The team everybody hates

[Rhys29]

My first competitive team

Old team, seeing how it will do in the current metagame. Becuase I have no idea what it is. I do find it sad I can still do all the tags and image stuff off the top of my head though.

Skarmory@Shed Shell/Lum Berry
Impish, Keen Eye
252 HP / 96 Defense / 160 Special Defense
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Brave Bird
- Roost/Taunt​

A basic Skarm lead. BH suggested Skarm and I thought it fit. I needed a Ground immunity anyways. Since it's actually far more beneficial to me to underrun Metagross, I simply focused on the defenses. Lead Machamp will tap this guy with Dynamic Punch and Metagross gives me all the layers if it doesn't Explode asap. There are plenty of leads that can beat this one so I'm still looking around.

Machamp@Leftovers
Adamant, No Guard
252 HP / 248 Attack / 8 Speed
- Substitute
- Dynamic Punch
- Payback
- Stone Edge​

Nothing likes this set. No one likes switching into it, no one likes dealing with it. The only issue I have is bringing it in but that's not too much of a hassle anyways. This guy tanks once he gets behind his sub. Moveset made for just about every foe Machamp will encounter.

Jirachi@Leftovers
Adamant, Serene Grace
80 HP / 252 Attack / 176 Speed
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch​

Only Swampert likes this set, and not too much thanks to crazy flinch hax. Easily my fav of all of these guys since its the most destructive once set up. Speed is set to outrun Lucario and inadvertantly Heatran. This guy is just plain annoying. Should help me draw out the bulky Ground types to batter them continuously.

Gengar@Life Orb
Timid, Levitate
4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast​

A Fighting and Normal immunity is always welcome and I need to keep the offensive style going. This set has gotten almost too much hype so I'll give it a shot. I don't like having another Sub user crippled by Tar's Sandstorm though. This saves my team from Explosions, Extremespeeds, etc. Set up and go from there.

Starmie@Life Orb
Timid, Natural Cure
4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
- Recover
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt​

Oh, NOW people realize LO Starmie is awesome. Typical. Late game cleaner and deals with teams once I've gotten the bulky guys softened. Hydro Pump > Surf for the incredible power increase. The rest is for coverage. Recover keeps it around which is useful.

Heatran@Choice Scarf
Timid, Flash Fire
44 HP / 252 Special Attack / 208 Speed
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power {Electric}
- Dragon Pulse​

Just needed something to finish off the team and take care of the troubling weakness to Gyarados and Dragonite. Though this isn't the best answer, it will help if they've taken some damage, which I intend on dealing to them. Hits hard and draws in Blissey and such so Breloom and Machamp can go to town. Speed set to outrun Gyarados and that's it. He can take some hits and I intend on keeping him able to do so.

~ ~ ~​

Team is old. I am old. Suggestions are welcome. If you're going to suggest replacing something, make sure whatever it is you are suggesting is annoying as hell. That's what the team is generally based around. Or just say hi. Anyone remember EFT? Gwad that was fun.​

 

[jesusfreak94]

Wow, it feels so weird rating a veteran's team...

The first thing that I noticed was your lead. It looks pretty interesting, but I just don't know how it would stand up against today's popular leads. Since you like annoying stuff, you could try Colbur Berry Azelf over Lee. It screws over leads like Machamp and Tyranitar thy think they can just walk all over an Azelf lead.

Azelf@Colbur Berry
Jolly
Levitate
EVs: 8 HP, 140 Atk, 144 SpD, 216 Spe
Moves:
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-U-Turn
-Explosion

I loves the LO Starmie myself, and I think that it handles Gyara and Nite fairly well, so you may not need Heatran. In light of that, how do you handle SubPainSplit Gengar? One of the best ways to do it is with priority, so I recommend over Heatran, and I can't believe the words I'm typing, CB Scizor.

Scizor@Choice Band
Adamant
Technician
EVs: 248 HP, 252 Atk, 8 Spe
Moves:
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-U-Turn
-Pursuit

Other than that, this team looks pretty solid. Hope this helps!

 

[Rhys29]

I should prolly get an SR user in there but I'm not diggin the Azelf lead. Thought about Azelf a bit but it just tends to fall flat against too many things. I will ponder about the lead some more.

Sub Split Gengar is pretty weak imo and I don't worry about it. The only thing it could see as an opening is Breloom, and God help it if it switches in on Leech Seed (thinking it had a shot with Focus Punch). I could possibly go with Seed Bomb > Leech Seed but that's not as fun. The rest of the team deals with it pretty solidly. Not Hitmonlee though, but odds are it isn't around. To be honest I was contemplating Scizor > Heatran but my Heatran weakness is pretty big without it. The full out immunity to Fire attacks is damn useful for this team. Not to mention the general resistances.

