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this won't be half as good as I want it to be [OU RMT]

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Reno, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. Reno

    Reno so adorable...

    so, this is the first team I have posted in... a while. I made it like, an hour and a half ago, have been testing since then, and it has a 100% win record so far. but that doesn't really mean much, the actual team is more important.

    the team at a glance​


    the team in detail

    Swampert @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP/176 Def/80 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Counter
    - Mirror Coat
    - Stealth Rock
    - Protect
    something I thought would be fun to play with. requires sublime prediction, or it will fail miserably. the EVs actually let it take a standard celebi's grass knot and survive, including possible stealth rock damage, meaning it can be mirror coated to death. counter and mirror coat cover both sides of the attacking spectrum, and depending on the pokemon itself, its position in the team, and what item and what not, I'll use either move. stealth rock is stealth rock, one of the most useful moves in the game. protect is great on a lead. it ruins explosion strategies if I predict correctly and helps with countercoating.

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    standard scizor. bullet punch is amazing and really helps clean up late game. u-turn is great for scouting and early game, where a lot of switching happens to scout the other team, which is free damage. pursuit is awesome if predicted correctly, but it is going to be pretty strong regardless. superpower ruins any steels trying to crash the party, and is also a massive nuke attack on something like swampert.

    Latias @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Recover
    - Grass Knot
    great scizor bait. a lot of them pursuit or u-turn, which means they eat a hidden power [fire]. pretty sure bullet punch doesn't ko anyway. dragon pulse is a great, reliable attack, that hits for neutral damage on a lot of targets. great move. recover is awesome and sounds more elegant than roost. latias is pretty elegant so, whatever. hidden power [fire] is for scizor, basically. thunderbolt I went with as I decided to run energy ball on gengar, but I'm torn between surf, thunderbolt, and grass knot.

    surf hits heatran and works great with dragon pulse.
    grass knot ruins swampert and suicune, as well as hurting tyranitar, who switches in a lot.
    thunderbolt provides me a check to gyarados, to an extent. latias isn't often fast enough to land the crucial hit. it also hits heatran for neutral, which is helpful sometimes, and still hurts suicune.

    Gengar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Explosion
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    first time I have used scarf gengar. using it mainly for a fast boom, but the extra special attack is nice. shadow ball is great and the random special defence drop really screws people over. focus blast murders tyranitar and any other darks and steels. it also pairs great with shadow ball. energy ball makes this my swampert check, but it also helps with a few other pokemon like suicune and what not. however, I might switch it to thunderbolt and switch latias to grass knot.

    Machamp @ Choice Band
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 204 HP/252 Atk/52 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Sleep Talk
    - Payback
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    oturuns minimum speed tyranitar, just in case. sleep talk means it can take sleep from lead roserade and deal some serious damage back. payback wrecks rotom-a, especially if they decide to wow him. stone edge hurts gyarados and salamence, basically. close combat is a powerhouse move. the downside is losing machamp's bulk through the defence and special defence drops, but otherwise it has no downsides as a move.

    Metagross @ Life Orb
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 60 HP/252 Atk/196 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Agility
    - Earthquake
    - Meteor Mash
    - Thunderpunch
    last pokemon metagross. after an agility it outspeeds neutral base 100s with +1 speed, as they hit 449. metagross hits 450. earthquake is great coverage with the other moves, is a powerhouse move, and hammers steel and fire types that want to take meteor mash. meteor mash is the signature move of metagross. high power, ok accuracy, and an attack raising side effect. amazing. thunderpunch is good coverage, helps me break down last pokemon crocune, and the general trash like skarmory.

    team overview

    so yeah, it is pretty reliant on surprise factor, revenge killing, and prediction. it is a pretty fun team to play with, and if I like it enough, I'll do some nicknames. it probably has some obscene weaknesses I haven't looked at, but I haven't found any yet. I know this probably wasn't as good looking or detailed as I could have made it, but oh well.
  2. palingensia

    palingensia amends

    You're probably better off with Grass Knot on Latias and Thunderbolt on Gengar. Gengar can revenge Gyarados much better than Latias anyway, since it's scarfed.

