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The Thread of Concentrated Hatred for Anything New

treeco123

Well-Known Member
TeamJohtoChris said:
Cyrus = demented sociopath that belongs in a straight jacket (granted his schemes were brilliant however:D ).
that's what I like about him!
okay,you want completely different Pokemon games then...
32 year old man in team eclipse(a new team that wants to take over the world and makes Pokemon fight in wars)has to shoot everyone against his team and at the end he gets arrested.rated 18+
loads of people would buy that wouldn't they?
 

Evilchibi_pichu

Entertain me minions
I'm going to have to agree with you but disagree. I absolutely love going to any Gym I want but the fact that it leads to easier Gym battles is much more annoying. In D/P/Pt it's nice you can choose the 3rd or 4th Gym in your order but only two Gyms to do that takes a way from the experience of "your own Pokemon adventure".

I agree. While I would love to choose any order to challenge the Gyms, but I don't like the sacrifice that tends to come with it.

RBY/FRLG Pros:
The originals, established the Pokemon formula
Best in-game key characters

I think the word you meant is "popular" not "key". Gen 1 definitely made a lot of characters popular and tend to be the most memorable. Key characters are characters that have an overall importance to the storyline. But, in Pokemon, no characters are key characters, excluding the heroes/heroines.
 
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Saph

Rapscallion
How are HG/SS's graphics better than D/P/Pt, Saph? I actually see no difference for them, and, with enough people who agree with me, it makes your opinion irrelevant. Give us a good example, and I'll change my opinion to be like yours.
You don't see a difference? Not even the higher amount of detail? Just look at a screenshot of DP compared to HGSS.

You said Gen 4 took Gen 2 and tried to do it better. You said Gen 2 were the original sequels but Gen 4 failed in this regard. That reads as if you were claiming that Gen 4 was somehow linked/a continuation of Gen 2.
Only if you're an idiot. You seem to have missed my point where I said GSC were the only true sequels (in terms of continuing the story), and my comment on DPPt taking GSC and trying to do it better was about the features and Pokemon introduced, not the storyline.

Then care explaining what you mean by "successful"?
Do I have to spell it out for you? DPPt weren't as successful in improving the franchise as GSC and RSE were, in my opinion.

You can't base opinion on fact. DPPt and HGSS had significant improvements so you can't say they didn't.
1. I'm not talking about HGSS, which is a perfectly good game, 2. I can say that while DPPt brought in improvements (several of which I said were great improvements in my original post), I can say that they weren't as good improvements for my own personal playing experience as other generations. Playing experience being subjective.

OK, Professor Oak - how is he "better" than any of the other region professors, speaking game-wise?
Well in GSC Prof. Elm was completely upstaged by him (gave you the Pokedex, rated your Pokedex etc). Prof. Birch didn't do anything after you saved him from Poochyena/Zigzagoon. Prof. Rowan was good actually, I'd say he was the second best professor. But Prof. Oak has been in all 4 generations, so naturally he has the most development. But once again, my opinion, you don't have to agree.

Blue - your standard rival. He may have been one of the better rivals out there, but he's still a rival, something all the games have, so as a character, he may be cooler/stronger but not any more important than the other rivals.
You're putting words into my mouth again, you're reading things that aren't there. When did I say he was more important?

Gym Leaders and Elite 4 - None of the other games have them, right?
Explain to me how my opinion that RBY's E4 characters were better than others means that I somehow believe other games just plain don't have an E4?

Yes, it's a factor, but the fault is the game's because the game didn't have it. There's no one else to blame.
You're right, it's the games fault they can't travel through time. It has nothing to do with you being pedantic.

You said "only true sequel" implying that the others were sequels but weren't sequels through and through but now I assume you mean that you rank Gen 2 highly because it was the only sequel in the Pokemon games?
I don't see what is so hard to understand. I like GSC because it continued the RBY storyline. All the other games, while still adding things to the timeline, are stand alone adventures with no real connection to the previous. So GSC is unique in that respect. I rate it highly in the same way I rate all the Pokemon games highly, but as Pokemon games they come third out of four (again, in my opinion. I have to repeat that because if I don't you'll ask me for graphs and sales charts or something)

Sure, I'd have loved some more touch screen action, but its absence, in no way, detracts from the actual gameplay. HGSS came after it, so they obviously would have improved some aspects then. No Pokemon main series game has relied on the stylus and just because it's on the DS doesn't mean it must do so or it's a bad game.
Look. The DS has touch screen capabilities. The games didn't use them effectively. I see that as a failing.



