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The Traitorous Battle Royal! (1199)

Evstike

We lost...
Well, Ash hadn't been denied entry into a Project Mew mission/challenge before this episode. As for the 2nd part, did anyone mention in the episode what Asahi was going to do?
While it's understandable that being denied entry when he was allowed into all the other missions would come as a surprise, Goh isn't allowed to participate in his PWC matches so I don't get why he was so disappointed about not being able to insert himself into Goh's goal. He clearly saw Asahi release the Pokemon and what she was doing should have been very obvious yet he still expressed frustration and digust(?) after she explained how she did it for the purpose of testing them for the skills required to be a Chaser. The way it was presented made it seem like Ash didn't trust Goh enough to be capable of handling it and I don't think that was the intention which is why I have issues with the scene. From here on out, not everything will come easy and Ash of everyone should know this very well.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus is a masterpiece & SV will be too!
The issue is that the struggles don't feel as impactful. Especially if he is still earning multiple tokens even if he failed the mission. Clearly they are not gonna give him a big loss because they started and develop project mew late in the series and there is no time
That's honestly subjective, to me they felt pretty impactful, especially his desperation in today's episode. Like I stated earlier as to why him getting zero tokens would be illogical, I'm so happy they have had PM constantly be a struggle for him and when he did succeed he did it off his own accord and skills
 

Speed22

Well-Known Member
While it's understandable that being denied entry when he was allowed into all the other missions would come as a surprise, Goh isn't allowed to participate in his PWC matches so I don't get why he was so disappointed about not being able to insert himself into Goh's goal. He clearly saw Asahi release the Pokemon and what she was doing should have been very obvious yet he still expressed frustration and digust(?) after she explained how she did it for the purpose of testing them for the skills required to be a Chaser. The way it was presented made it seem like Ash didn't trust Goh enough to be capable of handling it and I don't think was the intention which is why I have issues with the scene. From here on out, not everything will come easy and Ash of everyone should know this very well.
Imagine if that leads to Ash being the one who's suspicious of an organisation for once, lol. All jokes aside, it did appear to be weird, but it's not the weirdest thing the writers have done this series.
 

Gingertail24

Well-Known Member
That's honestly subjective, to me they felt pretty impactful, especially his desperation in today's episode. Like I stated earlier as to why him getting zero tokens would be illogical, I'm so happy they have had PM constantly be a struggle for him and when he did succeed he did it off his own accord and skills
I understand your point. But to me it just feels like dawn messing up on a contest but still be rewarded a ribbon. And I'm only saying this because I agree that goh reaching Articuno, and being the second runner up is warranted for tokens. Having none would be unfair

But I'm saying that the failures should of occured before he is basically close to the end goal of PM. I feel that they are just giving him tokens is because the show is about to end. They don't have time for goh to lose and be behind. Same reason why ash isn't gonna lose a M8 match.

They should of made him lose tokens early on, not when he is two missions away from being a chaser. It just feels like too little to late by this point. I mean sure it's better than nothing, but still.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus is a masterpiece & SV will be too!
I understand your point. But to me it just feels like dawn messing up on a contest but still be rewarded a ribbon. And I'm only saying this because I agree that goh reaching Articuno, and being the second runner up is warranted for tokens. Having none would be unfair

But I'm saying that the failures should of occured before he is basically close to the end goal of PM. I feel that they are just giving him tokens is because the show is about to end. They don't have time for goh to lose and be behind. Same reason why ash isn't gonna lose a M8 match.

They should of made him lose tokens early on, not when he is two missions away from being a chaser. It just feels like too little to late by this point. I mean sure it's better than nothing, but still.
The thing is tokens and ribbons aren't really the same, the ribbons are the be-it-all basically, while tokens are awarded based on performance, even if one didn't succeed they'll get tokens if they showed skill. The more skill you have, the more tokens. It's a different reward/ranking system than contests so equating the two is a false equivalence in my eyes
We saw Goh get clowned on and struggle in the first PM episode, we see him almost fail the A. Ninetales episode, he needed to perform well and actually succeed in the next 2 low tier PM missions to show progression from that, before the high tier missions start giving him trouble and almost make him lose, until he finally pulls through
I agree with you more PM episodes would have been perfect to flesh it out more and PM should have begun around ep50 rather than in the seventies, but I do think the arc was still well done in making Goh struggle to get to the position
 

Gingertail24

Well-Known Member
The thing is tokens and ribbons aren't really the same, the ribbons are the be-it-all basically, while tokens are awarded based on performance, even if one didn't succeed they'll get tokens if they showed skill. The more skill you have, the more tokens. It's a different reward/ranking system than contests so equating the two is a false equivalence in my eyes
We saw Goh get clowned on and struggle in the first PM episode, we see him almost fail the A. Ninetales episode, he needed to perform well and actually succeed in the next 2 low tier PM missions to show progression from that, before the high tier missions start giving him trouble and almost make him lose, until he finally pulls through
I agree with you more PM episodes would have been perfect to flesh it out more and PM should have begun around ep50 rather than in the seventies, but I do think the arc was still well done in making Goh struggle to get to the position
The contest wasn't supposed to be a one to one comparison. More to just get my point across. But yeah I could of used a better example, you got me there

