Observer
Mostly watching
So pretty much like the first two Black and White games but with a few minor tweaks? Not bad.
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Things you are mad at that the anime didn’t do/take advantage of
- Thread starter Sham
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So pretty much like the first two Black and White games but with a few minor tweaks? Not bad.
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
I might write a fic based of the BW games plot where Ash and Serena’s son, who doesn’t want to train Pokémon because he thinks it’s inhumane, temporary joins Team Plasma but then leaves after he finds an abused Purrloin. Ash is there with his son too and they get separated for a bit. His son builds a team to defeat Plasma and then goes off on his own journey to one day battle side by side with his father as his equal.
uncutpokemon
hi
No, just the 1st one. The follow up game kinda made them generic bad guys.
Observer
Mostly watching
Those are the ones I was talking about, the original Black and White games not Black 2 and White 2.
Mythical-Moonlight
I just ran, I ran all Night and Day ~
While I'm not really mad that the Anime didn't go down this route
I still think this could've been interesting
(Also their designs all match the Starters that's a fun coincidence)
I still think this could've been interesting
(Also their designs all match the Starters that's a fun coincidence)
It's weird the show uses villains so much given they're so generic most of the time. Either super one note evil mc evil face types or jokes that are so harmless that stopping them isn't even an accomplishment. Like, in the same series, they felt they had to make Team Rocket like every other flat generic sinister bad guy for them to climb the ladder and be a real threat.
And really, with Team Plasma, the really key thing I think was missed there was it could have been a cool link to Shudo's original ending for the show, with the Pokemon liberation and the whole trainer occupation treated as a scam. Sure, it's unlikely the anime would EVER actually go for that for real, but having a character actually put that on the table in universe would be an interesting little tidbit of depth reusing old discarded concepts.
Gingertail24
Well-Known Member
The closest to complex was Lysander. But when the anime tried to explain his backstory, it was so funny how they were trying to make it complex when it really wasn't
I tried to help people, but People got greedy so his. solution was mass genocide?
Idk I think the issue is the characters in the anime aren't really all that complex, especially ash. His response to Lysander was just basically the generic, "people and pokemon should live together". What made it worse was when everyone around him was just parroting what he said with no depth
Sham
The Guardian of War
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Misty in terms of goal development, considering the fact that of course the writing is going to get better as the series goes on. Main characters should have better goal arcs than she had. She just was the first Pokegirl but I think they’ve made up for it in sequential appearances.
I feel like it's possible to do something powerful even with a simplistic character, like many say rivals are more effective for getting unique dynamics from the protagonists than the villains. The antagonists just don't have this power to them most of the time, even the 'strong' villains feel utterly ineffectual because of it. The heroes blank them most of the time, and often they don't even get the satisfaction of offering a unique challenge, some plot armour takes them down.
I feel like the AF arc was an understated but decent example of Ash feeling more emotionally challenged and questioning whether he'd made good decisions normally (though with his human comrades rather than his Pokemon), but not through the villain. The villain was a slapdash as they could get with that one.
Gingertail24
Well-Known Member
I feel like a good antagonist is a mirror of the main character. But when the mc is as simple as ash who doesn't seem to have any nuance, it can be hard.
I feel like maybe the closest is Guzma, who sorta works as a good antithesis.
Both started off petulant insecure kids who couldn't handled failure, but while Ash by that point had developed into a content and thick skinned character, Guzma was someone who went down the slippery slope because of those losses, targeting people even lamer than him for some push of ego and just deciding the spoil the fun for everyone else. Guzma actually made a decent final roadblock before Ash's victory.
I feel like Ash has enough characteristics to make this work really, the problem is that the anime doesn't really try, again it prefers rivals for this sort of thing. Even Guzma was technically more an official opponent.
I feel like this might also be why Team Rocket are kind of struggling for relevence. While they have moderated their roles to more entertaining ones now, the problem is that they still don't feel all that vital to the protagonists' development, they're not really foils for them in any significant way (besides sometimes Pikachu against Meowth, and even those moments are sporadic). It leads them to feel irrelevent.
Like I get that's part the point, that they have chosen an occupation they are doomed to be little more than interfering nuisances in, but you'd think they'd find more ways to work around this. Like maybe they are far more intergral in their other ambitions like performer rivals and what not when they're not trying to be bad guys, but again they are usually still self contained from them. I feel like the nearest to toying with this idea is the XY 'Jeeves' episode, where James relates to Braixen's situation from a childhood one, and shrewdly nudges Serena the right direction so she puts it together. I feel like we should get more moments like that with the main cast.
