The strongest team of 6 Ash has used in battle

[BabaVanga]

My point still stands how does that make Tapu Koko or SM Pikachu as strong or stronger than Alain's Mega Charizard?

We can't compare their strength if they never battled.
Usually people just assumed all strongest trainers or strongest Legendary Pokémon in all regions are more or less on similar level but they refuse to do so for Alola.

 

[Epicocity]

We can't compare their strength if they never battled.
Usually people just assumed all strongest trainers or strongest Legendary Pokémon in all regions are more or less on similar level but they refuse to do so for Alola.

I think for some people it's that it comes down to the fact Alain's Charizard both 1) put up an even fight with a Champion's ace and 2) survived numerous direct hits from literal world-ending Legendaries. Conversely, Tapu Koko doesn't really have much in this universe to show its level of strength so all we have are baseless assumptions. Unfortunately, when it comes to direct experience and scaling (which, admittedly, Pokemon is kind of messy to begin with), SM is impossible to scale because of the inane decision to have so few actually completed battles and only 6 of those have multiple characters using more than one Pokemon in said battle. It doesn't help when it's the only series except for maybe BW to have one of Ash's Pokemon literally partake in just one battle.

But yeah, just being Legendary alone isn't enough, otherwise more people would be praising Noivern for the Zapdos "feat" (which even as an XY fan isn't considered a feat to me).

 

[BabaVanga]

But yeah, just being Legendary alone isn't enough, otherwise more people would be praising Noivern for the Zapdos "feat" (which even as an XY fan isn't considered a feat to me).

I might be biased because it's my favourite non-Team Flare XYZ episode (along with Master Class Choices), but even if that Zapdos wasn't as strong as people would generally expect from the species, I think Noivern's battle was quite impressive and it just didn't perform that well in other battles because of opponents' strength and not its own weakness.

 

[CMButch]

Despite Base TK being strong, he doesn't measure to MCX. But yeah, TK Z move would probably beat MCX.SM Base Pikachu is > Base TK but still weaker than MCX and A-G. Same with TK's Z move: 10MV would probably beat MCX though.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

I might be biased because it's my favourite non-Team Flare XYZ episode (along with Master Class Choices), but even if that Zapdos wasn't as strong as people would generally expect from the species, I think Noivern's battle was quite impressive and it just didn't perform that well in other battles because of opponents' strength and not its own weakness.

It was combo of both noivern's skillfull use of terrain plus ash adapting to his surroundings, even if noivern took zapdos by surprise it was indeed impressive, i thought noivern would be the glalie of this series but oh well.

 

[345ash-greninja]

With 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt Pikachu is individually stronger than any other Pokemon of Ash's, but with Ash-Greninja + Kalos League Pikachu factored in, Ash's XY team vs Alain edges out Ash's Alola team vs Kukui IMO.

Ash's team vs Tobias is also a close contender here.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Alola Team because this is the only team where all Ash's Pokémon actually did a good job during the respective series. Even the weakest Pokémon (probably Naganadel) did a better job during his only battle EP than at least 1 Pokémon in average during their respective series.

 

[dman_dustin]

Ash's team when he faced Paul was his strongest. I dunno why his Alola exhibition match team is winning the poll when Melmetal and Naganadel barely participated in battles and only had a few wins between them through the whole series...

I'm almost positive, Kukui is stronger than Paul, at least a tier. Maybe Paul is a lot stronger, but I just cannot imagine any of Paul's Pokemon being able to take out Kukui's Incineroar, unless its a team effort, and even then, Kukui's rest of his Pokemon are also pretty strong as well.

Kukui has to be more balanced of a trainer than even Alain. Don't get me wrong Alain's Mega Charizard would take out Kukui's Incineroar just fine and dandy. But Kukui's team for whatever reason feels like they would be strong whereas the feeling you get from Alain is that he magically caught these Pokemon to have a full team. With the exception of Metagross/Tyranitar/Charizard, I do think Kukui's Pokemon are just more balanced.

I'm sure Alain could beat Kukui BUT I don't think it would be easy and would likely heavily rely on Mega Charizard.

Alain however I could easily see taking down Paul much easier. Alain was really just a beast with Mega Charizard.

As for me I'm mixed. I don't think any team can say their the strongest. I mean in DP Ash beat Paul but lost to Tobias, in the XY Ash beat Sawyer but lost to Alain, and then in SM Ash beat Gladion as well as Kukui who at the time should've been easily regarded as the strongest Alolan trainer, which definitely shouldn't be underestimated.

With the right combination you can create the ultimate team using Ash's DP, XY and SM battle:

Pikachu
Ash-Greninja
Infernape
Incineroar
Naganadel/Melmetal (depending on which one is stronger)
Rowlet (Due to Braviary/Decidueye), Gliscor (Gliscor may lose but it won't lose easily, Gliscor is that durable), Noivern (would be Hawlucha, but I think Noivern would be able to fare better as it tied to a Salamence of all things and lost to 4x weakness, whereas Hawlucha is a fighting type, conflicting with Infernape, losing to Slaking and 4x destroying Weavile but wasn't easy and lost to Bisharp, whereas Goodra sucks because it tied with Slurpuff and outright lost to Bisharp illegally using Guillotine),

Which ever one you want, personally I'd probably go with Nagandel and Melmetal, because I think they would make more sense than Rowlet/Gliscor/Noivern, but I wanted to try and at least balance out the gens a bit more, hence the Noivern/Gliscor.

