Sham
The Guardian of War
I mean this isn’t the first time he didn’t want to leave right away. He was conflicted about what to after the Unova Leage and decided randomly to continue traveling with Iris and Cilan.
-
Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.
However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.
We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure. -
Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
Thoughts on Ash having finally won a Pokemon League.
- Thread starter shoz999
- Start date
TheNewGuy
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say that. I didn't expect Ash to go from top 8 to winner. Would have been nice, and I WANTED it to happen, but I don't think it was a belief held by the majority.
CupidKirby
Well-Known Member
Unpopular opinion but: XY/Z was a fantastic series. Kalos League was horrible. Sun/Moon was a decent series. Alola League was good.
I know we all wanted Ash to win the Kalos league because XY/Z hyped him up as being such a competent trainer with a sakuga Greninja on one side and doe-eyed love interest Serena readily awaiting him to sweep her off her feet on the other but I personally prefer the storytelling behind the Alola league. I didn't like Sawyer or Alain as Ash's rivals. They were both established as such really late because the writers remembered that Ash was supposed to have a rival only after half the series was already over. Hence, a lot of their development in the rival role was rushed and peeved me off. That doesn't help considering almost all of Ash's battles in the league were skipped except for the ones against said Sawyer and Alain so those two characters were the only ones who got any focus. So essentially nothing about the league engaged me in any way past the lowest common denominator known as hype. Kalos League was a huge disappointment for me.
And yeah, I think the Sun/Moon anime could've done better with how they handled this league. But seeing moments like Lillie or Mallow or Lana who we've known since the beginning of the series get time to shine, Guzma's character arc, and that very satisfying Ash vs Kukui 6v6 bumps this league above Kalos for me. Once again, it's just my opinion and taste. I prefer good characters in a lighthearted setting over badly written characters in a serious/dark setting. Sure the 1v1 and 3v3's suck but it makes sense why the writers would want to do that so to allow the league to pace itself better from a narrative standpoint. You can't even say it's because they got lazy to write/animate battles because this league is way longer than any previous one before it and doesn't skip a single match. I want as many 6v6's as the next guy but with how much attention the writers put into each battle, that's only possible if we got two to three parters for each one which just isn't realistic. But of course this league has its flaws. I could've used for better buildup to the league from the beginning of the series, better utilization of emotion on Ash's part, and maybe stricter rules on who makes it to top 16 to name a few examples. In all honesty though, I'm satisfied with his champion title. Ash taking out Kukui to solidify that it wasn't a fluke helped his cause a lot.
Anyways, bottom line is that Ash should've won in Sinnoh. If I felt like embodying the salty XY/Z fandom for a second.
I know we all wanted Ash to win the Kalos league because XY/Z hyped him up as being such a competent trainer with a sakuga Greninja on one side and doe-eyed love interest Serena readily awaiting him to sweep her off her feet on the other but I personally prefer the storytelling behind the Alola league. I didn't like Sawyer or Alain as Ash's rivals. They were both established as such really late because the writers remembered that Ash was supposed to have a rival only after half the series was already over. Hence, a lot of their development in the rival role was rushed and peeved me off. That doesn't help considering almost all of Ash's battles in the league were skipped except for the ones against said Sawyer and Alain so those two characters were the only ones who got any focus. So essentially nothing about the league engaged me in any way past the lowest common denominator known as hype. Kalos League was a huge disappointment for me.
And yeah, I think the Sun/Moon anime could've done better with how they handled this league. But seeing moments like Lillie or Mallow or Lana who we've known since the beginning of the series get time to shine, Guzma's character arc, and that very satisfying Ash vs Kukui 6v6 bumps this league above Kalos for me. Once again, it's just my opinion and taste. I prefer good characters in a lighthearted setting over badly written characters in a serious/dark setting. Sure the 1v1 and 3v3's suck but it makes sense why the writers would want to do that so to allow the league to pace itself better from a narrative standpoint. You can't even say it's because they got lazy to write/animate battles because this league is way longer than any previous one before it and doesn't skip a single match. I want as many 6v6's as the next guy but with how much attention the writers put into each battle, that's only possible if we got two to three parters for each one which just isn't realistic. But of course this league has its flaws. I could've used for better buildup to the league from the beginning of the series, better utilization of emotion on Ash's part, and maybe stricter rules on who makes it to top 16 to name a few examples. In all honesty though, I'm satisfied with his champion title. Ash taking out Kukui to solidify that it wasn't a fluke helped his cause a lot.
Anyways, bottom line is that Ash should've won in Sinnoh. If I felt like embodying the salty XY/Z fandom for a second.
