Things to consider in response to 3-D

[Zora]

Okay, a lot of games are coming out 3-D, and others 2-D. This is a topic to consider pros and cons of 3-D and 2-D. This is a topic going around as either yes or no, but in reality is in the middle of in or out of D/P. Discuss why you think it should or should not be 3-D.


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(I am pro-2-D)
Things to consider in response to 3-D

* Memory: MPH maxed out memory on a DS card, it is one of the shortest 1P games to date. Do want a shorter Hoenn region. Doubt it.

* Same Movement: unlike in most 3-D games, the movement system here would still be using blocks, 3-D or 2-D.

* Perspective: This goes along with movement, it would be hard to see with facing the back.

* Pre-rendered: Do not get this confused with this being 3-D. It is just 2-D with graphics that make it show more relistic and more 3-D like. However it does NOT fit the definition of 3-D.

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Why I doubt 3-D will happen:
Memory: considering that Nintendo is going to make this a long lasting game, they want to use memory to their advantage. DS 2-D games are much longer then 2-D GBA games (About 4 times as much).

Advantages: I can not think of how 3-D would be helpful. It does not add new game mechanics, or anything else.

Tradition: Indeed tradition is not as stable as previously thought. However I still think it would be better if we kept as much Tradition as we can. The only thing that is not traditional so far is types.

 

[zuloon]

3-d+Double Battles are really annoying because they take WAY to long for everything to have its turn+everything to be animated (is there an options list where you can turn battle scenes off? I don't play Colosseum too much and don't own XD).

 

[Zora]

3-d+Double Battles are really annoying because they take WAY to long for everything to have its turn+everything to be animated (is there an options list where you can turn battle scenes off? I don't play Colosseum too much and don't own XD).

In PC and XD you can not turn off battle animations.

 

[Ilex]

I want them to stick with sprites, not models.

...Just so I can sprite them

 

[Volteon]

I prefer the 2D mode too, because then the Egg hatching is easier to count
I also think the 2D sprites better to look than the 3D ones, compare Swampert in Pokémon XD and in Sapphire!

 

[Alastor DMc]

I think he looks much better in 3D then in 2D. In 2D, Swampert looks like a big fatty, but in 3D he looks sleak and faster and just over all better.

I think the games will be 2.5D. The Pokemon and characters will still be 2D but the world itself will be 3D or even pre-rendered, with attacks appearing 3D and more realistic. I also think we might get graphics very similar to Ranger. Battles would still be turn based, but you wouldn't just see the back of their head (or in some cases, a claw ) but you'll see both pokemon (or all 4 in double battles) the same, just on different sides of the feild. The battle cammera could even be situated like it was in Golden Sun. That's my ideal view for the pokemon. It would also be very awesome to actually see, while in battle the vast difference in size of a Wailord and a Pichu.

 

[Zora]

There is no such thing as 2.5D. And you can't have 2D people in a 3D world and consider it 2D. By definition it is no a low-poly 3D world. Also DO NOT COMPARE POKEMON TO PC OR XD. If (if is a key word) they make it 3D, they will have to low poly AND pixilized. They would be less different, probably lack some animations (like they do now). It would be completely different because of DS.


And you need consider that if (if is a key word) it is in 3D, it will have to be short. It would be the shortest Pokemon game).


By the way the definition of Pre-rendered graphics: 2D Backdrops/Sprites/Objects that are set-up to look relistic and 3D, but are still 2D. If you need an example of pre-rendered, look at Latios's sig.


Also consider that PC and XD are short, but it would take on average, four DS cards to make up PC about five for XD. So the D/P would have to be either 1/4 as long as PC, or 1/5 as long as XD. Assuming Models are stationary except when needed. (Like in battle)


You need to take in consideration the limitation with 3D. MPH, apprx. 5 hours to beat 1P, was a low-poly game in 3D, If Pokemon was proportional to this and PC and XD, it would be lucky to have 3 towns 5 routes and 10 new Pokemon

 

[Alastor DMc]

2.5D is a term used in animation to describe a style that's a mix between 3D and 2D cartoons. For example, the 90's Spider-Man cartoon was 2.5D, Futurama was 2.5D and I believe the new TMNT is 2.5D, where as shows like Jimmy Nutron are 3D and Loony Toons is 2D.

This is also implemented into Video games. Viewtiful Joe is a prime example of a game with 2D sprites existing in a 3D world. The New Super Mario Bros. game, on the other hand uses 3D models in a 3D world, but has side scrolling game play.

 

[Zora]

2.5D is a term used in animation to describe a style that's a mix between 3D and 2D cartoons. For example, the 90's Spider-Man cartoon was 2.5D, Futurama was 2.5D and I believe the new TMNT is 2.5D, where as shows like Jimmy Nutron are 3D and Loony Toons is 2D.

This is also implemented into Video games. Viewtiful Joe is a prime example of a game with 2D sprites existing in a 3D world. The New Super Mario Bros. game, on the other hand uses 3D models in a 3D world, but has side scrolling game play.

