The Unpopular Opinions Thread

[maartjeverhoef]

There's 2 more that just came to my mind:
- I'd like to see Ash win a lower-level League like the Alola one before winning the more traditional one with more highly-skilled trainers.
- If Ash will ever use his reserves again, I hope he'll bring back his unevolved Pokémon like Totodile or Oshawott instead of aces like Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape or Greninja.

 

[Sham]

There's 2 more that just came to my mind:
- I'd like to see Ash win a lower-level League like the Alola one before winning the more traditional one with more highly-skilled trainers.
- If Ash will ever use his reserves again, I hope he'll bring back his unevolved Pokémon like Totodile or Oshawott instead of aces like Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape or Greninja.

I actually wouldn’t mind Krookodile since he was pretty underused.

 

[Shayminslicker]

I actually don't think B/W is all that bad. Honestly, it had the most entertaining filler episodes, and I do love Cilian and Iris quite a lot.

 

[DatsRight]

-M11 Shaymin is the worst character of the entire franchise.

All the more shame Mallow's sweetie pie Shaymin is seldom given limelight.

-The AG saga is the best.

It's ironic you'd consider the series where the studio transition makes the dubbing completely inconsistent the best.

I have to say I wouldn't mind the dub as much if they hadn't decided after the OS 'hmm, you know Team Rocket being genuinely witty and sarcastic doesn't work, I know, let's replace it alliterations and puns non-stop, THAT'S what audiences find funny.' Seriously, Johto TR were hilarious in the English dub, why did they downgrade them?

 

[TheWanderingMist]

-JP Meowth's voice is torture I wouldn't wish on even the world's most wicked people past, present, or future.

I wish it solely to be inflicted on Paul for eternity.

-DP is the worst saga of the entire show.
-M11 Shaymin is the worst character of the entire franchise.
-The XY(Z) saga's indulgence in shonen anime cliches makes that saga second-worst.
-The AG saga is the best.
-While neither are bad, TPCi > 4kids.

Why do you hate DP so much? I've got my reasons, but it's rare that I see anyone else hold it as the worst saga.

I think M15 Keldeo gives M11 Shaymin a run for its money in the most annoying creature department.

How dare you insult 4kids so! You will eat your jelly-filled donuts and you will like them.

-I find the “Ash is a battle-

obsessed robot/Ash was worshipped” complaints in XYZ to be very exaggerated. I tend to ignore anyone who uses that as an argument (that’s not to say it isn’t an issue)

I watched that saga twice and I still agree with the people saying the hero worship was a bit much.

-SM is the new XYZ in being the “overrated” series (as in people get way too defensive over anyone having any issue with it)

Because the overwhelming majority of people complaining are "It's not XYZ!" and "The artstyle is bad!" and "Pokemon should only be about Pokemon battles!" rather than legitimate complaints.

-Bonnie was a waste of space in the XY group, Korrina should have been a companion in her place.

Who was around for 5 episodes to ultimately have no impact on the plot because they weren't giving the main cast Mega Evolution besides giving Ash a Gym Badge? Even if Korrina had been a companion, they weren't going to give her Mega Lucario. They'd have made it so she didn't get the Mega Stone until near the end of the region. At least Bonnie got to be useful during the climax of the Team Flare arc rather than be useless the entire journey like Max was.

 

[Ignition]

I watched that saga twice and I still agree with the people saying the hero worship was a bit much.


Because the overwhelming majority of people complaining are "It's not XYZ!" and "The artstyle is bad!" and "Pokemon should only be about Pokemon battles!" rather than legitimate complaints.

You’re free to feel that way and as I said I agree that Ash’s relationships with the Kalos cast was a problem but I don’t think it’s as a problem as certain people here make it out to be.

I think “overwhelming majority” is a rather poor generalization from a vocal minority (Pokèmon has those way more than people would like to admit). Doesn’t disprove my point though

 

[PokemonKnight]

Showcases were far superior to Contests.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Showcases were far superior to Contests.

I liked them too. Closer to the in-game versions of Contests. If only they had the idea to make everyone else as creative as and as striving to be unique as Jessie.

@Ignition That's why I specified "people complaining". The vocal minority are giving the majority of the complaints.

 

[Ignition]

I know but I don’t see it like that. It just people naturally give the negative reactions the spotlight. If this was 3 years ago when the anime debuted, sure, but I don’t think that’s the case now especially considering a lot of people have warmed up to SM hence why I’m mentioning the current view on SM in my original post

 

[PokemonKnight]

I liked them too. Closer to the in-game versions of Contests. If only they had the idea to make everyone else as creative as and as striving to be unique as Jessie.

