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The Writing Was On The Wall Re: Journeys series

G4Pokefan

THE AURA IS WITH ME
Granted, I haven't posted on here in sometime and haven't been actively watching the anime like I used to. I haven't really enjoyed it in its full capacity since Black/White series (which alot of people hated)

But I have been catching a few episodes of Journeys here and there and reading about the spoilers over the last three years. Journeys was not my favorite and neither was the character of Goh but the direction they took this series, i knew something was up when these things were happening:

-Ash traveling to past regions
-All the cameos from his past, even the ones we haven't seen in YEARS!
- Him acquiring Pokemon that fans always wanted him to have (Dragonite, Lucario, Gengar)
- Him having all the mechanics from previous Gens ( Megastone, V-ring)
- meeting and Battling all the champions he came across over the years including Cynthia
- The parts where ALL his past traveling companions looked on
- The part where Pikachu was surrounded by ALL the Pokemon he and Ash befriended from Gen 1 to current including Pidegot, Primeape and Butterfree.
- Him actually winning the Champion Title instead of Just coming in second
- The Journey series leading up to the 25th anniversary of the Anime.

All of it was planned I truly believe by the creators/animators. This was all leading up to retire the character on the 25th anniversary mark. No way all of this was done just so he could end up on another region and be rebooted like in Black/White.

Of course, me personally, I wouldn't have mind him sticking around longer until the 30th anniversary of the franchise and before the start of GEN 10(X). I think that would've been the perfect ending point. Him leaving during Gen 9 seems like an odd time but it's already done.

Even though we'll still have more of Ash we'll into next year probably til Summer when the English Dubs of the remaining episodes cone to the west, i definitely will miss them both. They have been a constant in my life and many others while everything else around us were drastically changing. It'll be hard to deal with but we'll always have reruns and no one, human or cartoon character stays retired. We might see them both again here and there. Or if the 2 new protagonists don't work out, they can always bring him back. (A'la Brock).

Thoughts anyone?
 

BlueDragonfangirl

Well-Known Member
They didn’t even do it right, look at how sloppy they handled the visits and how they treated certain characters that got appearances.

Don’t forget the first half of the series, they actually sidelined Ash’s goal for more of Goh’s catch of the day and at times dummed down Ash’s character to make Goh look better

What kind of send off series is that?
 

G4Pokefan

THE AURA IS WITH ME
They didn’t even do it right, look at how sloppy they handled the visits and how they treated certain characters that got appearances.

Don’t forget the first half of the series, they actually sidelined Ash’s goal for more of Goh’s catch of the day and at times dummed down Ash’s character to make Goh look better

What kind of send off series is that?
I agree. One of, it not the main reasons why I didn't watch much of Journeys because of the Goh character and how easily they made him catch pokemon with little to no effort, and had him single-handedly took Ash's title of having a lot of pokemon he's seen/caught. And they managed to do that in a single season. Plus him catching some legendaries? C'mon....
 

Shadao

Aim to be a Pokémon Master
Pokemon Journeys makes it difficult to go back to old days of one region because we now know Ash can actually go anywhere at anytime whenever he likes. There is no longer a linear path and long journeys anymore if he can ride on cars or planes at ease.

Thus, we are faced with the possibility of Journeys format continuing for the anime in years to come or consider the unthinkable that is Ash no longer being the main character.

Honestly, Journeys is the best formula to continue the anime since it allows flexibility for the writers to write whatever they want without feeling the need to rush through the Gym Quest or confine Ash to the basic marketing team of the region. Even if Ash becomes the World Champion, there's so much he can do in Scarlet and Violet that wouldn't require him to compromise a lot of his achievements (namely, he can call upon his reserves or find more unorthodox Pokémon than the marketable starters).

Going back to the old formula is essentially saying "We need a new Ash" for the series. There's really not much freedom with recycling the old formula and we see just how much Ash could do without old formulas weighing him down.

I am more interested on the consequences of defeating Leon for Ash, simply because it puts Ash in a position where he really is at the top, and he has to figure out where to go next.

Which is why my recurring question is where can you take Ash now after he defeats Leon? And it honestly frustrates me that many people simply went to the easy route of Gyms plus League formula so easily for SV rather than really thinking how to move forward with Ash's journey.