    How do you deal with MixMence? I would assume you just play around it and let LO/Stealth Rock damage kill it? I'm also concerned about DDMence, since the only thing you have that can take it out is Scizor or going bang with Gengar, but if you're fine with sacing a member to kill it I don't have a problem.

    You seem to be kinda stall weak as well, but really the only ways I can think of remedying this either make you Scizor or Gyarados weak.

    Otherwise good team Reno, it's good to see the boss post a RMT lol.
  3. Reno

    Reno so adorable...

    salamence I normally just go stealth rock damage hopefully to scizor, gengar, or latias revenge. not ideal, but it is one of the best ways to deal with salamence. I only have to sac either gengar or scizor, as the other can finish the job with no harm. if it gets down to the very worst case possible, if pert is still alive I could try and land a counter or mirror coat.

    I'll probably change grass knot and thunderbolt blah blah round in a second.
  4. calze6

    calze6 Reclaiming da ladder

    Nice team. Machamp may do better with flame orb as it blocks status and still has the power.
  5. Indragon

    Indragon Back in the USSR

    For Latias, I suggest you try out this set:

    Latias @ Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/4 HP
    -Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
    -Recover/Grass Knot

    The good thing here is that with LO Surf you can 2HKO Scizor and most Tyranitar reducing the need for HP Fire and giving you better overall coverage. TBolt gets a neutral hit on steels and Scizor, putting it into range for a finishing Surf/TBolt, plus it hits Suicune and Gyara. A bit reliant on prediction, but like you said, a lot of your team already is :p. Grass Knot is if you really need to remove Swampert but Recover lets you hang on a bit more.

    TBolt/HP Ice on Gengar over Energy Ball, but that depends on what you run on Latias.

    Have you tried out No Guard DynamicPunch Machamp. The confusion can be very handy and it patches up Stone Edge's accuracy too. Machamp still remains a sleep absorber but although you won't receive the Guts boost, perfect accuracy, DPunch and no defense loss could compensate for that.
  6. Reno

    Reno so adorable...

    I was running no guard before, but I didn't like being wow'd by rotom, as machamp is normally my main switch in. I like being able to wreck hard.

    I'll probably run tbolt on gengar and grass knot on latias, as shadow ball deals like 50% to salamence anyway, making it easily revenged.

    For Latias, I suggest you try out this set:

    tbh I like expert belt a lot more on latias than life orb. sandstorm and stealth rock are already ruining her health, and combined with life orb, it is ridiculous. it also means I can bluff scarf, which helps with surprise kills. I'll run dragon pulse/grass knot/hidden power fire/recover, although if heatran starts to be a big problem, I'll rearrange some stuff.

    I always switch machamp into rotom though. this either gives him a choice scarf and is then burned, or is damaged then burned, or burned on switch in. regardless, he gets an extra 1.5 boost. not many people expect cbmachamp now, so will have EVed their rotom to take a normal machamp payback, whereas this will be a choice band guts payback, easily koing.
  7. benttwig33

    benttwig33 Forum n00b!

    I say Standard Mixpert starter Swampert would own the one you have. I vote to change it! check smogon o_O
  8. CreepacisT

    CreepacisT Upcoming WiFi GOD

    I think flame orb is a better option, too.
    One, it creates a sleep absorber that soesnt need sleep talk, so you can put another move in for better coverage.
    Two, flame orb plus guts is like a non choiced choice band. You can switch between moves. So basically unless you get burned on the switchin, which you said is what you usually do, you have the same power plus the ability to switch moves.
    But it does mean you'll be giving up an early game sleep absorber, so its up to you.

    EDIT in bold. said toxic originally.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  9. randomspot555

    randomspot555 Well-Known Member

    I've gotta run off to work later (if you're on Smogon shoddy, you can test the team against me. nick is notthegoatseguy), but you've got three Choice items. I know someone made an All Choice team some time ago, but I think that's a bit much.