@Ignition That's why I specified "people complaining". The vocal minority are giving the majority of the complaints.

They were an excellent idea undercut by halfhearted execution.

I enjoyed them more than Contests which were glorified battles with inconsistent point systems. The May-Brock battle was a farce.

 

[Dragalge]

I wish it solely to be inflicted on Paul for eternity.



Why do you hate DP so much? I've got my reasons, but it's rare that I see anyone else hold it as the worst saga.

I think M15 Keldeo gives M11 Shaymin a run for its money in the most annoying creature department.

How dare you insult 4kids so! You will eat your jelly-filled donuts and you will like them.


I watched that saga twice and I still agree with the people saying the hero worship was a bit much.


Because the overwhelming majority of people complaining are "It's not XYZ!" and "The artstyle is bad!" and "Pokemon should only be about Pokemon battles!" rather than legitimate complaints.



Who was around for 5 episodes to ultimately have no impact on the plot because they weren't giving the main cast Mega Evolution besides giving Ash a Gym Badge? Even if Korrina had been a companion, they weren't going to give her Mega Lucario. They'd have made it so she didn't get the Mega Stone until near the end of the region. At least Bonnie got to be useful during the climax of the Team Flare arc rather than be useless the entire journey like Max was.

Hey Keldeo wasn’t too bad. Sure he was annoying but that was until he got his ass handed to him by Kyurem. Afterwards, he began to not act as brash as before and even accepted defeat towards Kyurem, knowing that he still has a ways to go! Good ol’ humility!

 

[Ryu Taylor]

It's ironic you'd consider the series where the studio transition makes the dubbing completely inconsistent the best.

AG isn't without its problems, but its advantages are some of the strongest of the entire show, one of the biggest ones being the fact that Ash is competent while not coming across as a bland shonen protagonist. Both DP and XY failed to replicate that.

Speaking of which...

Why do you hate DP so much? I've got my reasons, but it's rare that I see anyone else hold it as the worst saga.

Characters that ranged from bland to terrible, TR being the absolute most annoying they've ever been (regardless of language), that trilogy of movies sucked, terrible pacing, glorification of abusive training methods, and the absolute worst league bar-none (the Ash vs Paul battle, awesome as it was, doesn't salvage it).

I think M15 Keldeo gives M11 Shaymin a run for its money in the most annoying creature department.

I can see that. But Keldeo's advantage is that he isn't also a completely rotten brat.

 

[PokemonKnight]

AG isn't without its problems, but its advantages are some of the strongest of the entire show, one of the biggest ones being the fact that Ash is competent while not coming across as a bland shonen protagonist. Both DP and XY failed to replicate that.

Speaking of which...


Characters that ranged from bland to terrible, TR being the absolute most annoying they've ever been (regardless of language), that trilogy of movies sucked, terrible pacing, glorification of abusive training methods, and the absolute worst league bar-none (the Ash vs Paul battle, awesome as it was, doesn't salvage it).


I can see that. But Keldeo's advantage is that he isn't also a completely rotten brat.

I agree. Hoenn Ash was a perfect blend of competent trainer and wisecracking kid. As much as I enjoyed XY, Ash needed more humor. He is just so bland at times. DP was the worst, though.

This. In every other saga of the series (and heck, the entire video game series), proper Pokemon training is spelled out. Treat your Pokemon with kindness and affection. They are not tools. Even more egregious, characters like Brock (who went nuts on Damian in Kanto) just ignored it because they had to keep the 'intense conflict' going. Everything about the characters and universe was just so contrived in that rivalry. Reggie was a breeder. Apparently, he didn't care about Pokemon and just turned a blind eye to his brother's misdeeds. Not to mention, the halfbaked and completely ridiculous reason why Paul chose the edgelord path; my brother lost to one of the best trainers around! He is weak, I tell you. Yeah, the trainer who went to four leagues and won six Battle Frontier symbols is weak. The anime showed us that not every trainer earns entrance into the league. It was just silly, and falls apart once you analyze it. They tried to get deep when the writers can barely write a normal plot.

 

[Redstar45]

I agree. Hoenn Ash was a perfect blend of competent trainer and wisecracking kid. As much as I enjoyed XY, Ash needed more humor. He is just so bland at times. DP was the worst, though.

