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The Sun, the Moon and Everyone's Dreams! (1088)

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
The only difference between Games! Lusamine and Anime! Lusamine is that the former was evil and the latter was not. Both were bad mothers who ignored their children's problems, but Anime! Lusamine had a chance to vindicate those mistakes.
Except in the games Gladion was disgusted by her descent to insanity that he took Type: Null away and fled, and Lillie forced herself to endure her mother's nurturing until she later took off with Nebby while remaining low. Both kids were traumatized by Lusamine.

The anime does away with pretty much all the trauma, though. Lillie is not hiding away from her and Gladion is simply left with an Alain 2.0 view (and the complete distancing from Team Skull). The closest Lillie has some real disgust with her mother is evolving Clefairy without her consent, and Type: Null only ever seems to have a problem with Faba.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Except in the games Gladion was disgusted by her descent to insanity that he took Type: Null away and fled, and Lillie forced herself to endure her mother's nurturing until she later took off with Nebby while remaining low. Both kids were traumatized by Lusamine.

The anime does away with pretty much all the trauma, though. Lillie is not hiding away from her and Gladion is simply left with an Alain 2.0 view (and the complete distancing from Team Skull). The closest Lillie has some real disgust with her mother is evolving Clefairy without her consent, and Type: Null only ever seems to have a problem with Faba.

I mean, in the end Gladion fled by "Lusamine's fault" because he believed that Lusamine knew about the incident with Type: Null and Faba without doing anything about it. But the main motivation was to become stronger for to protect Lillie because he wasn't enable to do anything against Nihilego during that incident.

In a bit unrelated topic, that motivation was why I think the Ash and Gladion rivalry feels more justified than others like Ash and Sawyer, because Ash was able to do what Gladion can't, helping his sister and saving his mother, then Gladion had a reason to become stronger than Ash.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
I never reviewed this episode:

-I don't like that Naganadel was used as a convenient sixth Pokémon that goes as random as it came, but hey, at least it did better than Goodra
-The part with everyone talking about their dreams and what they will do on vacation was good, I would like to see if they have progress on that in Pokémon Journeys
-Ash VS Kiawe was decent but Ash must have used Incineroar or Melmetal with a Z move. The best dog already had his moment to shine.
-The best part by far was the Aether family.
After JN037, we should see a continuation of this plot ... I hope.
-For those of you who don't like Pokémon Journeys ... blame Olivia for telling Ash to explore the world.

Other random stuff:
-First time Kiawe's Charizard uses Inferno Overdrive
-First episode aired on February 29 between Japan and the USA

Overall, for me it is a 7/10. Unfortunately this episode happened between a monumental battle conclusion and an amazing goodbye episode, so this one can be a bit forgettable because of that.
I figured the reason Ash used Lycanroc against Kiawe was to make up for it jobbing in the exhibition match, lol
 

Zhydra

Master of Chaos!
The only difference between Games! Lusamine and Anime! Lusamine is that the former was evil and the latter was not. Both were bad mothers who ignored their children's problems, but Anime! Lusamine had a chance to vindicate those mistakes.

Or in regards to the Ultra Games, that Lusamine also went through redeeming herself as well if you bothered exploring the post game and we see more of that going into Masters. (The Aether Family came from Ultras outcome in Masters.)

Every version of that character after the vanilla games have NEVER went that exact route ever again, this includes the Manga and that's probably because SM focused way too much on Lusamine as a villain and neglected EVERYTHING regarding background, nuance and closure to where no one caught on nor wanted it.

The anime took out the villainy aspect of Lusamine and kept everything else wrong with her. Ultra, bothered adding nuance to her while still keeping her the main human antagonist responsible for the Ultra Beast stuff getting worse. (Necrozma wouldn't have escalated if she didn't go Leeroy Jenkins.) The Manga actually bothered showing us the background and portrayed her as sympathetically insane than the evil she devil she came off as in vanilla. Even showing us what might have been her thought process in regards to how she and the family fell apart when Mohn disappeared. (AND NO I'm not referring to Lillie's ptsd episode.)

