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This is it

Yo. With 4th Gen coming to an end, and myself just losing interest in Pokemon altogether, I figured I should post one final RMT. As some of you may or may not know, I spent(wasted) the last year and a half of my life playing competitive Pokemon. I've met some great people, and had a lot of laughs(team walrus peeps). But now I must say goodbye. This team is probably the best team I've ever made and has beaten some pretty notable players. No laddering achievements because, let's face it, the ladder has sucked *** the last few months, and I didn't feel any sort of accomplishment would come from it. So I'm just gonna finish any tournaments I'm currently involved in and maybe a few OU tours over the next month or two. This team was supposed to be completely based around Crocune but it turned into a team based around abusing Entry Hazards layed down by Forretress. Every member of my team, with the possible exception of my lead, takes great advantage of the Entry Hazards, and can often overwhelm my opponents by themselves. Nicknames are of cool people I've met via Pokemon.


@ Lum Berry *** Blue Harvest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/240 Atk/16 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch

Rockless Metagross is just a spectacular lead. It won the best lead contest on Marriland a while back, and with good reason. It comes out on top around 80-90% of the time and will almost always give me early momentum. I knew when choosing a lead for my team, that I would need something to take on Roserade as Crocune is quite the 'iffy' switch-in since Sleep Powder misses work in my opponent's favor, and puts the following turn down to a 50/50 "prediction". Machamp has also become a huge lead in these last few months, and it definitely had to be stopped since I don't really wanna let Suicune take damage early on. It may seem like I could just run Stealth Rock over Earthquake and free up a moveslot on Heatran, but Earthquake allows me to hit opposing Metagross leads, and usually does enough to Roserade that I don't have to use Meteor Miss. Metagross also lures in bulky electrics such as Rotom and Zapdos, which are easy chances for Heatran to get up Stealth Rock anyway. Explosion is huge on this set as well, as it is a huge help against late game threats such as Curselax and Crocune, and even Shaymin who can be huge assholes due to the defensive nature of my team, and Metagross is often around lategame.

(M) @ Leftovers *** Applebutter2
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Payback

Easily the most valuable member of my team. Thanks to his Specially Defensive spread, he is also able to find easy setup on my lead's counters barring the Fire-types, obviously. Forretress is a great check to Ghost-types such as Gengar and Rotom, who can be very troublesome. While Impish nets you more EV gain, Careful has a huge advantage since it lives 2 Focus Blasts from Gengar and avoids a 4HKO from defensive-minded Rotom. It is also probably my best LO Starmie check lol. It tanks a Surf or Hydro Pump and does a ton back with Payback. The only problem is bringing it on a resisted attack or Recover. There's not really much to say about Forretress as it's fairly obvious what it's meant to do.

@ Life Orb *** Heist
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

Definitely needed someone to prevent my hazards from being spun away since Forretress wasn't gonna get too many chances to setup again with no Recovery of any sort. This is an amazing set that I'm sad to say I only recently discovered. It obviously plays very similar to SubSplit Gengar, and may even seem outclassed. However, it has a few very important advantages. The main reason I run this over Gengar is simply the Electric resistance, and the ability to take on Zapdos that can get past Heatran. Heatran can easily be worn down since I'm not running ResTalk, and Offensive LO can put a quick stop to Suicune, even with a Calm Mind under its belt. This set also takes on Bulky Waters much, much better. Higher defenses allow Rotom to take any Surfs that come its way, and STAB Thunderbolt is obviously helping. Sadly, this is my best Lucario check, so **** you Jolly Luke users. Main Offensive Suicune check as I can easily sub down and beat it since Toxic Spikes should ALWAYS be down. Rotom is amazing with Entry Hazards since Substitute in itself is probably the best move for EH abuse, and it beats Blissey with 2 layers of T-spikes, or if they can't hit me.

