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The Unpopular Opinions Thread

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by PorcelainVulpix, Jul 30, 2019.

  1. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I think the problem was that Shudo had a much more cynical depiction planned, focusing a lot more on the crapsack elements of the Pokemon profession and the insecure messes of trainers it creates, which obviously had to get dumbed down a fair bit to be a kids show. Cynical writing isn't bad, but it doesn't mix well when you still try to paint it in an idealistic light. eg. All these insecure hack jobs being on Ash's back and the kiddish moral being that they're right.
     
    J.Agera and KenzeyEevee like this.
  2. J.Agera

    J.Agera Don't push your luck.

    I enjoyed Kanto a lot. Probably because I didn't care about development or plot at that time.
    It's still fun to watch tbh.
    Johto was pretty fun because of the OG cast, but incredibly boring at times(Filler).
     
  3. Dragalge

    Dragalge Is he Santa Claus?

    Despite the handling of the Ash vs Ritchie battle, the rest of the episode was hilarious with Team Rocket constantly trying to keep Ash away! Especially when they first threw him in a truck and drove off to picking up Ash when he was riding a bicycle. Oh and Misty stomping on Ritchie’s foot(?)!
     
  4. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Kanto had that whole 'early instalment weirdness' thing where a lot of it was experimenting with new plot ideas. It was hit and miss, but the variation was fun. One could argue Orange Islands was the in-between, being more grounded than Kanto but still being a bit more versatile than Johto onwards.
     
  5. Soniman

    Soniman Break the Limit

    I malways wondered why Ash never held it against or blamed Team Rocket for essentially sabotaging his first League by tiring out most of his Pokemon. Ruining months of traveling and work. I would treat them with utter disdain if they did that.

    Also TR related but I can't get over what an awful choice it was to have them be Ash's last Kanto badge. Because it ends up being another run of the mill TR ep with different Pokemon. That would never fly today
     
    Pokegirl Fan~ and Dragalge like this.
  6. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Reminds me how May thought TR blown her chances qualifying into the contests and promptly beat the ever loving crap out of them, even when they weren't attacking first.

    Then again the league loss was another 'this is all Ash's fault' designation, so having him blame TR would have just got in the way of that, no matter how much sense it made.

    As for the final badge, remember at this point TR were treated as THE arch enemies for Ash, there weren't many bigger badder villains outside the movies, so TR had yet to downgrade to mere forgettable nuisances. It also seems like the writers just aren't interested in Giovanni as a main villain at all (Mewtwo Returns and the Operation Tempest all the way in BW are about it for him) preferring to keep him this mysterious greater scope entity.
     
    TheWanderingMist likes this.
  7. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    Probably because deep down he knew he didn't deserve to be in the league in the first place after half of his badges were pity ones.
     
    J.Agera likes this.
  8. PorcelainVulpix

    PorcelainVulpix Well-Known Member

    My “unpopular” opinion is being told we can’t like Kanto without being “blinded by nostalgia.” Yes, Kanto DOES get a pass because the writers had no idea the saga would continue for so long. Kanto was hilarious and more entertaining than any of the sagas following and to this day has the most memorable episodes of the whole series. The “Kanto pandering” in the anime is not bad at all compared to the games, y’all just need something to complain about.
     
  9. Sham

    Sham You can still do the right thing

    I’m pretty sure I said this already but let’s let this resurface. Misty nor Iris never bullied Ash. Yes Misty was physically attacking Ash in early episodes (mostly because slapstick was hugely popular in 90’s cartoons see Tom and Jerry) but that ended almost immediately and faded out. As far as comments, Ash has clap back at both at them in the series numerous times. Nobody forced him to travel with those girls at all.
     
  10. PorcelainVulpix

    PorcelainVulpix Well-Known Member

    Literally 90% of Ash’s savage OS moments are aimed at Misty without him being provoked at all. It was literally how they communicated with each other, so I’m not sure why people act like Misty was such a bully. Even when she was crying and having a moment with oddish, Ash couldn’t resist butting in and being snarky and ruining the whole moment.
     