I might actually toss Breloom for SubGar at this point. Thoughts?

 

[Lorica]

This team is actually ravaged by several common offensive threats. Bulky DD Taunt Gyarados is easily the most problematic being able to easily set-up on a choice-locked move on Heatran or Taunt Breloom and Jirachi and DD up. From there it can easily dispose of your whole team with the appropriate move. Agility Metagross can massacre this team if it takes advantages of Heatran locked into Dragon Pulse or HP Electric. Similarly, Flygon and Jolly DD Dragonite are definitely the threats this team does not want to encounter while playing.

Not only is your Hitmonlee lead useless mid-game, but it is extremely redundant in conjunction with Machamp and does not fare well at all against common leads. Metagross / Machamp and numerous leads beat Hitmonlee with great ease.

While all that has been said may lead you to think that this is a horrible team, it actually isn't. Offensively, this team quite good, performing well against opposing stall teams and also applying pressure on offensive teams.

However, analysing the components of this team, your team is extremely frail and fragile. You are simply unable to take on some of the hard hitters of the current metagame. In order to remedy most of the issues that were stated, I'm going to reccomend switching Hitmonlee and Machamp's current roles. Leading with the standard attacking lead Machamp and replacing Hitmonlee with this:

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Nature: Bold
-Thunderbolt
-Reflect
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

This is basically the solution of all your problems. Providing a solid DD Gyarados and Agilty Metagross counter, it will support your team with Reflect giving you insurance against the new threats from this metagame such as Chesto Rest Kingdra, Jolly DD Dragonite, Flygon and others as well. Try it out!

Good luck with your team Rhys29.

 

[calze6]

What does you hitmonlee lead do over luke and weavile anti-leads? Sorry on my uselessness with a stupid question. What do the EVs for breloom do? a 44HP/252Atk/212Spd EV spread allows optimum poison heal point. Do the extra HP EVs do anything?

 

[Banned]

This team is actually ravaged by several common offensive threats. Bulky DD Taunt Gyarados is easily the most problematic being able to easily set-up on a choice-locked move on Heatran or Taunt Breloom and Jirachi and DD up. From there it can easily dispose of your whole team with the appropriate move.

Wat
Starmie can easily take a +1 SE and OHKO back with tbolt
Machamp can also take a Waterfall and do about 70% with SE

 

[jesusfreak94]

Most of the stuff that Lorica mentioned can threaten his team, except Bulky DD Gyara, but including offensive DD Gyara. I think that switching oilut Breeloom for SubGar will really work well with his team's offensive synergy, but with that change made this team will be very offensively orientated. That being said, Rotom-H would really stop the momentum of this team cold. Therefore I recommend this instead.

Flygon@Choice Scarf
Jolly
Levitate
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4 SpD
Moves:
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-U-Turn
-Thunderpunch

This set is tailored to handle he mentioned threats, and it makes a great scout. Thunderpunch hits Gyara way harder than SE, as well as other Water types. The rest of the moves are pretty standard for this set.

You really could use Stealth Rock on this team. If you don't like Colbur Berry Azelf, then you could try a normal Focus Sash lead set. If you plain don't like Azelf, then I have one good suggestion. You could make Machamp your anti-lead, and you could make Heatran a Stealth Rock supporter. Or you could make Heatran a lead and keep Machamp as he is. This will be especially effective, seeing as you have a decent spin blocker in Gengar.

 

[Rhys29]

@Lorica: And here I was expecting to be trolled. Solid, you mention some weaknesses I'm not to comfortable about. However Heatran does outrun Adamant Gyarados and OHKO's with HP-Electric. And Starmie outruns the bulky variants. It is still an issue. Jolly Dragonite does not exist and I check Jolly Flygon with great justice. Agility Metagross is a problem if it gets a chance to set up, but Heatran is the only real shot it has. These things are threats but I don't see myself being that weak to them.

Machamp and Metagross are both OHKO'd by Counter. Though both parties will have to rely on luck for the confusion hax of Dynamic Punch. I don't see it that useless midgame since it can deliver a crucial priority hit, smash something with Close Combat (Kingdra is noted), or just come in with 1 HP and die on something, alowing me a clean switch which is vital for a team of Sub users. That being said it isn't the greatest thing out there and I am still open to suggestions but it's a pretty solid lead. I don't like Machamp leads because Machamp wrecks mid/lategame (just like Metagross) and you cut its potential by using it as a lead, no matter how solid it may be. A suggestion of a hyper offensive lead would be nice or one that sets SR and does the same thing.

I like Rotom but it would fit in similarily to Gengar, taking Breloom's spot and still being offensive. This would make me weaker to Suicune but oh well. I do like Sub Rotom variants and I was extremely tempted to use them on this team, thoughts? Thanks for the rate Lorica.