I want to say Paul was the weakest victory for Ash, don't confuse that with the quality of the battle, it was definitely better slightly than Ash vs Alain. Alain was just a superior trainer. And Kukui had the benefit of both.

I'd say Ash's Alola team would be strongest because it was that balanced against Kukui's balanced team. Paul was balanced, but he also just suddenly used 5 different Pokemon against Ash with the exception of Electivire so its hard to say Paul was at full strength, and Ash barely won that battle. His Kalos league Pokemon were much stronger with the benefit of Ash-Greninja which literally has to be Ash's strongest Pokemon right behind Pikachu with its exclusive Z-move. But then we have Kukui the strongest Alola trainer, the Pokemon trainer with the most balanced strong team, and Ash still came out on top. And outside of Lycanroc losing to Braviary, Ash still won that far more balanced than either Paul (where Infernape took out 3 Pokemon) and Alain where he lost.

So balance wise definitely his Alolan team. Pokemon as individuals not counting Pikachu Infernape was definitely stronger than DP Pikachu at least in that battle and Ash-Greninja was most definitely Ash's strongest 6th generation Pokemon. Whereas Ash's 7th generation team was so balanced, that outside of Pikachu there really isn't anyone standing out that compares to Infernape/Greninja except Pikachu. Incineroar comes close having defeated Venusaur and Incineroar AS a Torracat, keeping in mind Incineroar WAS Kukui's strongest Pokemon. So I can see Incineroar theoretically at its peak being Ash's strongest 7th generation Pokemon, but I don't know his Alolan team is just so balanced its hard to rank them power wise.

After all Rowlet defeated Decidueye and Braviary.
Lycanroc while it lost to Braviary, it did beat Gladion's Lycanroc for the win, though that wasn't necessarily his strongest Pokemon.
Naganadel beat Lucario and did very well against Tapu Koko before losing.
Melmetal did very well against Silvally (which should be Gladion's strongest Pokemon), and ended up knocking out Kukui's Empoleon even when Ash's Pikachu didn't do anything.

I just can't rate their strength because they just didn't battle very much.

 

[nickdt]

His strongest team was his OI team, since we shouldn't forget: Drake cheated and even then Ash was able to take him down.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

I'm almost positive, Kukui is stronger than Paul, at least a tier. Maybe Paul is a lot stronger, but I just cannot imagine any of Paul's Pokemon being able to take out Kukui's Incineroar, unless its a team effort, and even then, Kukui's rest of his Pokemon are also pretty strong as well.

So do you have Kukui placed at a tier with Tobias and Alain?

What has his Incineroar done to place it above Paul's Torterra,Electivire,Drapion and Ursaring?

I'm sure the rest of his team is strong but Paul's other pokemon that he used in DP are strong as well.

-Magmortar
-Honchkrow
-Nidoking
-Hariyama
-Gliscor

Paul was balanced, but he also just suddenly used 5 different Pokemon against Ash with the exception of Electivire so its hard to say Paul was at full strength

He wasn't at full strength his two heavy hitters were Electivire/Drapion,the rest of his team were used to scout and wear down Ash's team.But despite all of that Paul almost beat him up until Infernape interrupted the referee from declaring it unable to battle and activated Blaze at the last minute.For as long as it was on the ground after Electivire hit it with Thunder it should've been immediately declared unable to battle making Paul the victor.

 

[CMButch]

I'm almost positive, Kukui is stronger than Paul, at least a tier. Maybe Paul is a lot stronger, but I just cannot imagine any of Paul's Pokemon being able to take out Kukui's Incineroar, unless its a team effort, and even then, Kukui's rest of his Pokemon are also pretty strong as well.

No. Paul > Kukui. Kukui doesn't have TK, thus he's weaker than Paul and wrong on no Paul's Pokemon can take out Incineroar. Electivire can. Electivire is on par with DP Peakachu who > BF Peakachu who took Regice who is at least mid FB level. Electivire takes out Incineroar.But if Incine uses Z move( DL) then it takes out Electivire.

 

[dman_dustin]

So do you have Kukui placed at a tier with Tobias and Alain?

Tobias is hard to place when compared to Alain, but I think technically by default Tobias would have to come out on top. I mean Tobias would have to prove that he's a league of his own. I mean Ash only took out two. If Mega Charizard was strong enough to take out Darkrai and Latios, I just can't imagine Alain would be able to take out Tobias's other Pokemon. I imagine Darkrai and Latios losing to Mega Charizard simply because that's how strong Tobias was shown to be and that feels right, but the 4 other Pokemon Tobias is just unknown, his other Pokemon just weren't that strong as Bisharp literally had to use Guillotine for a cheap win against Goodra.