@ Leftovers *** Nosferalto
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP/16 Spd/240 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower

Specially Defensive Heatran is another set that's really made its mark on the metagame. I use this to check Jolteon, Rotom-A, and Zapdos since they all fail to even 2HKO this behemoth. It brings great resistances to Ghost and Dragon, 2 of the most threatening types in the metagame at the moment. Along with Suicune, the two form and excellent core, easily switching in on each other's counters, forcing them out, and posing a huge threat after. With the prevalence of Celebi, Jirachi, Rotom-A, Choice Heatran, I find many opportunities to setup Stealth Rock, and get very easy damage with Roar. The Speed EVs are just to get the speed creep advantage against other slow Heatran, while maintaining a ton of bulk, and the ability to counter non Specs, Life Orb Heatran, and Shaymin since it can take an Earth Power and KO in return.

@ Leftovers *** TheSpartan
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind

I'd always failed miserably with Crocune in the past, but this team is the exception. I may have been using it wrong, but late game, once I've got all my Entry Hazards up, this is usually good game. The combination of pressure and ResTalk is incredibly hard to break thanks to Suicune's godly defenses on both sides. I don't always find times to use this against more offensive teams, since even with Suicune's great defenses, a lot of **** is still 3HKOing, but against Stall, it's really my ace in the hole. Against these offensive teams Suciune matches up bad with, I still find use for it by using it to check Heatran and Infernape, and absorbing random sleeps. With Offensive Suciune being more common at the moment, I can easily bluff Ice Beam and HP Electric in a pinch which has proven huge against Dragonite, Breloom, and Gyarados.

(M) @ Choice Scarf *** Zapper22001
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- U-turn
- Thunderpunch

Flygon is just amazing. Rotom-a was probably the best Scarfer pre Latias/Salamence ban, but ScarfGon has definitely taken over. I seriously considered Jirachi for this spot, but I really appreciate the unique set of resists/immunities it brings to the team, as well as countering the **** out of boosting Infernape that can get past Suicune.. Jirachi has trouble finding a slot for U-turn as well, and would ultimately be Spikes fodder, and Flygon U-turning constantly means I practically only have one place for Skarmory to setup, that being Metagross. Thunderpunch is only there for Gyarados since Life Orb variants pose a huge threat, and Bulky Gyara as well if Rotom has taken any prior damage. Jolly is definitely the better nature. I can't tell you how many games I've won that ended in base 100 scarfers going at it.

Well that's the end of my thread. Au revoir.
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Threat list

Defensive Threats

Blissey - Not really a threat at all. With T-spikes down, Rotom-w makes quick work of her. Crocune does as well, and Cune can take any random T-waves or Toxics.

Bronzong - Bronzong is the perfect Forretress fodder. If for some reason Forretress is gone, I can just force it to Explode on Suicune. Heatran does good damage with Flamethrower, and resists Payback/Gyro Ball/HP Ice.

Celebi - Flygon is a good switch-in to defensive variants thanks to the T-wave immunity and U-turn. Flygon also takes on the odd SubSeed set fairly well. Heatran is a pretty hard counter to any set lacking Earth Power. Rotom-W easily 2HKOs.

Forretress - It's not getting many oppurtunites to setup since I'm usually always applying to much offensive pressure with Heatran/Suicune/Rotom-W and the fact that my own Forretress will spin its hazards away.

Gliscor - Suicune takes it on fairly well as Surf 2HKOs while I can rest off Toxic later. Rotom-W is also 2HKOing, Metagross can explode, and Flamethrower from Heatran does respectable damage assuming it comes in on Heatran(kinda unlikely).

Tentacruel - Tentacruel is really only setting up on Heatran. Forretress appreciates free EHs, Rotom-W appreciates what is usually a free sub, and Suicune appreciates free Calm Minds. Absorbing my T-spikes is very painful though.

Dusknoir - Setup fodder for Suicune. Rotom-W does a hell of a lot of damage with a Life Orb Shadow Ball. Metagross can take a WoW thanks to lum and do a huge number. Toxic Spikes also take a huge toll on Dusknoir, and it's easy to go to Rotom-W on a predicted Pain Split.

Gyarados - ResTalk variants are usually a free Sub for Rotom-W. I can also bluff HP Electric on Suicune, and gain a free Calm Mind assuming I haven't revealed Rest yet.

