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Thoughts on Ash having finally won a Pokemon League.

It would literally be irrelevant if he did that anyway. Ash won the League, it's in the books, nothing can change it now.
Except.

You know.

Losing the title to Kukui.

Which is a thing in the games (though you always keep the title).

Which no other region does.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Except.

You know.

Losing the title to Kukui.

Which is a thing in the games (though you always keep the title).

Which no other region does.
That's an exhibition match. The League is over. The Champion isn't expected to win literally every battle they're in, only the tournament ones.
 
That's an exhibition match. The League is over. The Champion isn't expected to win literally every battle they're in, only the tournament ones.
Yeah.

But.

This is anime!Sun & Moon.

AKA the series that suddenly makes Rowlet's sleeping gag a serious thing at the worst of times.

Who's not to say Kukui didn't tell everyone the League Champion can lose their title when defeated in the exhibition match. Something as silly as this can happen.

I wouldn't put it past him to set it up like that because it guarantees him a free shot to take down the first sucker earning the title for the first time.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Golden Queen
Yeah.

But.

This is anime!Sun & Moon.

AKA the series that suddenly makes Rowlet's sleeping gag a serious thing at the worst of times.

Who's not to say Kukui didn't tell everyone the League Champion can lose their title when defeated in the exhibition match.

I wouldn't put it past him to set it up like that because it guarantees him a free shot to take down the first sucker earning the title for the first time.
Nah, I don't think Ash will lose the title if he loses this exhibition match.

Giving it to him when he doesn't have to I can see happening though.
 

Codebox

Member
This has certainly been a long time coming and to be honest I'm mixed on this, it was honestly disappointing how Ash was handed the win which felt like damage control, but on the other hand he actually won. The Pokemon Anime is a mess (still love it), even at its best it still does trip over itself with the most common flaw being forgetting basic typing (like how certain types can still hit types ineffective against them, even XY isn't saved from this), especially with its continuity and often disregard of its own rules. Even taking out game rules which don't apply it breaks the rules of the formula itself or uses heavy doses of plot armor in exchange for natural progression. This entire league gave Ash plot armor like a perfectly firm fresh diaper. Like how plot armor has worked against him in every league (I'm willing to give his Indigo league fail a pass simply because Ash was a rookie, didn't earn his wins properly and had a lot to learn before becoming champion, doesn't mean I excuse the execution, just the fact Ash was a beginner way in over his head) By Johto and onward though there was little excuse.

I even feel this will make any future anime series with Ash continuing as the protagonist worst considering the most common reason for him "losing" was that he would be unable to continue, him continuing to Galar would highlight his previous losses in a worse fashion simply because he would move on from Alola to Galar with an actual win.

Since the latter has been confirmed true that makes every loss from Johto-Kalos worse considering "marketing" and "Ash winning= the end" were reasons given, but if he can continue from Alola to Galar then his previous losses are now worse in perspective, especially when you factor in how much plot armor was used against Ashy Boy. Especially his loss on the Kalos league. Why is it only Alola he wins in this case? Was it because the rules didn't have the same styles or rulesets as other leagues? If so this was just planned to have Ash win, which is disappointing. Again happy Ash won, I just wish skill factored in and not given such restrictions just to give Ash plot armor against everyone not named Gladion.

Not only that the Alola League itself was so underwhelming and rushed, which is how I've felt about every league after Sinnoh honestly. Especially Ash vs Hau, I didn't think they could make a battle worse than the battle of Ash vs Elesa but Sun & Moon was like hold my Z crystal. Don't get me wrong I'm happy for Ash's league win, its about time they threw the poor guy a bone and the trending is certainly satisfying, but I feel this goes in the same category as Orange League and Battle Frontier, not that its irrelevant, but that this league didn't have the same standard rulesets other leagues (even Team Rocket were allowed here and were casted aside just as easily as normal) had, and Ash was given plot armor to win rather than skill of his own which is the complete opposite of other leagues, where the plot armor was used against him.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Since the latter has been confirmed true that makes every loss from Johto-Kalos worse considering "marketing" and "Ash winning= the end" were reasons given, but if he can continue from Alola to Galar then his previous losses are now worse in perspective, especially when you factor in how much plot armor was used against Ashy Boy. Especially his loss on the Kalos league. Why is it only Alola he wins in this case? Was it because the rules didn't have the same styles or rulesets as other leagues? If so this was just planned to have Ash win, which is disappointing. Again happy Ash won, I just wish skill factored in and not given such restrictions just to give Ash plot armor against everyone not named Gladion.