So Tobias by default has to be stronger than Alain if they were going to have a full battle that is. I'd technically place Kukui after Alain.

Tobias > Alain > Kukui > Paul

What has his Incineroar done to place it above Paul's Torterra,Electivire,Drapion and Ursaring?

I'm sure the rest of his team is strong but Paul's other pokemon that he used in DP are strong as well.

-Magmortar
-Honchkrow
-Nidoking
-Hariyama
-Gliscor

Look at it this way, Infernape still took out 3 of Paul's Pokemon and Ash ultimately struggled to defeat Paul, whereas Ash got sweeped by Tobias largely.

Compare that to Ash struggling against Sawyer and winning, struggling against Alain and ended up losing.

And doing very well ultimately against Kukui. I don't think that's because Kukui was weak, whereas Paul for example was strong. Remember again, Kukui at this point was the strongest Alolan Pokemon trainer.

I'm pretty sure the implication was Kukui was largely unbeaten especially with being Masked Royal.

Braviary beat Lycanroc
Ash's Pikachu was not faring very well against Empoleon and likely could've lost if Ash didn't switch out
Venusaur destroyed Rowlet by trapping him.
Lucario the weakest link lost to Naganadel, so that's a point against him.
Incineroar easily knocked out Melmetal even though I don't think merely being super effective justifies Melmetal losing THAT badly.

Sure Kukui didn't use his last Pokemon and it was Tapu Koko instead, so maybe Kukui suffers that, but even so Kukui still didn't do that bad. Like I said before, I doubt Gladion could've been able to defeat Kukui the way Ash did.

But compare that to Paul who was MORE than willing to sacrifice Pokemon just to scout Pokemon which is always a pathetic excuse.

See even though Kukui has his strongest ace in Incineroar, Kukui's team still proves his Pokemon are far more balanced than Paul or even Alain.

Ninjask loses to Infernape while doing heavy damage to Gliscor
Drapion beats Staraptor, Torterra, Buizel before losing to Gliscor
Electivire beats Gliscor/Pikachu and loses to Infernape after blaze powerful to be sure.
Aggron loses to Infernape
Froslass loses to Pikachu
Gastrodon loses to Buizel.

And Ash still struggled to win that battle.

This was Ash's most imbalanced win of any of his rivals, and yet somehow his DP team is stronger than his Alolan team? What?

And I have to assume that Paul is so strong even thought right after Ash gets swept by Tobias. And I'm supposed to rank Kukui lower than Paul just because Ash's team did better in that battle. I'm sorry that ONLY makes sense if Ash is at the same power level which we CANNOT assume.

He wasn't at full strength his two heavy hitters were Electivire/Drapion,the rest of his team were used to scout and wear down Ash's team.But despite all of that Paul almost beat him up until Infernape interrupted the referee from declaring it unable to battle and activated Blaze at the last minute.For as long as it was on the ground after Electivire hit it with Thunder it should've been immediately declared unable to battle making Paul the victor.

That doesn't make Paul strong necessarily as it may show Ash's DP team just wasn't as strong as his Alolan team. Especially since Paul was curbstomped by Brandon and didn't do anything. Let alone even against Cynthia. I don't think Kukui would've struggled as much against Brandon as Paul did.

No. Paul > Kukui. Kukui doesn't have TK, thus he's weaker than Paul and wrong on no Paul's Pokemon can take out Incineroar. Electivire can. Electivire is on par with DP Peakachu who > BF Peakachu who took Regice who is at least mid FB level. Electivire takes out Incineroar.But if Incine uses Z move( DL) then it takes out Electivire.

And even then still. Ash barely beat Paul, got curbstomped by Tobias, Paul has a highly imbalanced team which should've made it easier.

And yet somehow for whatever reason people think his DP team is stronger than his Alolan team just because Ash did better against Kukui.

I don't think Paul would've done better against Tobias than Ash, on top of Paul being curbstomped by Cynthia/Brandon while also curbstomping Ash in their full battle. Paul was strong or rather had strong individual Pokemon but I don't think the right assumption is to undervalue Alola's strongest trainer (Kukui) just because he sucked against Ash at his full strength.

Incineroar was implied to be unbeatable or largely undefeated, it's why Masked Royal was so popular. I don't believe Paul's Torterra or even Electivire could beat Incineroar, and don't think I don't see the undervaluing of Incineroar just because Torracat beat it.

I don't know why the default assumption is that the trainer is weak because a pre-evolution beat its evolution using its tricks against it as opposed to believing the trainer using the pre-evolution just didn't train his Pokemon to that elite level.

I get it, you want to undervalue or underplay all of the Alola region. Kukui was the strongest simply because he had no competition. But may I remind you of how brutal Guzma was. He defeated Ilmia, who could not be considered a pushover especially since he had mega evolution and was going to other Pokemon regions for their Pokemon leagues, and his normal Scizor outright beats Ilmia by pure cruel strategy. And then against Lana, Primarina didn't do anything against Golisopod, Primarina was always going to lose. Then you have Ash vs Guzma where Ash did manage to make it out on top.