I feel that Ash is beyond the old forumla. There's not much he can do going back without feeling like a retread. He's more interesting when he's allowed to do anything, no limits on his Pokémon or gimmicks. It's also more fun to speculate on what the series could be this time.

If we go back to the formula, then we are admittingly that the anime ran out of ideas and gone back to recycling old plots again. And if we're going to recycle, you might as well replace Ash.

I think there is a little misconception about the whole end of his journey. I don't expect Ash to retire from his goal to be a Pokémon Master even if he becomes an adult and is raising a family. If Leon's any indications, he'll have plenty of adventures as an adult on the road to being a Pokémon Master (like driving).

The catch is that it is highly unlikely for the anime to follow Ash to that new path due to a commitment of keeping it a kids show. If Ash were allowed to the pursue these possibilities yet the show wants to stick to a kids' show, then the logical conclusion is for the camera to take focus away from Ash and Pikachu and onto a new protagonist.

This essentially spells the end of our time with Ash's Journey, but Ash himself will never retire. He'll continue on off-screen just like many of his friends, and we are only left to speculate.

To make it clear, I don't expect Ash to leave right now, especially since SV doesn't reveal what exactly is the new premise. But there are some paths that the audience cannot accompany Ash with, namely to adulthood. That's why it has always been an eternal summer in the anime.

Prior to Leon, there was no way to determine who is the strongest Champion. They were all powerful by their own right. But when Ash won the Alola League and thus officially recognized as the Alola Champion, it became evident that a Champion's strength varies from region to region depending on the League. It's not a simple equal rank.

But Leon's debut changed all of that. Leon is Ranked Number One and makes it clear he's the World Champion by beating the other Champions and Elite Four into submission. This is the ultimate trainer for Ash to beat in his eyes.

And it opens up an interesting scenario that Ash has never really faced, even when he's the Alola Champion. What would he do when he's at the top of the world as the best trainer? He never put any thought of that possibility because for the longest time, that was always a distant goal, something he wouldn't worry about right now since it will be something for the future.

Well, that future is fast approaching and Ash cannot stop himself by deliberately losing. It's not in his character to lose when he's not giving it his all. He wants to give his all and try his hardest because he wants to see how far he can really go. So sooner or later, he'll supplant Leon as the world's strongest champion... and will be faced with the challenges Leon faced as Champion: "Did I reach the end of my limits? Is there no more challenges left?"

It's an interesting scenario that will force Ash to rethink what being a Pokémon Master is. Where does he go from there? What does it mean to be at the top and only waiting for others to challenge you in the hopes of claiming the title themselves? These questions will help Ash become a better trainer and open him to new paths in the future that is far better than Gym Badges and another tired League.

Ash's journey never ends. He'll be traveling to new places and meet new people when he becomes an adult and may be starting a family. That's how never-ending his journey would be.

In short, Ash would never retire. Rather, it would be the camera, our view into his adventures, that would retire first. Once it decides to veer focus away from Ash for large amount of time, that's when you know our time with Ash has come to an end.

Let me say the phrase that everyone knows by now:

"I want to be the very best, like no one ever was."

That is what being a Pokémon Master is. To be the best there is, to be better than before. It's a drive of self-improvement. A walk of life that we all do. For a better tomorrow and a more perfect world.

"To catch them is my real test. To train them is my cause. I will travel across the land, searching far and wide. Teach Pokémon to understand the power that's inside."

This is the basics of being a Pokémon Trainer. Note how it's very basic, almost non-specific. It could apply to any trainer. It could apply to Misty. It could apply to May. It could apply Dawn. Apply to Iris. Apply to Serena. Apply to Goh. Apply to Cilan, Brock, Clemont, etc. They all want to be a master of their career. And it will not end with one victory in the Master rank. Oh, there's room to improve. Always.

That's why Ash's journey is neverending, but it's only becoming a very refreshing prospect when Ash gets to do something new. As long as Ash is doing something he hasn't done before, I welcome his future journeys and adventures even if it means the show goes on forever. But I don't welcome the idea of Ash repeating stuff he has already done. I don't want him back to doing Gym Battles, losing to newbies with Pikachu, relearning the basics, or compete in Leagues with random strangers and then lose to a League rival before starting the process all over.

