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The Tangent Topic (Currently: Homosexuality and Religion)

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
The thing is most religions were perfectly tolerant of homosexuality until around the 1800s and “purity” was all the rage. Even Islam was accepting and the Turks had a lot of writings and art depicting homosexuality as being normal. The Asian religions have never had any issues with it and the Hindu had temple art that were destroyed by the British and other Europeans simply for being related to homosexuality. The Bible never truly mentioned being gay as a sin like some right wing Christians claim. It also has a lot of other rules and restrictions that are often ignored by those Christians and only Orthodox Jews would still be observing such rules.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
I've personally never understood the hatred against homosexuality, particularly in the modern age.

People seem adamant on making a dire fuss over something that has no affect on them whatsoever. It just boggles me. The concept of homophobia is most confusing when concerning heterosexual men. I hear more about male-male intercourse from homophobic straight men than I do from anyone I know in the LGBTQ community . I have a number of queer friends, and most of them only ever talk about current pop music icons, video games, underground fashion trends, and plants (my god they love plants lol). I've never understood why these straight men concern themselves with the nocturnal activities of other men so much. I mean, truly, if you're straight, shouldn't another man getting plowed in the butt be the last thing on your mind? I've yet to grasp this concept.

When it comes to religion, I've always been one to leave it to choice and exclusive inner practice. What you believe is your business and yours alone. If your faith tells you homosexuality is a sin, fine. Don't be gay. However, don't go berating Bob and Barry down the street. That is your faith, not theirs. A perfect example is mi madrina Dalia. She is a devout Christian and personally considers same-sex relations to be sinful. However, she has never cast out nor mistreated any of the queer people in her family. She loves them dearly and welcomes them with open arms. She understands that her faith is no one's business but her own. I do wish, and hope, others could understand this.
 
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NPC

sleep researcher
The thing is most religions were perfectly tolerant of homosexuality until around the 1800s and “purity” was all the rage. Even Islam was accepting and the Turks had a lot of writings and art depicting homosexuality as being normal. The Asian religions have never had any issues with it and the Hindu had temple art that were destroyed by the British and other Europeans simply for being related to homosexuality. The Bible never truly mentioned being gay as a sin like some right wing Christians claim. It also has a lot of other rules and restrictions that are often ignored by those Christians and only Orthodox Jews would still be observing such rules.

This is a very simplistic understanding of the many ways in which ancient and modern cultures have handled homosexuality. The idea of a person "being gay," marrying a same-sex partner and starting a family with them, is absolutely a product of the 20th century, and was shaped by the rise of urbanization and the AIDS pandemic. In previous eras and cultures, homosexuality occupied certain social niches and functions, but was never really an "alternative" to heterosexuality. Attitudes also differed greatly between male-male and female-female sexual relations. The former usually occurred between an older "tutor" figure and a younger "student" figure (nowadays these would be considered predatory), and were expected to reach their end once the younger partner become old enough to marry a woman. Meanwhile, lesbianism was either shunned or ignored, but almost never given a place in society. Other cultures had a "third gender" social role for "feminized men" or "masculinized women," but these often had more to do with socio-economic opportunities, and usually conflated homosexuality with transgender identity.

In all cases, nobody was allowed to live a full life as an LGBT person without experiencing the pressure to marry and sire children. And those who chose the certain roles which were awarded to non-conforming individuals (such as "third gender" clans in premodern India or certain Native American tribes) were usually very restricted in how they were allowed to live their lives, which jobs they were allowed to have, etc. In no case could you find true equality, at least not in the way LGBT people (rightly) expect from today's secular democracies.

While Christian thought and politics have certainly shaped homophobic attitudes across the world (especially in how they relate to misogyny and moral panics about "degeneracy"), the pre-Christian world was by no means a paradise for LGBT people. It's very dangerous to think this way, because it leads to conclusions such as "if we could just get rid of Christianity, everything would be fine," which is both disingenious and frankly intolerant in the opposite direction. And I say all this as a gay man, btw.
 

Ghost94

Well-Known Member
The Bible never truly mentioned being gay as a sin like some right wing Christians claim.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (CSB)
9 Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or males who have sex with males,
10 no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.
11 And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

There is one thing that will keep a person from entering God’s kingdom(heaven) and that’s unforgiven sin. But if we turn from our wicked ways(repent) and have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, we can receive God’s mercy.