I don't think that's just because Guzma was weak, maybe we should give credit to Ash's Pokemon instead. Instead of sweeping it under the rug by "Alola league means automatic wins to Ash because they are weak by default"

In other words, Ash losing Pokemon to Paul has to show how weak his DP team is, I think Ash having a really balanced win against Kukui has to be a sign that Alola Ash is stronger than DP Ash by far. Ash struggled badly and still ultimately beat Paul thanks to Infernape in a battle that I can agree could've gone to Paul though I disagree that the referee should've called it in favor of Paul, after all referees do not always make the right call as happened multiple times. And then of course the sweep by Tobias.

Whereas Ash vs Kukui was more balanced but the ultimate flow of battle still did favor Ash quite a bit. I think that more proves Ash's Alola team is stronger than his DP team. His DP team heavily relied on Infernape whereas his Alola team did not need to rely on some super powerful Pokemon like Infernape.

The more problematic issue is XY vs SM not DP vs SM. This is because one could make the argument that his XY team relied on Ash-Greninja, but that just isn't true, so his XY team was also pretty balanced, but they also didn't exactly fair very well, so its hard to know if Sawyer and Alain were just truly stronger or if Ash's Pokemon were just too weak or maybe they were strong just dealing with very strong opponents.

Whereas with SM you really at best only have to go with Gladion/Guzma/Kukui to judge the Pokemon's strength.

So I can see the argument of XY Team > SM Team if you really wanted to but in no way was his DP team better than his Alola team, when it heavily relied on Infernape to even beat Paul.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

And doing very well ultimately against Kukui. I don't think that's because Kukui was weak, whereas Paul for example was strong. Remember again, Kukui at this point was the strongest Alolan Pokemon trainer.

Strongest Alolan trainer not counting frontier brains,elite four and the champion.I'm assuming that region doesn't have any of those trainers.Are there any other trainers in that region that have a full team?That would just further prove my point on the Alola League lacking in legitimate trainers.

I'm pretty sure the implication was Kukui was largely unbeaten especially with being Masked Royal.

When we look at all the trainers that appeared on screen for that region I could see why he wasn't defeated.

Sure Kukui didn't use his last Pokemon and it was Tapu Koko instead, so maybe Kukui suffers that, but even so Kukui still didn't do that bad.

Since Tapu Koko isn't his pokemon it makes him look weaker unless you're going to try and tell me the pokemon he didn't use against Ash was just as strong if not stronger than Tapu Koko.

But compare that to Paul who was MORE than willing to sacrifice Pokemon just to scout Pokemon which is always a pathetic excuse.

This was one of the most impressive strategies he's used in the series,it's not an excuse when Paul literally said it during his battle with Ash.

See even though Kukui has his strongest ace in Incineroar, Kukui's team still proves his Pokemon are far more balanced than Paul or even Alain.

Kukui's team not counting Tapu Koko is more balanced than his Lake Acuity team or better yet TEDUMH?

Torterra
Electivire
Drapion
Ursaring
Magmortar
Honchkrow

Torterra

MOVESET

• 
  
  
  • 
    Stone Edge
    Giga Drain
    Crunch
    Frenzy Plant

ABILITY

• 
  
  
  • 
    Overgrow Shell Armor

----------------------------------------------------------------
Electivire

MOVESET

• 
  
  
  • 
    Thunder
    Brick Break
    Protect
    Thunder Punch

ABILITY

• 
  
  
  • 
    Motor Drive
    Static
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• 
  Drapion
  
  
  
  MOVESET
  • 
    Cross Poison
    Pin Missile
    Toxic Spikes
    Poison Fang
  
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ursaring
  
  
  
  MOVESET
  
  • 
    Hammer Arm
    Focus Blast
    Bulk Up
    Slash
    • 
      ABILITY
  • • 
      
      • 
        Guts
      
      ---------------------------------------------------------------
      Magmortar
      
      
      
      MOVESET
      
      • 
        Flamethrower
        Will-O-Wisp
        Rock Tomb
        Smog
      
      ABILITY
      
      • 
        Flame Body
      
      
      ---------------------------------------------------------------
      Honchkrow
      
      
      
      
      
    • MOVESET
      
      • 
        Sky Attack
        Haze
        Night Slash
        Dark Pulse
      ABILITY
      
      • 
        Super Luck

I have a hard time believing Kukui's team would be more balanced than this combination

Ninjask loses to Infernape while doing heavy damage to Gliscor
Drapion beats Staraptor, Torterra, Buizel before losing to Gliscor
Electivire beats Gliscor/Pikachu and loses to Infernape after blaze powerful to be sure.
Aggron loses to Infernape
Froslass loses to Pikachu
Gastrodon loses to Buizel.

And Ash still struggled to win that battle.

This was Ash's most imbalanced win of any of his rivals, and yet somehow his DP team is stronger than his Alolan team? What?

More imbalanced than the team he used against Gary?No his DP team is not stronger I have his XY team as his strongest.

And I have to assume that Paul is so strong even thought right after Ash gets swept by Tobias. And I'm supposed to rank Kukui lower than Paul just because Ash's team did better in that battle. I'm sorry that ONLY makes sense if Ash is at the same power level which we CANNOT assume.

