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The Weather Warriors

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Zachmac, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    Not named after the team in the tourny going on. The name was given since the pokemon team was built around the weather wars, so it had nothing to do with the combatants cup. I do apologize to the Hoen Triangle, since I didn't intend to steal your team's name.


    So, a while ago, someone asked for a rate on their Heatran set. It was the rather generic Flame Charge Heatran, so I suggested to try it in the sun, were it'd be effectively +1/+1 whenever using Fire Blast. This weather also would be useful for keeping rain off the field, keeping Heatran's Fire Blast from being weakened. I've actually wanted to play with Flame Charge Heatran for a while, and since he requested that a more experienced competitive player tried it out themselves, I decided to give this set a go.

    Being a relatively bulky late game cleaner, I decided to make the team around bulky offense. Also, since sun is such a difficult weather to set up, I also decided to dedicate this team to the weather war.

    At least, when I use the term "bulky offense", I refer to a team where a bulky late game cleaner preforms a sweep after other generally bulky pokemon try and remove any threats. So, no Venusuars for me. I want to put that team slot into supporting my Heatran.


    Obviously, my first team members were Ninetales and Heatran. Heatran serving as the flame charge sweeper, and Ninetales using a custom set made for surviving the weather war as long as possible.


    First of all, weather wars always have the advantage when they're in the are in the lead when it comes to entry hazards. Hippodown, Tyranitar, Abomnasnow, and Politoed alike all hate swapping into +3 spikes. Not to mention, Politoed, along with some Tyranitar sets, hate to face the spike ball, thanks to it's high defenses and STAB Power Whip. It also served to remove bulky water types from my enemy's team, allowing my Heatran to sweep.


    Cofagrigus has always been one of my favorite Unova pokemon, and since Jellicent struggles to do damage in the sun, I felt Cofagrigus may make a more interesting spin blocker, especially since it isn't weak to Starmie's thunderbolt. Generally, when facing Tentacruel, it usually ends up in a draw, where Tenacruel's recovery is hindered by a burn, but Cofagrigus's dependence on Pain Split brings it's health almost all the way down, it still gets it's job done.

    Also, it helps me team handle Terrakion better.


    As a sun team, having a way to check sand is always great, and all teams in general need a way to defeat +1 speed threats reliably. Lastly, my Heatran will struggle to find it's way sweeping through enemies, and Tyranitar simply hates facing fighting types, so it seemed to me that Terrakion was my best choice.


    When most people see Exeggutor in a sun team, they think of Harvest. After all, that is Exeggutor's only niche, right? Wrong. One thing they overlook is it's base 125 special attack. While this guy can't sweep as well as, say, Venusaur, it serves as choice specs user, hitting foes with Leaf Storms even more powerful then that of Latios's Draco Meteor, thanks to it's ability letting it get away with a Modest Nature.

    Also, in a sun team, it's best to have more than one sun abuser. Otherwise, what advantage would the sun give?


    So, STAB Power Whip is a great move to have for facing rain, but I've found Exeggutor to do a surprisingly good job at filling that role. Also, Ninetale's greatest weakness, stealth rock, held it back a lot in the weather war. So, I decided to swap it for everyone's favorite niche pokemon.

    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Flame Charge
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    A simple late game cleaner. Get up a flame charge, than crush things with your STAB Fire Blast in the sunlight. Earthpower hits other heatran and fire types, and HP makes setting up on Gliscor and Landorus more reassuring, thanks to the air balloon.

    The modest nature is because Flame Charge is more of a stat boosting move, so I felt that sacrificing bulk to make it more powerful would be a waste.

    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Protect
    - Fire Blast
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - SolarBeam

    So, here we have my custom, weather warring Ninetales. Protect and the combination of leftovers help Ninetales stay healthy, allowing it to come in more, even when stealth rock is on the field. Sometimes, my opponent deals with the sunlight by having a Tyranitar or Politoed swap in. When this happens, I like to use will-o-wisp to to bring their health down every turn they stay in battle, and also cripple Tyranitar's attack stat. Fire Blast hits very hard in the sunlight, and Solar Beam provides decent coverage, so Ninetales is also a half decent offensive threat.

    I may replace Solar Beam with Energy Ball to hurt Politoed and Tyranitar swap ins more. Thoughts?

