G-SANtos
Well-Known Member
This is something I've been thinking for a while and I wanted to post. Do you guys think there was more planned for Generation VI that got cancelled? Because I do.
First of all, I would like to start with a disclaimer that I never played any of the 3DS games as I don't own a 3DS. Therefore, I apologize if anything I say about the games in incorrect. However, I did watched a playthrough video series for XY, and also the Delta Episode, and I'm currently watching a SM playthrough series.
I'm mostly making this thread to explain my theory and have somewhere to link to in case I mention it in another discussion. Anyway, here it goes.
The way Gen 6 was handled is weird. We got a pair of games, a remake, a leap year, and then we went straight to Gen 7 with no follow up to Kalos whatsoever, with Zygarde's new form debutting in the anime. At the time, there were theories of a connection between Kalos and Alola, but that didn't materialize. So we were left with a Generation that seems incomplete.
By now, Sword and Shield has released. Because of Dexit, we have evidence that GameFreak has strict deadlines forced on them by higher ups, and they probably have to rush the games because of it. Could this explain why?
SM was released on the franchise's 20th anniversary year. What if it was originally planned for later, but higher ups wanted a new Gen for the 20th anniversary? Sure, you might ask "Well, that doesn't mean anything for 2015. If they HAD to release SM in 2016, how does that cancel a Kalos game in 2015?", and the answer is simple. Game development takes time. If SM wasn't originally planned for 2016, but then pushed for earlier, it's possible that developing a game for 2015 could derail SM. In that case, they would have to scrap the 2015 game and put everyone on the SM team.
While we don't have hard evidence SM was forced to have an earlier release, I've heard some people say it feels rushed. One of the Captains has no trial, and the Pokédex has no National mode. The Mythicals don't even cutscenes. Only for Magearna you have an NPC explaining its lore. Marshadow, and later Zeraora, doesn't even have a lore.
And while we don't know for sure that a 2015 game was cancelled for Gen 7 in 2016, we do have evidence there was more planned for Gen 6 at one point. Here. Game IDs datamined showing 2 unused IDs for the blue pentagon. This tweet is from 2017, after SM's release. While this information already existed, I was only able to find a tweet from after SM's release.
I remember at the time, people were theorizing that the next games would be X2 and Y2, or XZ and YZ. Honestly, if Zygarde was meant to be a mascot of two games, I think Z and W make more sense, because both are axis, and Zygarde has a W-looking thing on its back. Or maybe A and Z.
However, I actually think these two games were meant to be Pokémon Z and Pokémon Delta Emerald.
Let me guess, you guys are probably thinking this is a weird theory. After all, a remake of a third version was never before, and B2W2 are probably a sign of third versions becoming second pairs from now on, specially with USUM.
But here's the thing, both B2W2 and USUM have reasons for not being single games.
From what I remember from an interview, Gen 5 was originally intended to have a traditional third version, but someone from Nintendo, I think it was Iwata but I don't remember for sure, told Game Freak to do something different or move to the 3DS.
Even so, if Grey had happened instead, the game would have to deal with the problem of how to adapt BW's whole "you and N each catch a dragon" thing into a third game story, and I'm not sure how you would do that.
And SM is also designed in a way that you can't exactly create a third game without prioritizing one game over the other.
First is the time problem. While Sun follows the 3DS's clock, Moon has the clock 12 hours ahead. There's not exactly a middle ground here. But of course, this one is a minor problem.
There's a bigger one, and that is Cosmog. The main thing that differentiates SM from other games, is that you have one Pokémon that evolves into the cover legendary, and Cosmog's final form is different for each game.
How do you work that into a third version? The simplest answer of "just have Cosmog evolve into Necrozma" doesn't seem to work that well, specially when Necrozma looks completely different from Solgaleo and Lunala.
If anything, SM is the perfect example of a game that can't have a third version made for it.
Even SwSh would work: If you add a third dog that commands Zacian and Zamazenta, and replace Hop with it in the Eternatus battle it works fine.