You do realize Paul doesn't stick with one particular team like Ash does right?

That doesn't make Paul strong necessarily as it may show Ash's DP team just wasn't as strong as his Alolan team. Especially since Paul was curbstomped by Brandon and didn't do anything. Let alone even against Cynthia. I don't think Kukui would've struggled as much against Brandon as Paul did.

These examples will always need context which nobody ever uses they just say Paul lost to them and one of the examples is pointless because one of them happens to be a pokemon champion.Brandon used all 3 of his Regis at the same time while also switching them out and more than likely those Regis were stronger than when they faced Ash in late AG.Outside of those two examples Paul never lost to anyone in an on screen battle before the Sinnoh League,Pokeringer doesn't count.

And even then still. Ash barely beat Paul, got curbstomped by Tobias, Paul has a highly imbalanced team which should've made it easier.

That goes to show how lethal of a trainer Paul is.

I don't think Paul would've done better against Tobias than Ash, on top of Paul being curbstomped by Cynthia/Brandon while also curbstomping Ash in their full battle. Paul was strong or rather had strong individual Pokemon but I don't think the right assumption is to undervalue Alola's strongest trainer (Kukui) just because he sucked against Ash at his full strength.

Him being the strongest trainer isn't saying much if we look at the competition in the Alola League and if there's no Frontier Brains,Elite Four or a Champion.You did place Kukui below Tobias who is below Elite Four level trainers.

Incineroar was implied to be unbeatable or largely undefeated, it's why Masked Royal was so popular. I don't believe Paul's Torterra or even Electivire could beat Incineroar, and don't think I don't see the undervaluing of Incineroar just because Torracat beat it.

I don't know why the default assumption is that the trainer is weak because a pre-evolution beat its evolution using its tricks against it as opposed to believing the trainer using the pre-evolution just didn't train his Pokemon to that elite level.

1.Torterra - (Torterra is Paul's first and most powerful pokemon,it's been with him since the very begining so it has the most experience out of all the pokemon Paul showed on screen.It's only on screen loss is against Sinnoh Champon Cynthia's Garchomp which is nothing to be ashamed of since she is one of the strongest trainers in the world(arguably the strongest.).At the Tag battle Tournament it teamed up with Ash's Staravia to face Brock's Croagunk and Holly's Farfetch'd but Paul's Torterra was able to single handedly take out both of them without the help of Staravia.At the Lake Acuity battle it showed the ability to control which direction Stone Edge goes.It took a lot of punishment from Ash's Gliscor but still KOed it with Frenzy Plant.

Torterra tends to be a little underrated due to it's lack of good feats but that would have changed if it was shown on screen at the sinnoh league.Electivire has shown more versatility but Torterra has the edge in power because it's traveled with Paul in many regions and battled at gyms and leagues already.Plus it was never used to it's full potential where it was put in a fair matchup where we could have truly seen how powerful it was and more than likely it has a hidden ability that was never shown in battle due to the fact that 99% of the battles it was in on screen it was easy competition for Torterra.)

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2.Electivire - (Paul's signature pokemon,it was used the most throughout DP and 9 times out of 10 looked very powerful even back when it was an Elekid.It shares similar traits to Paul like how Pikachu does with Ash,it's willing to do the dirty work and give it's best efforts.In all of it's battles it used the move protect to draw out battles and used the ability static to paralyze it's opponents.In the Lake Acuity battle when it was an Electabuzz Paul used it's move Light Screen to cover up for not only itself but for the other pokemon in Paul's lineup.At the sinnoh league it defeated Barry's ace Empoleon.

Against Ash it came close to sweeping half of his team which involved his Infernape in the final bout.It showed lot of versatility in battle relying on protect to prevent damage and then later using Thunder as a counter shield.It used Thunder on the battlefield to send rock pieces falling on top of Ash's Gliscor and Pikachu.It was revealed to know the ability Motor Drive which increases it's speed.It defeated Gliscor,Pikachu and almost Infernape who had to rely on Hax Blaze the same Blaze that Ash said he wouldn't use but still had to rely on it to win.So overall I'd say Electivire is Paul's most versatile and probably most trusting pokemon.)

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3.Drapion - (A very strong and reliable pokemon,it's only showing was at the sinnoh league,it was always mystery to me whether if this was originally Reggie's pokemon or a random Drapion that he captured in the wild and trained for the league.Despite only appearing in one battle it managed to leave it's mark as one of Paul's strongest by sweeping half of Ash's team,it also managed to poison most of Ash's team with the move Toxic Spikes.)

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4.Ursaring - (Without question one of Paul's strongest pokemon,it got taken out by Paul's Chimchar and then captured but since then it grew into an absolute monster.It became a breakout pokemon on Paul's team during the Lake Acuity battle,it swept half of Ash's team.During that battle it was taking a lot of punishment along with destroying moves like Water Gun using it's Hammer Arm attack.Bulk Up raises it's attack and defense while the ability Guts raises it's attack power even more.At the sinnoh league it looked just as impressive if not more than it did at the Lake Acuity.Ursaring took effective moves like Spikes damage,Close Combat,High Jump Kick,Blaze Kick and even took it's own Focus Blast that got deflected back.In all of this that went down it managed to defeat Barry's Hitmonlee who despite landed a lot of blows still came up short,it got recalled back during it's bout with Barry's Empoleon and was never shown again in battle after that.)

