The Unpopular Opinions Thread

[Blastmaster]

Honestly, from what I know about SM, XY Ash probably would stomp the Alola League... because he specifically had a Pokemon with story-breaker power on his team. That's one of the biggest problems about XY in hindsight: everything about that series is tailored to make Ash look cool. It's to the point where they flat-out cannot have him look bad unless it's for a "serious" story moment. That's not how you write a protagonist.

I can't say for sure, but I think that's also what people mean when they call him unemotive. He's not a literal robot, but he doesn't act like a flawed human being. All of his flaws in XY are always portrayed as either "cute" (his denseness),"cool/heroic" (his impulsiveness), or "kind" (his constant praise of Clemont's inventions). The literal one time he's written in a negative light, it's seen as out-of-character and that he needs to snap back to being awesome. The writers shouldn't be afraid to have their main characters act stupid sometimes. XY is the only series where they are.

edit: I should add, obviously it's also important not to have your characters be too stupid. It's about finding a balance.

 

[AznKei]

Honestly, from what I know about SM, XY Ash probably would stomp the Alola League... because he specifically had a Pokemon with story-breaker power on his team.

Nah, the writers are going to make sure that Ash-Greninja takes the fall, regardless the fan reaction of such outcomes and its lore would ended up flushed.

 

[J.Agera]

Honestly, from what I know about SM, XY Ash probably would stomp the Alola League... because he specifically had a Pokemon with story-breaker power on his team. That's one of the biggest problems about XY in hindsight: everything about that series is tailored to make Ash look cool. It's too the point where they flat-out cannot have him look bad unless it's for a "serious" story moment. That's not how you write a protagonist.

I can't say for sure, but I think that's also what people mean when they call him unemotive. He's not a literal robot, but he doesn't act like a flawed human being. All of his flaws in XY are always portrayed as either "cute" (his denseness),"cool/heroic" (his impulsiveness), or "kind" (his constant praise of Clemont's inventions). The literal one time he's written in a negative light, it's seen as out-of-character and that he needs to snap back to being awesome. The writers shouldn't be afraid to have their main characters act stupid sometimes. XY is the only series where they are.

He is the same Ash that went through all of the trouble throughout OG to DP ( sigh let's include BW), he should be a veteran trainer by now and honestly that's really how he should be written, so there was nothing wrong with XY Ash in that respect imo.
Also XY Ash's Greninja arc showed Ash's overconfidence due to his dominance in the show(he also became dependent on Ash Greninja too much) and that arc clearly strengthed bond between him and Greninja, Serena.
And it had nothing to do with the plot directly, it was for the characters.
Also he also lost to the first gym leader in Kalos which made him realise he needed to step the f up after his terrible performance in Unova and none of these moments had anything to do with the plot directly.
You are basically saying that you want him to remain stagnant?

 

[Blastmaster]

He is the same Ash that went through all of the trouble throughout OG to DP ( sigh let's include BW), he should be a veteran trainer by now and honestly that's really how he should be written, so there was nothing wrong with XY Ash in that respect imo.
Also XY Ash's Greninja arc showed Ash's overconfidence due to his dominance in the show(he also became dependent on Ash Greninja too much) and that arc clearly strengthed bond between him and Greninja, Serena.
And it had nothing to do with the plot directly, it was for the characters.
Also he also lost to the first gym leader in Kalos which made him realise he needed to step the f up after his terrible performance in Unova and none of these moments had anything to do with the plot directly.
You are basically saying that you want him to remain stagnant?

Ash should be a veteran, but there's a difference between a veteran and an idol. Ash is a veteran in AG and DP, obviously much more skilled than he was at the beginning but still clearly with a lot to learn. Ash is an idol in XY. He's so crazy amazing in that series that he practically has nothing to learn. Even the goddamn Champion looks up to him.

Also, the Ash-Greninja arc was the main plot of XYZ. Everything about it was taken seriously. And ftr, I think it was mostly written well. But again, the problem I have with XY Ash is that he can never look bad unless it's specifically relevant to the plot. Every other series lets Ash screw up because that's what humans do sometimes.

You can progress a character while still keeping them human. DP Ash was the most skilled Ash at the time, but still very much flawed. He still had a temper. He was still impatient. He was still falling down the stairs out of recklessness in the last episode. Things like that make all the difference.

 

[Leonhart]

I don't think that Satoshi was considered an idol during XY. He gained some fame after the Prism Tower fiasco, but it's not like he was on the same level as Elle [who was truly a Kalos idol since she was practically a celebrity].

 

[J.Agera]

Ash should be a veteran, but there's a difference between a veteran and an idol. Ash is a veteran in AG and DP, obviously much more skilled than he was at the beginning but still clearly with a lot to learn. Ash is an idol in XY. He's so crazy amazing in that series that he practically has nothing to learn. Even the goddamn Champion looks up to him.

