The Speed Game: A List Of Important Speed Points

[Blue Ace]

I have decided to make a comprehensive list of important speed points that are needed to outspeed certain threats, basically going slightly more in-depth on Danbaru’s Speed Boundary Guide. This list is simply for reference’s sake for when one is looking to invest EVs into speed and does not know how much they will need or want, without needlessly wasting them. It is also up to date for the current Platinum Metagame and is easier to understand and navigate through than Smogon's.

Each point listed is the EVs necessary to outspeed said threat by 1 point. By “+ Max” it refers to the Pokémon’s speed stat with a +Spd Nature and maximum EVs and IVs. “Neutral Max” refers to a Pokémon’s speed stat with any other nature with maximum EVs and IVs.


This list contains information for the Overused metagame only at this point.




1) This Speed Zone is generally for those looking to get the most out of their Agilities/ Dragon Dances/ Choice Scarf and are important to aim for.
505 - Deoxys-e (+Max)
494 – Azelf (Neutral Max/ Choice Scarf)
479 – Gengar (Neutral Max/ Choice Scarf)
419 - Porygonz (Neutral Max/ Choice Scarf)
406 - Salamence (Neutral 136 EVs/ Dragon Dance)
404 – Heracross (Neutral Max/ Choice Scarf)

Anything that reaches lower than 404, should conform to reach a stat 395 instead for outspeeding tte next fastest threat on the list.



2) This Speed Zone contains all Pokemon with Base stats above 100 to Base 130, again usually for the sake of outspeeding the next fastest threat or for getting the most out of your Speed stat ups or Choice Scarf.

395 – Base 130’s (+Max)
389 – Skymin (+Max)
384 – Weavile (+Max)
381 - Heatran (Neutral Max/ Choice Scarf)
373 – Dugtrio (+Max)
362 – Base 115’s (+Max)
351 – Gengar (+Max)
347 – Infernape (+Max)
340 – Dugtrio (Neutral Max)

Base 105’s fall under the same category as Dugtrio, and are seldom used really, they should be more concerned with reaching a stat of 300 for outspeeding the next used threat.




3) This Speed Zone contains Pokemon with Base stats varying from Base 70 to Base 100, it contains sweepers as well.

300 – Base 100’s (Neutral Max)
296 – Heracross (+Max)
285 – Mamoswine (+Max)
280 – Lucario (Neutral Max)
270 – Heracross (Neutral Max)
263 – Breloom (+Max)
260 – Mamoswine (Neutral Max)
254 – Heatran (Neutral Max)
244 – Tyranitar (+Max)
240 – Breloom (Neutral Max)



4) Lastly this Speed Zone is for slower pokemon such as walls and tanks who do not concern themselves with Speed so much, however it is sometimes crucial for them to outspeed others on here in order to prevent them from attacking, or allowing them to recover or set up.

228 – Gliscor (Neutral 4 EVs)
207 – Cresselia, Suicune (Neutral)
199 – Milotic (Neutral)
179 – Magnezone (Neutral 84 EVs)
178 – Skarmory (Neutral 4 EVs)
160 – Tyranitar (Neutral 4 EVs)
157 – Swampert (Neutral)
147 – Blissey (Neutral)

As you can see at this point these Pokemon do not run any or very little Spd EVs, anything that is slower should not invest in any whatsoever.




* An important note for those EVing fast and rather frail sweepers:

If you plan to only EV to outspeed what you need to and invest the rest into HP, it is ususally preferable that the EVs stick to a simple 252 S.Atk/Atk and 252 Spd as the HP will not make a significant difference in the amount of damage that it will take if their Base Hp and Defenses are low (lower than 70). However if the extra EVs where to go in another stat such as the other Attack for mixed sweepers, for example, then feel free to do so.


Other than that there's not much to it, very simple for the general population to understand.