    I've been getting screwed by 90% accurate moves recently. If you get frustrated with Focus Blast, get Trick instead. The other option is removing Explosion, which will be to spin-block throughout the game.

    I think your team could have some trouble dealing with status unless you go RestTalk on Machamp (and I rarely use RestTalk sets, so someone else can tell you if that's a good idea). Why not go for defensive Scizor? Clear out Taunt users early on and use this:

    Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP/184 Atk/72 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Brick Break
    - Bullet Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute

    I'm sure I put the 72 spd EVs there for a reason, but I can't remember why. Your choice over which #1 attack you want, but I found Brick Break to be the most useful.
  10. yee

    yee Well-Known Member

    The 72 speed evs on that scizor set were probably to outrun magnezone so you could ohko it with superpower and not get ohkoed by hp fire.
  11. Blackace

    Blackace ♥ Final Fantasy XIII

    Before I even start rating I want to say.

    OMG FINAL FANTASY XIII. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 I want it so bad.....

    I was always interested in how good Serebii RMT Moderators were at Pokemon.


    I find Swampert able to take a Grass Knot absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely (Did I mention absolutely?) useless. Lead Celebi never ever carry Grass Knot only Leaf Storm because lead Celebi is more of a set-up-Stealth Rock-and-then-hit-and-run-Pokemon. Also why would you even let Swampert stay in even if it could take a Leaf Storm. Letting Swampert take such a solid hit means it is useless and you probably WON'T be able to set up Stealth Rocks. So in general good idea and very creative but not on Celebi. Therefore I would change the Evs I don't know what to but more something physically defensive as 8/10 leads are mainly or fully physical. Azelf doesn't really count however as you got protect. EDIT! Oh I was just thinking I would really just replace Light Screen with Earthquake because one it lets you take on Sword Dance Scizor and stops its from sweeping. Secondly looking at the top ten special leads they are Roserade and Heatran. Roserade is a no go zone. Heatran just Earthquake it really and also Swampert gets STABBed. 248 Hp 248 Defence 12 Speed. 12 Speed allows you to set up Stealth Rocks before other leads and outspeed majority or Blisseys and Tyranitar (Choice Banded versions) if memory serves me right. Also 248 gives you 403 Hp meaning you can switch into Stealth Rock more not really useless but nice to just have it there.

    Scizor Evs are standard but I rarely ever use Standard Smogon unless it is obviously the best. I run 248 Hp (So I can switch into Stealth Rock more.) 20 Speed to outspeed other Scizors and Superpower before they do. Never EVER play the Superpower game (Which is let them Superpower first and then get the Defense drop and then I Superpower when you got Pokemon like Gengar, Latias and Metagross who can set up on the Superpower. Absolute waste of a Scizor.) Rest in Attack.

    LOLOLOLOL AT RECOVER OVER ROOST IN LATIAS. Don't do it. Please. Roost gives it neutral to Stone Edge but allowing it to get hit by Earthquake which is a great trade off as you must have great prediction to Earthquake on the turn Latias in Roosting (Unless in a PP Stall war.) and many people don't even know Roost lets Earthquake hit you.

    I really prefer Choice Scarf Heatran over Gengar but Gengar is faster and provides immunity to Ground attacks meaning it works better with Metagross...However... Meh what ever.

    Running Sleep + Rest Talk Machamp with Choice Band is rather........pointless. You use an attack get Spored or Sleep Powdered Machamp is officially set up fodder until it switches but that one switch might be huge it might mean Smeargle gets a Substitute it might mean they get the better switching allowing Salamence to Dragon Dance up or something.

    I really don't like abusing status on a bulky Pokemon like Machamp I think Choice Band does get as burn off 12% each turn (Add Stealth Rock and maybe Sandstorm - Tyranitar is the 3rd used Pokemon in OU) and Machamp is dead quick. But if you go Choice Band maybe Sword Dance Scizor? I don't know Choice is so much more superior in nearly every aspect.