No. That tired old formula is the reason why so many people here wanted Ash to retire. If he's not doing anything new as a character, that's the point of keeping him? You might as well replace him with a new protagonist. And let me tell you all, the day that Ash retires, becomes Pokémon Master, and the show ends is the day that the anime team ran out of stuff for Ash to do. At least for Ash to do as a 10-year-old kid. There's plenty of stuff he could do as an adult that would advance him to become Pokémon Master.

And then the plot twist reveals that Ash is leaving the series too because he's also too powerful to keep for the series as a continuing protagonist. :p

Thus, the Team Rocket trio are the longest lasting characters of the whole anime.

Looking at my posts earlier this year, I must say that much of suspicions and speculations were spot on. Defeating Leon was going to be a game changer for the whole anime, because it puts Ash in an impossible position regarding status quo. The anime made it clear that the main goal for Ash in Journeys is fighting Leon, with his battle against Raihan emphasizing that Ash intends to beat Leon. Add on to the fact that the Master 8 had regional Champions plus one League Winner in the bracket, Ash was going to break records by defeating Champions, an unthinkable feat in the past.

I have to admit though, the thought of Ash seriously leaving didn't occur into my mind... until Leon brought up his fears of being undefeated. That there is no challenge left, no sense of satisfaction. Add on to the fact that Leon is an adult version of Ash, and we start to see what the future holds for Ash, and why Ash can't simply lose to Leon. Leon needs defeat in order to be free as a person. But we know that Ash wishes to fight Leon again, and if he grants Leon's wish, he'll be the one on top of the World Championship. He'll be the World Champion with no one above him. And that status means that something had to give way. How could anyone justify Ash going back to Gyms again? Or make a brand new team? Or struggling in general? You can't continue escalating the stakes when Leon was established as the strongest trainer in the entire world. There needs to be weight and meaning to defeat Leon.

For Ash to continue, the whole formula must change to accomodate for Ash's new status as World Champion. Challengers would want to face Ash at his best, not when he's handicapping himself with a new team. And the Gym Leaders will have to up their game to even be an entertaining match against Ash. And Ash needs new goals that aren't battle oriented in order to keep things interesting. But this juggling act of promoting the new games and staying true to Ash's new status is a difficult one. The best solutions often reduce Ash as a mentor trainer to a newbie trainer, the logical step for Ash after he reached the peak.

And it was there that the possiblity of Ash leaving altogether was becoming a real option in my mind. If the anime cannot abandon the classic formula of Gyms and Leagues, then it might as well be a new trainer. Ash is simply incomptiable now. Ironic, before I realized that Ash defeating Leon was becoming a reality, I thought Pokémon Journeys offered the solution of Ash continuing on (along with Goh) forever with needing to reset him. A world tour with Ash occasionally visiting the new region and new Pokémon for the obligatory game promotions. Now, in hindsight, that world tour was a demonstration of how the anime cannot rely on Ash. While Journeys was the best thing that ever happened to Ash, it came at a cost of promoting Galar. Galar got shafted in terms of Gym Leader and Pokémon promotions, with the second year being dominated by Gen IV remake promos. But if Paldea becomes the main focus of the next anime, then much of Ash's freedom as a true Pokémon trainer would be greatly reduced.

So in the end, the writing was on the wall for Ash and the status quo. One of the two had to go after this series. And now, we know the answer. Ash was chosen to be let go by the Pokémon Company.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
Yeah. It's been pretty obvious that they were setting up Ash to walk off into the sunset since at least the beginning of the year. It really became obvious after we had the three Kalos episodes in April followed by the Aether family reunion.

I even posted that prediction in July.

And in October:
 

Blood Red

【推しの子】

AARTX

Dead inside…
That explains why he’s in masters. Its not just an advertisement, its also Ash’s final resting place.

-getting acknowledged as a "master" with his pikachu

-getting to (sorta?) hang with Pokemon’s hall of famers

-getting immortalized through the game….well at least until the game shuts down

Yep Ash is in Poké Valhalla alright LMAO

Aged quite well XD.