Just have the protagonist fight Eternatus alone, with Hop watching because his team has already been incapacitated or something. Midbattle, Hop tells the protagonist to use the Rusted Bow, and it summons the arrow dog, who summons Zacian and Zamazenta. Done, a Raid Battle with the hero and three legendaries. Easy-peasy.
Actually, I think this may have been a plan before they decided to go with DLC: After all, Galar has 18 Gym Leaders and there are exactly 8 that we don't know. But that is besides the point.
The point is none of this works for SM. You would need to work both of Solgaleo and Lunala into the plot somehow, and choose which Nebby evolves into, essentially prioritizing one of the paired games over the other.
Not to mention, they would still have to allow you to catch Cosmog and make it possible for it to evolve into either Solgaleo and Lunala in the same game. Which would be weird if there's already a Solgaleo and Lunala in the game that can presumably catch, as legendary mascots usually don't come in multiples in the same game.
With that, it's probable SM was planned from the start to have two third games instead of one. Necrozma's design seems like it was made with fusion with Solgaleo and Lunala in mind, unlike Kyurem where they had to make two forms for B2W2.
In fact, I actually wonder if the presence of Achroma (Colress) from B2W2 (and maybe Burnet's too) in SM was meant as foreshadowing of Necrozma fusing with Solgaleo and Lunala.
But XY has none of these problems. In fact, it's quite the opposite: The story actually doesn't make sense as separate games. Why? For a simple reason, and one reason alone: The Ultimate Weapon.
The Ultimate Weapon has two abilities: Giving eternal life, and wiping out a bunch of living things. And each of those is tied to one of the cover legendaries: Xerneas the Life Pokémon, and Yveltal the Destruction Pokémon.
And here's the problem: With paired versions, the Ultimate Weapon makes no sense. In Y, you have a source of immortality being powered by the death Pokémon, and in X you have a death cannon powered by the Life Pokémon.
While B2W2 may have made people think traditional third versions were over, and USUM may have confirmed that theory for some, XY is the one place where a traditional third version makes more sense than paired follow ups.
And then, there's Delta Emerald.
You might be wondering, why would they remake a third game when they never did that before? After all, they had Crystal elements in HGSS. Why not do the same for ORAS.
The thing is Emerald is a pretty different case from previous third versions. Blue is literally the same story as RG, and just better graphics. Yellow is basically RGB with minor anime references.
And Crystal is basically no different from different from GS. All that it changes storywise is including a Suicune sidequest with a new character. It is so minor that it doesn't affect the main story in any way, to the point HGSS could even include the sidequest without taking away from the fact it is a GS remake.
But Emerald? That was actually the first time a third game significantly changed the story from its base game. There's no way of including Emerald's changes into a RS remake without making it an Emerald remake instead.
And yes, ORAS has Delta Episode, but that's actually quite different from what I'm talking about. HGSS includes Minaki (Eusine) and the Suicune sidequest, which is the main element from Crystal.
Meanwhile, ORAS barely includes any element Emerald at all. There is no Battle Frontier, Adan (Juan) doesn't appear, Enishida (Scott) doesn't appear, and the Frontier Brains don't appear.
Yes, the Battle Frontier is mentioned as being under construction, and Masuda has given a reason for the Battle Frontier to not return. But the absence of the other characters, is weird. See:
-Enishida is mentioned by an NPC in the Battle Maison. But why couldn't there be a small event where you he gives a Mega Stone? They literally put Handsome (Looker) in ORAS just for that.
-Adan is mentioned by Lutia (Lisia), but why couldn't he show up somewhere in Sootopolis? Maybe even as battleable. B2W2 allowed you to fight the retired Gym Leaders from BW.
-Azami (Lucy) is mentioned by an NPC, and I believe she's the only Brain to be mentioned. Obviously if there's no Battle Frontier you can't challenge them as Brains, but why not have them show up somewhere? Battleable or not.
All of those absences just strike me as weird when they were able to have many new characters in the remake. This is one of the reasons why I think Delta Emerald may have been planned at one point: They may have kept the return of these Emerald characters for the Emerald remake.