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5.Magmortar - (Magmortar is another big powerhouse,when it was still a Magmar it defeated gym leader Maylene's ace Lucario but it didn't have too good of a showing against Brandon's Registeel,it managed to attack it with Flamethrower but couldn't do anything else after that once it flinched,it got sent back out again and the second time faced Brandon's Regirock but once again was no match and was easily defeated.10 days passed since that battle happened and it grew even stronger and evolved into Magmortar from the intense training it went through before the Lake Acuity battle with Ash.

In that very battle it clashed with Pikachu's Thunder Bolt using Flamethrower,it proved how much of a tank it was by taking Quick Attack,Iron Tail and Aqua Jet without fainting,even later on at the Sinnoh League it took Barry Empoleon's Hydro Cannon without fainting.Magmortar's ability Flame Body allows it to burn any opponents that attacks it physically with contact made.It uses the move Rock Tomb as a defensive shield against attacks like was shown against Pikachu shielding away from it's Volt Tackle.It also used it as a suprise attack on it's opponent like it did against Ash's Buizel where it surrounded itself with rock tomb then attacked from above and attacked with the move Smog.At the Sinnoh League it one shotted Barry's Skarmory.)

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6.Honchkrow - (One of Paul's most reliable pokemon and has also been with Paul outside of the Sinnoh region,in most of it's showings on screen it was impressive and showed good power for a flying type.It easily defeated gym leader Maylene's Meditite and Machoke even if Maylene was out of sync and not in the right frame of mind it's still an impressive feat.It easily defeated Ash's Grotle on two different occasions.In a pokeringer contest it one shotted a previous winner's Dragonite.It lost against Ash's Staraptor in the pokeringer but was never KOed and it still had the ring in it's mouth,was very close to winning Staraptor had to swat it out of it's mouth to win.

In battle Honchkrow never showed signs of fatigue and was powerful.It has moves like Sky Attack which can cause flinching and status move Haze which erases all status changes on the battlefield like burn or poison.It's ability Super Luck increases the critial hit ratio.Honchkrow gets underrated lot due to it having easy competition but it has no control over who it faces in battle,at least most of the time it got the job done in the process the only on screen lost it got in battle was against Sinnoh Champion Cynthia's Garchomp,I honestly think that if it was shown at the sinnoh league it would have gotten more credit.)

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7.Nidoking - (Another pokemon that was only shown in the battle against Brandon but despite that it still had an impressive showing.It took an attack from Registeel's Flash Cannon without feinting,It's Earth Power move managed to land on Brandon's Registeel,Brandon was impressed by the power of the attack,it landed Double Kick and Thunder Bolt but was shortly after defeated by Registeel's Iron Head attack.Once again another bulky powerhouse that wasn't able to show it's true potential in a more even battle but these feats alone puts it above any of Paul's pokemon lower down the list.

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8.Gliscor - (Gliscor was captured in the middle of a city where they were a huge pack of wild Gligar and this Gliscor was the leader.Paul knew of how powerful it was and decided to capture it but it was not easy.His first attempt he used his Murkrow and failed,the second attempt failed while using Weavile,the fourth attempt Gliscor used X-Scissor on his Electabuzz which caused it to crash into Paul,the fifth and final attempt was a success and this time Paul used the combined attacks of Weavile and Electabuzz at the same time and it was enough to capture Gliscor.It appeared again and was facing Ash's Gligar,it defeated it in battle but was never seen again in the series.

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9.Hariyama - (This pokemon didn't show up until mid DP in a battle against Frontier Brain Brandon.Against Brandon's Regirock it blocked it's Stone Edge with just it's hands the same Stone Edge that broke through Electabuzz's protect.It got in some hits with Arm Thrust but was shortly Koed.More often than not Paul's more bulkier pokemon are his most powerful and known for being tanks so it's too bad it wasn't able to prove itself in a more fair matchup but this is where I will place it in my ranking.

I get it, you want to undervalue or underplay all of the Alola region. Kukui was the strongest simply because he had no competition.

So this means he's a big fish in a small pond.

Do people realize how much more lethal of a trainer Paul would be if he had access to Z-Move and Mega Evolution?The guy is the most competitive trainer in the entire series.He's like Batman in terms of prep time plus more,

-Using a pokemon's ability
-Using status moves
-Using opponents pokemon moves to power up their own
-Using type advantage
-Planning ahead
-Switching
-Scouting
-Sacrificing

 

[CMButch]

Tobias is hard to place when compared to Alain, but I think technically by default Tobias would have to come out on top. I mean Tobias would have to prove that he's a league of his own. I mean Ash only took out two. If Mega Charizard was strong enough to take out Darkrai and Latios, I just can't imagine Alain would be able to take out Tobias's other Pokemon. I imagine Darkrai and Latios losing to Mega Charizard simply because that's how strong Tobias was shown to be and that feels right, but the 4 other Pokemon Tobias is just unknown, his other Pokemon just weren't that strong as Bisharp literally had to use Guillotine for a cheap win against Goodra.