Glad I scouted him till 5/5
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
I can get why @Blood Red and others are disappointed by what Journeys ended up being, especially when we judge with the hindsight of it being Ash's final full series. I think the points they lay out are fair criticism, and I agree with them on a few points.

Even if I remove my own biases on what I think JN should be and judge it in the context of what it is (the world's longest running toy commercial), there are aspects of the series that are underwhelming. It was the 25th anniversary of the show, and it was marred by production delays and some misused returns. Alain should have been used better (even if I don't mind him getting absolutely bodied by Leon...), and Dawn's lack of progression can be frustrating to DP fans. The reserves should have been featured more heavily in the PWC.

And some things were rushed and didn't get the proper amount of time to develop. I think that is more of a problem with how the series was formatted, but it is still a problem.
 

Gingertail24

Well-Known Member
Honestly yeah, in hindsight it was obvious journeys is Ash last series. But honestly the thought of Ash leaving was unfathomable for many. Even now I can't believe they did it , even tho it's been a few days since the reveal

What made it more confusing is the TR pdea shorts that most took as a confirmation for gen 9 anime. Which I did as well
 

Shadao

Aim to be a Pokémon Master
Honestly yeah, in hindsight it was obvious journeys is Ash last series. But honestly the thought of Ash leaving was unfathomable for many. Even now I can't believe they did it , even tho it's been a few days since the reveal

What made it more confusing is the TR pdea shorts that most took as a confirmation for gen 9 anime. Which I did as well

The Team Rocket shorts were actually debated by fans because while it may appear to be a promo for a Gen 9 anime, it may just also be Oak's Lecture segments done at the last minute to give SV some promo because the games were already out.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
It matters, we needed to see on screen even if with characters we don’t care about to know how Ash got back up again, it was so random, I thought to myself * When the Hell did that happen? *
Do we really need to see every Ash battle in detail, thought? The series had enough pacing issues, so showing every Ash battle on-screen wouldn't really help that. Besides, the montage kind of showed Ash climbing his way back up.

But that does raise a point about the PWC design and execution overall. I know it's modeled after <insert post-game battle facility here>, but did they really need to do it that way? Why not cut out the normal and super classes and have turn it into a league or tournament that featured COTD and gym leaders from previous series. They could have controlled the pacing better, removed the need for new COTD, worked in some of the Galar gym leaders, and given long-time fans meaningful battles with fan-favorite characters (even if Ash has already battled them) and E4 members.

Plus we could have seen characters like Angie, AJ, and Giselle again, which would have made @Pokegirl Fan~ happy.
 
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Spyro39

Well-Known Member
It's true that Journeys had a lot of signs and buildup to being Ash's final series as the MC.

The real question was if the staff was going to go through with this decision or if they were going to keep Ash and backpedal on everything they did for this series for the SV anime.
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
Well yeah, his battles could’ve been shown more. Didn’t he jump like 100x spots in between episodes. Also they should’ve brought back characters (that’s from older series) that he didn’t already beat in the first place. It felt lackluster.

Honestly yeah, in hindsight it was obvious journeys is Ash last series.
Not sure if this is controversial but is bad TRio is gonna missed more than Ash? General bummer that they’re leaving.
 
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SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Absolutely
Although I don't blame anyone for not believing Ash would leave
It was a shock to us all, simply coz we didn't think they'll have the balls to retire THE face of the franchise
Ash's Pikachu IS the face of the franchise
Ash is THE iconic character from this franchise

In hindsight, it's kinda obvious considering all Ash achieved and this series did, there's really barely and stuff for him to do. But on the other hand, the anime had deluded us all into thinking otherwise for obvious reasons

This is absolutely the right decision story and writing wise, but is hard, and hits hard as well......

Looking at my posts earlier this year, I must say that much of suspicions and speculations were spot on. Defeating Leon was going to be a game changer for the whole anime, because it puts Ash in an impossible position regarding status quo. The anime made it clear that the main goal for Ash in Journeys is fighting Leon, with his battle against Raihan emphasizing that Ash intends to beat Leon. Add on to the fact that the Master 8 had regional Champions plus one League Winner in the bracket, Ash was going to break records by defeating Champions, an unthinkable feat in the past.