John 3:16 (CSB)
“For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
I've never understood why these straight men concern themselves with the nocturnal activities of other men so much. I mean, truly, if you're straight, shouldn't another man getting plowed in the butt be the last thing on your mind? I've yet to grasp this concept.

What you believe is your business and yours alone. If your faith tells you homosexuality is a sin, fine. Don't be gay. However, don't go berating Bob and Barry down the street. That is your faith, not theirs. A perfect example is mi madrina Dalia. She is a devout Christian and personally considers same-sex relations to be sinful. However, she has never cast out nor mistreated any of the queer people in her family. She loves them dearly and welcomes them with open arms. She understands that her faith is no one's business but her own. I do wish, and hope, others could understand this.

Jesus said this to His disciples after his resurrection from the grave:

Mark 16:15-16 (CSB)
15 Then he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

If people believe the gospel they will be saved, but they must first hear/see it. And how can they hear/see the gospel without a preacher/evangelist/missionary/pastor/believer sharing it as it was once shared with them? God wants all to be saved from His own wrath in hell.

2 Peter 3:9 (CSB)
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
What the bible says about homosexuality is exactly as relevant as what Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets says about homosexuality.

In other words, it isn't.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
Jesus said this to His disciples after his resurrection from the grave:

Mark 16:15-16 (CSB)
15 Then he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

If people believe the gospel they will be saved, but they must first hear/see it. And how can they hear/see the gospel without a preacher/evangelist/missionary/pastor/believer sharing it as it was once shared with them? God wants all to be saved from His own wrath in hell.

2 Peter 3:9 (CSB)
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.

I guess you missed it, so I'll reiterate for you:

"What you believe is your business and yours alone. If your faith tells you homosexuality is a sin, that's fine. Don't be gay. However, don't go berating Bob and Barry down the street. That is your faith, not theirs."
 

Antiyonder

Overlord
I guess you missed it, so I'll reiterate for you:

"What you believe is your business and yours alone. If your faith tells you homosexuality is a sin, that's fine. Don't be gay. However, don't go berating Bob and Barry down the street. That is your faith, not theirs."

I would also submit as a Christian that whether some of us are for it (either dismissing it as a sin or a sin not meriting punishment) or against it, one thing we all have in common is picking which of our rules we follow or dismiss on a regular basis (as opposed to a sin committed once in a blue moon).

Heck Butch Hartman (Known for involvement in creating The Fairly Oddparents) has been eager to make a streaming service Oaxis and asked for funding, withholding it planned for Christian based content. As such he basically lied by omission and refused refunds (theft) since obviously some people would have refused paying him had such info been disclosed sooner.

Also he claims autism can be cured and the depression and/or suicide is something that didn't happen in his day or is something to get over.


I don't know. I think there is something to be said about the idea that many people just pull the religious card cause without putting too much thought into it, you theoretically sound noble and unbiased.

I mean I don't think I've ever heard of a person who opposes say murder solely cause of religious beliefs.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
Well, time to make some enemies...

The Bible also condones stoning your daughter to death if she loses her virginity outside of wedlock, and yet if you actually did that,, this Christian nation we apparently live in would (hopefully) lock you up and throw away the key.

Or maybe you're a big fan of the nice, clean New Testament (just not the part where Jesus says all the horrific stuff in the Old Testament still applies), in which case I wonder how you feel about Jesus's advised method to avoid sin; the removal of your own eyes and hands?

Every Christian ignores parts of the Bible. It's an inherently absurd work of fiction written 2000 years ago by nearly illiterate sheep herders; it must be interpreted loosely and parts of it must be outright discarded for you to make anything resembling sense of it. This makes it telling when you choose to throw out some of the obviously horrific things like stoning your daughter and cutting off your own hands, but uphold the degradation of homosexual people. Clearly you recognize that killing your daughter is fundamentally immoral, but you don't seem to see anything wrong with dehumanizing LGBT people. This is bigotry, plain and simple, and a two millenia old collection of incoherent fairy tales will not excuse you from that fact.

As a side note, I do want to apologize to more moderate Christians who might feel caught up in the crossfire here. I don't agree with your worldview but if you aren't harming anyone, what you believe is your choice and your business alone.
 

Antiyonder

Overlord
In addition to that and what I previously added, I don't know. I feel if there was any merit to opposing it such a reason would have been provided long ago as anything important requires hardwork. In this case research and making the most airtight argument possible.

So again it's more a personal hangup plus prideful people having conditioned themselves to oppose it so long that changing it to them means admitting wasted investment in a lie.
 
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