So Tobias by default has to be stronger than Alain if they were going to have a full battle that is. I'd technically place Kukui after Alain.

Tobias > Alain > Kukui > Paul



Look at it this way, Infernape still took out 3 of Paul's Pokemon and Ash ultimately struggled to defeat Paul, whereas Ash got sweeped by Tobias largely.

Compare that to Ash struggling against Sawyer and winning, struggling against Alain and ended up losing.

And doing very well ultimately against Kukui. I don't think that's because Kukui was weak, whereas Paul for example was strong. Remember again, Kukui at this point was the strongest Alolan Pokemon trainer.

I'm pretty sure the implication was Kukui was largely unbeaten especially with being Masked Royal.

Braviary beat Lycanroc
Ash's Pikachu was not faring very well against Empoleon and likely could've lost if Ash didn't switch out
Venusaur destroyed Rowlet by trapping him.
Lucario the weakest link lost to Naganadel, so that's a point against him.
Incineroar easily knocked out Melmetal even though I don't think merely being super effective justifies Melmetal losing THAT badly.

Sure Kukui didn't use his last Pokemon and it was Tapu Koko instead, so maybe Kukui suffers that, but even so Kukui still didn't do that bad. Like I said before, I doubt Gladion could've been able to defeat Kukui the way Ash did.

But compare that to Paul who was MORE than willing to sacrifice Pokemon just to scout Pokemon which is always a pathetic excuse.

See even though Kukui has his strongest ace in Incineroar, Kukui's team still proves his Pokemon are far more balanced than Paul or even Alain.

Ninjask loses to Infernape while doing heavy damage to Gliscor
Drapion beats Staraptor, Torterra, Buizel before losing to Gliscor
Electivire beats Gliscor/Pikachu and loses to Infernape after blaze powerful to be sure.
Aggron loses to Infernape
Froslass loses to Pikachu
Gastrodon loses to Buizel.

And Ash still struggled to win that battle.

This was Ash's most imbalanced win of any of his rivals, and yet somehow his DP team is stronger than his Alolan team? What?

And I have to assume that Paul is so strong even thought right after Ash gets swept by Tobias. And I'm supposed to rank Kukui lower than Paul just because Ash's team did better in that battle. I'm sorry that ONLY makes sense if Ash is at the same power level which we CANNOT assume.


That doesn't make Paul strong necessarily as it may show Ash's DP team just wasn't as strong as his Alolan team. Especially since Paul was curbstomped by Brandon and didn't do anything. Let alone even against Cynthia. I don't think Kukui would've struggled as much against Brandon as Paul did.



And even then still. Ash barely beat Paul, got curbstomped by Tobias, Paul has a highly imbalanced team which should've made it easier.

And yet somehow for whatever reason people think his DP team is stronger than his Alolan team just because Ash did better against Kukui.

I don't think Paul would've done better against Tobias than Ash, on top of Paul being curbstomped by Cynthia/Brandon while also curbstomping Ash in their full battle. Paul was strong or rather had strong individual Pokemon but I don't think the right assumption is to undervalue Alola's strongest trainer (Kukui) just because he sucked against Ash at his full strength.

Incineroar was implied to be unbeatable or largely undefeated, it's why Masked Royal was so popular. I don't believe Paul's Torterra or even Electivire could beat Incineroar, and don't think I don't see the undervaluing of Incineroar just because Torracat beat it.

I don't know why the default assumption is that the trainer is weak because a pre-evolution beat its evolution using its tricks against it as opposed to believing the trainer using the pre-evolution just didn't train his Pokemon to that elite level.

I get it, you want to undervalue or underplay all of the Alola region. Kukui was the strongest simply because he had no competition. But may I remind you of how brutal Guzma was. He defeated Ilmia, who could not be considered a pushover especially since he had mega evolution and was going to other Pokemon regions for their Pokemon leagues, and his normal Scizor outright beats Ilmia by pure cruel strategy. And then against Lana, Primarina didn't do anything against Golisopod, Primarina was always going to lose. Then you have Ash vs Guzma where Ash did manage to make it out on top.

I don't think that's just because Guzma was weak, maybe we should give credit to Ash's Pokemon instead. Instead of sweeping it under the rug by "Alola league means automatic wins to Ash because they are weak by default"

In other words, Ash losing Pokemon to Paul has to show how weak his DP team is, I think Ash having a really balanced win against Kukui has to be a sign that Alola Ash is stronger than DP Ash by far. Ash struggled badly and still ultimately beat Paul thanks to Infernape in a battle that I can agree could've gone to Paul though I disagree that the referee should've called it in favor of Paul, after all referees do not always make the right call as happened multiple times. And then of course the sweep by Tobias.

