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Thoughts on Ash having finally won a Pokemon League.

Discussion in 'Animé Spoilers' started by shoz999, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 Neutral force of Meh

    Funnily enough it also had no entry requirements (heck, even Red entered with 7 badges), as the badge->league system didn't get fully established until RS (and we didn't get to see it in practice until BW, leading to one of my favorite "scenes" in the Black vs Drayden fight)
    SerGoldenhandtheJust and shoz999 like this.
  2. shoz999

    shoz999 IT WAS ME! SETETH!

    Actually the Pokemon League back than in Pokemon Adventures had the option of two entry requirements. The main option obviously is to collect all eight gym badges and you can jump into the main Pokemon League tournament event. However there is a second option for those who are unable to obtain all eight Gym Badges. Instead of battling all eight Gym Leaders, you could take part in a long grueling preliminary tournament and if you succeed, you can enter the Pokemon League tournament this way. I think this is a pretty smart way of saying just how tough the Gym Leaders are while also addressing that they still need participants to actually fill up the main tourney event.
    mehmeh1 likes this.
  3. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 Neutral force of Meh

    I thought that was only in Johto (not that it really mattered there because we both know what happened) and they had dropped that afterwards
    shoz999 likes this.
  4. SatoSereFan224888

    SatoSereFan224888 Well-Known Member

    But maybe they might do something like Generations for Ash’s journey. The SwSh anime will focus on new heroes.
  5. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    How on Earth did you derive this?
  6. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    I never really felt that surprised or disappointed that Ash lost his first league. Yeah, I was sad for Ash. But he was always a rookie, and barely scraped by with a win in any of his matches. And Charizard was chronically unreliable. I don't think Ash really came that close to deserving the mantle of champion back then.

    But seeing him fail over and over again, never really coming significantly closer than he did against Harrison IMO. Kinda made me give up on the idea, I always felt that if Ash won a league it would be the end of the anime. Sun and Moon changed things enough that that might not be the case anymore. Its far less predictable than the last 4 leagues. But I hope this means that Ash's journey will fundamentally change in other ways.

    I really wish that the outcome that I'd been waiting for for so long had been achieved by a real improvement in Ash as a trainer. It should have come with Ash learning something new or developing into a better trainer. In reality there isn't much strategic difference between the lucarios battled to the way Ash takes on most of his tough battles. Just slamming his pokemon head on into every obstacle most of the time and pulling new moves out of nowhere.
  7. Dicklaycia

    Dicklaycia Objectively Better Than You

    I was a little shook upon reading the news. And it only took 22 long years. It’s historical, and the news is even reaching more mainstream news outlets.
    anjunajake, Sham and KenzeyEevee like this.
  8. J.Agera

    J.Agera We will be surpassing our dreams!

    Ash's voice actress pretty much confirmed that's not happening.

    Since people are talking about leagues, I might as well give my opinion no one asked for.
    1. Sinnoh League - Worst excuse to make him lose
    2. Kalos League - Buildup was way too much only to make him lose
    3. Johto League - should have won this one too
    4. Hoenn league - Neutral, I am OK with this loss
    5. Kanto - Justifiable as it was the first and Ash was a noob
    6. Alola League - Most episodes, Ash won, yet had some of the worst battles. Winning Dosen't really make this league any good.
    7. Unova League - Ash should have lost in top 8 but the way he lost was stupid
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  9. Sham

    Sham On the right road

    The fact this has reached Forbes, CNN and much more proves Sun and Moon is going to be one of the most remembered series ever.
  10. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    One thing if proven for sure, dog is mans best friend.

    Are you kidding, didn't ash actually tweeted worldwide, but CNN made one mistake they said ash just became a pokemon master which he haven't yet.
  11. TheNewGuy

    TheNewGuy Well-Known Member

    They would think fans are nitpicking, I imagine, as all fanbases are wont to do. R/anime represents a miniscule minority of people that have seen and engaged with this. The dissenters within that represent an even smaller minority.

    (I also didn't mean 'headline' like in a newspaper, more that it was the top story and most important part of this.)

    All you are pointing out here are reasons the league dissatisfied some fans. You have not done anything to change the fact that this is an official Pokemon league as recognised both in the show and outside of it by writers, creators and Pokemon's official Twitter account. As I said, it's a totally defensible position to argue that this league had problems and wasn't as good as the others. I get that. But it's never a defensible position to overplay that hand so much that you deny reality and deny absolute, outright facts.

    There's no "hardline narrative". It's not your show to just go around deciding what is or isn't a Pokemon league. I will now also push the "hardline narrative" that Pikachu is a grass type and fire type moves are strong against water Pokemon. Because apparently there are no absolute facts, no, only "hardline narrarives".

    Again, let's please agree on the facts if we are going to have a discussion. Simple yes or no question with no caveats - was this an official Pokemon league? Yes or no? This conversation simply cannot continue as long as reality continues to be denied. I won't engage with it further.

    Lastly, if you believe what I'm saying is bait why on earth did you deliberately choose to take it? Don't assassinate my character and accuse me of trying to bait you, to troll and antagonize you, especially if you quite clearly don't believe it (because if you really thought it was "bait" then you surely wouldn't have responded and fallen for the "bait". Either I successfully trolled you or you're making it up, no middle ground).
  12. TheNewGuy

    TheNewGuy Well-Known Member

    Also stop screaming about context. Context doesn't change facts. 2+2 is not suddenly 5 if you ask it on the moon.
  13. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    Leagues have always been in a variety and there is no certainty if you're going to get an easy League or a hard League. Case in point, the Indigo League. Based on what Pokémon was used and NOT used in that first League, I can safely say that any post-Kanto (well maybe except Unova) Ash can win that League without even breaking a sweat. Many participants, like Ritchie, used unevolved Pokémon for the majority of their team, though admittedly some were trained to hone in their regular skills like Bellsprout. In contrast, the Kalos League and Sinnoh League are much, much more difficult to compete because there are a lot of people who bring in their best and most overpowered Pokémon to the field. Why else would Ash bring his reserves for Sinnoh if he didn't realize how much more difficult this League would be. And the fact that Ash was able to make it up all the way to the Kalos League finals with just his regional team and no reserves showcases his growth as a trainer since DP.

