• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Thoughts on Ash having finally won a Pokemon League.

Revolver Furious Dragon

Well-Known Member
It's not a part of the movie. Ash actually says it in the anime. Like I said, it was in the last episode of the Sinnoh series before he goes to Unova.

No he doesnt. It's dub only so it doesn't count. The original Japanese states it's only one step to becoming a pokemon master
 

TTNH03

Pokemon Researcher
No he doesnt. It's dub only so it doesn't count. The original Japanese states it's only one step to becoming a pokemon master
That wasn't my point.
My claim was that Ash actually says that becoming a Champion Master leads to becoming a Pokemon Master and you reaffirm it by you mentioning the Japanese version. The meaning may have been lost in English but the context is still there.

That said, I was wrong when I claimed that only beating Champions will make him a Pokemon Master since it's only a step towards it.
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
I’d consider Cynthia to be a Pokémon master. And I guess by that I mean a champion, a world renowned trainer, having strong Pokémon and finally being a good strategist. All which Cynthia meets. She’s the closest thing I can imagine to being a master.
 
D

Deleted member 384931

Guest
I’d consider Cynthia to be a Pokémon master. And I guess by that I mean a champion, a world renowned trainer, having strong Pokémon and finally being a good strategist. All which Cynthia meets. She’s the closest thing I can imagine to being a master.
So Ash is pokemon master too lol?
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Sham said:
I’d consider Cynthia to be a Pokémon master. And I guess by that I mean a champion, a world renowned trainer, having strong Pokémon and finally being a good strategist. All which Cynthia meets. She’s the closest thing I can imagine to being a master.

She's probably the closest thing to a Pokemon Master, but since she was never actually called one [I think she was called a Champion Master once, but that's not the same thing] then I'm not going to give her the honor of being the anime's sole Pokemon Master. In truth, I've always found Shirona to be overrated in both the anime and the games.

As for Satoshi's journey, I think that him winning the Alola League is a step in the right direction, but that he'll need to win several more Leagues and be a consistent battler to even come close to achieving his dream of becoming a Pokemon Master.
 
Last edited:

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
Actually, I’ve seen people inform these people of what actually went on in this league and yeah, they’re pretty miffed and annoyed that this is how he won. Ignorance is a bliss.

But those problems didn’t exist in previous leagues. This makes this league a different type of league wholly different from the past ones. This is also objective fact, that this league is not like the others. Hence, this makes this league win different.

Nice false dichotomy. I’ll answer it anyway, was this a official Pokémon league? Yes. Is it like the other leagues? No. In relation to past leagues, the Alola League is an entirely different type of league, separate from the leagues of old. Meaning this win has different value, and I think the value is much lesser.

I don’t even know what you’re talking about in this last paragraph.

I don't have time for "actually"s followed by anecdotal evidence. Show me something real, and show that it is a significant number of people, or this is meaningless. 4 or 5 people on r/anime is false consensus. That just means there's a few people who agree with you - it does nothing to prove your position, which is essentially "if they only knew how crappy this league REALLY was, they'd hate that Ash won here! If everybody was fully informed, with all the precious context in the world, then they'd agree with me!"


OK good - we have agreed on the fact that this is an official Pokemon league. Will you now please retract these arguments and accept them for what they are - grounded in an objective falsehood?
It not being a league is a defensible position in the show itself.
I mean, 30% of people on this forum itself don’t even consider this tournament to be a league. It’s definitely not even close to just 95/5 from the reactions I’ve seen on reddit for example.


You've accepted now that whatever the sentiment might be behind it, this vote is irrelevant. You'll agree with that now, yes? I threw out a rough number to illustrate how insane it was to say that overall reaction to this was "mixed". To counter, you bought the results of a poll in which people essentially voted for "yes, 2+2=5" - something you now accept. Putting aside the inherent flaws of using that poll at all (of which there are many - 30% is still fairly small, it was asked on a forum comprised mostly of hardcore fans, the number of people voting overall is miniscule compared to the numbers of people that have seen and engaged with this on twitter, facebook, various unrelated forums and subreddits, comment sections of other websites, etc), you accept that the voters in this poll were objectively wrong, so using it at all is nonsensical.

No league is "like the others". Unova started with 1-on-1s, previous leagues had groups to qualify, Sinnoh was a straight knockout, etc. Every league has had differences. "Entirely separate" is also an outright lie. It is, as you have admitted, a Pokemon League so it cannot be, or all leagues are "entirely separate" to each other rendering the point moot anyway. You're also exaggerating how much the differences between the Alola League and the other ones actually matter to the casual viewer or the thousands of people who only engaged with this because they saw it on CNN.


Basically, your position cannot simultaneously be that "with context, half the people (or enough to reasonably call the reaction "mixed") that celebrate this would be saying it's actually bad", and also "the reaction has been mixed". They contradict each other, so you need to concede one of these two arguments:
I wonder how many people would think differently, if you know, they were given context?
On the Internet everywhere the reaction seemed to be mixed from what I've seen.


They can't co-exist.