I been thinking for a long time that vanilla's Lusamine was a beta because of that. Like it or not, SM as a whole felt like a beta, even in its story since it never finished up on anything, barely explained things when it mattered and back tracked on it's message when Lillie went back to her mother at the end.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Or in regards to the Ultra Games, that Lusamine also went through redeeming herself as well if you bothered exploring the post game and we see more of that going into Masters. (The Aether Family came from Ultras outcome in Masters.)

Every version of that character after the vanilla games have NEVER went that exact route ever again, this includes the Manga and that's probably because SM focused way too much on Lusamine as a villain and neglected EVERYTHING regarding background, nuance and closure to where no one caught on nor wanted it.

The anime took out the villainy aspect of Lusamine and kept everything else wrong with her. Ultra, bothered adding nuance to her while still keeping her the main human antagonist responsible for the Ultra Beast stuff getting worse. (Necrozma wouldn't have escalated if she didn't go Leeroy Jenkins.) The Manga actually bothered showing us the background and portrayed her as sympathetically insane than the evil she devil she came off as in vanilla. Even showing us what might have been her thought process in regards to how she and the family fell apart when Mohn disappeared. (AND NO I'm not referring to Lillie's ptsd episode.)

I been thinking for a long time that vanilla's Lusamine was a beta because of that. Like it or not, SM as a whole felt like a beta, even in its story since it never finished up on anything, barely explained things when it mattered and back tracked on it's message when Lillie went back to her mother at the end.

I know about that in the USUM games, but the problem is that I think SM Anime is based on the SM Games, which is why Professor Kukui is the last opponent in the Alola League and why they never made the Necrozma arc as in the USUM games or the Rainbow Team Rocket
 

Zhydra

Master of Chaos!
I know about that in the USUM games, but the problem is that I think SM Anime is based on the SM Games, which is why Professor Kukui is the last opponent in the Alola League and why they never made the Necrozma arc as in the USUM games or the Rainbow Team Rocket

The SM anime is more based on both games when you think about it.

The added UB's, Dusk Lycanroc, Lusamine's changes in general, (Anime she was a decent person, Ultra... she was still garbage if with a messiah complex.) how Poipole and his kind played a role VERY identical to the URS. The Ultra Guardian's design.

Ultra's additions, Ultra Ruin. Thinking about it more, how Lillie got the best of both games in regards to her. All the focus and detail on her and her family that Ultra demoted to a major role (Instead of the center) and an outcome that doesn't back track on all of it. (I really hate SM's ending.)

To an extent, it focused purely on Hau as a rival for the little screen time he gotten and made him something of a credit compared to his JOKE of a debut from the SM games. (Still not as great as he was in Ultra)

All while doings its own thing and making something different from both. (Basically, it succeeded where the Manga flopped in the end.)

Also the SM anime could have adapted something based on RR instead of that whole Guzzlord stuff, the Giovanni side plot got dropped after Matori got her butt kicked.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
The SM anime is more based on both games when you think about it.

The added UB's, Dusk Lycanroc, Lusamine's changes in general, (Anime she was a decent person, Ultra... she was still garbage if with a messiah complex.) how Poipole and his kind played a role VERY identical to the URS. The Ultra Guardian's design.

Ultra's additions, Ultra Ruin. Thinking about it more, how Lillie got the best of both games in regards to her. All the focus and detail on her and her family that Ultra demoted to a major role (Instead of the center) and an outcome that doesn't back track on all of it. (I really hate SM's ending.)

All while doings its own thing and making something different from both. (Basically, it succeeded where the Manga flopped in the end.)

Also the SM anime could have adapted something based on RR instead of that whole Guzzlord stuff, the Giovanni side plot got dropped after Matori got her butt kicked.

The fact that they showcased all USUM new Pokémon (and Meltan/Melmetal) maybe is related to the fact that SM never had a proper movie. So they needed to debut all the Gen VII Pokémon in the main series.