Whereas Ash vs Kukui was more balanced but the ultimate flow of battle still did favor Ash quite a bit. I think that more proves Ash's Alola team is stronger than his DP team. His DP team heavily relied on Infernape whereas his Alola team did not need to rely on some super powerful Pokemon like Infernape.

The more problematic issue is XY vs SM not DP vs SM. This is because one could make the argument that his XY team relied on Ash-Greninja, but that just isn't true, so his XY team was also pretty balanced, but they also didn't exactly fair very well, so its hard to know if Sawyer and Alain were just truly stronger or if Ash's Pokemon were just too weak or maybe they were strong just dealing with very strong opponents.

Whereas with SM you really at best only have to go with Gladion/Guzma/Kukui to judge the Pokemon's strength.

So I can see the argument of XY Team > SM Team if you really wanted to but in no way was his DP team better than his Alola team, when it heavily relied on Infernape to even beat Paul.

1. DP team vs Alola team when it comes to strength( and no Z moves); DP team wins. Probably with Z moves: SM team would win because Z moves are ultimate finishers( depending on what level Pokemon is) Golisopod blocked GH for example. It goes: Blazeape > DP Peakachu > SM Peakachu > Incineroar > Gible's DM( if hits) > Gliscor > Melmetal > DL. So yeah, DP team would win but it would be tough( without Z moves).

2.Paul being curbstomped by Cynthia and Brandon somehow means he's weaker than Kukui because of what? LOL. A) Cynthia is Champion and Brandon is last FB. Kukui is a professor. b). Paul used weaker team??!?!Hello. We're talking about his strongest team.

3.Unbeatable in Alola region yeah. Fodder in other regions compared to E4 and high FB's like Brandon's Pokemon and probably Anabel's. IDK about Torterra but Electivire would. I already explained, here's again. Electivire is very likely stronger than DP Peakachu who > BF Peakachu who beat Regice who is at least mid FB.That makes Electivire at least high FB. Incineroar pulled NOTHING that makes him that level except maybe he would be with Z move( with Darkest Lariat Z move). But Base : no.

4.I am not underplaying Alola I am just using logic and feats how strong these are. It's you who is overplaying them. Guzma defeated Ilima with strategy. MK > Scizor with power. But I do agree that Golisopod > MK and Incineroar > Golisopod. MK is by feats at least low FB, thus making Incineroar at least mid FB. Electivire is still stronger.

5. We're talking here on who would win Kukui vs Paul. Paul would win with strongest team or probably even with SL team if Kukui doesn't use TK since he never intended to. Kukui's team is mid FB+ level(Incineroar) and remaining Pokemon are high gym/high gym+ level which Paul's team already beat/ are stronger than. Kukui's last Pokemon would beat Naganadel and lose to Pikachu very easily.

6. I agree that SM team is more balanced than DP team.
7. I agree with balancing but we're talking about power IIRC. A-G would sweep entire SM roster(not counting Pikachu).

 

[RafaSceptile]

Pikachu is always strongest than in the previous region except in BW during the start thanks to Zekrom. JN Pikachu > SM Pikachu > XY Pikachu > BW Pikachu (?) > DP Pikachu > AG Pikachu > OS Pikachu.
During DP Pikachu had his lowest win ratio ever, not even in Unova it did a worse job than in Sinnoh.

 

[CMButch]

Pikachu is always strongest than in the previous region except in BW during the start thanks to Zekrom. JN Pikachu > SM Pikachu > XY Pikachu > BW Pikachu (?) > DP Pikachu > AG Pikachu > OS Pikachu.
During DP Pikachu had his lowest win ratio ever, not even in Unova it did a worse job than in Sinnoh.

Technically you're correct thanks to gimmicks(Z move and Gigachu) except BW Pikachu which he's not stronger than BF and DP Pikachu.
So it goes: Gigachu > 10MV Pikachu > XY > DP > BF > idk, AG = BW(?)
But in Base aka no gimmicks it goes( not counting PM because it's new and it's not Peakachu)
XY > DP > SM > BF > AG= BW(?) > Johto > OI > Kanto
BW Peakachu is not stronger than DP Peakachu nd BF Peakachu thanks to feats, because that would mean Cameron's Lucario is low E4 level which is lol no.
BW is a start where Pikachu can regress from previous Peak( in Base), and who knows probably in gimmicks( maybe in the end of PM, 10MV is stronger than Gigachu).

 

[RafaSceptile]

Technically you're correct thanks to gimmicks(Z move and Gigachu) except BW Pikachu which he's not stronger than BF and DP Pikachu.
So it goes: Gigachu > 10MV Pikachu > XY > DP > BF > idk, AG = BW(?)
But in Base aka no gimmicks it goes( not counting PM because it's new and it's not Peakachu)
XY > DP > SM > BF > AG= BW(?) > Johto > OI > Kanto
BW Peakachu is not stonger than DP Peakachua nd BF Peakachu thanks to feats, because that would mean Cameron's Lucario is low E4 level which is lol no.

That's the reason why BW Pikachu has the "(?)", Because he has no feats unlike DP Pikachu (Larios), XY Pikachu (Tyranitar/Metagross) and SM Pikachu (Silvally/Tapu Koko)