OK, so apparently DPPt's graphics are worse than the thinly-detailed, black and white and in-battle blurry graphics of RBY.
If you put it like that I sound like an idiot, but when you put it like that it means you're an idiot. Could you just, for a minute, READ what I type? RBY, as GB games, looked good enough to me. DPPt as DS games, did not look good to me. HGSS, however, did! But how can this be? I mean, technology dictates quality, and aesthetics exists in a vacuum, right? Wrong! By judging things based on CONTEXT, I can evaluate things based on their own merits!
I admit the colour scheme appeared a bit dark to me which I didn't like, but the graphics don't look bad aesthetically.
Why are you allowed to say that you didn't like the dark colour scheme, but I'm not allowed to say pretty much the same thing?
General graphics and sprites are 99% of the time better than Gen 3.
In. Your. Opinion.
The 3D may not be perfect, but this is the DS and this is Pokemon.
And in Diamond and Pearl, the 3D models slowed the game down considerably, affecting my playing experience.
The semi-3D is a step up from the 2D of the GBA.
Have I ever disagreed with this?
And lack of detail? Surely, you jest.
No. Compare Jubilife City in DP to Goldenrod City in HGSS.

And yes, I agree, HGSS looks better, but doesn't change the fact that DPPt was good as well (though it had its problems).
So what are you arguing for?

OK, they may have looked good for their times, but if you say "DPPt had the worst graphics", you're comparing them to the other games. And when you do that, DPPt graphics are superior to all the previous gens. I think that RSE were good-looking and GBA games and even DPPt and HGSS were good-looking DS games, but I guess that's a matter of opinion.
So you don't understand context.

Look. I see what you're doing here. You're just having a knee-jerk reaction against any criticism of the newer games. Which I understand, as there are a lot of people here who will blindly defend RBYGSC while relentlessly bashing RSEDPPt. But I'm not one of those people. My original post was simply how I personally rate the games. Which, by the way, as it seems you didn't notice, goes RSE, RBY, GSC then DPPt. Which doesn't show any preference for the older games, even if DPPt happens to be last. And just because DPPt is my least favourite doesn't mean I think it's awful.

Focus your efforts on people who actually disagree with you.
 

Dark Eevee

Well-Known Member
You don't see a difference? Not even the higher amount of detail? Just look at a screenshot of DP compared to HGSS.
So what a little more detail, they still look the same.
Do I have to spell it out for you? DPPt weren't as successful in improving the franchise as GSC and RSE were, in my opinion.
Why?
Well in GSC Prof. Elm was completely upstaged by him (gave you the Pokedex, rated your Pokedex etc). Prof. Birch didn't do anything after you saved him from Poochyena/Zigzagoon. Prof. Rowan was good actually, I'd say he was the second best professor. But Prof. Oak has been in all 4 generations, so naturally he has the most development. But once again, my opinion, you don't have to agree.
Who cares?
Look. The DS has touch screen capabilities. The games didn't use them effectively. I see that as a failing.
Dude, sometimes it takes a while to get something right.
 

Saph

Rapscallion
I refuse to comment anymore, some people clearly care too much about how I personally rate the games. The answer to all questions? Because that's how I feel about it.
 

Dark Eevee

Well-Known Member
I refuse to comment anymore, some people clearly care too much about how I personally rate the games. The answer to all questions? Because that's how I feel about it.

Well that's what happens when you post that kind of oppinion on this kind of thread.
 

Indragon

Back in the USSR
Only if you're an idiot. You seem to have missed my point where I said GSC were the only true sequels (in terms of continuing the story), and my comment on DPPt taking GSC and trying to do it better was about the features and Pokemon introduced, not the storyline.

DPPt was a follow-up from 3rd gen, not the second. Sure, it might have had the odd feature of gen 2 which wasn't there in gen 3 but mostly it consisted of improved gen 3 features. And the features which were improved and made better, they didn't fail. As for the Pokemon, they aren't any more Johto than any other gen.

Do I have to spell it out for you? DPPt weren't as successful in improving the franchise as GSC and RSE were, in my opinion.

You could give us some facts to back up that opinion. DPPt has quite obviously improved and popularised the franchise significantly whatever you may think of GSC and RSE.

