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Thoughts on Ash having finally won a Pokemon League.

Discussion in 'Animé Spoilers' started by shoz999, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. game3524

    game3524 Well-Known Member

    BTW, speaking of leagues. Ash really needs to have another night battle like he did against Ritchie. Made the match feel a lot bigger as if it was on primetime television.
  2. shoz999

    shoz999 IT WAS ME! SETETH!

    On a blimp.
    mehmeh1 and TheWanderingMist like this.
  3. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!


    It would have been much better if it was a surprise.

    Otherwise, glad it happened in the SM anime. Glad it was the Alola league since it is one of my favorite league arcs. Ash earned it and today is still one of celebrating.
  4. TheNewGuy

    TheNewGuy Well-Known Member

    It is excellent, though slightly tempered by what might have been. I'm like, 90% happy, I guess.

    Firstly, I looked back at the posts I made after he lost to Alain and I was so angry, livid about what happened, and this has gone some way to solving that. Ash winning XY would have been better than this - the final battle there was bigger, glossier, had that brain-melting XY animation and the final battle just felt so big. It felt like Ash at the very peak of his powers with a high-powered team (possibly the best or coolest one he could have assembled using Gen 6 Pokemon, they really nailed the selection of his team in that saga) and the final battle saw Pikachu beat TWO pseudo-legendaries in addition to a bunch of other quality battles between his other members. Top that off with Greninja beating that god-tier Mega Charizard and it would have been fantastic. Even him winning this league hasn't quite mended that wound, that horrific faux pas by the writers.

    Because of said faux pas, this time around I took notice when I saw he would make the finals, but only really got 100% invested in this when I saw that pic of him with the trophy. That really would have been an elaborate, torturous troll job but also one I wouldn't put past the writers after they deliberately teased us with XY, turned the entire BW saga into a gigantic waste of time by having him LITERALLY GO BACKWARDS (still unforgivable) and slapped us in the face with Tobias in DP. But they gave the consumer what they wanted this time, and the outrage after XY worked and was thus justified (not the death threats, etc, that is obviously absurd and over the top) because imo it forced their hand here.

    So I feel very satisfied as a consumer. Complaints work. If you shout loud enough, with enough righteous fury, writers/creators listen. So that's another point in this battle's favour from a more meta perspective. I really only wish Ash had won without the prior outrage. He ideally should have got to the finals in BW and lost there, then won in the XY final. Literally nothing has to change apart from winning the LITERAL SIX ON FIVE BATTLE that he lost in BW (seriously) and then winning a SF against whoever. Then XY can be identical, apart from Ash-Greninja beating Alain's Mega Charizard.

    So it's fantastic, and magnificent, and it feels like a justification of 22 years of the show's existence, but it does also feel like it was a league or two too late to be as good as it possibly could have been. Sun/Moon's inferior animation and it only being a 3-on-3 doesn't help with that, but it is what it is.

    I also feel some relief also because now that monkey is off the show's back, I feel as though it can now evolve. Whereas a new saga usually feels kind of melancholy to me (woo, small and unevolved Pokemon using scratch and tackle, what fun), this time I'm excited to see it go in a new direction.

    tl;dr - my feelings on this are complex. It's not unrestrained and unbridled joy because that XY wound irreparably damaged my relationship with this show's writers, so it feels more like a meta win for the fanbase because we had to ***** and moan about it first - as opposed to a win based on the writers making the right decision themselves. But it's still so, so great. Great with an asterisk, let's say.
  5. Sham

    Sham Feel better soon

    I think people are undermining the Alola league. At the end of the day if they wanted Ash to lose; he would of lost. All they had to do is spin the narrative in the favor of Hau, Guzma or Gladion and bam. The league being “weak” has nothing to do with his win being any less valid.
  6. Cradily17

    Cradily17 Well-Known Member

    When you think about it, the Kalos league was more underwhelming. Many of the potential battles that Ash would have had against other trainers were skipped over just, and everyone Ash fought was a pushover except Alain and Sawyer. Not to mention his team was dead weight against Alain and carried entirely by Pikachu. Meanwhile, every member of Ash's SM team got to play a role in contributing to Ash's Alola League victory. Greninja Deviantart for- uh, I mean Ash-Greninja, was hyped up so much only for it to lose in the battle that mattered most and then be left behind.
  7. TheNewGuy

    TheNewGuy Well-Known Member

    Ash not having a full team really doesn't help. It also doesn't help when you directly compare it to XY, which was just three short years ago, with its multiple 6-on-6 battles, Mega Evolutions, and Pokemon that had clearly been established as among the strongest Ash had ever owned and ever competed against.

    I agree it absolutely does not invalidate the win itself, but this league vs. XY (or even DP, to be honest) is not a super favourable comparison.
  8. Mr.Munchlax

    Mr.Munchlax Thunder Trainer

    I'd say that Pikachu, Greninja, & occasionally Hawlucha did most of the work in the Kalos league than Ash's other pokémon

    From what I remember when reading the threads while XY was currently airing, the only pokémon on Ash's team that everyone considered to be strong were Goodra & Greninja. Most people often considered Hawlucha, Talonflame, & Noivern either weak or mediocre at best due to their constant losses or their lack of moves.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  9. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist Kanae, Keeper of the Gates Emblazoned

    Yeah, but it's also the first League. It's not like every other region started out with giant tournaments either. I mean, the League that felt biggest was Kanto. They had the whole Olympics theme going on and everything.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  10. shoz999

    shoz999 IT WAS ME! SETETH!