    I see Magnezone+Salamence combo (Which is so popular its ridiculous. Giving you problems.) Magnezone means Scizor is a dead and gone (Get it :3?) and a weakened Metagross is dead (But that doesn't matter as a Salamence with or without Dragon Dance will Earthquake you Kingdom come.
    (Extra big for the effect :3) So after one Dragon Dance with Scizor you mini Salamence check its game. Completely and utterly and your team doesn't pack enough power or variety of moves to make it hard for Salamence to set up on any guy especially with Intimidate. So quickly put Hidden Power on Gengar or man your dead.

    Gyarados also shoves a nice rusty shovel up your ;). With or without a Dragon Dance Gyarados hits two guys for Super Effective (Gengar should be included because he is just that fragile meaning one hit its gone.) The rest of your team is hit neutral to a STABBed Waterfall apart from Latias which eats Ice Fang for breakfast lunch and tea. Maybe putting Thunderbolt on Gengar over Focus Blast a pathetic move I think especially with 70% accuracy. Plus Machamp scares off Tyranitar so much more.

    Your team doesn't really look weak to Scizor on paper but with nothing except a fragile Gengar that carries so much weight on its shoulders (Checking Salamence and Gyarados..) I don't think you want to switch into a Bullet Punch. Nothing else resist a Choice Band U-Turn which with Stealth Rocks is going to absolute wreck especially as they can switch in something like a Latias to fire off Draco Meteors left and right. EDIT - Just thinking maybe you could replace Gengar with a Mix Choice Scarf Jirachi that runs Ice Punch and Thunderbolt (For Skarmory and Intimidating Gyarados?) takes Scizor a lot better and better bulk and because how stupidly insanely broken Jirachi's moveset and typing and stats are (LOL just joking but they are really good. Like REALLY good.) It will keep the opponent guessing till the end. Even if they see Choice Scarf they don't know if you are a Trick Jirachi, Physical, Special, Mix or whatever.

    However this means really you only have one special attacker. Bad news. I really don't see the point of Metagross in your team You already got Scizor with similar typing and moves and Machamp with Dynamic Punch so maybe Zapdos over it so you can handle Salamence and Gyarados better?

    Hmm. Whatever.

    Kind of a short rate but it will have to do I am writing up my utterly AMAZING RMT. (In presentation I mean) you see what I mean. You guys will fall off your chair. :3 its THAT amazing.
  12. Reno

    Reno so adorable...

    ok and, why? I already gave my reasons as to why I'm using countercoat. it also tests my skill as a player, as if I predict wrongly, the surprise is gone.

    however, I will be testing standard pert at some point.

    I also take 12% a turn when I might not be damaging anything. machamp is too slow to use flame orb well, I think. the ability to change moves while attacking is completely useless when something faster than you can come in and wreck you in a move. choice band wrecks in that one turn and is likely to be hit by wow from rotom as rotom is a common switch in to machamp, and my machamp is my switch in to rotom.

    focus blast has been too useful to remove, not to mention really helps with any tyranitar that switch in. explosion is pretty much required so I can revnge with no chance of failure, basically. 3 choice items has always worked for me, to be honest. I've never really been screwed by it. they all do different jobs anyway, it isn't like the two choice banders are that similar.

    I don't get how status is a massive problem, really. swampert can take anything, purely because he isn't going to be all that useful after using stealth rock. machamp can take anything and then start dropping some close combats. scizor, metagross, and gengar can all take toxic, and scizor can take thunderwave if he needs to.

    that scizor set looks interesting, but I don't know about it. I mainly used scizor for the

    Before I even start rating I want to say.

    OMG FINAL FANTASY XIII. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 I want it so bad.....