Also, the Ash-Greninja arc was the main plot of XYZ. Everything about it was taken seriously. And ftr, I think it was mostly written well. But again, the problem I have with XY Ash is that he can never look bad unless it's specifically relevant to the plot. Every other series lets Ash screw up because that's what humans do sometimes.

You can progress a character while still keeping them human. DP Ash was the most skilled Ash at the time, but still very much flawed. He still had a temper. He was still impatient. He was still falling down the stairs out of recklessness in the last episode. Things like that make all the difference.

Didn't XY Ash fall down the stairs too when he arrived in Kalos?
He was actually scared in the two episodes about haunted mansions.
He also lost his first gym battle.
There was no reason for him to be trigerred in the XY series(except that Greninja arc).
For the plot or not, the Greninja arc still showed his overconfidence and over dependency which are humane flaws.
He also sucked at dancing and Bonnie laughed at him. He was also dense af which could be seen as another flaw, depends on the viewer.
All in all there are minor moments all over the series.
He was an inspiration to Serena and Clemont and idol like figure to Sawyer only. Diantha respected him because he gave her a good battle, but telling that she looked up to him is taking it too far.
Anything cool he did in the series didn't feel out of character either as it was something he would do and the viewer knows that.
Calling him "crazy amazing" is an exaggeration too.
Moreover I have seen amazingly characters who have flaws that matter only to the plot. Eg. Lelouch.
And that's not even the case with XY Ash.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

Since the discussion is on XY ash, i think he was well written but the only problem i had with him was that his behaviour was way too much like of a shonen hero, you know the heroes who have habit of babbling age old dialogues about never giving up and all that which s cliche, i wish he had some sassiness and cockiness of OS and AG when he used to roast people left and right, he would have become perfect fine character imo.

 

[MockingJ]

I thought that Ash was a pain in the ass during Kalos. Yeah he was a great battler there and he wasn't a complete dummy like he was in Unova, but the producers treated him like a messiah in Kalos and that was evident the most when it came to his pals and how they responded to every little thing Ash did. I can't even remember his Kalos pals getting upset at him.

 

[Blastmaster]

Didn't XY Ash fall down the stairs too when he arrived in Kalos?
He was actually scared in the two episodes about haunted mansions.
He also lost his first gym battle.

I forgot to bring that up, but I actually give the first episode of XY credit because it's like the only instance of Ash doing something dumb and being punished for being dumb. Once he actually meets his friends, that all comes to an end. Also, being scared in a haunted mansion isn't a flaw lol

There was no reason for him to be trigerred in the XY series(except that Greninja arc).
For the plot or not, the Greninja arc still showed his overconfidence and over dependency which are humane flaws.

Which is the problem. That's why I say XY is tailored to make him look cool.

He also sucked at dancing and Bonnie laughed at him. He was also dense af which could be seen as another flaw, depends on the viewer.
All in all there are minor moments all over the series.

Like I said before, all his flaws in XY are portrayed as either cute or cool. Ash being dense and a bad dancer is "cute."

He was an inspiration to Serena and Clemont and idol like figure to Sawyer only. Diantha respected him because he gave her a good battle, but telling that she looked up to him is taking it too far.
Anything cool he did in the series didn't feel out of character either as it was something he would do and the viewer knows that.
Calling him "crazy amazing" is an exaggeration too.

I don't think it's an exaggeration when he had this exclusive super-form that only he could activate. He does cool things in-character, sure, but the problem is that it's OOC for him to do UNcool things.

Moreover I have seen amazingly characters who have flaws that matter only to the plot. Eg. Lelouch.
And that's not even the case with XY Ash.

No idea who that is, sorry. But with Ash, because the Greninja arc is the only time he gets to be human, it makes him look inhuman for a good majority of the series.

 

[DatsRight]

I think the general problem is that XY Ash was still as dense as the plot required him too, just it didn't play as much into his actual character, making him feel too much like a prop. SM Ash is pretty much what happens when he get frequently punished or called out for his silly habits and is self aware enough to get humility from it.

It didn't really feel like he got many distinctive chemistries with the other cast members in XY as a result, he felt a bit like a broken record as one previous post pointed out, just saying the same shonen hero quotes over and over.

 

[satopi]

Ash lost his way once he dropped his bromance with Clemont for the ninja frog. I can’t believe how Ash became detached to a guy he was becoming close to, I would’ve felt their argument had it been Clemont who searched for Ash than Serena. That was the perfect opportunity for Clemont to pour out his feelings, grow some balls, and knock some sense into Ash. He would’ve done more than just throw snowballs at him.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Why was Serena never been electrocuted? I mean even the SM girls are electrocuted. Did/Does Pikachu loves her more? Does Pikachu even care about Ashes Companions?

Pikachu only shocks the first girl Ash meets in a region. In XY's case, it was Bonnie.

 

[MockingJ]

It didn't really feel like he got many distinctive chemistries with the other cast members in XY as a result, he felt a bit like a broken record as one previous post pointed out, just saying the same shonen hero quotes over and over.

