The Unpopular Opinions Thread

[Xuxuba]

Personality can only carry the character for a while before it gets boring. Development is definetly needed. I don't care if the character improves as a person or actually becomes worse, as long as they don't become so stale. Otherwise, what is even the point of the other episodes after his introduction? Just to reiterate the fact that he acts the exact same way he did from the beginning?

Uh so you are telling me that Clemont had no development and his interactions with Ash and Bonnie weren't interesting?
What.

I mean, the guy started out his journey unable to take control of his own gym. Later on, he stood up for it, took it back, realized his flaws and trained to give his opponent a better fight.
By the end of the saga, he definetly improved as a gym leader and developed a much better team.
Not to mention he became more proactive too, as you can see in episodes like XY124 and XY139.
Even his inventions started working more often and being more useful in general (like the one that protected him from Xerosic's mind control). Although some of them would still explode, at least they did something helpful before blowing up.

I understand when people say they didn't like his development, because that is a very personal thing and some people might not like the pace of his development or the subtle way it was done in certain aspects, but i do believe that some parts of his character arc objectively prove that he developed. Like, we can't deny that Clemont realizing Ash was far ahead of him and deciding to train more was something that happened in the series. So, to say he wasn't meant to develop seems silly when the writers purposefully included moments like that in the show.

 

[J.Agera]

Personality can only carry the character for a while before it gets boring. Development is definetly needed. I don't care if the character improves as a person or actually becomes worse, as long as they don't become so stale. Otherwise, what is even the point of the other episodes after his introduction? Just to reiterate the fact that he acts the exact same way he did from the beginning?


I mean, the guy started out his journey unable to take control of his own gym. Later on, he stood up for it, took it back, realized his flaws and trained to give his opponent a better fight.
By the end of the saga, he definetly improved as a gym leader and developed a much better team.
Not to mention he became more proactive too, as you can see in episodes like XY124 and XY139.
Even his inventions started working more often and being more useful in general (like the one that protected him from Xerosic's mind control). Although some of them would still explode, at least they did something helpful before blowing up.

I understand when people say they didn't like his development, because that is a very personal thing and some people might not like the pace of his development or the subtle way it was done in certain aspects, but i do believe that some parts of his character arc objectively prove that he developed. Like, we can't deny that him realizing Ash was far ahead of him and deciding to train more was something that indeed happened in the series. So, to say he wasn't meant to develop seems silly when the writers purposefully included moments like that in the series.

Clemont is the best developed Male companion, bar none.

 

[Doppelgänger]

Personality can only carry the character for a while before it gets boring. Development is definetly needed. I don't care if the character improves as a person or actually becomes worse, as long as they don't become so stale. Otherwise, what is even the point of the other episodes after his introduction? Just to reiterate the fact that he acts the exact same way he did from the beginning?

That is taste. It has absolutely no bearing on how the writers approach a character. In Gurren-Lagann, everyone's favourite character is Kamina, a super robot hero stereotype who died 8 episodes into a 27 episode show. People never got sick of him and his antics and actually think the show would have been better if he stayed "the main character".

For Cilian especially, he was written as a generic "Mamoru Miyano" type character. If you've seen other over-the-top roles Miyano is famous for, Cilian is as transparently a vehicle for Miyano comedy as The Genie is for Robin Williams. Character arcs that threaten to change this personality weren't going to happen.

Clemont is in a similar boat. His voice actor, Yuki Kaiji, was typecast over a 5 year period for portraying wimpy characters. He and a man named Hiro Shimono were the two go-to actors for wimpy portrayals. His casting in Attack on Titan as Eren Yeager six months before XY was his first big break out of the typecast, but it happened too late to really change minds about his XY casting.

Clemont's "arc" in XY illustrates what I mean about characters existing just to be static. After Ash's Lumiose Gym Battle, Clemont went back to being the same person he was in early XY. With real character development, a character's personality doesn't revert for no reason. And since Clemont's casting and character were built around being weak and wimpy, he couldn't undergo an arc that could substantially, or permanently change that.