Well in GSC Prof. Elm was completely upstaged by him (gave you the Pokedex, rated your Pokedex etc). Prof. Birch didn't do anything after you saved him from Poochyena/Zigzagoon. Prof. Rowan was good actually, I'd say he was the second best professor. But Prof. Oak has been in all 4 generations, so naturally he has the most development. But once again, my opinion, you don't have to agree.

I'll leave this at opinion, but you'll want to know that despite showing up in more gens and being the earliest professor, Oak's development is as piddling as ever.

You're putting words into my mouth again, you're reading things that aren't there. When did I say he was more important?

OK, you said best key characters. Just opinion again but w/e. Others may consider Silver to be better, but they're all just rivals.

Explain to me how my opinion that RBY's E4 characters were better than others means that I somehow believe other games just plain don't have an E4?

Fine, once more your opinion of RBY having the best stuff. There's nothing much to be said here apart from the fact that nothing apart from your opinion makes RBY's E4 the best. If you'd said favourite instead of best in your first post, it would've made more sense.

You're right, it's the games fault they can't travel through time. It has nothing to do with you being pedantic.

If you're going to compare all the gens, the fact remains that RBY didn't have it and whichever way you look at it, it's still a shortcoming of the game itself. Just because the games came first isn't an excuse for such a shortcoming to be overlooked. So, if it's basic, it might be expected because of when it was released, but it's still the games fault - something which was rectified later and hence, makes those games be better with regards to that fault.

I don't see what is so hard to understand. I like GSC because it continued the RBY storyline. All the other games, while still adding things to the timeline, are stand alone adventures with no real connection to the previous. So GSC is unique in that respect. I rate it highly in the same way I rate all the Pokemon games highly, but as Pokemon games they come third out of four (again, in my opinion. I have to repeat that because if I don't you'll ask me for graphs and sales charts or something)

Yeah, I understood that sequel part in my last post.

Look. The DS has touch screen capabilities. The games didn't use them effectively. I see that as a failing.

They did, but they were optional. I consider it a failing as well, but since it doesn't matter too much to the gameplay, it's not much of an issue. HGSS was better, yeah, but very rarely does it force you to use the stylus contrary to something like Ninja Gaiden which is stylus-based. Pokemon games don't need it, so it's not much of a problem like I said.

If you put it like that I sound like an idiot, but when you put it like that it means you're an idiot. Could you just, for a minute, READ what I type? RBY, as GB games, looked good enough to me. DPPt as DS games, did not look good to me. HGSS, however, did! But how can this be? I mean, technology dictates quality, and aesthetics exists in a vacuum, right? Wrong! By judging things based on CONTEXT, I can evaluate things based on their own merits!

And once more, if you take them as a whole for comparison and look at the graphics without a bias on which system they're for, DPPt's graphics are better than all the preceding ones. You can say "in my opinion, RBY looked good for GB games while DPPt didn't for the DS", but you can't say that RBY had better graphics than DPPt. Now looking at their graphics, simply just as art or just as pixels, can you seriously tell me RBY's black and white stuff is better than DPPt's?

Why are you allowed to say that you didn't like the dark colour scheme, but I'm not allowed to say pretty much the same thing?

Erm...when did I say you weren't allowed to say that DPPt didn't have the best colour scheme? Shockingly enough, I was just expressing my agreement with you here.

However, that still doesn't make DPPt's graphics worse than the likes of RBY and GSC.

In. Your. Opinion.

This point isn't all that opinionated as you might think. Just look up sprites from RBY, GSC and RSE and compare them to the one's from DPPt.

And in Diamond and Pearl, the 3D models slowed the game down considerably, affecting my playing experience.

Well, it didn't slow down Diamond when I played it, so I don't really know what to say.

Have I ever disagreed with this?

Considering you said DPPt had the worst graphics ever, yes you have.

No. Compare Jubilife City in DP to Goldenrod City in HGSS.

Or compare Jubilife to Saffron in RBY or Goldenrod in GSC.

So what are you arguing for?

The fact that HGSS graphics being better than DPPt don't automatically make the latter's the worst among all the games.

So you don't understand context.

I don't see you using context but more of grouping all the graphics and calling DPPt's the worst. And I already addressed this issue somewhere above.
 