I have to admit though, the thought of Ash seriously leaving didn't occur into my mind... until Leon brought up his fears of being undefeated. That there is no challenge left, no sense of satisfaction. Add on to the fact that Leon is an adult version of Ash, and we start to see what the future holds for Ash, and why Ash can't simply lose to Leon. Leon needs defeat in order to be free as a person. But we know that Ash wishes to fight Leon again, and if he grants Leon's wish, he'll be the one on top of the World Championship. He'll be the World Champion with no one above him. And that status means that something had to give way. How could anyone justify Ash going back to Gyms again? Or make a brand new team? Or struggling in general? You can't continue escalating the stakes when Leon was established as the strongest trainer in the entire world. There needs to be weight and meaning to defeat Leon.

For Ash to continue, the whole formula must change to accomodate for Ash's new status as World Champion. Challengers would want to face Ash at his best, not when he's handicapping himself with a new team. And the Gym Leaders will have to up their game to even be an entertaining match against Ash. And Ash needs new goals that aren't battle oriented in order to keep things interesting. But this juggling act of promoting the new games and staying true to Ash's new status is a difficult one. The best solutions often reduce Ash as a mentor trainer to a newbie trainer, the logical step for Ash after he reached the peak.

And it was there that the possiblity of Ash leaving altogether was becoming a real option in my mind. If the anime cannot abandon the classic formula of Gyms and Leagues, then it might as well be a new trainer. Ash is simply incomptiable now. Ironic, before I realized that Ash defeating Leon was becoming a reality, I thought Pokémon Journeys offered the solution of Ash continuing on (along with Goh) forever with needing to reset him. A world tour with Ash occasionally visiting the new region and new Pokémon for the obligatory game promotions. Now, in hindsight, that world tour was a demonstration of how the anime cannot rely on Ash. While Journeys was the best thing that ever happened to Ash, it came at a cost of promoting Galar. Galar got shafted in terms of Gym Leader and Pokémon promotions, with the second year being dominated by Gen IV remake promos. But if Paldea becomes the main focus of the next anime, then much of Ash's freedom as a true Pokémon trainer would be greatly reduced.

So in the end, the writing was on the wall for Ash and the status quo. One of the two had to go after this series. And now, we know the answer. Ash was chosen to be let go by the Pokémon Company.

Yeah. It's been pretty obvious that they were setting up Ash to walk off into the sunset since at least the beginning of the year. It really became obvious after we had the three Kalos episodes in April followed by the Aether family reunion.

I even posted that prediction in July.

And in October:

You guys have been my favourite posters in this site this whole past year <3
Absolutely glad to see UnovaMaster proven wrong, the Goh haters and doomposters proven wrong, in the end you two being right

Still kinda sad though that you guys are right. When believing it'll never happen when the moment actually comes you discover maybe this isn't what you wanted even if it's right, because it's your childhood and it's hard to imagine you having to let it go

Legit feels like I'm saying goodbye to a friend. This sounds VERY corny I know, but well, it's like that
 

DigitalTrainer

Worried about everything
I’m just repeating what was said, before but this season was way too awful to be considered worthy of being called the sendoff season.

If it were actually good, went the extra mile with all the bells and whistles, then I wouldn’t have minded this being Ash’s last season. If the creators wanted this to seem acceptable last season, they would have thought of something better than showing random episodes about blue Pokémon or convicting pikachu about some crime, and they shouldn’t have skipped over so many of pwc battles into offscreen land, just to prioritize Goh.


In my opinion only about 5 to 10% if episodes were the ones they actually put any effort including the final battle with Leon, and even then I felt little, because all of the crap that came before watered it down so much, and then it was followed up with those pointless project mew episodes. It really says something when I actually choose to not bother watching most of the episodes.
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
I was flip-flopping about it. Early on I was thinking maybe they would make Goh the new face, then PM became a thing and got him an endgame for gen 8. Then a lot of characters kept returning and sorta getting conclusions, but then it seemed lile TR woild get nothing (well this held true, unless mesaze helps), then the M8 began, but then there were the Ash losing leaks, then he won and we got the 135 title, but we started getting the Paldea shorts and those interviews, and now here we are
 
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