There's also the fact ORAS was hinting at some connection between Hoenn and Kalos, with AZ being mentioned in Delta Episode, and Project AZOTH not being fully explained. A Grunt says the "A" and "Z" in AZOTH mean "beginning" and "end", which is just like how AZ was described at one point in XY, but we have no clue what the "OTH" mean. To me this AZOTH sounds like a hint to another game. And there's also the Eternal Flower in Sootopolis.
And finally, here's the last reason why I think Delta Emerald may have been a thing at one point: The weirdness of Rayquaza not needing a Mega Stone to Mega Evolve. Sure, there's a story explanation for that, but that's not the point. The point is, why would Game Freak specifically make Rayquaza an exception to the Mega Stone rule? Why would they design a Mega that doesn't need a Stone?
Well, think about it. What is the main weakness of Mega Pokémon? They can't hold items. If you ask me, I think that was the point: Mega Rayquaza is able to hold an item.
In my view, the only reason to design Mega Rayquaza with a different requirement for Mega Evolution, is that Game Freak wanted Mega Rayquaza to have a free item for something. Like what?
Well, ever since Platinum, every third version had a new form the third legendary in the cover. And Gen 6's main new concept was the idea of item-induced transformations mid-battle (Mega Evolution, Primal Reversion).
You see where I'm going, right? I think Game Freak's idea was that Mega Rayquaza was meant to evolve further. In the same way Groudon and Kyogre go through Primal Reversion when holding the Orbs, I think the idea was that Delta Emerald was going to introduce another transformation for Rayquaza, probably with a new item, so its total transformations in battle would be Rayquaza -> Mega Rayquaza -> Ultra Instinct Rayquaza.
And this, well, "Ultra Instinct Rayquaza", for lack of a better name... Actually, let's call this hypothetical form Delta Rayquaza, because I don't think Primal Rayquaza would be what it actually is. Well, this Delta Rayquaza would probably be the cover mascot of Delta Emerald.
So the plan, if that was actually the plan, could have been Z in 2015 and Delta Emerald in 2016. Or maybe both games in the same year, maybe as paired versions. I mean, both would have a green dragon on the cover. Who knows? It would also be a first for GF to release two completely different games together.
And here's my theory. Finally written somewhere where I can link to when I bring up. What do you guys think?
First of all, I would like to start with a disclaimer that I never played any of the 3DS games as I don't own a 3DS. Therefore, I apologize if anything I say about the games in incorrect. However, I did watched a playthrough video series for XY, and also the Delta Episode, and I'm currently watching a SM playthrough series.
I'm mostly making this thread to explain my theory and have somewhere to link to in case I mention it in another discussion. Anyway, here it goes.
The way Gen 6 was handled is weird. We got a pair of games, a remake, a leap year, and then we went straight to Gen 7 with no follow up to Kalos whatsoever, with Zygarde's new form debutting in the anime. At the time, there were theories of a connection between Kalos and Alola, but that didn't materialize. So we were left with a Generation that seems incomplete.
By now, Sword and Shield has released. Because of Dexit, we have evidence that GameFreak has strict deadlines forced on them by higher ups, and they probably have to rush the games because of it. Could this explain why?
SM was released on the franchise's 20th anniversary year. What if it was originally planned for later, but higher ups wanted a new Gen for the 20th anniversary? Sure, you might ask "Well, that doesn't mean anything for 2015. If they HAD to release SM in 2016, how does that cancel a Kalos game in 2015?", and the answer is simple. Game development takes time. If SM wasn't originally planned for 2016, but then pushed for earlier, it's possible that developing a game for 2015 could derail SM. In that case, they would have to scrap the 2015 game and put everyone on the SM team.
While we don't have hard evidence SM was forced to have an earlier release, I've heard some people say it feels rushed. One of the Captains has no trial, and the Pokédex has no National mode. The Mythicals don't even cutscenes. Only for Magearna you have an NPC explaining its lore. Marshadow, and later Zeraora, doesn't even have a lore.
And while we don't know for sure that a 2015 game was cancelled for Gen 7 in 2016, we do have evidence there was more planned for Gen 6 at one point. Here. Game IDs datamined showing 2 unused IDs for the blue pentagon. This tweet is from 2017, after SM's release. While this information already existed, I was only able to find a tweet from after SM's release.