Gentleman

Sitting on Horsea
I refuse to comment anymore, some people clearly care too much about how I personally rate the games. The answer to all questions? Because that's how I feel about it.


The interesting thing is that going out and making your opinion public means you have just basically opened it to discussion. Yelling out "I hate x" in a crowd is going to get somebody yelling back at you. The only place you won't find people disagreeing with your personal opinion is in your head, so if you're not cool with people disagreeing...

Care to disagree?
 

Saph

Rapscallion
The interesting thing is that going out and making your opinion public means you have just basically opened it to discussion. Yelling out "I hate x" in a crowd is going to get somebody yelling back at you. The only place you won't find people disagreeing with your personal opinion is in your head, so if you're not cool with people disagreeing...

Care to disagree?

1. I never yelled out that I hated anything, I simply listed the Pokemon games in the order I liked them in, with equal pros and cons for each.

2. The amount of times I said that this is my opinion only would seem to imply that people are free to disagree, wouldn't you think?

But instead of people disagreeing I got people telling me that I'm WRONG, my opinions were criticised, attacked AND misinterpreted. What happened there wasn't a discussion, it was just retaliation because some people couldn't 'agree to disagree'. So don't tell me I'm the one being intolerant here.
 

Gentleman

Sitting on Horsea
1. I never yelled out that I hated anything, I simply listed the Pokemon games in the order I liked them in, with equal pros and cons for each.

You never yelled it out in a crowd either, but whatever!

2. The amount of times I said that this is my opinion only would seem to imply that people are free to disagree, wouldn't you think?

But instead of people disagreeing I got people telling me that I'm WRONG, my opinions were criticised, attacked AND misinterpreted. What happened there wasn't a discussion, it was just retaliation because some people couldn't 'agree to disagree'. So don't tell me I'm the one being intolerant here.

Semantics. The point is they disagreed with your opinion. Harshness? Debatable, I guess. You didn't seem all that accommodating either.

Just saying. You invite people to say things when you say something yourself.

But, back on track, I always sort of felt the newer games don't quite have a charm to them like the older ones. It's just sort of a feel, maybe, partially because of looking back on something with fond memories (nostalgia, in other words), and partially because the lack of a focused storyline made it feel like you were on your own adventure. Y'know?
 

Dattebayo

Banned

Saph

Rapscallion
Gentleman said:
Semantics. The point is they disagreed with your opinion. Harshness? Debatable, I guess. You didn't seem all that accommodating either.

Just saying. You invite people to say things when you say something yourself
I didn't seem accommodating because I was told my opinion was wrong. That tends to cause people to get angry. And yes, while people are free to comment on my original post, I wasn't being antagonistic but people felt the need to respond in an antagonistic fashion, which is what you call an inappropriate response. For an example, see the quote below.

Like Saph, right?
The Nostalgia Filter is defined as being a preference for older installments in a series, simply because they were released when you were younger.

My preference for the generations go 3rd, 1st, 2nd then 4th. This clearly demonstrates that when the games were released has no bearing on my preference for them, even if the newest generation happens to be last.

So no, I don't qualify for the Nostalgia Filter.

EDIT: I also count having a conversation about a user as if he wasn't there to be an attack, albeit a childish, passive-aggressive one.
 

BlitzBlast

Busy with School
Meh?

Who says DPPt didn't use the touch screen well?

You had the Poketch there, did the Pokemon contest work there, and most importantly used it in the Underground and in battle.

There was also the Platinum Poke Plaza, but yeah, nobody cares about that.
 

Indragon

Back in the USSR
@Gentleman: The newer games had more of a storyline while the older ones were the ones where you felt like being on your own adventure imo.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
Meh?

Who says DPPt didn't use the touch screen well?

You had the Poketch there, did the Pokemon contest work there, and most importantly used it in the Underground and in battle.

There was also the Platinum Poke Plaza, but yeah, nobody cares about that.

While touch screen use is something I like about HG/SS, D/P/Plat had one feature I really liked: The ability to mass-move several Pokemon at once while in the PC. That can't be done in HG/SS.
 

Typhlosion Trainer

Fire Trainer
While touch screen use is something I like about HG/SS, D/P/Plat had one feature I really liked: The ability to mass-move several Pokemon at once while in the PC. That can't be done in HG/SS.

I have to agree with you there. The ability to move pokemon easily in the PC in DPPt was something I liked as well.
 
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