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Thoughts on Ash having finally won a Pokemon League.

Discussion in 'Animé Spoilers' started by shoz999, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. Xuxuba

    Xuxuba Well-Known Member

    Sorry, can't say i was that invested in Gladion and Ash's rivalry. Sure they seem to have a good friendship. But i don't think Gladion is a great strategist like Paul or Conway neither that he is a fast learner like Sawyer, i don't think his interactions with Ash are as entertaining as Gary's and i don't think he is as powerful as Alain.

    I think he is quite average overall.
     
    J.Agera and KenzeyEevee like this.
  2. J.Agera

    J.Agera I am 10 Billion Percent Sure

    Gladion is the peak of mediocrity for a rival imo.
    Just an Alain wannabe but a little edgier.
     
    AuraChannelerChris and Xuxuba like this.
  3. Dragalge

    Dragalge Naganadel

    I mean...why are you comparing Gladion (or theoretically any rival) to Alain in power when it’s pretty obvious lol.

    In terms of being the final opponent of Ash however, I’m more invested in Gladion since they encountered each other more times, have worked together more, etc then Alain. Which is why I wished Sawyer was dream crusher instead of Alain since I was better invested in that nerd despite him being rushed!
     
  4. J.Agera

    J.Agera I am 10 Billion Percent Sure

    Alain's rivalry with Ash was about Power play and their rivalry's true conclusion was the Team Flare arc and not the league, and Gladion has almost the exact same personality as Alain and it just can't be unseen how similar he is atleast imo. Pretty fair to compare him.
     
    Xuxuba likes this.
  5. KHWoman

    KHWoman Active Member

    Mixed feelings too.
    Happy he finally won one.
    Sad it wasn't the Kalos one he won.

    Like many others, I really LOVED XY and don't like at all the direction the series took with SM. I stopped watching SM after 2 months. Too much comedy, way too childish, especially in comparison to XY just before, didn't like that they were so many sidekicks.
    I only caught up by reading summaries in July, when the League started. Reading that battles were 1vs1 and 2vs2 was kind of... a letdown

    So yeah... cool that he won, was fun to see he himself was surprised about it, cool if it allows for more development for him in Galar...
    But he deserved it so much more in Kalos x) a real league, a solid team, such a cool/badass/well developed A-Greninja, nices rivalries with both Sawyer and Alain, batlles that were, visually and tactically, 100 times better that this Gladion match.

    Meh. I really don't know what we can expect of Galar.
     
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  6. Xuxuba

    Xuxuba Well-Known Member

    That is one thing i liked about Alain though. We first got to know him as an individual then later as Ash's rival. It made him less one-dimensional in my opinion.

    Not saying i dislike characters that appear as rivals from the get-go though. I just thought it was a nice change of pace.

    I do agree that interacting with Ash sooner might benefit some rivals. Guzma is a perfect example in my opinion. Heck, he might have been the best rival in the SM series if only he appeared more often from the get-go. His training methods and behaviour conflicted with Ash's, just like Paul, and he felt like such a threat when he first appeared. Plus, he also displayed some development. Unfortunately, unlike Alain, he didn't get his own mini series, so they had to dump his entire backstory in just a couple of episodes, which interrupted his final battle against Ash too much.
     
    J.Agera likes this.
  7. Blue Saturday

    Blue Saturday too fly

    Exactly, Gladion and Satoshi actually have a dynamic and care about one another and their history and their Pokemon have a dynamic whereas they forced Alan in as a rival at the last minute and gave him a full team out of know where. He suddenly became focused on the league and less on saving Manon and her Hari-san. Plus Alan didn’t even care about the league, learned about it at the least minute, somehow swept eight gym leaders in a few episodes and went on to win the league despite it not even being an aspiration of his. Rivalries are more than just raw power but also dynamics, helping each character grow, supporting one another, Pokemon relationships. Alan was just power to be overcome by Satoshi and nothing more.

    Keep in mind, I’m an Alan fan I just vehemently dislike what the XYZ anime did to his agency, he came in the series and started kissing Satoshi’s butt like every other character. Literally said he was “obsessed” with him. S&M wins in that regard because it respected and held true to the fidelity of Gladion’s role and character.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  8. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "What are yeh looking at. Gimme my booty back."

    Oh, please. Gladion is not even half as edgy as Alain was. Alain actively avoided hanging out with others unless they pleased his battle maniac side (Ash, of course), and yet somehow he ended up being Mairin's knight or some crap despite not being that close to her.
     
  9. Sham

    Sham Feel better soon

    They actually toned down Gladion’s edginess and he’s way less mean and sassy in the anime compared to the games. Anyway he’s the best rival of the series, that’s all. Also I’m sorry but Gladion is better than Alain for the simple fact is that although both were inspired by Ash to compete in the league, Gladion at least came to this revelation in the middle of the series and actively strived to complete in Island challenges. Narratively Alain competing in the league was out of the realm of reality that he completed 8 badges in a quarter of the time it took Ash; flying Charizard or not.
     