I think this casting pressure may have been why SM's cast, going in anyway, didn't have any famous stars. Obviously, Kiawe's actor Kaito Ishikawa is huge right now, but prior to SM he only had one major breakthrough credit (as One Punch Man's Genos). Even today, he's not typecast into any particular role.

So, to say he wasn't meant to develop seems silly when the writers purposefully included moments like that in the show.

His inventions are still impractical, backfire, and he's comically out of shape. He's still prudish and prone to bouts of cowardice. These are established traits from the very early episodes that are core to who he is. His inability to retake the Gym is a symptom of the root problem, and his desire to give Ash a "good challenge" was sabotaged by Ash cheesing the battle with Goodra, who was then not used again.

Clemont's development arc wasn't treated with the same sincerity as past or future main characters, because his concept isn't of a serious character. He's the comic relief sidekick.

 

[Moonlight Starlight]

I'm watching through S/M right now, and I can say that I really love the concept of this season. I like the idea of Ash going to school and the idea of Ash and his friends getting into insane situations every day. I really like Pokemon in a slice-of-life scenario. It's very refreshing and I think it fits in Pokemon really well. I would love to see them try this out again.

I think it would be cool for Pokemon have a separate au series Pokemon slice -of-life school thing. It would do something great also have old companions and other characters from the generations not added be on the anime giving them some spotlight screen time. And having some new fresh arc adventure added to the story. And it would do some good for Ash not taking up the screen time spotlight away from others it would do good for a character like him not being on too many episodes and not being the main character of the series, not this time. And not being the only character bringing humor funny scenes to the series but other characters too I like to see bring funny humors. Kind of like watching the anime " School Rumble".

I don’t understand what warrants a May cameo. She missed her chance in XY and that was about her only window. There’s nothing that warrants her coming back especially if there aren’t any Contests in the new generation. Dawn worked in Unova because it tied into Cynthia being there from the games.

@Sham if you can read my comment on the other page would explain some things on May would make since being on XY and having a different goal than not contest. Just think about it what you think.

 

[J.Agera]

>Comic Relief Sidekick
Ok now this is ridiculous.
He was a comic relief but he did have major arc roles and goal development. Infact he is treated better than any male character in the entire Anime series so far.
You don't make any sense.
I doubt you even watched XY.

 

[p96822]

That is taste. It has absolutely no bearing on how the writers approach a character. In Gurren-Lagann, everyone's favourite character is Kamina, a super robot hero stereotype who died 8 episodes into a 27 episode show. People never got sick of him and his antics and actually think the show would have been better if he stayed "the main character".

For Cilian especially, he was written as a generic "Mamoru Miyano" type character. If you've seen other over-the-top roles Miyano is famous for, Cilian is as transparently a vehicle for Miyano comedy as The Genie is for Robin Williams. Character arcs that threaten to change this personality weren't going to happen.

Clemont is in a similar boat. His voice actor, Yuki Kaiji, was typecast over a 5 year period for portraying wimpy characters. He and a man named Hiro Shimono were the two go-to actors for wimpy portrayals. His casting in Attack on Titan as Eren Yeager six months before XY was his first big break out of the typecast, but it happened too late to really change minds about his XY casting.

Clemont's "arc" in XY illustrates what I mean about characters existing just to be static. After Ash's Lumiose Gym Battle, Clemont went back to being the same person he was in early XY. With real character development, a character's personality doesn't revert for no reason. And since Clemont's casting and character were built around being weak and wimpy, he couldn't undergo an arc that could substantially, or permanently change that.

I think this casting pressure may have been why SM's cast, going in anyway, didn't have any famous stars. Obviously, Kiawe's actor Kaito Ishikawa is huge right now, but prior to SM he only had one major breakthrough credit (as One Punch Man's Genos). Even today, he's not typecast into any particular role.



His inventions are still impractical, backfire, and he's comically out of shape. He's still prudish and prone to bouts of cowardice. These are established traits from the very early episodes that are core to who he is. His inability to retake the Gym is a symptom of the root problem, and his desire to give Ash a "good challenge" was sabotaged by Ash cheesing the battle with Goodra, who was then not used again.