This was literally never a thing. It was some mistranslation that was more along the lines of "If he becomes a Pokemon Master, then the show will end".
 

mobius34

Active Member
Given how easily his win is being glossed over just to keep traveling, it really gets you they couldn't have this happen years ago in either Sinnoh or even Hoenn before that. Winning a league really doesn't seem like that big a deal.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Given how easily his win is being glossed over just to keep traveling, it really gets you they couldn't have this happen years ago in either Sinnoh or even Hoenn before that. Winning a league really doesn't seem like that big a deal.
They already did the whole gloss over thing with the Battle Frontier, so it's not exactly surprising.
 

mobius34

Active Member
They already did the whole gloss over thing with the Battle Frontier, so it's not exactly surprising.

Yeah, which blows my mind he couldn't win a league earlier. Winning the Hoenn league would have made sense as an invite for Ash to challenge the Battle Frontier, rather than the Scott character just randomly coming across Ash and telling him to do it.
 

Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
It was a bigger deal in the OS era where it was THE tournament. Ash went four rounds and didn't even make the quarterfinals. Now there's a Champion League, the Battle Frontiers and the Pokemon World Tournament. At least in the DP era where the league started to lose prestiege, someone like Tobias still wanted to compete in it.
BW+ the league hardly felt like the climactic event it was in the past. Alain showing indifference toward it before and after winning is insulting. Ash losing became a running gag with the old writers like how Leomon's death is treated in Digimon. The utter contempt for the viewers was as clear as day.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
That Kalos League trophy is probably gathering dust in Alan's closet. Still better than Unova where the dude who one wasn't even a dedicated trainer but a rescue worker who just wanted to train his team. Now with Alola anyone could get in so it really has been a tough decade for League tournaments LOL
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
Well last two league winners were not even proper trainers who had any such goal of becoming strongest trainer, virgil was pokemon rescue worker whereas alain was assistant of sycamore whose goal was to research ME energy and had nothing to do with winning a league. Can't say anything about tobias sine we hardly know about him, atleast after 3-4 leagues we have gotten proepr champion who would atleast progress one step ahead.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
One thought that sprung into mind also is that, as mentioned before, if the formula can be broken once, it can be broken again. This isn't just for Ash winning a league however, any protagonist maybe now stands a chance of achieving their goal. We could see one of the coordinators come back and win a Grand Festival for example.
 

IkeBayern

Well-Known Member
It was nice to see him finally break through but I think that the finals vs Gladion should’ve been a full battle to decide the tournament winner, imo they could’ve made it work..

The tournament itself (apart from the exhibition match) was kinda lackluster and it diminishes the victory a bit considering the fact that nobody was really celebrating it that much..

For Ash’s story to come full circle, he’s gonna have to win the Indigo League and become champion of Kanto just like Red did in the games.. Charizard and his other original Pokémon deserve to have their moment..
 

Revolver Furious Dragon

Well-Known Member
It's a shame his win has been ruined by what, in my opinion, has been such a lackluster final battle in ash Vs kukui.

Hating this right takes something away from his win for me
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
This isn’t the first time he won a league in the first place. It’s that no one cares about this one compared to the others which were more organized in my opinion. The Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and the others felt more better to have got those wins.
Of course they were more organized. They weren't the dang first League those regions had had. Except everyone in universe cares about this League because the MR is a big part of it.
 
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