That's also a fun fact, SM was the first series in debuted all the Pokémon of its generation.
 

Zhydra

Master of Chaos!
The fact that they showcased all USUM new Pokémon (and Meltan/Melmetal) maybe is related to the fact that SM never had a proper movie. So they needed to debut all the Gen VII Pokémon in the main series.

That's also a fun fact, SM was the first series in debuted all the Pokémon of its generation.

Yep, yep and why they debut all the Ultra Beasts. (I like how they were portrayed as more than destructive aliens, but they needed a finale.)

Out of topic, I think I know what is going to happen with the Aether Family and it's going to be all about Crown Tundra if you know the lore about the Max Raid Den and where it's legendary pokemon and UB's came from. When Journey's does that Arc, I hope it's a long one since that expansion pack has a looooot of stuff to cover.

Just have Chloe come along (hopefully willingly instead of getting dragged.) and things are going to get interesting.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Yep, yep and why they debut all the Ultra Beasts. (I like how they were portrayed as more than destructive aliens, but they needed a finale.)

Out of topic, I think I know what is going to happen with the Aether Family and it's going to be all about Crown Tundra if you know the lore about the Max Raid Den and where it's legendary pokemon and UB's came from. When Journey's does that Arc, I hope it's a long one since that expansion pack has a looooot of stuff to cover.

Just have Chloe come along (hopefully willingly instead of getting dragged.) and things are going to get interesting.

I hope for another (at least) 4 episodes arc like the current one.

At least properly in the East. In the West? Not so much.

Well...at least it debuted in minor appearences. Seriously, I hate two things:
  1. They banned that episode and I liked it
  2. Ash should've catch that Passimian
 

Zhydra

Master of Chaos!
I hope for another (at least) 4 episodes arc like the current one.

Try as long as the Aether Arc because each part of Crown needs to be fleshed out a bit. Gou and his Zapdos capades, Calyrex, the Regis and then the Ultra Beast stuff.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Try as long as the Aether Arc because each part of Crown needs to be fleshed out a bit. Gou and his Zapdos capades, Calyrex, the Regis and then the Ultra Beast stuff.

So twelve episodes? Well...eight if we discount filler episodes (nine if you consider the Kukui and Burnet's wedding episode as part of the arc and not being a filler episode)
 

Zhydra

Master of Chaos!
So twelve episodes? Well...eight if we discount filler episodes (nine if you consider the Kukui and Burnet's wedding episode as part of the arc and not being a filler episode)

I was thinking eight since the Wedding episode isn't quite a part of that arc. Two episodes each for the main things in the Crown Tundra. Maybe another to get the four Swords out of the way.
 
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RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
I was thinking eight since the Wedding episode isn't quite a part of that arc. Two episodes each for the main things in the Crown Tundra. Maybe another to get the four Swords out of the way.

Considering than longest Pokémon Leagues (except Alola) are between 6-8 episodes, it can be possible but a bit difficult
 

Zhydra

Master of Chaos!
Considering than longest Pokémon Leagues (except Alola) are between 6-8 episodes, it can be possible but a bit difficult

Crown has a lot more going for it compared to SwSh's base narrative and I want to see Chloe and Lillie interact in ways that's meaningful.
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
Crown has a lot more going for it compared to SwSh's base narrative and I want to see Chloe and Lillie interact in ways that's meaningful.
Lillie: Does your mother spoil you rotten 24/7?

Chloe: No, she gives me enough space I don't know what to do with. By the way, what is wrong with your voice? It sounds like a Pachirisu is being asphyxiated.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Lillie: Does your mother spoil you rotten 24/7?

Chloe: No, she gives me enough space I don't know what to do with. By the way, what is wrong with your voice? It sounds like a Pachirisu is being asphyxiated.
I don't know why Laurie Hymes didn't use her Serah voice from Yugioh DSOD. It would fit Lillie better instead of what we got thanks to Lisa Ortiz

At least she has a pleasant sounding voice in the Japanese dub. Lol.
 
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