By definition that is Pre-rendered. In reality it is 2D, just well drawn.

 

[Alastor DMc]

No it's not. It's placing CGI in a hand drawn cartoon, ala Spider-Man and futurama, and Batman Beyond as well. There can be 3D effects in 2D games, and they're not pre-rendered. Final Fantasy 7-9 are pre rendered 2D backgrounds with 3D modles, but the same can be done in reverse, using 2D sprites on a 3D background.

 

[Zora]

Do you know the what 3D means: Width, Height, and Length. It is impossible to put all those in a 2D setting which is only Height and Width. So 2.5 is Height Width and Len?

Does your so-called new demision look anything like this?
(warning 56K)
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7171/zerovscutman8mu.jpg

 

[Alastor DMc]

lololol, oh, you got me. You're thinking mathmatically, which is fine, but we're not speaking about math, we're speaking about computer games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5D this will explain to you, and everyone what the term means.

Yes, I do know what 3D means. But having 3D on a television, movie or computer screen is impossible. 3D in how it relates to us, involves showing the illusion of depth in a 2D world, by use of shadows and lighting, cammera angles and advanced animation. The original Super Mario Bros. is a flat, 2D world, where as games like Doom 2 and it's clones have the illusion of debth, while using a 2D environment.

By your deffinition, there is no such thing as 3D when it comes to animation, so therefore, this entire topic is pointless, right?

 

[Zora]

Ohh, I know what you are getting confused with. 3-D with 2-D perspective. These are likes of "3-D movies" where it is in 3-D, but you only ever see a 2-D perspective. Anyways back on topic, should or should there not be 3-D in the upcoming games.

 

[Jomei]

2D please, simply because I much prefer the look of the 2D graphics.

 

[Alastor DMc]

Ohh, I know what you are getting confused with. 3-D with 2-D perspective. These are likes of "3-D movies" where it is in 3-D, but you only ever see a 2-D perspective. Anyways back on topic, should or should there not be 3-D in the upcoming games.

It's not confusion, you're just not reading what I'm writing. But if that's the only way to feel like you're correct, well then be my guest and be ignorant to the world.

Back on topic, the games should retain the 2D look, but get a graphical overhaul. The DS is powerful, but nothing compared to the gamecube or PS2 by comparison. Towns, routes and everything in between should look one of two ways, either WAY more realistic, or WAY more cartoony, all the while retaining the 2D element. I do wish they'd get rid of the grid system though. It's silly, and makes for limited movement of the characters on the map.

 

[Zora]

I do wish they'd get rid of the grid system though. It's silly, and makes for limited movement of the characters on the map.

They can't. Because we have 4 comfirmed baby Pokemon we need breeding, which involves the grid system

 

[Eszett]

The Pokemon franchise has never been terribly high-caliber concerning the graphical potential of the times when each version was developed on account of the exorbitant amounts of data that must be stored about moves, Pokemon, maps, and everything in between those factors. Yet, at the same time, while it doesn't use the most fancy-looking graphics that was available at the time, since at least the 2nd generation it has tried to make up for that by showing a good demonstration of artistic talent. The same thing occurred in the 3rd generation; while not many graphical technological advents were used in its creation, it is evident that a good amount of time was put into drawing the sprites.

For this reason, I do not see Diamond and Pearl using 3D technology, especially not in full. Mind you, they'll make it look like a polished game, but at the same time they'll do it without having to use state-of-the-art graphics. After all, pretty looks only go so far to make a game more entertaining.

 

[Alastor DMc]

How so? The game could just as easily record how long you've been walking for, instead of just how many grid steps you've taken. You're also going across an axis in the game, and it can easily measure how far you've gone that way. Steps are just how we measure it now, but another measurement could replace it.

Going with what Eszett said, I feel pokemon has always been about imagination, which is why the game has so much lasting appeal to me. The fact that your character doesn't speak, and your pokemon don't interact with anyone but other monsters means to really enjoy the game, you have to imagine yourself what they'd say, and do in the situations. As a result, you can go back over and over again, and have a different story within the same game. The 3D games, (lolololol, sorry, really cool 2D, since 3D doesn't exist in anything) lacked this, because you could see so much of what was going on. As a result I never played through coloseum more then once and never bothered to buy XD.

 

[mr robato]

I am pro 2-D

I would like the battles to look more realistic, but i thought stadiums fighting was much worse, because it was so fake...I would like it to look about as good as Pokemon Ranger...with more realistic 2-D

 

[Natirasha]

2D. PLEASE! not only would 3D take up much memory, but we would end up with Stadium 1-level graphics IF WERE LUCKY.

Now, I haven't played Ranger, but from what I've seen, the graphics have a slick style with them. More likely,we'll end up with a version of Ranger's graphics.(but in the end, I would play pokemon if it ws text or ACSII based, so graphics IDC about)