Last edited:
CupidKirby
Well-Known Member
I think some of the loudest people screaming on social media about how "Ash should've won in Kalos and married Serena" are newer to the Pokemon series and hence weren't around to experience when the Pokemon Company already pulled this on us back in Sinnoh and with Misty. Of course his climb to become Alola Champion could've been better. It's a tired complaint. I'd rather enjoy Ash's championship title in a decent league and see how he does next time than bring back that can of worms to soil my experience with Alola.
CupidKirby
Well-Known Member
If you mind me asking, why did you think Ash vs Kukui was lackluster? I thought it was the best battle in the entire Pokemon S/M anime. A huge portion of people who doubted if Ash deserved the Champion title have changed their minds after this battle since Ash defeated the in-game "champion" figure. Plus looking back at old posts theorizing that Ash would lose his title to Kukui immediately after getting it is funny now.
I just realized. What if Ash was given the Alolan Champion title because it's the only region where there's no real in-game non-MC champion? Maybe the games are looking to have Ash fill that spot. It'd never happen in a million years but one can be a bit delusional.
Last edited:
shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
Well, ****... that's the best argument I've ever heard for Ash's first league win. Seriously, no joke. I mean I like the SM series but to be honest, most of the arguments attempting to justify Ash's win are pretty lame. Your the first one I've heard to actually make any sense out of it. Well, there are probably others before but so far the first.
Revolver Furious Dragon
Well-Known Member
Oh ash Vs kukui was a great battle. Pikachu Vs tapu Koko was a great battle.
However mixing the two together made them both lackluster in my eyes. I hated the fact they did it that way and it just completely ruined the whole thing for me. The conclusion was so unsatisfactory in my eyes it spoilt the entire thing
Sham
The Guardian of War
I don’t know why but this has me in tears, I laughed way too hard at this.
Yeah, while him losing was annoying, most of us could see it coming a mile away, everything in the story pointed to it happening.
Even in Alola, when him winning got SPOILED, we didn't believe it until we saw the full episode.
CupidKirby
Well-Known Member
It's funny because it's true
I think it's impossible to go onto any decently viewed video on youtube about the Pokemon anime without seeing at least five people screaming about it. Someone could be theorizing on Ash's next region team and someone would reply with comments about what a good waifu Serena is and how Ash should've won in Kalos. I'm honestly kind of sick of hearing about it.It's a sad day when Ash losing in Kalos was less of a shock to us than Ash winning in Alola which was already spoiled beforehand. I was waiting for that moment when the trophy was handed to Gladion and he just let Ash hold it for that screenshot.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Oh, please. There would be more romance with Ash eating food for a day than being with Serena for 10 years, and we know how long time in the anime is.
The first alola league episode is airing in english, so Pokemon.com put up an article about all of ash's losses.
https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-...rnaments-in-pokemon-the-series-on-pokemon-tv/
It's cute how the english site isn't referencing the japanese version since it hasn't technically aired in the west, and its cool how they are rooting Ash on for the Alola league!
https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-...rnaments-in-pokemon-the-series-on-pokemon-tv/
It's cute how the english site isn't referencing the japanese version since it hasn't technically aired in the west, and its cool how they are rooting Ash on for the Alola league!
U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
Hurtful TPCi. Hurtful.
The Kanto Catastrophe
The Johto Jobber
The Hoenn Heartbreak
The Shame of Sinnoh
Underpowered in Unova
Crushed in Kalos
Wow, you would think the fandom would make up these names, not an official source of Pokemon information.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
I'm not watching a remembrance of my life being wasted on those losses one time per 3 years, but that is just sad from an official source.
...And Ash didn't job in Johto. He had a lot of battles there.
...And Ash didn't job in Johto. He had a lot of battles there.
Hurtful, but those adjectives really sum up what was going on in each league:
Catastrophe (Charizard just wouldn't battle!)
Heartbreak (Lost to a puss in boots meowth)
Shame (after a big victory with paul, 3 of ash's pkmn were easily ko'd in the next round)
Underpowered (a guy with only 5 pkmn in a full battle brings out a lucario to overpower ash)
Crushed (everyone, even the episode title creator, thought ash would win, but ash-greninja was crushed by blast burn!)
I don't really understand what "Job" means though!
Last edited:
LOL! Still hoping for some good TPCi dub songs during some battles!
I think this entire thing makes it pretty clear TPCi only unwillingly dubs the anime because it's an official product the powers that be have decided should have an English version, and that they do it as cheap and halfassed as they can get away with because they have absolutely zero respect for neither the show, its creative staff or its fans, viewing all dub fans as dumb moneybags willing to pay for trash. This is the kind of stuff other companies actually lose contracts over.
U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
I was more shocked that they not only wrote an article about his failures but also made a playlist on Pokemon TV (https://watch.pokemon.com/en-us/season.html?id=the-many-failures-of-ash-ketchum).