Hippowdon - Rotom-W is generally a good switch-in; they will usually switch in fear of a Hydro Pump. Suicune also takes it on fairly easily although Surf is no where near a OHKO, and it can Roar me away. Forretress can get a layer down or choose to spin if I think it will Roar.

Jirachi - Heatran is a great counter to all Defensive Jirachi. Flygon can come in 2HKO even the most Defensive variants if Heatran is KOd.

Rotom-A - Heatran is the best counter in existence. Thanks to Forretress' spread, it is a good counter capable of 3HKOing with Payback if they lack WoW while getting some Entry Hazards up.

Skarmory - I can KO or force it out with ease, but my best bet is usually to go to Forretress. Going to Forretress puts a lot of pressure on Skarmory as they're forced to choose between Taunting or going to a Ghost.

Snorlax - Curse sets really are annoying as ****. This is the main reason I don't boom Metagross early on. Heatran can Roar it away until it's taken enough damage from Spikes to be KOd by whatever I have in.

Suicune - Rotom-W can stop Crocune even after a Calm Mind unless it runs abnormally large amounts of SDef EVs. Metagross is also a decent method to fall back on. Entry Hazards definitely take their toll. ResTalk with Surf/Ice Beam or Hp Electric are Forretress fodder.

Swampert - Standard Mix Swampert can be annoying I suppose. Metagross has the option of Exploding, while Forretress can get a layer up or spin. Rotom-W does big damage with either Pain Split or Shadow Ball. Swampert's constant Roaring is annoying as hell though. Toxic Spikes are a godsend. Curse Variants just don't have time to setup other than Forretress.

Tyranitar - Metagross really says hi to all defensive Tyranitar. Those that don't run Curse or Fire Blast are inevitably Forretress fodder. Curse is easy - Just Phaze with Heatran and get a well timed Flygon or Metagross switch in.

Vaporeon - Toxic Spikes let just about anyone on my team beat it one on one with the exception of Heatran. Its constant Wishing does negate my Entry Hazard damage, but it usually can't keep it up.

Zapdos - lol Heatran. Rotom-W also does well since T-bolt from Defensive variants doesn't break my subs. Suicune can actually do well against them in my experience if I can get lucky with Sleep Talk.

Offensive Threats

Azelf - Heatran is a good stop to just about any. Metagross takes on non Life Orb leads handily. Flygon can revenge KO in a pinch.

Breloom - Breloom is annoying yo just about any team not running Gengar or Celebi. I try to bring Suicune in on Spore, obviously, but some people will sub or go for the Seed Bomb. If something else does get slept, I can bluff Ice Beam on Suicune later on. It also takes huge damage from Heatran/Rotom-W/Metagross.

Gengar - Man, I don't think I've ever had a team be less Gengar weak. Suicune sets up those lacking T-bolt or Explosion. Forretress counters HP Fire-less sets. Heatran can live a Focus Blast and do huge damage back with Flamethrower. Flygon revenge KOs in a pinch.

Gyarados - Flygon can always revenge. Rotom-W obviously OHKOs although it takes a ton of damage from Waterfall. Suicune can bluff HP Electric. Metagross can explode.

Heatran - Suicune can setup or force it to explode on any set except Modest Specs/Life ORb carrying a super-effective Hidden Power. Flygon can always revenge KO. Rotom-W can force it out if I haven't revealed my moveset and T-bolt is a clean 2HKO.

Dragonite - Triple Steel ftw. My 3 Dragon resists are great against Mix Nite, and Flygon easily revenges Dragon Dancers.

Aerodactyl- Metagross kinda booty rapes leads and even Life Orb. Flygon can revenge. Suicune takes pitiful damage.

Infernape - Suicune is a great counter to all non-boosting Infernape sets. Flygon can take on any that do use Nasty Plot or Swords Dance. Toxic Spikes are very useful against Infernape.

Jolteon - Toxic Spikes are great for taking it down faster, lowering the chances I accidentally bring Flygon in on a HP Ice

Ninjask - lol Heatran

Smeargle - Metagross handily beats leads, the only common set.

Heracross - Suicune can do good damage and tank its hits fairly well. Rotom-W outspeeds and easily 2HKOs all but the most Specially Defensive. Metagross easily beats one on one.