I remember at the time, people were theorizing that the next games would be X2 and Y2, or XZ and YZ. Honestly, if Zygarde was meant to be a mascot of two games, I think Z and W make more sense, because both are axis, and Zygarde has a W-looking thing on its back. Or maybe A and Z.
However, I actually think these two games were meant to be Pokémon Z and Pokémon Delta Emerald.
Let me guess, you guys are probably thinking this is a weird theory. After all, a remake of a third version was never before, and B2W2 are probably a sign of third versions becoming second pairs from now on, specially with USUM.
But here's the thing, both B2W2 and USUM have reasons for not being single games.
From what I remember from an interview, Gen 5 was originally intended to have a traditional third version, but someone from Nintendo, I think it was Iwata but I don't remember for sure, told Game Freak to do something different or move to the 3DS.
Even so, if Grey had happened instead, the game would have to deal with the problem of how to adapt BW's whole "you and N each catch a dragon" thing into a third game story, and I'm not sure how you would do that.
And SM is also designed in a way that you can't exactly create a third game without prioritizing one game over the other.
First is the time problem. While Sun follows the 3DS's clock, Moon has the clock 12 hours ahead. There's not exactly a middle ground here. But of course, this one is a minor problem.
There's a bigger one, and that is Cosmog. The main thing that differentiates SM from other games, is that you have one Pokémon that evolves into the cover legendary, and Cosmog's final form is different for each game.
How do you work that into a third version? The simplest answer of "just have Cosmog evolve into Necrozma" doesn't seem to work that well, specially when Necrozma looks completely different from Solgaleo and Lunala.
If anything, SM is the perfect example of a game that can't have a third version made for it.
Even SwSh would work: If you add a third dog that commands Zacian and Zamazenta, and replace Hop with it in the Eternatus battle it works fine.
Just have the protagonist fight Eternatus alone, with Hop watching because his team has already been incapacitated or something. Midbattle, Hop tells the protagonist to use the Rusted Bow, and it summons the arrow dog, who summons Zacian and Zamazenta. Done, a Raid Battle with the hero and three legendaries. Easy-peasy.
Actually, I think this may have been a plan before they decided to go with DLC: After all, Galar has 18 Gym Leaders and there are exactly 8 that we don't know. But that is besides the point.
The point is none of this works for SM. You would need to work both of Solgaleo and Lunala into the plot somehow, and choose which Nebby evolves into, essentially prioritizing one of the paired games over the other.
Not to mention, they would still have to allow you to catch Cosmog and make it possible for it to evolve into either Solgaleo and Lunala in the same game. Which would be weird if there's already a Solgaleo and Lunala in the game that can presumably catch, as legendary mascots usually don't come in multiples in the same game.
With that, it's probable SM was planned from the start to have two third games instead of one. Necrozma's design seems like it was made with fusion with Solgaleo and Lunala in mind, unlike Kyurem where they had to make two forms for B2W2.
In fact, I actually wonder if the presence of Achroma (Colress) from B2W2 (and maybe Burnet's too) in SM was meant as foreshadowing of Necrozma fusing with Solgaleo and Lunala.
But XY has none of these problems. In fact, it's quite the opposite: The story actually doesn't make sense as separate games. Why? For a simple reason, and one reason alone: The Ultimate Weapon.
The Ultimate Weapon has two abilities: Giving eternal life, and wiping out a bunch of living things. And each of those is tied to one of the cover legendaries: Xerneas the Life Pokémon, and Yveltal the Destruction Pokémon.
And here's the problem: With paired versions, the Ultimate Weapon makes no sense. In Y, you have a source of immortality being powered by the death Pokémon, and in X you have a death cannon powered by the Life Pokémon.
While B2W2 may have made people think traditional third versions were over, and USUM may have confirmed that theory for some, XY is the one place where a traditional third version makes more sense than paired follow ups.
And then, there's Delta Emerald.
You might be wondering, why would they remake a third game when they never did that before? After all, they had Crystal elements in HGSS. Why not do the same for ORAS.