Clemont's development arc wasn't treated with the same sincerity as past or future main characters, because his concept isn't of a serious character. He's the comic relief sidekick.

Could you give better explanation about Clemont's character. I don't think your very clear of what your saying. I wouldn't say that Clemont's character goes back the way it was before. It more of that the writers didn't have anymore stories for him to tell. Also I do think Clemont's character development stick with him though XY

 

[Bortgreen]

Alright, now I'm going to say something about Team Rockets mottos:

I think D/P 's motto was the best. It sounds really good, and it's really satisfying when you recite the whole to yourself as weird as that might sound.

I don't really like B/W's or the Sun/Moon motto, only because there are a lot more words and it can be hard to memorize, but I DO love how S/M's motto ends with 'Let's fight!' along with Jessie and James posing to make a big R. That part is really cool.

I like it when TR makes new motto's, personally. Hearing one motto over and over again would get repetitive really fast.

TR's DP motto is so underrated because of the classic one
It's one of my favorites too

 

[game3524]

Personality can only carry the character for a while before it gets boring. Development is definetly needed.

This is not true at all.

Some of the best characters in literary history are static characters (ex. Sherlock Holmes and Tom Sawyer). Doc Holliday is the most popular and well received character from the movie Tombstone and he is basically a static character. Character development is not a requirement when it comes to creating a good character and honestly it has become a buzzword that fans just toss out because they think it sounds smart, even though many of them don't realize that some characters were not designed to have much growth in the first place.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

A strong personality is needed as much as good character development is both needed to be a good character. Characters like goku and monkey d luffy didn't receive major chracter development ut were considered likable due to there personalities sameways setsuna f selei and even lelouch vi brittania had serious personalities throughout the series but are considered some of the best characters of all time due to the constant evolution of there character.

 

[Sham]

I can’t privy how Clemont is regraded as one of the best male companions ever written yet even had more spaced out development than Lillie but that’s a problem?

Anyway idk if this unpopular but Kiawe has definitely surpassed him as the greatest male companion.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

I can’t privy how Clemont is regraded as one of the best male companions ever written yet even had more spaced out development than Lillie but that’s a problem?

Anyway idk if this unpopular but Kiawe has definitely surpassed him as the greatest male companion.

I would think Brock was the greatest given the time he spent with Ash and the fact that he had a really well rounded character development. He went from a girl crazy teenager to a person that cared a lot about how happy Pokémon were and their care.

 

[Sham]

I would think Brock was the greatest given the time he spent with Ash and the fact that he had a really well rounded character development. He went from a girl crazy teenager to a person that cared a lot about how happy Pokémon were and their care.

Except it took him until mid AG to get that development. Even then the whole “Pokémon doctor thing” was slapped on at the tail end of DP. Not to mention he still is girl crazy. He travelled to Alola to see Olivia.

 

[game3524]

Brock didn’t get much character development and that was fine because his character was never designed to have much in the first place. His stagnation was due to Ash maturing as a person and trainer, which led to Brock’s big brother role becoming less and less important.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

I can’t privy how Clemont is regraded as one of the best male companions ever written yet even had more spaced out development than Lillie but that’s a problem?

Anyway idk if this unpopular but Kiawe has definitely surpassed him as the greatest male companion.

I myself prefer kiawe over clemont i think kiawe was in all round improvement over him.

Brock was stagnant in the show for years. He has a 600+ episode run which is even worse because he was there for like 5 times the length of any other companion yet still has minimal development. In AG and DP he was a background character in both arcs outside of the few eps that focused on him.

Problem with borck is he stayed for way too long, and i mean two extra series (AG and DP), his issues is somewhat similar to ash of recent fe series but even worse,i mean that ash is looking stale with his character going nowhere but tleast every series ash has something interesting to work with whether a rival ar new pokemon that makes him interesting little bit with brock there was no such case .after OS

 

[Xuxuba]

This is not true at all.

Some of the best characters in literary history are static characters (ex. Sherlock Holmes and Tom Sawyer). Doc Holliday is the most popular and well received character from the movie Tombstone and he is basically a static character. Character development is not a requirement when it comes to creating a good character and honestly it has become a buzzword that fans just toss out because they think it sounds smart, even though many of them don't realize that some characters were not designed to have much growth in the first place.