As for the last paragraph:
https://forums.serebii.net/threads/...a-pokemon-league.670194/page-10#post-18845312

In this post you TWICE accused me of using "bait". Trying to use "bait" to antagonize people, trying to trick or troll you. I ask again - why on earth would you be responding to my posts if they were "bait"? You surely wouldn't be so dumb as to seriously respond multiple times to "bait" posts while acknowledging that they are bait, that would be lunacy. So the only conclusion that can be drawn here is that it was character assassination. You wanted to undermine the credibility of me and my posts with an accusation you don't even believe. Very low tactic imo.
 

Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
I ask again - why on earth would you be responding to my posts if they were "bait"? You surely wouldn't be so dumb as to seriously respond multiple times to "bait" posts while acknowledging that they are bait, that would be lunacy.

That, my friend, is what we call "taking the bait". I have no horse in this race, I'm just pointing that out.
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
That, my friend, is what we call "taking the bait". I have no horse in this race, I'm just pointing that out.

Well yeah, people take bait on the internet all the time. But it's one thing to simply fall for the bait, it's quite another to acknowledge it's bait and then fall for it anyway.

I wasn't trying to "bait" anyone with my posts, just for the record, but it'd be insane to be all "Tom Hardy in Mad Max That's Bait gif" and STILL post a lengthy response. So the only real conclusion has to be that it wasn't a real accusation.
 
Last edited:

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Actually, they did mention what a Pokemon Master means.

I just watched the last episode of the Sinnoh Saga and Ash says:
"Someday, somehow, I'm going to win the Champion League and become Champion Master."
--Pikachu speaks--
"You're right and of course that means I'll finally become a Pokemon Master."

So basically it means beating the Elite 4 and the current Champion of the region. Also, this is based on Ash's interpretation on what a Pokemon Master is so it's not a general term.
My guess is if the next series is based on Ash going back to all regions then it'll probably be his journey on becoming the Champion Master AKA a Pokemon Master.
Cyinthia said that Ash and Paul will fight in Champion league, meaning there would be some kind of tournament before E4 and Champions. Also, how would they do that:Going back to other regions to become Pokemon Master? Main region is Galar. Rica said it's a long way of Ash becoming Pokemon Master.That kinda proves Galar is NOT final stop. We will see.
Ash is nowhere near Champion with this team. I made a VS match with Ash's current team vs Wulfric's team(gym + level) and mehmeh responded( which I agree) that Wulfic would beat Ash's SM team 3 on 5.

I also think Ash will lose to Kukui. But again, I feel Kukui would be like at least E4 level, pretty sure he'd get destroyed by Cynthia, Steven etc.
 

FlygontheRavager

#1 Pokémon Anime Fan!
I'm absolutely ecstatic! Honestly, I get (and somewhat agree with) why people say that Ash's win here is unsatisfying and that it should've been Sinnoh or Kalos, but after some of the stuff that's gone down these last few months (Pokemon and non-Pokemon related), seeing Ash finally win a League was exactly what I needed.

And whether or not this win was "satisfying" or not, no one can deny one thing: the Pokemon anime's rule book has been burned, and the door to endless possibilities has been opened (except going a series without seeing a Lucario, apparently, because Kukui got one out of nowhere). Now we can only lie in wait...and hope the writers properly capitalize on the opportunity they've created.
 

Remix2

Well-Known Member
as Happy as I am for ash finally winning a league, I wish the final were a lot better instead of it suffering form the same animation problems for the other battle this league(aka reused and stiff animation).
 

TTNH03

Pokemon Researcher
Cyinthia said that Ash and Paul will fight in Champion league, meaning there would be some kind of tournament before E4 and Champions. Also, how would they do that:Going back to other regions to become Pokemon Master? Main region is Galar. Rica said it's a long way of Ash becoming Pokemon Master.That kinda proves Galar is NOT final stop. We will see.
Ash is nowhere near Champion with this team. I made a VS match with Ash's current team vs Wulfric's team(gym + level) and mehmeh responded( which I agree) that Wulfic would beat Ash's SM team 3 on 5.

I also think Ash will lose to Kukui. But again, I feel Kukui would be like at least E4 level, pretty sure he'd get destroyed by Cynthia, Steven etc.
Good question.

Firstly, I would like to point out that this is all speculation since many of the rumours are saying that Ash is going back to all the regions. My guess was him battling the Elite 4 and Champion since that'll provide enough screentime for things. So if the whole series is 150 episodes (which equals to 3 years), This means that the Galar region will have most of the screentime. Remember the Kanto saga literally has around 80 episodes. The Galar region could be just that. The rest, assuming if Ash goes back to all the regions will be around 10 episodes. Battling the Elite 4 and Champion shouldn't take long and it can leave some nostalgia episodes too especially the one you mentioned with Paul (which I would like to see too). Plus Ash going back to the regions can help promote the remakes. Basically, what I'm saying is that it's doable to cram it all in even if my guess is wrong (which will be 100%, haha).

I agree that Galar is not the final stop but it could be for Ash if the writers decide to have another main character. If it does, then Ash might just be in the sidelines continuing his journey out of script but I doubt they'll be doing that to him anytime soon.