Kingdra - Rain Dance is annoying and just requires careful switching between my 3 Steels and Suicune. Dragon Dance is dealt with rather easily by Flygon. Toxic Spikes force the annoying Chest Rest sets to rest early. Metagross can tank anything and explode if needed.

Lucario - I ****ing hate Jolly Lucario. Rotom-W is a pretty good stop to Adamant, but Jolly can be really annoying. Flygon has a chance to live a Jolly +2 E-Speed but cannot have taken any prior damage. Suicune can live a +2 Close Combat but Surf isn't doing nearly enough. Otherwise, I just have to play around it, limit its chances to setup. Jolly is definitely the biggest threat to this team.

Machamp - Metagross beats leads, all other sets are beaten by my Entry Hazards and just giving it limited chances to come in.

Magnezone - When it removes Forretress I usually rage. What a *******. I run Shed Shell in tournaments because of it. Heatran is a hard counter.

Mamoswine - Mamoswine really ain't ****. Rotom-W doesn't like Choice Banded Attacks, but walls Mamo fairly easily, and 2HKOs like it's nothing. Suicune is in the same boat. Metagross can Bullet Punch it if necessary I guess.

Metagross- Jolly Agility with Zen Headbutt can be a big ****. Suicune can do enough damage combined with Life Orb and Entry Hazards to check it fairly well. Those lacking Zen Headbutt can't really get past Rotom. My own Metagross can do big damage with Earthquake. Flygon revenges.

Electivire - Flygon revenges if it gets motor drive boost. Not a problem.

Flygon - Setup fodder for Suicune. For mixed variants see Dragonite.

Togekiss - Annoying, but easily revenged, and Heatran takes piddly squat from all but boosted Aura Spheres. Flygon is immune to T-wave and does a lot with Outrage. Stealth Rock is great.

Weavile - Suicune sets up, Forretress sets up, Metagross KOs. Not a threat.

Scizor - Choice is great as its free Entry Hazards. Rotom-W can get a free sub on the appropriate attack. Fast SDers are annoying, but very rare. Standard SD are countered by Heatran.

Tyranitar - Metagross and Flygon are one duo this ******* doesn't wanna meet. Flygon easily revenges non Shuca DD, and Metagross is a tough Rock resist. Choice Crunches/Pursuits are Forretress fodder. Scarf is setup fodder for a lot.

Starmie - Entry Hazards really take their toll on Life Orb Starmie. If it has Rapid Spin I'm even less worried since it can't keep Recovering. Forretress can tank a hit easily and a do a ton with Payback. Metagross can also explode. Flygon can revenge in a pinch. Starmie sets on more defensive sets. I'm by no means weak to Starmie considering this is a balanced style of team.

Zapdos - Only annoying because they stop Suicune. Heatran counters fairly well, and Flygon revenges.

Witch of 'Cos

i love the pee pees
Read intro. Control+f "gingbino11" no results.


Infernape (and jolly luke with crunch) is really the only issue I see doing major to this team on it's own. 2HKO's almost everyone (meta/cune can live) and almost OHKOing your "check" in flygon, and will more than likely switch out at the first sign of a flygon.

Other than that, good and I will probably not give a proper rate later 3:


aka nosferalto
thanks for the mention man. really sad to see you go considering you're the only serebii noob im still in touch with!

btw lo starmie weak (jk)

also gave your team some luv

edit: who exactly IS thespartan?
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lol some kid from irc. pretty good at pokes, and funny as hell
@ Lum Berry *** Blue Harvest


Wait, ****. If you leave who else will laugh at my subtly racist jokes? You'd better come back for 5th gen.

Anyhow, if you really hate Jolly Lucario just run a Sub Pain Split Gengar in Rotom's spot. I wouldn't worry about Zapdos too much since its not terribly common any more and it won't get by Heatran (or Flygon). You lose a little defense against Suicune but you can still beat him. Gengar also checks Infernape.

Flygon does well with Adamant unless theres some random threat it doesn't outspeed I'm forgetting about. Unless you really hate Scarf Jirachi. You still outrun all +1 Gyarados, Dragonite and Scarf Rotom.