  11. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Everyone in Kanto, be it Ash, Misty or any of the COTD, come off as having a REALLY defensive and sanctimonious streak, tearing into anyone who undermines their work even indirectly or chastising anyone who isn't as good as them, no matter how less time they've had to reach that. I feel like this is an artefact of Shudo's original more cynical concepts, where there was a clear 'get good or you'll end up a failure' ethic to the whole Pokemon training business (gym leaders trying to get out of battling competitors made more sense in the original notes for example because too many failures led to them getting fired). Cases like Team Rocket or the one-off Pokemon School still kind of demonstrate this old premise, but often the final show tends to whitewash it for kids viewing, making it look like more abrupt mean spiritedness or a case of a 'designated villain/hero'.

    This is likely why seasons after made things more idealistic since the show struggled to balance that excess cynicism. Iris does go back to the 'girl who hides her inferiority complex with snark' shtick, but she's generally more playful and ineffectual, more just a little kid who wants to look smarter than she really is, especially since Unova as a whole wasn't as aggressive and demanding as Kanto was.

    "A Double Dilemma" in AG is arguably the nearest to a more cynical Kanto-ish episode, though even that one seems more like an isolated 'jerk town' and a jab at toxic fanbases than a darker take on the show's concept as a whole.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  12. Power Up

    Power Up ...

    Speaking more in terms of this forum

    -XY/Z Ash is the best written version of Ash as XY actually develops him as a character and the environment allows him to take upon a role best suited for a veteran like him

    - The XY gang have the second best chemistry together below OS

    I actually plan to rewatch XY/XYZ soon, sub of course, and do an XY/XYZ series analysis
     
    SH65 and J.Agera like this.
  13. GarchompTheAssassin

    GarchompTheAssassin Water starter fan

    Not sure if this belongs here but Clemont trembling with nervousness/excitement after Pikachu took down Tyranitar in the final might be my favourite moment from a companion
     
    J.Agera likes this.
  14. J.Agera

    J.Agera Don't push your luck.

    I would read it.
     
  15. Power Up

    Power Up ...

    Will involve things like character analyses, disputing and disproving myths, etc...
     
    J.Agera likes this.
  16. Sham

    Sham You can still do the right thing

    I think Sun and Moon wants to stay as far away as ever from XY. It’s made references to Hoenn, Sinnoh and of course Kanto (I’m not sure about Unova everyone but feel free to correct me) but has yet to make a solid connection to XY.
     
    Pokegirl Fan~ likes this.
  17. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I don't mind the Kanto pandering much since I like seeing some of the older Pokemon and elements get a second chance in the limelight. The Alola forms in particular was a neat idea and allowed the likes of Marowak to get a moment as main characters they didn't get in the OS.

    I will however gladly agree it would be nice to get some harks back to Gen 2 onwards however, in fact ESPECIALLY Gen 2 since a lot of Johto got kinda screwed over. In hindsight it was neat that XY and SM had a random Gen 4 addition each, even if they didn't really get much limelight.
     
    PorcelainVulpix likes this.
  18. Power Up

    Power Up ...

    I agree, SM has given no direct reference/strong connection to XY.

    This is something I’ve noted as well and I think it’s deliberate on the part of the writers. Which leads me to believe that XY -> SM isn’t the actual continuity. Further on this point, it’s a reasonable assumption to believe that it’s possible that SM exists on a different point on the continuity timeline.
     
  19. Dragalge

    Dragalge Is he Santa Claus?

    Ash knowing about Mega Evolution is one way to know that SM continues on from XY. Kinda weird to start new continuity knowing about that!

    That and Pikachu kinda knew about Dedenne’s thing before in that one filler with the shrink ray. It could be a species thing and all but still.

    (And SM also referenced Clemont's Chespin too via costume!)
     
    satopi, mysticalglacia, Sham and 4 others like this.
  20. Sham

    Sham You can still do the right thing

    I don’t believe in alternate timelines or whatever conspiracy theories people make in order to make someone the show has made canon not real but you’re free to if you’d like.

    Which is why I added the word “solid” in there but I see, your points are clearly truthful in that SM has made references to XY. I didn’t even notice that Dedenne thing.
     
    Pokegirl Fan~ likes this.

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