This. In every other saga of the series (and heck, the entire video game series), proper Pokemon training is spelled out. Treat your Pokemon with kindness and affection. They are not tools. Even more egregious, characters like Brock (who went nuts on Damian in Kanto) just ignored it because they had to keep the 'intense conflict' going. Everything about the characters and universe was just so contrived in that rivalry. Reggie was a breeder. Apparently, he didn't care about Pokemon and just turned a blind eye to his brother's misdeeds. Not to mention, the halfbaked and completely ridiculous reason why Paul chose the edgelord path; my brother lost to one of the best trainers around! He is weak, I tell you. Yeah, the trainer who went to four leagues and won six Battle Frontier symbols is weak. The anime showed us that not every trainer earns entrance into the league. It was just silly, and falls apart once you analyze it. They tried to get deep when the writers can barely write a normal plot.

Hell i sort wanted Satoshi kick his ass and Daisuke too in the os era !

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Why do I hate Paul so much?

That's an interesting question

 

[Doppelgänger]

I think Best Wishes is better than AG, and close to DP based solely on the production values. Older Pokemon battles are "fast paced" by having a lot of reaction cuts and a high number of moves, but they're not particularly well animated and the episode-episode plots are formulaic.

Best Wishes is a 100% improvement on that, but I feel like those aren't what the target audience cared about.

I also think that shipping is what ruined Serena as a character and made her the worst female lead, since most of her screen time was devoted toward shipping-as-a-gag without any possibility of a payoff. Thinking Ash would reciprocate is utter lunacy, so in this case shipping was devastating for her as a character.

I think Iris is fun if you don't take her too seriously. Her arrogance is obviously a facade to mask deep-seated insecurity, and that surfaces recurrently throughout BW.

I think Clemont and Bonnie are the two best traveling companions Ash has ever had, on the basis of them having contrasting personalities and dispositions with each other and Ash. But the SM cast is better overall because no one, not even Mallow, feels marginalized.

I think SM has the potential to be the best series of the Pokemon anime in spite of the crippling lack of focus on battles. The animation, story arcs and character development are already the best-ever. It's only an open question of where the plot ultimately goes, to the promised land or another round through limbo?

 

[VoltTacklingPika]

Team Rocket were the biggest reason behind the OS' success. As I see it, them being older characters free of the stereotypical personalities of the protagonists were essential in bringing a wide variety of viewers to the show.

OS was the best representation of the Pokemon world. It was just the right blend of wacky, weird and fantasy, with an edge of danger that isn't present in other the other seasons. It's world is still ultimately a utopia, where nothing truly horrible ever happens, but it added wrinkles to that utopia.

Every gym leader in Kanto was unique and distinct personalities. Gym leaders became a lot less remarkable as the show went on, as they became upstanding people rather than normal people just doing a job who have their own circumstances. Does anything compare to:

Brock - Has countless siblings he has to look after because his parents abandoned them
Misty - Has a strained relationship with her sisters, creating a dysfunctional gym
Lt. Surge - A tough SOB who beat up people's Pokemon
Erika - Disliked people who disliked perfume, wouldn't even let them into her gym
Sabrina - Possessed by some spirit, turned Ash and friends into dolls and tried to crush them
Koga - A straight-up ninja
Blaine - A weird old-dude who fights in a volcano

Gym battles were fun because Ash always had to jump through hoops to even get one. That kid used a dubious machine on a stranger's advice to supercharge Pikachu, cross-dressed with the help of TR, and was crushed by a chandelier on the way to getting a ghost-type. In future series, all he had to do was turn-up.

I seem to have gone full genwunner here, but man, when I think about the AG-XY era, I find it difficult to distinguish each individual show because a lot of stuff just repeats itself. They change up the look, change the cast the bit, even change how each season feels, but they're still all structured the same way, they all re-use the same storylines, and the problems that existed in 2008 when I joined these forums remained problems up until 2016. Not that these seasons are bad at all, but it's telling to me that I didn't watch AG and DP while they were airing, and dropped BW and XY at about the 60 episode mark. Something's not clicking for me.

 

[maartjeverhoef]

Who was around for 5 episodes to ultimately have no impact on the plot because they weren't giving the main cast Mega Evolution besides giving Ash a Gym Badge? Even if Korrina had been a companion, they weren't going to give her Mega Lucario. They'd have made it so she didn't get the Mega Stone until near the end of the region. At least Bonnie got to be useful during the climax of the Team Flare arc rather than be useless the entire journey like Max was.

