herself. Also, she should've known that Sirfetch'd would be able to damage Garchomp because it's not immune to Fighting type moves. Sirfetch'd is not an Electric type!
Her bringing in a Milotic is still an obviously weird decision when she had a Serene Grace Togekiss sitting in the wings, with Fairy and Flying moves in its arsenal and no other Pokémon remaining in the back where it'd be a better idea to use it.
If she saw Sirfetch’d as ‘formidable’, why not respond with a Pokémon that resists the Pokémon’s STAB twice-over and has super-effective STAB against it? What sort of ‘strategy’ dictates bringing out her ace early when you already have a Pokémon that acts as the perfect counter? She doesn’t need to have ‘hindsight’ or fortune-telling capabilities; just basic knowledge of the type chart.
Oh shut up Scott. On the ‘Ignore’ list you go.