You are using a fallacy called argumentum ad populum where you fail to realize that just because something is popular doesn't mean it's superior in quality. Yeah, Sherlock is a well-known character, but his popularity doesn't prove that he is one of the best characters ever written.

I could go on and on about how even Sherlock and Tom Sawyer are not completely static characters and that even they displayed some sort of development. Or i could talk about how they were created in a diferent period of time when people didn't have as much access to that many works of fiction like we do nowadays. But when the person's main argument relies on a fallacy there is no point discussing anything further until they show at least one coherent argument.

 

[Doppelgänger]

He wasn't designed for it, but neither was Ash after his rookie season in Kanto. He had questionable motivation for following Ash into Hoenn and Sinnoh - at least with Johto, the writers could have used breeding as an excuse, since Generation II was where the mechanic was introduced and Elm is a geneticist. In AG, Brock was the only character who could handle Max, and while his presence allowed Ash and Dawn's relationship to blossom, he didn't feel like a full member of the cast anymore. Best Wishes, for better or worse, communicated that Ash, Cilian and Iris were all part of the main cast.

The writers should have tied Brock's purpose to some Sinnoh-specific location. Something like the Ice Rock would give him unique reason to go to Sinnoh, just like how transporting Vulpix's egg to Samson Oak was the excuse to get Ash into Alola.

 

[DatsRight]

Personality can still play a large part into things, since a lot of the time development arcs still only take up a fraction of the show when it's rotating plots.

A lot of memorable characters also require agency and a personality that dovetails with everything else in their universe. The reason Kiawe stuck out is that, not only did he have a small bit of progression, but he was good as a supporting character, interchanging well into different roles, be they competent or comical. This was especially vital since he had the least amount of actual limelight episodes out of the SM cast at about half a dozen of 140+.

The reason Brock dwindled badly in DP was that not only did he barely have anything to do until the very tail end, but he didn't have a lot of chemistries or dynamics with the rest of Sinnoh to keep him going.

 

[Kuzehiko]

Clemont is the best developed male companion but to me, Brock will always be the best male companion.

 

[Xuxuba]

I can’t privy how Clemont is regraded as one of the best male companions ever written yet even had more spaced out development than Lillie but that’s a problem?

The thing is Lillie's focus died down after SM054. Clemont's focus only died down after his battle against Ash in XY 067, but even then he still was more useful than Lillie in general, helping Ash figure out Greninja's transformation with his inventions, hiding Puni-chan from Team Flare and etc...
Later on, both of them had a role on the most important arc of the series (TF arc to XY and the League to SM), but i believe Clemont had a much bigger role than Lillie did in the League. Without Clemont they would never have been able to stop TF control over Zygarde and 100% Zygarde is the one who stops the Megalith from reaching the Sundial. He would never be able to do that without the help of Clemont. Meanwhile, Lillie is totally expendable in the League arc. She got eliminated soon after the preliminary round and after that she was there just to cheer on Gladion and Ash.

I don't think Clemont's character arc is without flaws, but we should give credit where credit is due.
Lillie did have a less spaced out development early in the series, that i can agree with, but later on i would say it actually became worse.

 

[game3524]

You are using a fallacy called argumentum ad populum where you fail to realize that just because something is popular doesn't mean it's superior in quality. Yeah, Sherlock is a well-known character, but his popularity doesn't prove that he is one of the best characters ever written.

I could go on and on about how even Sherlock and Tom Sawyer are not completely static characters and that even they displayed some sort of development. Or i could talk about how they were created in a diferent period of time when people didn't have as much access to that many works of fiction like we do nowadays. But when the person's main argument relies on a fallacy there is no point discussing anything further until they show at least one coherent argument.

Tombstone came out in 90s, Dragon Ball came out in the 80s. These aren’t ancient works.

You are just flat out wrong. All a well written character requires is a interesting personality, good interactions with the rest of the cast, and a purpose to be in the story. Professor Oak is a well-written character even though he goes through no development. It is not a requirement, some characters are dynamic, while others are static.