I'm not denying that goh doesn't struggle. My problem is that, at the end of the day, goh doesn't really fail. For example, I think the contest example actually works for this lol. Imagine if dawn struggle in the beginning of her contest arc had her not lose a single contest. Yeah she struggled, but she was always rewarded a ribbon. (Ik it's different from PM, but that's not my point). It wouldn't be as impactful, because at the end of the day, she still got what she wanted, a ribbon

Or if Serena won a key after fennekin tripped. Would the crying scene really be effective if she still got a princess key? Of course not. Because her struggle had bigger consequences and impact. Major ones.

Yes goh struggle. But at the end of the day, of he is still rewarded tokens, multiple ones in fact, it just doesn't feel like he really had a setback. It doesn't feel that much impactful

Or imagine if Ash struggle with the bond thing with Greninja. But instead of losing the battle to Sawyer and the ice gym leader (forgot his name), he won. Would it really feel impactful? No, because ash still won the battle. That's my issue with Goh still getting tokens. But by this point the show can't do that because it's too late. So we're just gonna keep seeing goh win them even if he screws up majorrly
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus is a masterpiece & SV will be too!
The contest wasn't supposed to be a one to one comparison. More to just get my point across. But yeah I could of used a better example, you got me there

I'm not denying that goh doesn't struggle. My problem is that, at the end of the day, goh doesn't really fail. For example, I think the contest example actually works for this lol. Imagine if dawn struggle in the beginning of her contest arc had her not lose a single contest. Yeah she struggled, but she was always rewarded a ribbon. (Ik it's different from PM, but that's not my point). It wouldn't be as impactful, because at the end of the day, she still got what she wanted, a ribbon

Or if Serena won a key after fennekin tripped. Would the crying scene really be effective if she still got a princess key? Of course not. Because her struggle had bigger consequences and impact. Major ones.

Yes goh struggle. But at the end of the day, of he is still rewarded tokens, multiple ones in fact, it just doesn't feel like he really had a setback. It doesn't feel that much impactful

Or imagine if Ash struggle with the bond thing with Greninja. But instead of losing the battle to Sawyer and the ice gym leader (forgot his name), he won. Would it really feel impactful? No, because ash still won the battle. That's my issue with Goh still getting tokens. But by this point the show can't do that because it's too late. So we're just gonna keep seeing goh win them even if he screws up majorrly
Well like I said, it's subjective. For me Goh is still failing and has failed, him getting tokens for me atleast doesn't really change that or negate the impact like it might do for others
PM is just vastly different from other goals, and I kinda like the token system. I do hope trial missions are continued as a goal in the next series
 

Gingertail24

Well-Known Member
Well like I said, it's subjective. For me Goh is still failing and has failed, him getting tokens for me atleast doesn't really change that or negate the impact like it might do for others
PM is just vastly different from other goals, and I kinda like the token system. I do hope trial missions are continued as a goal in the next series
For goh? I don't see him staying. For another character, sure but if it has a major revamp, like contest did when may did vs when dawn did it
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus is a masterpiece & SV will be too!
For goh? I don't see him staying. For another character, sure but if it has a major revamp, like contest did when may did vs when dawn did it
Yeah I think it's likely we get a new companion as well, but I really want trial missions to stay even if they are adjusted a bit. It's just a fun concept with limitless potential that makes the adventuring aspect of the series fun and leads to fun episodes
 

Gingertail24

Well-Known Member
Yeah I think it's likely we get a new companion as well, but I really want trial missions to stay even if they are adjusted a bit. It's just a fun concept with limitless potential that makes the adventuring aspect of the series fun and leads to fun episodes
I agree. While I have my issues with PM. Definitely one of the more unique goals we had since for a long time

I just hope they give it to a female companion
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
This episode was fine. Pretty mediocre. It's a bit dumb how Inteleon pretty much OHKO'd a few opponents with either Mud Shot or Snipe Shot.

I did like how Goh and Horace's personalities complimented each other and they ended up being the last two challengers. This is where Goh's inspiring speech to Horace backfired and he ended up losing.

It makes sense for the Top 3 to get 3, 2, 1 tokens respectively as there was quite a few participants so these tokens don't necessarily feel like "participation" tokens as I saw some people exclaiming. Goh deserved those two tokens for 2nd place.

I like that they finally had Ash stay behind as he should have from the beginning. I think it would have been nice to see a conversation between Ash and Danika about how it's a shame that someone who made it into the Masters Eight isn't participating in Project Mew as he could have been a great member to have.
 

Gingertail24

Well-Known Member
This episode was fine. Pretty mediocre. It's a bit dumb how Inteleon pretty much OHKO'd a few opponents with either Mud Shot or Snipe Shot.