    Like a gamer who picked up New Super Mario Bros U after going through the most difficult and insane Mario courses on Super Mario Maker, Ash was more than ready to handle the Alola League even with a brand new team. Everything is natural to him, from the battling to the victories to even the possibility of losing. Alola League may be an easier League than he's normally used to, but I wonder how old rookie Kanto Ash would fare in that tournament. Would he have as much success here or would he not even make it to the Top 8? It's one of those journey experience where you never realize how far you have gone until you look back. And sometimes, looking back allows you to appreciate with what you have now.

    Indeed, the Leagues have always been put on a high pedestal, treated as if they were the end goal, the thing that makes you into a Pokémon Master. That's what CNN and other sites have parroted over and over a few days ago. Nevermind the fact that the very first Pokémon League was just a gathering of Pokémon trainers to test out their skills and worth as trainers. There was nothing about a reward for being the Pokémon Champion other than a trophy (and maybe the hopes of fighting the Elite Four). If Ash became a Pokémon Master, it would not be from a trophy of the League. It would be from learning about himself and his Pokémon. That was why I considering his mastery of Ash-Greninja in the Winding Woods to be the moment where he already won against Alain, no matter what the actual match outcome would be. The only thing a League victory would do is simply make it officially engraved.

    This is why I don't really care about this League not being as highly competitive or insanely hard as the Kalos or Sinnoh League. All of them are just places for Ash to show his worth as a trainer. The chances of him winning out of the hundreds of contestants are always slim. And we should not forget that other trainers have worked hard for the League as well. We can't see them as all losers, can we?

    The only reason why I wanted Ash to win was to prove everyone wrong; about the League, about Ash, about Red, and about the show. Ash is never a loser; he's a fighter like Red. Red is not a Pokémon Master despite winning a Pokémon League; he is still just a Pokémon Trainer like Ash. And the show doesn't end with Ash winning the League; it only ends when Ash has mastered virtually everything there is to Pokémon (and I do mean everything).
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  14. Leonhart

    Leonhart Banned

    One of those outlets [I think it was CNN, but I can't remember for sure] said that Satoshi was now a Pokemon Master because of his win, which irks me since that isn't the case and now that misinformation will spread for years.
    04n70n10 and Shayminslicker like this.
  15. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    It's CNN and I'm curious as to how widespread this misconception is among the large Pokémon fandom.
    LilligantLewis, CMButch and Redstar45 like this.
  16. Doppelgänger

    Doppelgänger Superancient Member

    I'm fine with major news outlets getting it wrong like that.

    It conveys the anguish fans have felt to the casual readers better than trying to explain the context.

    "Ash is a Pokemon Master, but his journey isn't over" is on the level of Santa Claus to me.
    LilligantLewis and KenzeyEevee like this.
  17. Leonhart

    Leonhart Banned

    But from my viewpoint, their "Ash Ketchum has finally become a Pokemon Master" clickbait title is problematic because it's an outright lie. I'll admit that I have somewhat selfish reasons for finding a fault with their statement however, because it's going to be irritating having to explain to people that Satoshi isn't really a Pokemon Master yet in future discussions both here and on the social media sites that I visit. None of that would be necessary if outlets like CNN hadn't twisted things in the first place and stuck to reporting facts, not exaggerations.
    Shadao, J.Agera and Redstar45 like this.
  18. Doppelgänger

    Doppelgänger Superancient Member

    Rabid Pokemon fans are stupid, they're stubborn, and they have overactive imaginations. This isn't new.

    It's been 20 odd years and up until Sunday, people still thought Ash was the worst trainer in the anime. If it takes a league win to change that narrative, fine. If you have to use the term "Pokemon Master", whatever. We're still going to be debating these crazy fans who insist Noivern beat Zapdos up to kingdom come. The delusion is part of the territory.
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  19. CMButch

    CMButch Well-Known Member

    Who cares what those media outlets are spreading.They have right to believe what they want. We know it's not true.
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.
  20. IkeBayern

    IkeBayern Well-Known Member

    I’m happy that he won, I’ve said this a lotta times that him winning the Alola League isn’t as bad it looks because it was a “lousy” tournament with very low standards even though I enjoyed watching it..

    A trainer of Ash’s caliber should be winning the Alola League even with his current team, otherwise it would’ve looked bad if he lost to Hau, Guzma and even Gladion because we’ve seen him do well in harder leagues than this one against tougher opponents!

    Regardless of him winning the league, I am certain that Ash will still be the protagonist of the Pokémon anime next season.. The guy still has a long way to go and a lot of work to do, he’s even said that winning the league is just a step in the right direction..

    Remember guys, winning the Alola League doesn’t make you a Pokémon master and now that the “curse” is finally out of the way, we might be able to see Ash grow and develop his character tremendously

    Don’t you think it would’ve been huge news by now if Ash was getting cut off the show? Pokémon cares about their bottom line, Ash and Pikachu are their cash cows and synonymous with the show.. It’s probably too late to cut them

    The fact that they haven’t said anything gives me hope, his voice actor seems to be confident that his journey is still gonna continue even after becoming the champion!

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