It's always been funny to me how the writers of XY&Z tried so hard to make Ash and Serena work as a potential couple for those 3 years yet they had no chemistry at all. The whole ship was just Serena making googly eyes at Ash and him just being oblivious. Even just as friends they were as interesting as watching paint dry.

 

[satopi]

It's always been funny to me how the writers of XY&Z tried so hard to make Ash and Serena work as a potential couple for those 3 years yet they had no chemistry at all. The whole ship was just Serena making googly eyes at Ash and him just being oblivious. Even just as friends they were as interesting as watching paint dry.

I wholeheartedly agree. They actually would’ve worked better had they not pushed Serena’s crush as so in your face as they did, plus with the amount of shipbait they tortured the shippers with. They should’ve been left as just friends or like Ash’s relationship with Anabel. I liked how Ash gave Serena a gift (and would’ve liked the episode better had they not had Serena left pondering if they were on a date or just hanging out as friends), I liked the scene where Serena was teaching Ash how to correctly ride a Mamoswine which led her to appreciate her mother’s teachings and had her thinking about her relationship with her mother, and I liked one of the last episodes where she’s training with Ash. While it’s cute how she went from barely making eye contact with Ash to being able to kiss him in public, her actual character story is what draws me to her. The writers just decided to focus on the wrong relationship with Serena, I still believe Serena would’ve been better without her canon crush. It was really silly having her go all that way just to give Ash a used handkerchief he doesn’t even remember nor wants. Their backstory wasn’t even good, Serena was nothing but a past COTD Ash stumbled upon. Shippers should’ve known he’s still crushing over Giselle til this day.

 

[J.Agera]

Also, being scared in a haunted mansion isn't a flaw lol

I only used your logic.
He and Clemont were scared the most, if he was treated as perfectly as you said, he wouldn't be sacred and act like a hero as if no one can scare him.

Like I said before, all his flaws in XY are portrayed as either cute or cool. Ash being dense and a bad dancer is "cute."

You can't just label them as "cute" and act as if they don't count.
And him being a bad dancer was cute? How? I didn't find it cute.
No one thought it was cute, not even Serena.
I can agree with the density thing.

I don't think it's an exaggeration when he had this exclusive super-form that only he could activate. He does cool things in-character, sure, but the problem is that it's OOC for him to do UNcool things.

Yea, an exclusive superform that showed his flaws.
He didn't master that form in one blow as if he could do anything.
He did do uncool and humane things, maybe it was subjective how you see them as.

 

[Sham]

Despite 4kids practically creating Pokeshipping up I still believe they had canon feelings for each other.

 

[Redstar45]

•Look pokeshipping vs amourshipping is so stupid......both shipped is stupid as hell ok?
•Os cockyness don't really exist in the Japanese dub and he was just mean to Kasumi ok !?
•And DPT Satoshi is same thing as his XYZ self .....this getting real bored now !
•And electric tail of pikachu manga is much awesome then anime (yes even os )
•And he was wearing red jackets that plus in my book! That and Shigeru actually had onee-chan like the game's Green do .

 

[J.Agera]

Despite 4kids practically creating Pokeshipping up I still believe they had canon feelings for each other.

Ash Ketchum does not not show any obvious feelings for a girl in the entire series except Gisele but that quickly faded after he came to know who she really was.

•Look pokeshipping vs amourshipping is so stupid......both shipped is stupid as hell ok?
•Os cockyness don't really exist in the Japanese dub and he was just mean to Kasumi ok !?
•And DPT Satoshi is same thing as his XYZ self .....this getting real bored now !
•And electric tail of pikachu manga is much awesome then anime (yes even os )
•And he was wearing red jackets that plus in my book! That and Shigeru actually had onee-chan like the game's Green do .

Good points.
I also believe Ash Ketchum had a crush on May(Gary's sis) in the manga and Misty was 12.
Also Ash Ketchum was a much better trainer in that manga than he was in the OG show.
I haven't read the entire manga, but I read somewhere that he forfeited a match because his Charizard almost killed Ritchie's Pokémon in the league?

 

[Redstar45]

Ash Ketchum dose not not show any obvious feelings for a girl in the entire series except Gisele but that quickly faded after he came to know who she really was.

Good points.
I also believe Ash Ketchum had a crush on May(Gary's sis) in the manga and Misty was 12.
Also Ash Ketchum was a much better trainer in that manga than he was in the OG show.
I haven't read the entire manga, but I read somewhere that he forfeited a match because his Charizard almost killed Ritchie's Pokémon in the league?

Yup. And it played pokeshipping batter then anime and let them grow bit and Rocket-Dan did get together at end and Satoshi and Shigeru actually fix their own childhood friendship and Satoshi catch fearow too !

 

[J.Agera]

Yup. And it played pokeshipping batter then anime and let them grow bit and Rocket-Dan did get together at end and Satoshi and Shigeru actually fix their own childhood friendship and Satoshi catch fearow too !

Yes Pokeshipping actually existed in the manga.
Rocketshipping sailed.
Maybe I should read it fully one day.