@Calze: Hitmonlee hits harder than both mentioned leads. I am tempted to switch back to my Lucario though, since it was one of the best anti-leads I had ever used. To answer your question, I have no idea what the EVs do. I will switch it now. I was trying to remember what they were.

@Banned: Defensive Starmie can take a +1 SE. Offensive Starmie cannot.

@jesusfreak94: Rotom would actually help me set up Subs easier against the vast number of physical threats, being especially useful in conjunction with Machamp. What is that Flygon checking that my Heatran isn't?

I want Stealth Rock so I'ma prolly have to axe my current lead and use something else. If only Shaymin learned it. Then I would be in the green.

I will ponder on all this.

 

[jesusfreak94]

I've seen a slight rise in Jolly DDGyara, mainly due to the rise of Heatran, most notably ScarfTran. Jolly Gyara outruns Heatran, but not Flygon. AgiliGross threatens both, but only threatens Flygon with the rare Ice Punch and threatens Tran with the common Earthquake. I also recommended Flygon in case you wanted to run a supporter set on Tran. Otherwise Heatran>Flygon.

About Rotom-H, what I meant was that he would slow down the team if you were already running that SubGar set that you mentioned. If not, then Rotom can help.

As far as the lead goes, I did try to use a Shaymin anti-lead once, but people kept telling me that Celebi was better because it could run Stealth Rock. You could try out Celebi lead. It has great synergy with Heatran.

You don't seem to have liked my advice so far, so I'll just give it a rest. Good luck with your team though!

 

[Lorica]

There are a reasons to use the Rotom-H that I suggested that I forgot to mention in my rate. The main reason was because your only Ground- type switch-in is Breloom (which is why Flygon could prove to be troublesome), so using Rotom-H will make you not so reliant on Breloom to switch-into random Earthquakes. Breloom is not so bulky so bulky after all and with the abundance of Ground- moves, losing him make you more vulnerable to threats that utilize this type. Typing wise, Rotom-H synergises well with the rest of the team, so I would take it into consideration.

My rate was a bit rushed so I did not mention everything I wanted to. Lol, I didn't even notice Counter on Hitmonlee (not that it makes him such a stellar lead anyway).

 

[Blue Harvest]

You can drop Hitmonlee for a Swampert lead. It would give you Stealth Rocks as well as a check / counter for Agility Metagross, Scarf Flygon, Jolly Dragonite and give you a counter for DD TTar that doesn't naturally Substitute itself into KO range. Swampert gives you a real option against Heatran who can OHKO everything on your team with two moves except Starmie who can still be 2HKOed.

You can run 120 HP / 136 Speed / 252 Attack on Breloom with Seed Bomb over Leech Seed. Seed Bomb prevents Sub Gengar from destroying you (or at least killing Breloom) but also keeps you safe from from Sub Rotom and most Taunt Gyarados. 120 HP keeps Gliscor from breaking your Subs while outrunning some things I forgot.

Cool team!

 

[Sweep Freak]

Blue harvest is right. Exchange Hitmonlee with swampert.

 

[Fried Rhys]

except swampert sucks as a lead and leading with rachi or starmie would be more beneficial(not saying swampert isn't a good suggestion, just that it's a bad lead and lets EHs get up easily, which is huge on a team of sub abusers)

 

[Rhys29]

@jesusfreak94: Did not know Jolly Gyarados was becoming popular. Meteor Mash from Adamant LO Metagross tears a hole in Flygon, it's an assured OHKO with SR down, so it wouldn't need Ice Punch for Flygon (it carries it for Gliscor iirc).

I had been thinking about Celebi for a bit and it looks like a good alternative. As what Fried Rhys hit on though, it doesn't put as much pressure on the opposing lead. Hitmonlee worked well because enemies needed to attack it fast or they would be quickly overwhelmed. I like that factor for leads.

@Lorica: Which is why I am definitely considering a Ground immunity. Yay Counter. Doesn't make him great but it helps.

@BH: omghibh. Nice, when did you get the promotion? Props. I hate the Swampert lead though, I only use CB or Sub Swampert and I'm not feelin it for this team. I do agree Seed Bomb is looking to be a superior choice though. I also like the Gliscor not breaking my Substitute thing. Kthnxbabe.

 

[Blue Harvest]

HI

Anyone remember EFT?

I remember that the only game we ever played in any tier was an EFT that I won by sweeping with a Dragon Dance Dratini.

Blue Harvest: 1
Rhys29: 0

Hah. I would have kept playing but I sort of forgot the address of your site and I like having that one win over you.


Hmm, fair enough about not wanting Swampert. Hes a great defensive pivot that can reduce many of your weaknesses, but offensively he is crap and a huge Breloom lure.