Special thanks to Misaki-chi for looking up some statistics on current usage of EVs for certain Pokemon and Somebody for double checking some stats

 

[newbioform]

For tier 1, I think stuff like +max/CS Azelf and Gengar should be there, along with neutral max/CS Shaymin-S. They might not look like much from the stats on Smogon, but that's because Platinum is only been implemented for a few days.

 

[Blue Ace]

For tier 1, I think stuff like +max/CS Azelf and Gengar should be there, along with neutral max/CS Shaymin-S. They might not look like much from the stats on Smogon, but that's because Platinum is only been implemented for a few days.

That really is incredible overkill at that point. Anything that is faster than Neutral Max Azelf should just EV to beat it, as it is a common Choice Scarfer. Also Choice Scarfing Skymin seems like a pretty bad choice really, but I'll look into its usage statistics to see whether it is common enough to even mention it.

 

[Atoyont]

What about 505, enough to outspeed Speed Deoxys?
I'm aware that it could be banned soon, but in the mean time it may be reasonable to mention it.

 

[Blue Ace]

What about 505, enough to outspeed Speed Deoxys?
I'm aware that it could be banned soon, but in the mean time it may be reasonable to mention it.

No one runs absolute Max Speed Deoxys though, outside of Neutral Natured ones with Choice Specs.

Besides at that point Pokemon will have to run a + Nature with Max to outspeed something that is extremely rare, wasting EVs and power in the process. Again it would be wise for a Deoxys to just EV to beat Scarf Azelf or Scarf Gengar instead, making the most out of its EVs since it is quite bulky for the average sweeper and is a Mixed attacker.

 

[Deboog]

Omg, this is really helpfull, but... where is ninjask and deoxys. They could go in lvl 1 without a choice scarf. I would add heatran with a choice scarf to the 1 group, and salamence before and after a dd to the 3 and 1 groups as he is much more scary now with outrage. And about the comment about deaoxys-s, he is still run without max speed and can still be a threat, outrunning choice scarfers. I would add him.

 

[Sudo]

Very good, however, I feel a few things should be added:

Timid Heatran under the Scarf section (417 speed)

Timid Scarf Porygon-Z (459 speed)

307 speed to outrun positive base 90s

 

[Somebody]

just some minor errors, but you have heracross under 270 speed as +max, it should be neutral. also, you need 404 speed to outspeed adamant scarfcross, and only 494 to outspeed neutral scarf azelf.

 

[Blue Ace]

Omg, this is really helpfull, but... where is ninjask and deoxys.

Ninjask has Speed Boost and sometimes Protect, there's no point in adding it. Deoxys current EV spread is for outspeed ScarfChomp, few people have caught on to this and are still using the standard, besides by outspeeding ScarfGar you outspeed Deoxys.

I would add heatran with a choice scarf to the 1 group, and salamence before and after a dd to the 3 and 1 groups as he is much more scary now with outrage.

Again there's little point to adding pokes with stat ups under their belt, standard DD Mence runs enough EVs to outspeed Lucario before a DD, which is where it sits at 280.

And about the comment about deaoxys-s, he is still run without max speed and can still be a threat, outrunning choice scarfers. I would add him.

See above

Very good, however, I feel a few things should be added:

Timid Heatran under the Scarf section (417 speed)

Timid Scarf Porygon-Z (459 speed)

307 speed to outrun positive base 90s

Timid Scarfers are a rather bad trend, running max on top of it is an example of bad EV investment as well. They should just concern themselves with outspeeding Base 130's and/or Scarf Heracross, running Max Spd is unnecessary, it's bad enough that their special attack were lowered with Timid, why ruin their bulkiness as well, seeing as both are fairly bulky to begin with.

Same goes for + Spd Base 90's, they should concern themselves with only outspeeding the Neutral Base 100's with Max Spd. As they are wasting 28 EVs needlessly for a 50/50 chance to outspeed something that is very seldom ever used.

However I am adding Modest Scarf PZ with Max Spd as it is common and I overlooked it.

just some minor errors, but you have heracross under 270 speed as +max, it should be neutral. also, you need 404 speed to outspeed adamant scarfcross, and only 494 to outspeed neutral scarf azelf.