I didn't really care about her Lucario to be honest, so I wouldn't mind if she didn't get it (or the Mega Stone) until the tail end of the series.

The main reason I wanted her to be companion is her personality. As a energetic, battle-focused girl, she could be a nice contrast to Serena and bring more 'life' into the XY group. And to see three best Kalos main cast Pokémon, Chespin, Pancham and Hawlucha, under her care.

I agree that her arc was kind of pointless if the writers didn't intend to give a main cast access to Mega Evolution (and it still irks me they gave Greninja sync form instead of anime-exclusive Mega Evo if it still made it into the games later on anyway).

They did what they could with Bonnie, giving her important role in Team Flare arc and Pokémon to take care of, but she always come off as annoying to me, and her gag only made it worse. I'd rather see her as a recurring character intead of full-time main cast member tbh.

 

[DatsRight]

Team Rocket were the biggest reason behind the OS' success. As I see it, them being older characters free of the stereotypical personalities of the protagonists were essential in bringing a wide variety of viewers to the show.

OS was the best representation of the Pokemon world. It was just the right blend of wacky, weird and fantasy, with an edge of danger that isn't present in other the other seasons. It's world is still ultimately a utopia, where nothing truly horrible ever happens, but it added wrinkles to that utopia.

Every gym leader in Kanto was unique and distinct personalities. Gym leaders became a lot less remarkable as the show went on, as they became upstanding people rather than normal people just doing a job who have their own circumstances. Does anything compare to:

Brock - Has countless siblings he has to look after because his parents abandoned them
Misty - Has a strained relationship with her sisters, creating a dysfunctional gym
Lt. Surge - A tough SOB who beat up people's Pokemon
Erika - Disliked people who disliked perfume, wouldn't even let them into her gym
Sabrina - Possessed by some spirit, turned Ash and friends into dolls and tried to crush them
Koga - A straight-up ninja
Blaine - A weird old-dude who fights in a volcano

Gym battles were fun because Ash always had to jump through hoops to even get one. That kid used a dubious machine on a stranger's advice to supercharge Pikachu, cross-dressed with the help of TR, and was crushed by a chandelier on the way to getting a ghost-type. In future series, all he had to do was turn-up.

I seem to have gone full genwunner here, but man, when I think about the AG-XY era, I find it difficult to distinguish each individual show because a lot of stuff just repeats itself. They change up the look, change the cast the bit, even change how each season feels, but they're still all structured the same way, they all re-use the same storylines, and the problems that existed in 2008 when I joined these forums remained problems up until 2016. Not that these seasons are bad at all, but it's telling to me that I didn't watch AG and DP while they were airing, and dropped BW and XY at about the 60 episode mark. Something's not clicking for me.

I think it's the fact the actual battles were such a non-entity in the Kanto series that bothered people. Both eras tended to trade off one agency/accomplishment area for another. SM sort of goes back into Kanto's approach, even having more difficult or insecure challengers like Nanu and Hapu again, though it feels like it tries to compromise a bit better (if not always successfully). I do think OS and SM not making battling the impetus of all protagonists' agency in the show was definitely a more versatile storytelling approach however, while the other series, sometimes even when TRYING to add a different goal or agenda, sort of went back into the more generic 'look how badass their Pokemon are' approach.

Seriously it sometimes felt like Johto-XY couldn't even do basic parables anymore since they couldn't budge from that formula, even when it didn't fit (eg. characters didn't so much make a mistake and learn from it/rectify it as much as they made it, Team Rocket interrupted, they beat them up, and suddenly it's not a problem anymore). There felt like a consistent failing to make the protagonists have an agency in storylines unless it was a big arc revolved around them and even in those cases if they could use the formula they would (eg. the Florges arc).

To it's credit though, BW did start off the cogs for breaking the classic formula. It was baby steps by then but it did try some mildly fresh approaches here and there like not having every third act revolve around beating up Team Rocket (or said beating up Team Rocket at least being marginally difficult). It only made XY more glaring in how despite this extra opening, it went back to the old formula but even more rigid and bland by the end of it's run. The writers clearly were unused to versatile storytelling by then, with SM being them trying to make a full and proper start.

 

[PokemonKnight]

That's an interesting question

Not really. He was a jerk rival without any of Gary's flair and designed to inspire ire by directly contrasting the long-held traditions of respectable Pokemon training.