Ash's current team is not that great, I agree with that but remember the Sinnoh League? Ash can call back his strongest Pokemon just to try and battle against the Elite 4 unless he decides to restrict himself again which I can see against Paul, lol. I believe that Ash can win the league if he just uses his strongest Pokemon but who knows. Ash might just spend time grinding before he battles against them.

I know I'm really stretching things out there but yeah, that's how I would speculate if things were to happen this way. It is possible pull it off but we'll have to see what happens when they announce the next series.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Good question.

Firstly, I would like to point out that this is all speculation since many of the rumours are saying that Ash is going back to all the regions. My guess was him battling the Elite 4 and Champion since that'll provide enough screentime for things. So if the whole series is 150 episodes (which equals to 3 years), This means that the Galar region will have most of the screentime. Remember the Kanto saga literally has around 80 episodes. The Galar region could be just that. The rest, assuming if Ash goes back to all the regions will be around 10 episodes. Battling the Elite 4 and Champion shouldn't take long and it can leave some nostalgia episodes too especially the one you mentioned with Paul (which I would like to see too). Plus Ash going back to the regions can help promote the remakes. Basically, what I'm saying is that it's doable to cram it all in even if my guess is wrong (which will be 100%, haha).

I agree that Galar is not the final stop but it could be for Ash if the writers decide to have another main character. If it does, then Ash might just be in the sidelines continuing his journey out of script but I doubt they'll be doing that to him anytime soon.

Ash's current team is not that great, I agree with that but remember the Sinnoh League? Ash can call back his strongest Pokemon just to try and battle against the Elite 4 unless he decides to restrict himself again which I can see against Paul, lol. I believe that Ash can win the league if he just uses his strongest Pokemon but who knows. Ash might just spend time grinding before he battles against them.

I know I'm really stretching things out there but yeah, that's how I would speculate if things were to happen this way. It is possible pull it off but we'll have to see what happens when they announce the next series.

The only rumor I heard was Ash going back to old regions so he can be with companions like with Misty and Brock or that we would see other companions' journeys or that 7 MC will start journeys and Ash will be in Galar. I never heard anything else regarding E4 and Champion. I don't see how Ash will battle E4 and Champion if he doesn't enter Kanto league again or that Champion tournament with other winners in Kanto. Sure he can he unofficial match with them, but I am sure he must battle in the league and I don't see 8 leagues happening.
There won't be any remakes except DP. Maybe even Johto Go and that's it.

Show will end when Ash becomes PM, it's already established. Since, show will continue as long as they make money, Ash will be here/won't be PM. Anime is just big promotion for games.If they make money they will continue making it. Look at MCU, same thing.We have come to era where money controls anything and not quality.

I was thinking Ash's current team vs Kukui, not others. I don't see Ash using reserves against Kukui, I can only see Poipole/Naganadel returning. When it comes to other leagues seeing how this is third league where Ash didn't use reserves, I think Ash won't use them, even though I want some of Unova Pokemon to evolve like Palpitioad or Emboar.
 

MidnightMelody

Hopeful for Gen 8
It is funny:Ash wins a league after 20 years and aren't satisfied with it.
I mean it was an open league with no full battles so people wanting more is understandable
Cyinthia said that Ash and Paul will fight in Champion league, meaning there would be some kind of tournament before E4 and Champions. Also, how would they do that:Going back to other regions to become Pokemon Master? Main region is Galar. Rica said it's a long way of Ash becoming Pokemon Master.That kinda proves Galar is NOT final stop. We will see.
Ash is nowhere near Champion with this team. I made a VS match with Ash's current team vs Wulfric's team(gym + level) and mehmeh responded( which I agree) that Wulfic would beat Ash's SM team 3 on 5.

I also think Ash will lose to Kukui. But again, I feel Kukui would be like at least E4 level, pretty sure he'd get destroyed by Cynthia, Steven etc.

I thought the champion league WAS E4 and champion

Though I guess every region can be different which Alola proves. I'm actually curious if the Alola league will end up making people earn the right to enter moving on after this first one
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Remix2 said:
as Happy as I am for ash finally winning a league, I wish the final were a lot better instead of it suffering form the same animation problems for the other battle this league(aka reused and stiff animation).

I could tolerate the animation, I just wish that it had been a full match with six Pokemon on each side instead of just a three on three. Gladio could've easily been given a couple more Pokemon and Satoshi could've called over one of his stored Pokemon to use as his sixth team member.
 
Last edited:
My vision of a good way for Ash to win a league will never happen probably, as I actually love battles that are tactic-driven and drags on instead of flashy, in your face power battle.
I prefer tactic-driven battles aswell, to me it seems like the most realistic way Ash can defeat veterans with years of experience over him.

Though people seems to love OP Ash beating older, experienced trainers using his rookie team + Pikachu and call it a good writing so it's okay I guess...
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
To be fair Ash vs Gladion was still somewhat tactic heavy. Ash only really spammed with Melmetal and while Gladion spammed Stone Edge it was more as a blockade than his proper offence, a combo. Even the Z Move was more cleverly done than usual.
Plus, Ash turned Gladion's Counter spam against him at the end by keeping HIS Counter a complete secret.
 
Top