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 172 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk / 80 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stealth Rock

    Ferrothorn is my finest weather warrior, keeping those nasty entry hazards away from Ninetales while spreading them to make Tyranitar regret every swapping in. Magnezone hasn't been all that troublesome, so I gave it Gyro Ball to handle threats like Terrakion. Ferrothorn is offensively weak, but 150 base STAB power makes up for that. Just in case of Magnezone, I am considering Volt Switch instead.

    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    Ability: Mummy
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball
    - Haze

    Cofagrigus is a surprisingly good mixed wall, sponging both physical and special hits rather well, and is also my team's spin blocker. While it's low HP is unappealing, it's most reliable recovery move is pain split, so it's not that bad. Shadow Ball is a decent STAB option, also hitting Starmie super effectively, and will-o-wisp cripples the recovery of Tentacruel, cripples Donphan, and makes Foresight Hitmontop regret even considering the idea of staying in on it. Haze...well, where else do you think phazing comes from? Pseudo+Haze. Sadly, it doesn't help wrack up spikes damage, but it sure helps keep me safe from calm mind sweepers.

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - X-Scissor

    Dragonite, Salamence, Gyarados, Volcarona...practically all OU speed boosters are weak to rock. This, along with the ability to outrun all of them at +1 with a scarf, is what makes scarf Terrakion my favorite one of it's sets. Besides revenge killing with Stone Edge, Close Combat is Terrakion's primary STAB, dealing massive damage and proving excellent coverage with Stone Edge. Earthquake rounds this off, though it's mainly filler, since Rock/Steel types are already handled by it's Fighting STAB. X-Scissor hits any bulky psychic type who dare opposes it, though I use it so rarely, I may just swap it or EQ for Rock Slide and revenge kill more reliably.

    Exeggutor @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Psyshock
    - Sleep Powder
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Despite only being a decent STAB type, Leaf Storm is still an extremely deadly attack, and unlike Latios's Draco Meteor, hits bulky water types for super effective damage. And even outside of Sunlight, it still crushes Politoed and Tyranitar. 55 base speed my not be much, but with 252 speed EVs, it can outrun either of these two, unless they decided to run max speed EVs as well. Psyshock serves as secondary STAB, and doesn't force Exeggutor to swap out after it's first attack. HP fire reaches as decent 105 power in the sunlight, and provides fair coverage for it's grass type STAB. And, if all else fails, Sleep Powder doesn't, allowing me to put any pokemon to sleep.

    Before anyone suggest Harvest, I'd like to say that I chose this pokemon to remove bulky water types, and also check Politoed, Hippowdon, and Tyranitar outside of sunlight; Specially defensive Tyranitar isn't easily handled without choice specs. Also, not having harvest is also it's own advantage, as few opponents will ever expect to be facing it without, meaning that people often try to outpace it with pokemon who are actually slower in the sunlight. And remember, this team is about supporting Heatran, not sweeping with some gimmicky Exeggutor set.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  2. Atrocious

    Atrocious Well-Known Member

    Sunny Day > Protect if you predict a Ttar or Toed switch in which makes them switch right out and gives you momentum. Venusaur as your Mixed Wall? Yeah it's a little awkward but has decent bulk and great speed in sun being able to SubSeed or what not.
  3. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    ._. I don't like you.

    Anyways I would definitely say you need Sunny Day on Ninetales. Sunny Day Ninetales really only loses weather wars to Scarfers, which aren't common since most Politoed are running Specs and most Tyranitar are running utility or Dragon Dance. There's a niche in being the fastest weather starter in OU.

    Even after the Flame Charge boost, neutral Heatran isn't very fast, I'd go with Timid.

    Exeggutor doesn't beat Tyranitar outside of the sun if it invests in speed. It will be outsped and OHKO'd by Crunch before it can fire off a Leaf Storm. Nonetheless it's a good check to utility sets. I'm not sure if 252/4 Politoed is OHKO'd, but that's what most Specs sets run and almost all Politoed seem to be Specs these days.

    No other nitpicks really.
  4. loco1234


    I was about to say don't let Divine see you calling Flame Charge Heatran "generic" but....

    I agree with Sunny Day on Ninetales. It's really useful for messing up their Weather leads.

    Timid on Heatran has saved my life many, many times. The extra Spe helps you more than you'd think and Heatran can get by fine without the power drop.