    I think it's a smart move to skip over the majority of the boring trainer battles in favor of the important ones that fans wanted to see. It's one of the major key reasons why fans love the DP's take on the Pokemon League as well and why I think the Hoenn league was so boring.
    Shadao, RLC, SH65 and 2 others like this.
  11. TheNewGuy

    TheNewGuy Well-Known Member

    [QUOTE="Cradily17, post: 18844437, member: 321383]Many of the potential battles that Ash would have had against other trainers were skipped over just, and everyone Ash fought was a pushover except Alain and Sawyer.[/QUOTE]

    This was a good thing, though. Ash was presented as being a cut above everybody else and they didn't mess around with that by contriving close battles that didn't need to be close.

    I likened the Kalos league to the end of The Dark Knight Rises. Batman and Bane are fighting through the crowd, Bane casually destroying policemen while Batman casually destroys Bane's minions, until they eventually end up on a collision course. That was Ash and Alain in Kalos. And that was refreshing to see. No need to create drama. Make Ash look damn good, make him look like every inch a credible threat to Alain and his Megazard (which had been established in previous episodes as insanely strong).
    RLC, SH65, Redstar45 and 1 other person like this.
  12. Redstar45


    it is was overtop league
  13. Power Up

    Power Up ...

    I for one would take those skipped league battles for a narrative reason over the multitude of mediocre 1v1s this league had as well as the showcase of irrelevant side characters for no apparent reason, especially since this would end up being an eventual Ash win

    These pushovers actually you know, won gym badges and got past the entry barriers?

    In the Kalos League final

    - Hawlucha won
    - Talonflame tied
    - Pikachu won 2x
    - Ash-Greninja won

    The only two Pokémon who only lost in the battle against Alain were Goodra and Noivern.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
    J.Agera, RLC, SH65 and 1 other person like this.
  14. landipan

    landipan Well-Known Member

    I'm happy Ash won. Could it have been bigger, more dramatic, or more emotional? Yes, but what can you do, this is how the writers chose to do it, and I'll accept it and be happy that Ash finally won a league (even if it was a newborn one...)
  15. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist Kanae, Keeper of the Gates Emblazoned

    The classmates aren't side characters, neither are TRio. Hau and Gladion are rivals. The only real side characters in the League after the first round were Acerola, Samson, and Mina.
  16. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    SM has this weird succinctness about breaking loads of formulas. I mean it's done well enough the catharsis is still there, but after FIVE SERIES of being unwilling to break these taboos, you'd think there'd be more fanfare, especially after XY right before it built itself up so epically to ultimately not being able to defy much of any status quo at all.

    I kinda like the humbleness of SM's handling in places, they really weren't in-your-face with the handling of Ash getting a mythical or Lycanroc ultimately being his winning Pokemon, they're all just part of the team and all the more likeable for it, hell let's give some other characters these game changers and act like it's no big deal as well? Why not? I do agree however that I think there should have been more setup to this, like more links to continuity and how long Ash has been doing this (though in fairness that makes several leagues beforehand unfitting as well).

    The Alola League was an odd choice given it was as much about the journey of every other companion taking part as it was Ash's. I think it might have worked if they'd got to play on that succinctness and have the win a completely unexpected twist at the end due to the lack of fanfare, but alas a little cosplaying side show spoiled the whole thing.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  17. Almighty Zard

    Almighty Zard He has returned.

    I know a lot of people out there are expecting Ash to leave now, feeling that because he won a league his journey should be over.

    As much as I want him to be replaced, now doesn't feel like that time for me.

    he may have won, but I don't feel satisfied with the win, I get that this league can be "excused" because it was the first one, but it was lacking one thing, that most of the previous leagues had.

    Intensity, sure we may have gotten some here and there during this, but not enough for it to be fulfilling, and no winning and losing doesn't detract from that factor.

    Charizard vs Blaziken
    Ash vs Paul
    Ash-Greninja vs Mega Sceptile as examples.

    Those fights were all intensive, win or lose they drew me in, I want Ash to win a league that is filled with fights of that caliber, and then I will be satisfied enough for him to go. (well deal with TR as well.)
    maartjeverhoef, J.Agera and Redstar45 like this.
  18. Litleonid

    Litleonid Well-Known Member

    Personally, I think he should have won Kalos before Alola, but Ash deserves this! I'm happy for him!
  19. Ignition

    Ignition Incineroar wins yet again (proud of my son)

    I posted my thoughts in the episode review thread but to sum it up, I’m so happy. Could it have been better? Of course. But I’m still happy the status quo has broken
  20. Revolver Furious Dragon

    Revolver Furious Dragon Well-Known Member

    It came to late as far as I'm concerned. The league should of been sooner so they could of explored the concept more before ash leaves for galar.

    They could of done a lot with the idea of ash as league champion interacting with the people of alola but it's to late now
    Redstar45 likes this.

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