The thing is Emerald is a pretty different case from previous third versions. Blue is literally the same story as RG, and just better graphics. Yellow is basically RGB with minor anime references.
And Crystal is basically no different from different from GS. All that it changes storywise is including a Suicune sidequest with a new character. It is so minor that it doesn't affect the main story in any way, to the point HGSS could even include the sidequest without taking away from the fact it is a GS remake.
But Emerald? That was actually the first time a third game significantly changed the story from its base game. There's no way of including Emerald's changes into a RS remake without making it an Emerald remake instead.
And yes, ORAS has Delta Episode, but that's actually quite different from what I'm talking about. HGSS includes Minaki (Eusine) and the Suicune sidequest, which is the main element from Crystal.
Meanwhile, ORAS barely includes any element Emerald at all. There is no Battle Frontier, Adan (Juan) doesn't appear, Enishida (Scott) doesn't appear, and the Frontier Brains don't appear.
Yes, the Battle Frontier is mentioned as being under construction, and Masuda has given a reason for the Battle Frontier to not return. But the absence of the other characters, is weird. See:
-Enishida is mentioned by an NPC in the Battle Maison. But why couldn't there be a small event where you he gives a Mega Stone? They literally put Handsome (Looker) in ORAS just for that.
-Adan is mentioned by Lutia (Lisia), but why couldn't he show up somewhere in Sootopolis? Maybe even as battleable. B2W2 allowed you to fight the retired Gym Leaders from BW.
-Azami (Lucy) is mentioned by an NPC, and I believe she's the only Brain to be mentioned. Obviously if there's no Battle Frontier you can't challenge them as Brains, but why not have them show up somewhere? Battleable or not.
All of those absences just strike me as weird when they were able to have many new characters in the remake. This is one of the reasons why I think Delta Emerald may have been planned at one point: They may have kept the return of these Emerald characters for the Emerald remake.
There's also the fact ORAS was hinting at some connection between Hoenn and Kalos, with AZ being mentioned in Delta Episode, and Project AZOTH not being fully explained. A Grunt says the "A" and "Z" in AZOTH mean "beginning" and "end", which is just like how AZ was described at one point in XY, but we have no clue what the "OTH" mean. To me this AZOTH sounds like a hint to another game. And there's also the Eternal Flower in Sootopolis.
And finally, here's the last reason why I think Delta Emerald may have been a thing at one point: The weirdness of Rayquaza not needing a Mega Stone to Mega Evolve. Sure, there's a story explanation for that, but that's not the point. The point is, why would Game Freak specifically make Rayquaza an exception to the Mega Stone rule? Why would they design a Mega that doesn't need a Stone?
Well, think about it. What is the main weakness of Mega Pokémon? They can't hold items. If you ask me, I think that was the point: Mega Rayquaza is able to hold an item.
In my view, the only reason to design Mega Rayquaza with a different requirement for Mega Evolution, is that Game Freak wanted Mega Rayquaza to have a free item for something. Like what?
Well, ever since Platinum, every third version had a new form the third legendary in the cover. And Gen 6's main new concept was the idea of item-induced transformations mid-battle (Mega Evolution, Primal Reversion).
You see where I'm going, right? I think Game Freak's idea was that Mega Rayquaza was meant to evolve further. In the same way Groudon and Kyogre go through Primal Reversion when holding the Orbs, I think the idea was that Delta Emerald was going to introduce another transformation for Rayquaza, probably with a new item, so its total transformations in battle would be Rayquaza -> Mega Rayquaza -> Ultra Instinct Rayquaza.
And this, well, "Ultra Instinct Rayquaza", for lack of a better name... Actually, let's call this hypothetical form Delta Rayquaza, because I don't think Primal Rayquaza would be what it actually is. Well, this Delta Rayquaza would probably be the cover mascot of Delta Emerald.
So the plan, if that was actually the plan, could have been Z in 2015 and Delta Emerald in 2016. Or maybe both games in the same year, maybe as paired versions. I mean, both would have a green dragon on the cover. Who knows? It would also be a first for GF to release two completely different games together.
And here's my theory. Finally written somewhere where I can link to when I bring up. What do you guys think?