    Besides that, yeah. That's all I can see really. Rain is more my strong point (SpecsToed is everywhere? Mine's still Scarfed...). Still, they both know their stuff and I'd back them up on what they've said thus far, especially as it fits in nicely with the sun experience I do have.
  5. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Like 70% of all Toed I see are Specs, probably because that thing is nearly impossible to switch in on. Really I don't ever see ScarfToed, although it's arguably Toed's most dangerous set due to shock value.
  6. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut Well-Known Member

    I too would second Sunny Day > Protect since it really messes with other weather inducer switch-ins, and will allow you to fully utilise Solarbeam. I do like the idea behind Protect though, so it's your call. If you opt not to switch to sunny day though, definitely go with Energy Ball > Solarbeam

    I'd also suggest Specially Defensive Jellicent > Cofagrigus. Cofagrigus is decent, but, as I see it, it should be running a calm mind set or nothing. Jellicent gives you a better switch in to Water attacks, which is always important for a sun team (you can't rely on sun always being up) as well as being a good check for many common threats such as Keldeo and Tornadus-T. Jellicent gets Will-o-wisp too, to help it cripple physical attackers and hence wall from the Physical side of the spectrum and it also gets Recover, which is more reliable than Pain Split. Since you're in the sun, I'd recommend the last two moveslots being some combination of Toxic/Scald/Shadow Ball/Taunt, whatever suits you.

    Finally, I'd go with Life Orb > Choice Specs and Giga Drain > Leaf Storm on Exeggutor. Exeggutor makes a nice late game sweeper and, although Choice Specs is powerful, there are a lot of things that can switch in fairly easily and force you out. Life Orb still gives you a lot of power, but more flexibility as well. Giga Drain helps counteract Life Orb recoil and makes the most of Exeggutor's decent bulk, it also means your sweep won't be cut short by that nasty -2 SAtk drop. Finally, it allows you to use Sleep Powder more freely since, with Sleep Clause, it's not a great move to be locked on to. The best thing about this is that if you're in the middle of sweeping and your opponent brings out a counter, you can simply Sleep Powder it.

    Hope this helps!
  7. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    Uh, sorry...I just remember seeing the idea being thrown around a lot early gen 5.
    Nah, I didn't grab Cofagrigus just as a mixed wall. It's a spin blocker. I'd rather not use Venusaur.

    Sunny Day seems like a popular idea, and this is weather war based....so I may try it over Solar Beam. All that has really been used for so far was against Gastrodon anyway...
    The only Tyranitars that run max speed are scarf and Dragon Dance, and I hardly ever see either of those.
    Well, since it's late game, it may get away with dropping the power...I'd probably like to try this in practice first, though.
    Actually, I see scarf toed a bit myself. I like to play carefully against those guys, though, so it shouldn't be a problem.
    I still don't like the idea of being weak to Starmie's thunderbolt, but a good water resist for when rain wins would still be kind of nice...I have been considering it, but I'm not quite sure if I really want to test it.
    I'm unsure of the life orb, and I know I'm not dropping Leaf Storm. Even if it's resisted a lot, it still hits like a truck, and I can still hit dragon types with Psyshock fairly hard and demolish those steel types with hidden power.

    I may go for Giga Drain over sleep powder, since that is primarily just filler, Exeggutor is a pokemon that I'm going to have swap out a lot anyway.
  8. MetalSonic

    MetalSonic Orderan' Defendan'

    Might as well make the change since a specially defensive variant takes just about anything Starm has to offer. Plus you can run Shadow Ball on it as well to deal with ones thinking it can weaken you without any resistance. Starms t-bolt won't be doing very much anyways,

    Calm, 252 HP/ 36 Def/ 220 Sp.Def
    ~Shadow Ball

    Yeah seems about right :0 Standard spread and stuff.
  9. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    That's not standard SpD Jellicent. Toxic over Will-O-Wisp and Scald over Taunt.
  10. Conquer Phoenix

    Conquer Phoenix Falling Light

    jumpluff could be a good counter for stalls if you check it out with encore and sub
  11. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut Well-Known Member

    252 SAtk Timid LO Starmie Thunderbolt vs 252/220 Calm Jellicent - 40.1% - 47.5%

    0 SAtk Jellicent Shadow Ball vs 4/0 Starmie - 66.4% - 78.6%

    I wouldn't worry too much about it at all. Even if you switch in with Stealth Rock down, with leftovers, there's zero chance of you being 2HKO'd, whereas, with only a few hazards down on the field, you can effectively OHKO Starmie with the help of some LO recoil.
  12. MetalSonic

    MetalSonic Orderan' Defendan'

    Pssst, talkin bout the "spread" as in EV spread. Didnt say set if that's what confused you. ^^;
  13. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    I guess I'll try, but if Jellicent is forced into other attacks before hand, that's still pretty scary.