There's also the OS Princess tournament episode I suppose, though less favourably, since Jessie's backstory was ironically less petty than Misty's.
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It's jarring because she was a main character for 275 episodes, meaning literally double the amount of time that anyone else.
Most main girls are only around roughly 140 eps or so, Misty was around for nearly 300. To be around nearly 300 eps and have the absolute bare minimum of focus on her role/goal/pokemon was jarring. Look at how Johto is plagued with filler when they could have removed those eps and given Misty a character arc.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Him using the game line of a beautiful world but saying it in context of seeing the city engulfed in Zygarde vines made me spit my drink and laugh out loud XD
They should have stuck with him wanting to use Zygarde's energy coupled with the anistar sundial to destroy the world and start anew rather than using Zygarde to destroy city with vines lol
Although I have to wonder, how would he keep him and the chosen ones alive with the anistar sundial plan anyway, in the games the ultimate weapon could be chosen on who to fire with, how did anime lysandre have the same security?
U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
We really should have gotten characters who never were able to debut in the anime proper be participants in the PWC.
It’s actually even more insulting when you realize the real life ideology Lysandre’s is based on. Malthusian thought is one of the reasons the Great Famine of Ireland was so terrible. Somehow the poor and less fortunate were more morally corrupt. Lysandre is an intimidating villain, but he is the least sympathetic villain who tries to be sympathetic.
It’s actually even more insulting when you realize the real life ideology Lysandre’s is based on. Malthusian thought is one of the reasons the Great Famine of Ireland was so terrible. Somehow the poor and less fortunate were more morally corrupt. Lysandre is an intimidating villain, but he is the least sympathetic villain who tries to be sympathetic.
Gingertail24
Well-Known Member
Once again, well done with the mini essay lol.I feel like maybe the closest is Guzma, who sorta works as a good antithesis.
Both started off petulant insecure kids who couldn't handled failure, but while Ash by that point had developed into a content and thick skinned character, Guzma was someone who went down the slippery slope because of those losses, targeting people even lamer than him for some push of ego and just deciding the spoil the fun for everyone else. Guzma actually made a decent final roadblock before Ash's victory.
I feel like Ash has enough characteristics to make this work really, the problem is that the anime doesn't really try, again it prefers rivals for this sort of thing. Even Guzma was technically more an official opponent.
I feel like this might also be why Team Rocket are kind of struggling for relevence. While they have moderated their roles to more entertaining ones now, the problem is that they still don't feel all that vital to the protagonists' development, they're not really foils for them in any significant way (besides sometimes Pikachu against Meowth, and even those moments are sporadic). It leads them to feel irrelevent.
Like I get that's part the point, that they have chosen an occupation they are doomed to be little more than interfering nuisances in, but you'd think they'd find more ways to work around this. Like maybe they are far more intergral in their other ambitions like performer rivals and what not when they're not trying to be bad guys, but again they are usually still self contained from them. I feel like the nearest to toying with this idea is the XY 'Jeeves' episode, where James relates to Braixen's situation from a childhood one, and shrewdly nudges Serena the right direction so she puts it together. I feel like we should get more moments like that with the main cast.
There's also the OS Princess tournament episode I suppose, though less favourably, since Jessie's backstory was ironically less petty than Misty's.
And yeah, clearly TR are best when they are working on personal goal stuff than catching Pikachu
Captain Jigglypuff
*On Vacation. Go Away!*
I also thought he was one of the more rational and reasonable villains in the series. Yes his main goal was extreme but he also believed it could help Kalos and end needless fighting.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Anime!Lysandre's main goal was all over the place.
Import a random Legendary Giant Rock from Hoenn so that it can mutate with (unseen) Mega Evolution energy with Zygarde cells which later used a freakin' Chespin as a core somehow. Like, wow.
Import a random Legendary Giant Rock from Hoenn so that it can mutate with (unseen) Mega Evolution energy with Zygarde cells which later used a freakin' Chespin as a core somehow. Like, wow.
Sham
The Guardian of War
I mean they did try to wipe out all of humanity
They were serious THREATS but not serious CHARACTERS. They were basically pretentious idiots with a dangerous amount of power.
They warranted being stopped but not being treated with dignity and grandeur. They only thought they did.
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