Hey why not drop Hitmonlee for a Skarmory. He's ****ing annoying and makes a decent lead while giving you a ground immunity and source of arena hazards. Bulky Gyarados usually loses to repeated Brave Birds or to Breloom after Stealth Rocks are down. Spikes / SR can cripple Starmie's "counters" and bring things like Celebi and Shaymin into KO range. Spikes / Stealth Rocks could also dominate Swamperts / Kingdra / Vaporeon trying to take Heatran's Fire Blasts which would open up a sweep for Jirachi. Skarmory would turn this team into some sort of Spikes offense. I wouldn't worry too much about not having a spin blocker as your entire team badly damages Forretress bar Skarmory while Forretress himself is free setup for Machamp.

Ice Punch > Stone Edge on Machamp if you run Skarmory. SR and the rest of your team take on Gyarados well enough and Gliscor is one of the more reliable switch ins to Sub Machamp.. unless you run Ice Punch. Gyarados takes a decent hit from Dynamic Punch + Stealth Rocks.

You could drop HP Electric for Ancientpower and Dragon Pulse for Explosion, as Ancientpower kills Gyarados and Dragonite after a little previous damage and Explosion kills Suicune once it takes a few hits. Your set is fine though. If annoying is what you're after Explosion is a move you could look into.


Otherwise I have no idea. I've never used this team so my changes probably open some huge holes and I have been out of the game a while too.

ANYWAY GOOD LUCK!

 

[Rhys29]

lol you were so proud of that win. Back when Dratini was in OU. Because a tier with two Steel types didn't call for Dragons. But no excuses >.>

I like Skarmory. And I have the balla lead I had back in the day. I'll give it a shot. Though I wouldn't need a spin blocker, both Rotom and Gengar make nice Sub sets so it makes both more appealing. Honestly still hesitant about switching away from hyper offensive leads since switching out against leads like Aerodactyl can cost me early on.

I would drop DP if I couldn't outrun Adamant DD Kingdra. It also makes sure I have something to smash Flygon with if it's locked into Outrage or is a last stander. HP-Electric also hits Starmie (and weakened Vaporeon) hard enough to keep it away or revenge kill. I don't like Swampert being better against this set but getting those bulky Grounds out early makes my life easier. I still want Explosion but I like these options too.

omgsoliek do u have fb? pm if you do.

 

[calze6]

EFT is so similar to LC. Also, what do the HP EVs do on hitmonlee? Wouldn't placing them in speed just to max it be better?

 

[hobby]

EFT is so similar to LC.

Except that is really isn't, if you had played some matches you would know that.

Just stopping by to say that really, and to say hi. I do agree that the HP EVs on Hitmonlee are not really needed, but you are getting rid of it, so that point is moot. Wish I could help out more, but I am sort of out of it on the metagame (though I can still use Swampert lead successfully, so it can't be that bad, js).

 

[Blue Harvest]

lol you were so proud of that win. Back when Dratini was in OU. Because a tier with two Steel types didn't call for Dragons. But no excuses >.>

1-0

I like Skarmory. And I have the balla lead I had back in the day. I'll give it a shot. Though I wouldn't need a spin blocker, both Rotom and Gengar make nice Sub sets so it makes both more appealing. Honestly still hesitant about switching away from hyper offensive leads since switching out against leads like Aerodactyl can cost me early on.

You can always use Rockless or Explosionless Metagross. Nothing ****s up Aerodactyl like it.

Edit: No never mind. Too much ground weakness.

I would drop DP if I couldn't outrun Adamant DD Kingdra. It also makes sure I have something to smash Flygon with if it's locked into Outrage or is a last stander. HP-Electric also hits Starmie (and weakened Vaporeon) hard enough to keep it away or revenge kill. I don't like Swampert being better against this set but getting those bulky Grounds out early makes my life easier. I still want Explosion but I like these options too.

Fair enough.

omgsoliek do u have fb? pm if you do.

Nope! I got banned partially for making alts and partially for trolling the Farmville/town (whatever) by asking the message boards for dark skinned workers who would plow my fields for free. Apparently Farmtown is not slave labor friendly.

It was worth it. I think I still have a DeviantART lol, but I don't spend much time online any more.

 

[Rhys29]

EVs are set to outrun base 85's which is all Hitmonlee cares about. I could outrun max Speed Rotom but none do that with a Modest nature. The extra HP EVs just make Counter slightly more powerful. I'm going to look into Skarm, not necessarily switch it yet. Does look real nice tho... it has a perty mouth...

EFT was different than LC but similar in certain ways. EFT was ridiculously fun though. Hi hobby. We should grunge rage more.

That blows no fb. You were fun to chat with.