    ...Gah, I guess I'm just being biased because of how much I love the mummy compared to that ugly jelly fish. I probably should give it a try.
    Scald only has 40 base power in the sun. No thank you.
  14. Blue Harvest

    Blue Harvest Banned

    Honestly just drop Exeggutor for Venusaur. It is much, MUCH faster, slightly more durable, has better offensive AND defensive typing and isn't just begging to be pursuited after one attack. Giga Drain / Sludge Bomb / HP Fire / Sleep Powder smashes basically everything in OU barring Heatran / Chansey. If you want to get past them a Seed Bomb / HP Ice / Earthquake / Growth set is incredibly effective after Scizor / Forretress / Ferrothorn die.

    Also get rid of Solarbeam on Ninetales. It just leaves you helpless against a Tyranitar or Politoed switch in. 60 base power Grass attack might do SOME damage, but the STAB Surf or Stone Edge will lose you the weather war. Go Energy Ball. Consider Sunny Day so Politoed doesn't constantly beat you.

    Drop Cofagrigrus or whatever its called for a Dugtrio. ATM Heatran virtually 6-0s you. Focus Sash Dugtrio lets you beat Heatran, Tyranitar, and Politoed while freeing up rocks on Forretress for Volt Switch. Volt Switch is EXTREMELY important as a slow Volt Switch allows more chances to get Sunny Day up with Ninetales. You can also run Rocks > Flame Charge on Heatran. If Rocks go on Duggy consider running Sunny Day on Heatran just in case Ninetales gets crit or some BS.

    You don't really need Scarf Terrakion if you run Venusaur so maybe run Choice Band Terrakion, or something that actually enjoys the sun. If you play Forretress well enough you could always run Victini or Darmanitan, who can run through even water and dragons with sun boosted STAB moves.

    In short...

    Venusaur > Exeggutor.
    Energy Ball + Sunny Day on Ninetales
    Dugtrio > Crappy Ghost
    Volt Switch on Forretress. Even > Spikes if you have to. It is VITAL.
    Drop Scarf on Terrakion for maybe Band, or get rid of it for another fire type to abuse sun like Darmanitan or Victini.
  15. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Jumpluff, lmfao.

    Whimsicott gets Prankster Encore and Substitute, no Stealth Rocks weakness, more utility, etc. There is no reason to use Jumpluff in RU and above, and little reason to use him in NU.

    JS, at +1, Heatran only hits about 380 Speed, which is still very slow and leaves him revengekilled by nearly any Scarfer in the game, as well as outsped by random things like Jolteon and Weavile. Seriously, the drop in power isn't THAT noticable, you should really just run Timid.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
  16. McDanger

    McDanger Well-Known Member

    BH hit most of the important points
    i also dont see how this team can be successful against standard sand offensive as keldeo basically KOes everyone except exeggutor, and some people run HP bug for celebi. I would drop exeggutor for venusaur, like BH said, i would give heatran solarbeam> earth power, as hes best late game, where you will have already killed rival heatrans, and helps with bulky waters like rotom wash. I never like forry with sun, but he works best with volt switch and dugtrio to trap heatrans and weather inducers. I dont think confagrious is that good atm comparied for a sp def wall, i`ve been trying a bulky kyurem black with great success as he can basically handle rain teams solo, bar keldeo, scizor(which with a sub up he can hurt alot), toxicroak, and ferrothorn. On ninetales, i find a bulky sp def spread to be better then an offensive sunny day
    Sp for changes i would say
    kyurem black>confagrious
    volt switch>spikes on forry
    sp def tales>offensive
    dugtrio>some one

    if you want a fire over terrakion i would use darmatian as you team is very tyrannitar weak

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