Offensive SD Scizor can 6-0 you as it outruns your whole team besides Rotom who will die to a +2 Bug Bite + Extremespeed. You can just add some speed to Heatran if you want.

Take 12 HP and 12 Attack EVs off Metagross and put them into Speed. Nearly all other lead Metagross run more than the Smogon standard, 40 EVs will pretty much guarantee you go first. You don't lose any KOs or get KOed from anything.


Wait, ****. If you leave who else will laugh at my subtly racist jokes? You'd better come back for 5th gen.
lol 5th gen

Anyhow, if you really hate Jolly Lucario just run a Sub Pain Split Gengar in Rotom's spot. I wouldn't worry about Zapdos too much since its not terribly common any more and it won't get by Heatran (or Flygon). You lose a little defense against Suicune but you can still beat him. Gengar also checks Infernape.
eh even if I run Gengar I still lose to ***ets running Bullet Punch which is almost as common as Jolly anyway.

Flygon does well with Adamant unless theres some random threat it doesn't outspeed I'm forgetting about. Unless you really hate Scarf Jirachi. You still outrun all +1 Gyarados, Dragonite and Scarf Rotom.
I considered this too, except adamant Agility Gross can really hurt since it actually 2HKOs Suicune and Rotom-W. Jolly can't 2HKO Suicune so it's not a problem.

Offensive SD Scizor can 6-0 you as it outruns your whole team besides Rotom who will die to a +2 Bug Bite + Extremespeed. You can just add some speed to Heatran if you want.
lol fast Scizor did sweep me once. probably will bump the speed up if it ever gets common.
Take 12 HP and 12 Attack EVs off Metagross and put them into Speed. Nearly all other lead Metagross run more than the Smogon standard, 40 EVs will pretty much guarantee you go first. You don't lose any KOs or get KOed from anything.
sounds good
u guess??
lol Rotom.

Oh wait I have a real rate. Sassy on Forretress. It gives you a better chance to use Payback and by going second you can fight enemy Forretress better by Spinning the hazards they lay or lay your own after they spin. It keeps you in control.

Mail Time

yo dont drop rotom!

as i said, id rather if you led with dropped meta, you then lead with forretress and run cmwishrachi >> meta.

i use 176 spe timid on jirachi and you can do the same too! just let something take the cc then you can ko it.

id also run lava plume on heatran then as if you can burn a pert or a ttar or some **** jirachi has an even easier time.

wish support is also really good for your team, especially forry and heatran.

lead machamps arent really a threat as you can beat them two ways if you were to drop meta. pivot from rotom >> jirachi and psychic, or just go to crocune and just stall it out of dpunch pp. if you manage to, you can just ko it or go to forry for free hazards.

there was another reason but i cant remember...


aka nosferalto
if you go with jirachi, use a sub cm jirachi, sets up really easily and subs get really hard to break after setting up. you can also sub twice in lucario's face while it cc and you can ohko with psychic because of the defense drop
I wouldn't recommend Jirachi, but I hate Jirachi so that's complete bias. All they seem to do is hax to death. Besides, Metagross is badass.

You didn't wanna take Blue Harvest's earlier suggestion for sub-split Gengar > Rotom because of Scizor, and you do have weaknesses to both Ape and SD Scizor. You could run this to remedy both:

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 Def
-Shadow Ball
-HP Fire
-Pain Split

You switch in Gengar to something that can't hurt it, sub as they switch into Scizor, and your sub takes a Bullet Punch as you OHKO with LO HP Fire. LO HP Fire is also always an OHKO on Lucario with SR up. Also, Breloom looks like a little bit of a problem as this team doesn't have much speed. You could swap out LO for a Lum Berry to counter Breloom. I actually run the Lum Berry set on my team as a Breloom counter and they fall for it every time. However, you lose your ability to OHKO Lucario without Life Orb.
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Sub Gengar doesn't need HP Fire to beat Scizor nor does it help at all against SD Scizor. After a Substitute Pain Split + Focus Blast is a 100% 2HKO on Scizor.

He also has Heatran. A few Speed EVs (or not) and SD Scizor is no threat.