  10. Xuxuba

    Xuxuba Well-Known Member

    Alain's goal was to become stronger in order to protect Mairin, Chespin and Sycamore. He saw the League as a way to obtain that strenght and he went after it. Since he had a fast way of traveling thanks to his connections, he was able to collect his badges far quicker, unlike Ash who had to travel the entire region by walking (and honestly i don't think he would do it any other way, because he likes to meet new people and pokémon in the way). Most of the time Ash spends in the series is walking towards the Gym's town instead of actually fighting for the badge, so it really isn't that absurd for Alain to get in those places faster with a helicopter, especially for a series where animals are magical creatures lmao
     
  11. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    The thing was the whole Kalos league loss was meant to be 'poetic'. You could kinda tell from the moment Alain and the Flare arc was build up to occur straight after that Ash was going to end up the moral victor and Alain's trophy would be rendered shallow over his misguidedness.

    I admit maybe that premise might have worked better for SM, especially due to setting him up as an underdog more and Gladion's ties with the bad guys in the games, but they went with that direction in XY and it was obvious what result would give the narrative more fluidity, even if the writers made the mistake of hyping the opposite outcome excessively.
     
  12. AuraChannelerChris

    AuraChannelerChris "What are yeh looking at. Gimme my booty back."

    The issue with that was that it was a stupid excuse he used to fight stronger opponents in the end.

    What really was the problem was his penchant to brush people off. It's what caused his problems in the first place. Brushed Sycamore off because a stranger in the forest told him to do it. Brushed Mairin off that led to her Axew, er, Chespin getting Mega Evolution/Zygarde Poisoning. He was already an absolute unit. He just needed to visit a psychiatrist or at least have the decency of eating together with Mairin. But apparently, his "lack" of strength was the issue.
     
  13. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army Staff Member Moderator

    Well at least we didn’t get a repeat of BW’s Cameron incident. That was the worst thing ever to happen in the anime.
     
  14. Kazuniya

    Kazuniya Well-Known Member

    My initial thoughts were: thank God this is finally over, maybe some people can finally move on now.

    My secondary thoughts: no way will some people recognize this as true League victory. For them nothing has changed.
     
  15. Lucario and Charizard are both hated and loved
     
  16. Blue Saturday

    Blue Saturday too fly

    In the Mega Evolution Specials.
    No. He went to the league because Satoshi brought it up, he was suppose to be focused on collecting Mega Evolution energy to help Hari-san out of his comatose state but went to enter the league when there was no guarantee he would get any ME energy there. On top of that he became "obsessed" with Satoshi in his own words and started focusing on him which was strange since Satoshi-Gekkouga didn't produce Mega Evolution energy. Being “obsessed” with Satoshi was a waste of time not to mention the time he wasted on the gym leaders without Mega Evolution as well so he got no energy from the either (that is if they used them).

    Gonna need a citation for all that because the show stated none of it or gave no answer for it. All we know is Alan had zero badges and no known Pokemon outside of Lizardon-X and suddenly had all eight in the span of four episodes and a full team at the league. This is a huge "WTF" because why didn't Alan use these Pokemon to help save Lizardon-X during the Kyogre/Groudon fiasco and thus Manon and her Hari-san had to come in and save his life. Did Flare give them to him? Did he catch them all? He he always had them? Why did we never see them? Why didn’t he use them during the crisis in Miare and fight against Lys compared to Satoshi who used his whole team?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  17. AznKei

    AznKei Rabi-Ribi's Cocoa is cute! ^_^

    Overrated would be a better word.
     
    Pokegirl Fan~ likes this.
  18. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ Tsundere Girl

    This and that loss to Ritchie as well...
     
  19. Xuxuba

    Xuxuba Well-Known Member

    That is the thing though. He thought what he lacked was strenght when in reality it was something else. He was unable to ask for help and wanted to do everything alone, he became so obsessed with power that he was blind to everything else that was happening around him, which is why he became such an easy target to Lysandre.
     
  20. Master Pikachu 11

    Master Pikachu 11 Well-Known Member

    When it happened, I could not contain my excitement as it has been a long time coming so to finally see him come out on top after all these years, helps put a end to the repetitive predictable outcome that we have experienced in past leagues. I personally felt that Ash vs Gladion was a better battle then Ash vs Alain and not just because Ash came out on top but because Lycanroc vs Lycanroc felt like more of a hard fought battle. Both of those Pokemon fought with a lot of energy and passion, it was also better then Greninja vs MCX because there was no gimmicks it was just a pure battle of strategy and determination. Sure Melmetal did bad but it still has another battle to make up for it.
     
    SerGoldenhandtheJust likes this.

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