I did like how Goh and Horace's personalities complimented each other and they ended up being the last two challengers. This is where Goh's inspiring speech to Horace backfired and he ended up losing.

It makes sense for the Top 3 to get 3, 2, 1 tokens respectively as there was quite a few participants so these tokens don't necessarily feel like "participation" tokens as I saw some people exclaiming. Goh deserved those two tokens for 2nd place.

I like that they finally had Ash stay behind as he should have from the beginning. I think it would have been nice to see a conversation between Ash and Danika about how it's a shame that someone who made it into the Masters Eight isn't participating in Project Mew as he could have been a great member to have.
It really does bother me that a project that claims to fund mew , the ancestor of all Pokemon and one of the most rare ones, and the only notable person in it is just Gary and two urshifu trainers. You think super strong and famous trainers would jump at this opportunity

Heck you think other professors, like oak, would want to be part of it too. Not just some random professor we never heard of
 

DayQuil95

Well-Known Member
I like that they finally had Ash stay behind as he should have from the beginning. I think it would have been nice to see a conversation between Ash and Danika about how it's a shame that someone who made it into the Masters Eight isn't participating in Project Mew as he could have been a great member to have.
That's something really funny tbh like he's among the 8 strongest trainers in the world, and they don't even consider recruiting him or asking him if he's interested?
 

BobbbidyBob

Well-Known Member
This mission was messed up, which encourages the idea that maybe project Mew is indeed evil. In the end Goh or Tokio were forced to beat each other to survive and win tokens, just because it was friendly and sugar coated doesn’t change the cold facts and the idea behind the mission.

Also I was hoping for Tokio to say something like “you are more important to me than my dream Goh” lol
 

MartínK

Well-Known Member
After it had taken a Discharge and Dark Pulse to the face, yes

To be fair, Gardevoir was more damaged that Intelleon, took a Phantom Force, Sucker Punch and Discharge, besides Intelleon was healed ny Heal Pulse.

Goh speech to Tokio and Ash won't be able to participate was the best of the episode.

Ps: He wanna battle Gary, don't make me laugh kid.
 

British Soul

Top Hat Regulator
Actually an essay time:
I liked how the generic challengers all wore outfits that show some correlation to the pokemon they were using, even the two dill-holes with Vikavolt and Liepard, elements of their outfits somewhat match their pokemon. Speaking of Liepard, it was on-brand for its trainer to portray Liepard's traits to her advantage and in that particular exchange, it was interesting that in contrast to the raid battle, Go and Tokio's character traits had a different outcome to the situation at hand.
Go encouraging Tokio to not give up was certainly impactful. He knows he's doing it is a detriment to his own chances, but at the same time he also wants to see his friend continue forward with his dream. Go seemed to take the loss well, of course he was frustrated as he's facing a struggle to get to the top 3, but at the same time, he's come so far in terms of his development throughout the series.
One other detail I do want to bring up is at the end Tsurugi mentioned that the rainy season is ending sooner than expected, this is rather interesting as IRL, the global climate has been changing and I like that this is reflected in the series, there are no absolutes or certainties when it comes to the weather.
And finally, (I feel like I'm on the news here) I feel that this episode could've been Ash-less tbph with how Asahi told him to stay put on the outside of the ship. Yes, he did interact with her during the mission, but he didn't do much else as it was a Go episode after all.
 

jjliang

Well-Known Member
Is Horace's Gardevoir going to sound more or less like a Gardevoir in the dub? Do you think there should be an episode featuring a Gardevoir and a Gallade both appearing at the same time?
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
("Bang. Bang. Bang-bang. Finger-bang-bang. Bang-bang-bang. I'm gonna finger bang-bang you into my life....") :p

Not a bad episode, it's largely just a gimmicky battle royal, but a cool competition.

I like how it does bother to up the game as it goes along. We first get Inteleon just one shot KOing everything in sight, to a more risky team effort, to the neatly setup battle in the water against the two antagonistic rivals. Oh and hey they're using a healing Pokemon properly in the show at last. Shame the SM battle royal didn't do more like this (though I get that one had to juggle a ton more characters).

Like some have said, it's a shame these guys only appeared now, neat to have another rival like Guzma whose a threat because they fight dirty but technically don't break the rules, compared to pitiful Dick Dastardly cheaters like Team Rocket or offstage bullies like Harley whose antics probably should have got penalties.

Also love how the added difficulty by the officials consists of tons of the cutest Pokemon running around causing hellfire. XD

While the 'trechery' was predictably a villain and not a play off the main lot, I like they still discuss pragmatism in goals, with Horace's sweeter niave outlook going against Goh's more cynical logical one, with different points one or the other is right (Goh's teamwork folly is even called back to). The villains also do not call off the in-rank tension here either, as Goh makes clear, they do HAVE to fight. Said fight is admitedly very quick, but the dynamic was good.
 
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