Thank you, editing that now.

 

[Bizziler]

I don't see how using +Spe Scarfers and max speed Deoxys-S is a 'bad trend'; as so many people do actually run max speed Deoxys, particularly on Taunt/set up leads, beating it is very, very useful. Timid Scarf Heatran is incredibly popular, if only as insurance against Sky Shaymin, and so should be mentioned. As should Modest imo. Beating +1 base 100's is very useful too, seeing as Scarf Salamence w/ Outrage is becoming pretty popular now Garchomp's uber, and of course beating a Dragon Danced Salamence is always useful too.

 

[Blue Ace]

I don't see how using +Spe Scarfers and max speed Deoxys-S is a 'bad trend'; as so many people do actually run max speed Deoxys, particularly on Taunt/set up leads, beating it is very, very useful. Timid Scarf Heatran is incredibly popular, if only as insurance against Sky Shaymin, and so should be mentioned. As should Modest imo. Beating +1 base 100's is very useful too, seeing as Scarf Salamence w/ Outrage is becoming pretty popular now Garchomp's uber, and of course beating a Dragon Danced Salamence is always useful too.

Thank you for your input Bizziler, it's very welcomed and apprecaited.

Using +Speed Scarfers with Max speed what what I was getting at mostly, in my personal opinion a bad trend. I should word my sentences more clearly.

For Example Timid Heatran with Max reaches a maximum of 417, outspeeding nothing bar Heracross, and by an excess of 13 points. Timid Scarf Porygon Z, only outspeed Mence after a DD and by an excess of 39 points, those EVs can be put to better use quite frankly, instead of wasting them for a 50/50 chance of outspeeding others that will most likely not be running it, at that point, you should just use a counter as their offensive capabilities have been notably hindered.


Fair enough argument though on the Deoxys-e support sets, will add that and Modest Scarf Heatran and standard Salamence after a DD.

 

[Rad3n]

I feel that (neutral 0 speed) SS Kingdra deserves a mention with the advent of platinum. Dismiss me if you will.

Cheers for the useful guide which as usual, shows how misplaced speed evs usually are.

 

[rippersteveM5]

406 Spe is required to outrun standard DD Mence (Neutral Nature 136 EVs) after one DD in case you were wondering ~ Zone 1

405 Spe is required to outrun standard Agiligross after an agility ~ Zone 1

290 Spe outruns 252 neutral nature Yanmega, Gliscor and Electivire (Base 95) ~ Zone 3

237 Spe outruns 0 speed Zapdos, Celebi, and Jirachi (Base 100) ~ Zone 4

You might not want to use the Agiligross one, but it's there if you need it.

 

[kinder surprise]

396 Spe is one to list seeing as other scarfers will be going for 395 for the same reasons u pointed out.

291 for yanmega after speed boost, Scarphlosion.

 

[rippersteveM5]

291 for yanmega after speed boost, Scarphlosion.

Only 290 is required to outrun neutral 252 Yanmega before Speed Boost, 434 outruns after the Speed boost. Also outruns neutral 252 Electivire with a Motor Drive Boost.

Scarfphlosion runs 112 Spe EVs (396 Spe) to outpace Base 130's. The most you will probably ever see it run is 136 EVs, enough to outrun Adamant ScarfCross.

EDIT: Vote for Sticky, we really need something like this on the forum for people who don't have a clue about EVs (which lately, has been a lot)

 

[Rad3n]

Someone should add it to Danburu's's thread on maxing the speed ev distribution efficiency.

Ps: I'm aware It would be Danburu's'

 

[johnXkid]

Very nice guide.

 

[Annhialator Zero]

While I think this is seriously good work, there is one major problem:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23432

=/

 

[Rad3n]

Oh Snap. Well. It feels good to have our own.

 

[Frost Nova]

While I think this is seriously good work, there is one major problem:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23432

=/

We were talking about it the other day on whether he should be making one seeing that thread is already in existence: think of this as a simplified version for SPPfers.