    I was always interested in how good Serebii RMT Moderators were at Pokemon.


    ok, I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about lead celebi. I thought I said standard celebi's grass knot tbh. I didn't say I'M GONNA COUNTER CELEBI WITH SWAMPERT. I just made the point that if I needed to, swampert can mirror coat grass knot back at celebi and survive 100% of the time, with stealth rock damage.

    heatran, just earthquake it. heatran runs shuca berry, it won't be killed that easily. 12 speed is completely pointless. stealth rock before other leads? if it is another swampert, I will be getting them up anyway. if it runs taunt, it is faster than swampert. swampert has never and will never be just used as a lead. it is a bulky pokemon, it will be there for later game. this is no exception.

    this has straight away made me dislike you. a lot. LOLOLOLOL LATIAS ISN'T PART FLYING TYPE. before you start acting obnoxiously towards me, get simple facts right.

    and it is faster which means it can actually revenge all of the stuff it needs to. gengar is much harder to outspeed than heatran, and a lot of stuff is built to outspeed heatran.

    what. where is rest on machamp? sleep talk is there incase it gets slept, which activates guts, which means every single move is going to be a powerhouse with sleep talk.

    I don't get what you are saying here at all. don't run choice band because... it gets hurt by burn and dies too quickly?

    magnezone doesn't mean scizor is dead at all. you don't start throwing bullet punches out at the start of the game, you use u-turn so you can't be trapped by magnezone. metagross won't be brought out until late game, and as soon as it can, it will agility. this means it outspeeds this salamence that will Earthquake me Kingdom come.. my team doesn't pack enough power? I'm running two choice banders, one of the top late game sweepers in OU, and two of the hardest special hitters in the game, both of which outspeed salamence. gengar deals 50% with shadow ball and OHKOs with explosion. salamence deals more than 50% with bullet punch. latias outspeeds it unless it has a dragon dance and OHKOs it with dragon pulse. if metagross has an agility, salamence isn't outrunning it and is murdered by a meteor mash. if it comes down to it, swampert can countercoat something back, but that is the last straw. my point is, I have two revenge killers that, combined, deal more than enough damage to end salamence.

    Gyarados also shoves a nice rusty shovel up your ;). With or without a Dragon Dance Gyarados hits two guys for Super Effective (Gengar should be included because he is just that fragile meaning one hit its gone.) The rest of your team is hit neutral to a STABBed Waterfall apart from Latias which eats Ice Fang for breakfast lunch and tea. Maybe putting Thunderbolt on Gengar over Focus Blast a pathetic move I think especially with 70% accuracy. Plus Machamp scares off Tyranitar so much more.

    jirachi also makes me double up on weaknesses with metagross and I lose explosion. so... adding jirachi makes me awfully heatran weak.

    salamence destroys zapdos. draco meteor and outrage both ruin zapdos. gyarados will dragon dance on the switch and ruin zapdos with stone edge, waterfall, or ice fang. metagross is nothing like scizor. they are both steel type. that is like comparing mawile to magnezone. metagross is there as a last pokemon. it is hard to kill unless you have the right pokemon, and it hits hard and fast. scizor is there to weaken the other team and revenge hard to kill pokemon.


    grass knot>thunderbolt on latias
    thunderbolt>energy ball on gengar
    I will test standard mixpert
    I may test randomspot's scizor. I'll think about it and see how effective it would be.
  13. Blackace

    Blackace ♥ Final Fantasy XIII

    Kind of just glanced over it. Its really late.

    Some points I agree and some I don't.

    Like the Swampert. It really shouldn't take Celebi especially as Celebi is faster.

    And the 12 Speed Evs do kind of help. Faster Earthquake and should outspeed Blissey and Tyranitar (CB versions) as said before.

    I agree at the Latias thing.

    I can't for the love of God ever ever ever remember she isn't flying. Ever.

    I kind of read the Magnezone thing. Umm something to do with U-Turn and Bullet Punch Sorry its late. True Scizor is U-Turning all over the place but sooner or later you Bullet Punch to revenge kill something. Metagross should come out late game according to plans but after a Dragon Dance Metagross is going to be eating a Earthquake. You can agility yes but still Salamence is a threat.

    Lol sorry for the rather poorrrrrrrrrr rate. Not really a justification but sooooo tired. Maybe PM you tomorrow if I catch anything extra.

    NIGHT! :3

  14. Indragon

    Indragon Back in the USSR

    Valid point, with Guts, Machamp takes on Rotom really well and you get more power, so definitely the better choice.

    OK, I guess the bluff could come in handy but you do have Recover with LO though. However, with Expert Belt I suggest you run Dragon Pulse/Surf/Grass Knot/HP Fire. Latias is fast enough to do her job before succumbing to entry hazards/SS and this gives her excellent coverage. HP Fire still owns Scizor obviously and even w/o LO, Surf + Grass Knot 2HKO most Tar and you get to hit Heatran as well.

    Good lead Swampert, by the way.

    Swampert isn't supposed to counter Celebi. It's just supposed to survive a GK and OHKO back with Mirror Coat.

    Faster EQ from Swampert means very little. Most CB Tyranitar outrun you anyway and Blissey is outrun anyway (Swampert has 60 base speed while Blissey has only 55, and in case you're wondering, it always runs 0 speed EVs)
  15. Blackace

    Blackace ♥ Final Fantasy XIII

    Ok my justifications.

    Kind of got a headache and kind of tired but I try and justify WHY I suggested those.

    Firstly Eving Swampert to take a Grass Knot is pointless. You not countering it but more than often Swampert will have taken a hit from Stealth Rock or something. Therefore I find it a lot more useful to strip Swampert of the Special Defense Evs and place in in Defense.

    I also recommended Earthquake because it gets STABBed and because only 2 leads out of the ten most popular were special and one of them was Roserade. The other was Heatran meaning you got Earthquake it and activate Shuca Berry and Earthquake it again or set up Stealth Rocks on the switch. Also running Earthquake means you get STABBed and are not as Taunt weak.

    248 Hp 4 Speed 244 Defence. Why I put Speed is because losing one Ev point to outspeed other Swampert leads is useful. However this point is really just if you decide to run Earthquake if not just ignore this. Note if you run 16 Evs in Speed you can outspeed Choice Band Tyranitar just some handy information.

    You guys don't know how many times 20 Speed in Scizor has meant my Scizor gets to outspeed and take out a weakened Scizor with Superpower. Seriously losing a like 4 Attack points is way worth it. Whatever if you don't like it cool.
    @ Latias thing. Hahahahahah. LOL Got to tattoo Latias isn't part flying on my face or something. Impossible to remember. Anyway.

    @ The Gengar/ Heatran thing. Yer a lot of things are built to outspeed Heatran however. Heatran means you can absorb Fire Blast coming towards Metagross and Scizor and also you get a lot stronger Explosion. Also just looking back those things that are meant to outspeed Heatran are obviously Choice Scarfed so really its kind of obvious when someone switches in something like Latias into a Heatran locked into Hidden Power or Dragon Pulse. You get me? So you can easily predict around them. Also Heatran means it can take U-Turns for your team a lot better. EDIT : Looking back I noticed switching to Heatran loses your double ground immunity. You still got Latias and Swampert (If it survives) however double ground immunity is always nice so your choice really.

    At Machamp thing sorry typo you don't have Rest. Anyway running Choice Band with Sleep Talk I still think is pointless. Breloom comes in to Spore it outspeeds and since you probably be locked into Dynamic Punch or Payback it means you got to switch out giving the opponent a free turn of set up. So I would either run a standard Choice Band Machamp or the standard Rest Talk Machamp.

    I was talking about Flame Orb as the item. (Also isn't Toxic Orb better? As 3 turns of Toxic Orb = 3 turns of Flame Orb and anything under 3 turns Flame Orb does more damage. I doubt Machamp will stay in three turns in a row.) I was also talking to CreepacisT sorry should make it more clear.

    @ Salamence thing - Completely forgot Explosion. Haha seems like Salamence isn't a threat. Also forgot Shadow Ball does a nice 50%.

    He are my justification I think I included everything?



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